The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread

[Phish Tank]

86-72 seems like a throwback to the JVG Knick days....

[K_ick_God]

Frank is a good player to be, still, I think.

[remi_222]

It'll be hard to see him scoring a lot since France plays with a strong hierarchy! Ntilikina has a def mission which he absolutely completes game after game, but we'd like to see him penetrate more, and move off ball to create space and beneficiate for 3pt shots !
It's coming, slowly but surely but again Ntilikina has to be coached by someone who'll be willing to give him minuts as a defensive leader, then offensively he has to find his spot around players who are absolutely unselfish.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

86-72 seems like a throwback to the JVG Knick days....

40 minute games, bro

add another 20% to each score and you get 103-87

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

It'll be hard to see him scoring a lot since France plays with a strong hierarchy! Ntilikina has a def mission which he absolutely completes game after game, but we'd like to see him penetrate more, and move off ball to create space and beneficiate for 3pt shots !
It's coming, slowly but surely but again Ntilikina has to be coached by someone who'll be willing to give him minuts as a defensive leader, then offensively he has to find his spot around players who are absolutely unselfish.

You're surely watching more of this and in higher quality video than I am. However, it seems to me that the French coach is using these games to do two things.

The first is to get his key players attuned to playing with each other in various combinations. And I think those players are essentially Gobert-Batum-Fournier-Ntilikina-de Colo. Frank played, idk, 25 minutes on Thursday and 10 today. But that's irrelevant. Back-to-back-to-back games (with no tourney significance per se) should mean not playing your starters full minutes/game (in some of them at least).

The second is to try to figure out who else could be really useful and in combination with whom. And who will get cut. Who is going to get the 6th-9th man minutes? .. and which of the starters should they be playing with in order to maximize the team's effectiveness?

On this board people watch these games (or read the box scores) exclusively in terms of what Frank does (ie how much he scores). Obviously, that's a natural thing for Knicks fans to do, but a really dumb way of trying to understand the games.

[remi_222]

It'll be hard to see him scoring a lot since France plays with a strong hierarchy! Ntilikina has a def mission which he absolutely completes game after game, but we'd like to see him penetrate more, and move off ball to create space and beneficiate for 3pt shots !
It's coming, slowly but surely but again Ntilikina has to be coached by someone who'll be willing to give him minuts as a defensive leader, then offensively he has to find his spot around players who are absolutely unselfish.

You're surely watching more of this and in higher quality video than I am. However, it seems to me that the French coach is using these games to do two things.

The first is to get his key players attuned to playing with each other in various combinations. And I think those players are essentially Gobert-Batum-Fournier-Ntilikina-de Colo. Frank played, idk, 25 minutes on Thursday and 10 today. But that's irrelevant. Back-to-back-to-back games (with no tourney significance per se) should mean not playing your starters full minutes/game (in some of them at least).

The second is to try to figure out who else could be really useful and in combination with whom. And who will get cut. Who is going to get the 6th-9th man minutes?

On this board people watch these games (or read the box score) exclusively in terms of what Frank does (ie how much he scores). Obviously, that's a natural thing for Knicks fans to do, but a really dumb way of trying to understand the games.

The French coach, Vincent Collet, is here since a decade, so he has his players base (Batum, Fournier, De Colo, Gobert) and where you are absolutely right is that the coach is trying to set them up at first to control the path and the rythm.
The problem with this team is they would be a great NBA team playing with a very fast pace, but in FIBA (like in playoff time), half court bball is more present and where we struggle sometimes, and that's where Frank can be useful with his versatility and his way to organize the game with patience.
Systems aren't yet defined but sounds like De Colo could finish games at PG and Frank's minuts could be as a starter to be righ away agrressive defensively and set up the right mentality at the beginning, and then i'd see him closing the 3rd and starting the 4th because his way of playing brings players together, he has a great connection with Batum in term of unselfishness.
The french roster is massiv, with a lot of versatility. Ntilikina should have a perfect match inside with Poirier (just signed by the Celtics) where both love playing PnR.

