Frank Thread 3: FIBA Frank Aftermath

[god shammgod]

I see one low-volume shooter and one brick layer.

he's only low volume because he doesn't start. i've solved that problem.

I look forward to Fiz disappointing you.

i never really expected anything else.

in the back of my mind, i kind of feel we need another tank year anyway

[GONYK]

he's only low volume because he doesn't start. i've solved that problem.

I look forward to Fiz disappointing you.

i never really expected anything else.

in the back of my mind, i kind of feel we need another tank year anyway

Well, buckle up sir, because I think you'll get it.

Too bad it will be of the Hornacek variety.

[moocow007]

trier's shooting >>>> frank's defense. come at me bros lol

Trier shooting nearly 40% from 3 and nearly 45% from the field overall ranks him as the most efficient offensive guard on the team (and the only guard that can actually seriously spread the floor) which considering how often he goes ISO Zo (and teams being able to hone in on him defensively) says a heck of a lot about his offensive skills.

Honestly, Trier was actually a pretty solid defender at Arizona where Sean Miller had Trier playing well on both sides of the ball. And Trier was pretty aggressive on the defensive end when he's focused on it last season, just that he spent a lot of time trying to leak out and get the jump offensively leaving himself in bad position to defend.

Trier plays fearlessly just like former Knick favorite John Starks did but you get the sense that he's still always in control and not going out of his element. I felt more comfortable with him having the ball in his hands than any other Knick last season...especially down the stretch and when the game was on the line. You can't teach that type of mindset (if you could, the Knicks would have taught it to Frank lol).

[Fat Kat]

nobody can shoot though. a backcourt where nobody can shoot in 2019 ?

that's why i'm team rj & trier. lol. it's not perfect but it's the best we got.

You need an actual PG in the starting lineup. We have 3, and since I doubt Kadeem gets the nod, it’ll be Dennis or Payton. The question is who’ll start with Dennis. I think Trier will make a case for himself

[Blockwatcher]

We don't have the personnel to field a backcourt that can reliably shoot, no matter what prospective lineup you roll out.

I see one low-volume shooter and one brick layer.

I see 1 woman getting punched in the face and 1 getting elbowed.

[god shammgod]

nobody can shoot though. a backcourt where nobody can shoot in 2019 ?

that's why i'm team rj & trier. lol. it's not perfect but it's the best we got.

You need an actual PG in the starting lineup. We have 3, and since I doubt Kadeem gets the nod, it’ll be Dennis or Payton. The question is who’ll start with Dennis. I think Trier will make a case for himself

i don't buy into that. that's an old way of thinking. rj is a better facilitator than frank or dennis to me. rj is gonna attack the basket a lot and collapse the defense. so what's the difference ? does harden need to play with a point guard ? he is the point guard. the guy setting people up doesn't need to play the 1.

[moocow007]

nobody can shoot though. a backcourt where nobody can shoot in 2019 ?

that's why i'm team rj & trier. lol. it's not perfect but it's the best we got.

You need an actual PG in the starting lineup. We have 3, and since I doubt Kadeem gets the nod, it’ll be Dennis or Payton. The question is who’ll start with Dennis. I think Trier will make a case for himself

i don't but into that. that's an old way of thinking. rj is a better facilitator than frank or dennis to me. rj is gonna attack the basket a lot and collapse the defense. so what's the difference ? does harden need to play with a point guard ? he is the point guard. the guy setting people up doesn't need to play the 1.

I think another problem with pairing Frank with RJ is not so much a facilitator but someone that can handle the ball and bring it quickly up the court so RJ (or Randle) can then run the offense. Frank's not the best ball handling PG we have and he also isn't the fleetest of foot when pushing the pace. That's more my concern (on top of being an offensive zero). You want to get the ball up and start whatever they're going to start. With all the bodies that can play on the team you want to go at full tilt 48 minutes (at least that's what I would do if I were Fiz). You play an extended rotation and tell guys to go all out, push the ball on offense. Trier or Smith Jr would probably be the best at that role. The added benefit of Trier (compared to Smith) is that not only can Trier push the ball up but he can also then get himself setup for a shot which, because he actually can shoot the 3, would force teams to guard him on the perimeter thereby spreading the floor for Randle or RJ to operate more effectively.