Frank's role is so far on defense first, then on transition with his good body and vision, but too many times he had the opportunity to play a missmatch vs Huertas or Dos Santos (both smaller than Frank) and he never received the ball : is it because they dont trust him enough, or because they prefer setting up other major players ?
And Frank's attitude needs to stay ready and it'll come to him, but like with the Knicks, he needs more trust from his teamates.

In conclusion, it'll be hard to be happy in term of NBA bball with Frank's role with France, but what we have to see is :
What's his mission ? D and organization
if he completes these 2 things, offensive opportunities will come to him.

[iLLmatic860]

It'll be hard to see him scoring a lot since France plays with a strong hierarchy! Ntilikina has a def mission which he absolutely completes game after game, but we'd like to see him penetrate more, and move off ball to create space and beneficiate for 3pt shots !
It's coming, slowly but surely but again Ntilikina has to be coached by someone who'll be willing to give him minuts as a defensive leader, then offensively he has to find his spot around players who are absolutely unselfish.

You're surely watching more of this and in higher quality video than I am. However, it seems to me that the French coach is using these games to do two things.

The first is to get his key players attuned to playing with each other in various combinations. And I think those players are essentially Gobert-Batum-Fournier-Ntilikina-de Colo. Frank played, idk, 25 minutes on Thursday and 10 today. But that's irrelevant. Back-to-back-to-back games (with no tourney significance per se) should mean not playing your starters full minutes/game (in some of them at least).

The second is to try to figure out who else could be really useful and in combination with whom. And who will get cut. Who is going to get the 6th-9th man minutes?

On this board people watch these games (or read the box score) exclusively in terms of what Frank does (ie how much he scores). Obviously, that's a natural thing for Knicks fans to do, but a really dumb way of trying to understand the games.

The French coach, Vincent Collet, is here since a decade, so he has his players base (Batum, Fournier, De Colo, Gobert) and where you are absolutely right is that the coach is trying to set them up at first to control the path and the rythm.
The problem with this team is they would be a great NBA team playing with a very fast pace, but in FIBA (like in playoff time), half court bball is more present and where we struggle sometimes, and that's where Frank can be useful with his versatility and his way to organize the game with patience.
Systems aren't yet defined but sounds like De Colo could finish games at PG and Frank's minuts could be as a starter to be righ away agrressive defensively and set up the right mentality at the beginning, and then i'd see him closing the 3rd and starting the 4th because his way of playing brings players together, he has a great connection with Batum in term of unselfishness.
The french roster is massiv, with a lot of versatility. Ntilikina should have a perfect match inside with Poirier (just signed by the Celtics) where both love playing PnR.

Frank's role is so far on defense first, then on transition with his good body and vision, but too many times he had the opportunity to play a missmatch vs Huertas or Dos Santos (both smaller than Frank) and he never received the ball : is it because they dont trust him enough, or because they prefer setting up other major players ?
And Frank's attitude needs to stay ready and it'll come to him, but like with the Knicks, he needs more trust from his teamates.

In conclusion, it'll be hard to be happy in term of NBA bball with Frank's role with France, but what we have to see is :
What's his mission ? D and organization
if he completes these 2 things, offensive opportunities will come to him.

Yeah I dont think we should be taking these games that seriously. Ill rather wait and see what happens when the games are active meaningful. I always thought Franks role in the league should be 3 & D who should have opportunities to run the fast breaks and offense at times. He could be very beneficial to a playoff team. I dont think he will ever be that 15-20 PPG kinda guy but he seems to have a higher basketball IQ then people give him credit for.

[Kampuchea]

Doesn't look like an NBA player. Disappointed because I really thought he would make it

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Doesn't look like an NBA player. Disappointed because I really thought he would make it

If you think that you aren't watching the games in context (imo). Don't taj-out! Well. ofc, do what you like, but, my recommendation is to not taj-out.

[iLLmatic860]

Doesn't look like an NBA player. Disappointed because I really thought he would make it

Watch on YouTube

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

It'll be hard to see him scoring a lot since France plays with a strong hierarchy! Ntilikina has a def mission which he absolutely completes game after game, but we'd like to see him penetrate more, and move off ball to create space and beneficiate for 3pt shots !
It's coming, slowly but surely but again Ntilikina has to be coached by someone who'll be willing to give him minuts as a defensive leader, then offensively he has to find his spot around players who are absolutely unselfish.

You're surely watching more of this and in higher quality video than I am. However, it seems to me that the French coach is using these games to do two things.

The first is to get his key players attuned to playing with each other in various combinations. And I think those players are essentially Gobert-Batum-Fournier-Ntilikina-de Colo. Frank played, idk, 25 minutes on Thursday and 10 today. But that's irrelevant. Back-to-back-to-back games (with no tourney significance per se) should mean not playing your starters full minutes/game (in some of them at least).

The second is to try to figure out who else could be really useful and in combination with whom. And who will get cut. Who is going to get the 6th-9th man minutes?

On this board people watch these games (or read the box score) exclusively in terms of what Frank does (ie how much he scores). Obviously, that's a natural thing for Knicks fans to do, but a really dumb way of trying to understand the games.

The French coach, Vincent Collet, is here since a decade, so he has his players base (Batum, Fournier, De Colo, Gobert) and where you are absolutely right is that the coach is trying to set them up at first to control the path and the rythm.
The problem with this team is they would be a great NBA team playing with a very fast pace, but in FIBA (like in playoff time), half court bball is more present and where we struggle sometimes, and that's where Frank can be useful with his versatility and his way to organize the game with patience.
Systems aren't yet defined but sounds like De Colo could finish games at PG and Frank's minuts could be as a starter to be righ away agrressive defensively and set up the right mentality at the beginning, and then i'd see him closing the 3rd and starting the 4th because his way of playing brings players together, he has a great connection with Batum in term of unselfishness.
The french roster is massiv, with a lot of versatility. Ntilikina should have a perfect match inside with Poirier (just signed by the Celtics) where both love playing PnR.

Frank's role is so far on defense first, then on transition with his good body and vision, but too many times he had the opportunity to play a missmatch vs Huertas or Dos Santos (both smaller than Frank) and he never received the ball : is it because they dont trust him enough, or because they prefer setting up other major players ?
And Frank's attitude needs to stay ready and it'll come to him, but like with the Knicks, he needs more trust from his teamates.

In conclusion, it'll be hard to be happy in term of NBA bball with Frank's role with France, but what we have to see is :
What's his mission ? D and organization
if he completes these 2 things, offensive opportunities will come to him.

There was one play late in the first half where Frank dribbled himself completely free at the 3pt line (at about 60 degrees, right-hand side) and opted to take another dribble and feed into the post instead of take the 3, but otherwise I didn't see too much passivity - given that the system is to have him and Fournier both touch the ball at the start of "set" plays in the half court. Lots of hockey assists/double hockey assits at the end of that first half. He will slowly grow, imo, through the tourney into assuming more of the offense without alienating Gobert/Fournier/Batum by jumping at doing that.

Again, people who don't watch, or who haven't ever watched successful system basketball teams are somewhat mystified there. But that's on them (and/or the years on years of terrible Knicks teams plus the ESPN sportscentre 10 plays of the day they've grown up watching).

For France, there should be two possible routes at the tourney - assuming they don't blow up completely.

1) Small screw up in qualifying ... leads to quarter-final against USA, semi-final against Spain, final against Serbia

2) Ace qualifying .. leads to quarter-final against Greece (or Turkey/Montenegro), semi-final against Serbia, final against USA.

So those games quarter-final games on are where France really needs to thing their line-up.

I don't think Frank isn't going to be closing a game against, eg, Greece, if it isn't a blow-out. Ditto Serbia. Ditto USA. Spain ... all kinds of meh, because I don't think Spain will be good, so that may be a blow out.

[BBALLER4FR]

Doesn't look like an NBA player. Disappointed because I really thought he would make it

Watch on YouTube

First, he called him "****". Second, YES, Frank played well that game, but are we looking to induct Frank into the "They mentioned me" Hall of fame or are we looking for players who progress on the NBA level? He gets beat out of rotation spots by every NBA guard, and possibly many G-League guards, but one shout out from a few players is evidence of...?