[GONYK]

nobody can shoot though. a backcourt where nobody can shoot in 2019 ?

that's why i'm team rj & trier. lol. it's not perfect but it's the best we got.

You need an actual PG in the starting lineup. We have 3, and since I doubt Kadeem gets the nod, it’ll be Dennis or Payton. The question is who’ll start with Dennis. I think Trier will make a case for himself

i don't but into that. that's an old way of thinking. rj is a better facilitator than frank or dennis to me. rj is gonna attack the basket a lot and collapse the defense. so what's the difference ? does harden need to play with a point guard ? he is the point guard. the guy setting people up doesn't need to play the 1.

RJ ain't Harden

[god shammgod]

You need an actual PG in the starting lineup. We have 3, and since I doubt Kadeem gets the nod, it’ll be Dennis or Payton. The question is who’ll start with Dennis. I think Trier will make a case for himself

i don't but into that. that's an old way of thinking. rj is a better facilitator than frank or dennis to me. rj is gonna attack the basket a lot and collapse the defense. so what's the difference ? does harden need to play with a point guard ? he is the point guard. the guy setting people up doesn't need to play the 1.

RJ ain't Harden

as a rookie he'll likely be better. will he ever be as good in his prime ? probably not but you never know. but i think running the offense will be his best skill as a rookie. i would be looking into developing him like that and not as just a scorer. he should have the ball and be making decisions.

[GONYK]

i don't but into that. that's an old way of thinking. rj is a better facilitator than frank or dennis to me. rj is gonna attack the basket a lot and collapse the defense. so what's the difference ? does harden need to play with a point guard ? he is the point guard. the guy setting people up doesn't need to play the 1.

RJ ain't Harden

as a rookie he'll likely be better. will he ever be as good in his prime ? probably not but you never know. but i think running the offense will be his best skill as a rookie. i would be looking into developing him like that and not as just a scorer. he should have the ball and be making decisions.

Well, that is probably the best way for him to be personally effective. I'm much more dubious if that will be beneficial for the team as a whole. Especially as rookie.

I think making him the primary playmaker could really be setting him up to fail. We'll see.

[god shammgod]

RJ ain't Harden

as a rookie he'll likely be better. will he ever be as good in his prime ? probably not but you never know. but i think running the offense will be his best skill as a rookie. i would be looking into developing him like that and not as just a scorer. he should have the ball and be making decisions.

Well, that is probably the best way for him to be personally effective. I'm much more dubious if that will be beneficial for the team as a whole. Especially as rookie.

I think making him the primary playmaker could really be setting him up to fail. We'll see.

well he's not gonna be anyway because they're gonna start dennis

[Fat Kat]

nobody can shoot though. a backcourt where nobody can shoot in 2019 ?

that's why i'm team rj & trier. lol. it's not perfect but it's the best we got.

You need an actual PG in the starting lineup. We have 3, and since I doubt Kadeem gets the nod, it’ll be Dennis or Payton. The question is who’ll start with Dennis. I think Trier will make a case for himself

i don't buy into that. that's an old way of thinking. rj is a better facilitator than frank or dennis to me. rj is gonna attack the basket a lot and collapse the defense. so what's the difference ? does harden need to play with a point guard ? he is the point guard. the guy setting people up doesn't need to play the 1.

I’m gonna have to see RJ play before I start comparing him to Harden. I haven’t seen RJ execute any advanced passes against an NBA defense, or show an ability to beat pressure, traps or double teams. If anything, summer league showed that he should probably come off the bench.

Point guards sometimes half to dribble well.

[j4remi]

I like this backcourt a lot...off the bench where they can just gun and we don't have to watch them try to defense starters in tandem. Trier was TRASH on defense last year and RJ's defense is my biggest concern. DSJ/Dot would be the balanced offense/defense tandem I rock with starting. If Frank can break into the backcourt rotation, so be it...

But there's also the factor...Payton is getting minutes and one or more of these youngsters will suffer for it.

[j4remi]

Watch on YouTube

Coach Nick more bullish on FIBA Frank than I was (apparently Alan Hahn too as he put Frank in his ideal starting backcourt during the KFTV interview). I just wanna see Frank get a shot to show his growth and see it sticks.