[iLLmatic860]

Doesn't look like an NBA player. Disappointed because I really thought he would make it

Watch on YouTube

First, he called him "****". Second, YES, Frank played well that game, but are we looking to induct Frank into the "They mentioned me" Hall of fame or are we looking for players who progress on the NBA level? He gets beat out of rotation spots by every NBA guard, and possibly many G-League guards, but one shout out from a few players is evidence of...?

He said he doesnt look like an nba player lol

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Watch on YouTube

First, he called him "****". Second, YES, Frank played well that game, but are we looking to induct Frank into the "They mentioned me" Hall of fame or are we looking for players who progress on the NBA level? He gets beat out of rotation spots by every NBA guard, and possibly many G-League guards, but one shout out from a few players is evidence of...?

He said he doesnt look like an nba player lol

Really? You want to type out the words he said that lead you to think that?

Spoiler:

He didn't say that - welcome to foe :thumb:

[iLLmatic860]

First, he called him "****". Second, YES, Frank played well that game, but are we looking to induct Frank into the "They mentioned me" Hall of fame or are we looking for players who progress on the NBA level? He gets beat out of rotation spots by every NBA guard, and possibly many G-League guards, but one shout out from a few players is evidence of...?

He said he doesnt look like an nba player lol

Really? You want to type out the words he said that lead you to think that?

Spoiler:

He didn't say that - welcome to foe :thumb:

What

[PornDoc]

Hey not sure if you guys noticed, but this guy sucks.

[MaseInYourFace]

Yall know these games dont count yet right. Lets see how he do when he plays meaningful games

Ehh you gotta be careful using that logic. An argument can also be made he should be doing better since there is no pressure and the games don’t count yet.

[MaseInYourFace]

Here's the thing. Frank is a throwback player to the days when people cared about defense and not just offense. Bruce Bowen NEVER averaged over 10 points a game in ANY season but he's considered as a big reason why the Spurs were so good. With that said, people waiting and/or hoping Frank becomes a 12-14 ppg guy may never see that. Is that a bad thing?? Ask the Spurs... It's up to the Knicks organization to foster a roster that can utilize each guy's skill-set to the fullest. I like Fiz and am a huge supporter but like Horn, he didn't do Frank any favors the way he asked him to play.

All this crazy talk about Frank being out of the league in a couple of years is just that - CRAZY. Our problem is that we don't have a roster capable of bringing out Frank's talents - which is defense & unselfishness.

Some people's expectation is the problem and not necessarily Frank. He is who he is and that probably won't change.

Bowen played in a completely different era in basketball.

[MaseInYourFace]

Here's the thing. Frank is a throwback player to the days when people cared about defense and not just offense. Bruce Bowen NEVER averaged over 10 points a game in ANY season but he's considered a big reason why the Spurs were so good. With that said, people waiting and/or hoping Frank becomes a 12-14 ppg guy may never see that. Is that a bad thing?? Ask the Spurs... It's up to the Knicks organization to foster a roster that can utilize each guy's skill-set to the fullest. I like Fiz and am a huge supporter but like Horn, he didn't do Frank any favors the way he asked him to play.

All this crazy talk about Frank being out of the league in a couple of years is just that - CRAZY. Our problem is that we don't have a roster capable of bringing out Frank's talents - which is defense & unselfishness.

Some people's expectation is the problem and not necessarily Frank. He is who he is and that probably won't change.

Yeah, agree 100%. You still need players like that. Raptors had Danny Green starting (9ppg career), and GS had Dray (7.4 ppg, on 6.4 shots)...they were still extremly valuable players on championship caliber teams

Green has proven value offensively as a consistent spacer. Draymond has dropped off offensively but is still somewhat of a physical freak who can play point forward and defend outside and inside. Frank needs to carve out a role for himself like that. Right now all we have is hope.

[MaseInYourFace]

It's an easy boat to jump off of. Frank was always a boom/bust pick. It looks like bust but the guys picked directly after him weren't world beaters either until you get to Mitchell. Smith (sorry, Melo), Kennard, Zach Collins, Monk - I dunno. They could have roles? So could Frank.

So it looks like Frank is gonna be on the bust side. Still might not but probably will. Oh wellsky. Won't be the first upside, mid-lotto bust and definitely won't be the last.

Smith looks way better than Frank at this point...