[NYKAL]

You can't win with a back court that can't shoot. Ntilinkina is the worst shooter out of all their guards. You put these 2 in the back court and teams will just clog the paint whenever anyone tries anything which will then effectively marginalize the biggest offensive skills of their top 3 offensive players (Randle who operates best in ISO in and near the paint area, Smith who drives more than most scoring points and RJ who works best going to the basket to his left). To do what? Get Ntilinkina's defense into the rotation? His defense isn't THAT good. In fact Ntilinkina's DPBM is in the negative and his DRating is over 110 for his career so far. Those are not good defensive metrics.

We don't have the personnel to field a backcourt that can reliably shoot, no matter what prospective lineup you roll out.

So you put the worst guard shooter in the starting backcourt in with the worst wing shooter? To do what? Get Ntilikina's vaunted defense into the rotation? His defensive stats have not been good. It just hasn't been near as bad as his offensive metrics and his defense hasn't sucked as much as his teammates. Unlike the Knicks other guards, he's the only offensive liability. For a team that is geared towards offense (it is what it is) it doens't make sense to try to win by adding a slight upgrade on defense at the cost of a significant downgrade on offense. It only makes sense if Ntilikina actually comes out and plays offense like he actually isn't afraid of it. Then absolutely. But thus far Ntilinkina has been one of the worst offensive players in the league. As of right now, does not make sense for that backcourt.

I think in time, RJ will be the primary ball handler. For some reason (I admit not a logical one) I can't see him and DSJ on the floor at the same time. I'm probably wrong but, something about it bothers me.

[NYKAL]

Read on Twitter

That's saying it mildly. It's all up to him. If he settles and defers again he'll be gone before the All-Star break.

good to see you Moo. Seems like its been a while

[Fat]

nobody can shoot though. a backcourt where nobody can shoot in 2019 ?

that's why i'm team rj & trier. lol. it's not perfect but it's the best we got.

That works but who’s going to defend the opposing teams point guard?

Both guys gonna get cooked.

[Fat]

We don't have the personnel to field a backcourt that can reliably shoot, no matter what prospective lineup you roll out.

So you put the worst guard shooter in the starting backcourt in with the worst wing shooter? To do what? Get Ntilikina's vaunted defense into the rotation? His defensive stats have not been good. It just hasn't been near as bad as his offensive metrics and his defense hasn't sucked as much as his teammates. Unlike the Knicks other guards, he's the only offensive liability. For a team that is geared towards offense (it is what it is) it doens't make sense to try to win by adding a slight upgrade on defense at the cost of a significant downgrade on offense. It only makes sense if Ntilikina actually comes out and plays offense like he actually isn't afraid of it. Then absolutely. But thus far Ntilinkina has been one of the worst offensive players in the league. As of right now, does not make sense for that backcourt.

I think in time, RJ will be the primary ball handler. For some reason (I admit not a logical one) I can't see him and DSJ on the floor at the same time. I'm probably wrong but, something about it bothers me.

One of them has to shoot the ball effectively or it’s an L

PAYTON actually is our best shooter beyond the arc at point guard 31% which is still trash.

[Fat]

The way I see is whoever is shooting the ball the best out of our point guArds in training camp and pre season is the one that should ultimately start.

[Fat Kat]

So you put the worst guard shooter in the starting backcourt in with the worst wing shooter? To do what? Get Ntilikina's vaunted defense into the rotation? His defensive stats have not been good. It just hasn't been near as bad as his offensive metrics and his defense hasn't sucked as much as his teammates. Unlike the Knicks other guards, he's the only offensive liability. For a team that is geared towards offense (it is what it is) it doens't make sense to try to win by adding a slight upgrade on defense at the cost of a significant downgrade on offense. It only makes sense if Ntilikina actually comes out and plays offense like he actually isn't afraid of it. Then absolutely. But thus far Ntilinkina has been one of the worst offensive players in the league. As of right now, does not make sense for that backcourt.

I think in time, RJ will be the primary ball handler. For some reason (I admit not a logical one) I can't see him and DSJ on the floor at the same time. I'm probably wrong but, something about it bothers me.

One of them has to shoot the ball effectively or it’s an L

PAYTON actually is our best shooter beyond the arc at point guard 31% which is still trash.

Dennis shoots the 3 better than Payton. Neither are very good though.