OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spree2kawhi]

On Mudiay, Frank and the whole playing time needed for development thing...

Mudiay was 21 when the Knicks traded for him. That is 2 years younger than Frank is right now and at about the same age that you guys are implying are critical development years for young players. So...I'm not getting the argument that giving minutes to Mudiay being an example of the Knicks not trying to develop young players by giving them playing time. Maybe the Knicks view was that Frank just wasn't worth investing in and that in part is why they traded for Mudiay and attempted to give him the playing time that some are saying should have gone to Frank. Mudiay wasn't some veteran hired gun. Just want to make sure folk realize that.

This is about "not trying to develop young players". It's about "not trying to develop Frank", in particular. This is exactly the problem I'm referring to when you bring in a different coaching staff/front office personnel each year. No consistent vision in how we were going to develop him. We just bounced around from PG to PG. He kept falling through the cracks. I can't wait to see him blossom in the next 2-3 years. He's going to be a beast.

I could see that, but I could also see him drop out of training camp.

[Gravy]

Short of the G League, they could’ve just let him play over those other clowns. We weren’t winning with them so why not give those minutes to our lottery pick? We could’ve also had a stable coaching staff and front office that had a consistent plan for developing him. Every year a new coaching staff comes in with a different coaching philosophy, etc. Of course, Frank’s health played a great role as well.who is responsible for that?

If you want to blame everyone except Frank for not being able to score more than 6 points in 21 minutes I dont know what else to say...

My point is that while we're losing/tanking, it's perfectly okay for Frank to score only 6 points in 21 minutes because he can affect the for us in other ways. What was Payton doing that was so great? Frank needed someone to show confidence in him and Thibs isn't that kind of coach particularly with a player he didn't have any role in acquiring. Even this past season, we were only expected to win only around 30 games and we started Payton all season long. Why?

Frank's not a finished product. But I'm fine with him going to Dallas which should be a better situation for him.

Curious..how do you expect Jason Kidd to play Frank?

[dakomish23]

Somebody pick up the phone

Cause buzz f*cking called it like 3 years ago

Sorry I missed this until now.

Super busy yesterday and then I got some **** news and was out of the box for a while.

BUZZTRODAMUS RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I tried to find the post you called it in. There were 153,000+ posts with Frank in it

[stuporman]

So I see he finally signed.... is it vetmin? Camp tryout? What's the deal?

[HerSports85]

Always predicted he’ll end up on the Spurs or Mavs. Also said he’ll flourish. He fits perfect next to Luka

[Chanel Bomber]

Short of the G League, they could’ve just let him play over those other clowns. We weren’t winning with them so why not give those minutes to our lottery pick? We could’ve also had a stable coaching staff and front office that had a consistent plan for developing him. Every year a new coaching staff comes in with a different coaching philosophy, etc. Of course, Frank’s health played a great role as well.who is responsible for that?

If you want to blame everyone except Frank for not being able to score more than 6 points in 21 minutes I dont know what else to say...

My point is that while we're losing/tanking, it's perfectly okay for Frank to score only 6 points in 21 minutes because he can affect the for us in other ways. What was Payton doing that was so great? Frank needed someone to show confidence in him and Thibs isn't that kind of coach particularly with a player he didn't have any role in acquiring. Even this past season, we were only expected to win only around 30 games and we started Payton all season long. Why?

Frank's not a finished product. But I'm fine with him going to Dallas which should be a better situation for him.

Because Frank is not an NBA point guard.

Hahn revealed that the veteran players hated playing with him as the point guard because he was hesitant whenever he crossed halfcourt and they never knew which plays he wanted to run. Oftentimes, he would randomly reset the play and then get rid of the ball with the shotclock running out so he didn't have to get a shot off. It's not PG behavior.

Frank is a 3D guy, he has none of the requisite skills or mental make-up to run an offense as the lead playmaker or ballhandler. He was reportedly insistent on playing the point and being developed as a PG, so he logically didn't get any playing time. That's on him. You have to be realistic if you already lack talent.

I'd rather have seen Stromile Swift run the point than ElFraud at one point last season. LeFrid actually made me appreciate Frank a little bit, especially in terms of attitude. But even LeFrid is better at running an offense than Frank. It's the other stuff where Frank's more valuable than him.

The question is - should we have played Frank as a 3D guy and run the offense through RJ and Randle? Thibodeau believed otherwise. He was probably right, seeing how the team overachieved in the regular season.

[El Poochio]

Somebody pick up the phone

Cause buzz f*cking called it like 3 years ago

Sorry I missed this until now.

Super busy yesterday and then I got some **** news and was out of the box for a while.

BUZZTRODAMUS RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I tried to find the post you called it in. There were 153,000+ posts with Frank in it

Queen buzz of the frank hive

[Guano]

Frank fans don't even like Frank. they like an idea, an enigma, potential, a delusion - because what Frank was was buns.

[DaGawd]

It’s a camp deal I hear.. he still might not even make the team

[Clyde_Style]

First one to post on page 100 gets free kraut and mustard

[Reign23]

perfect situation for him. hope he stays healthy and stick around

[KnicksGadfly]

I've been here for a long time and seen a lot of stupid arguments but I'm probably gladdest we don't ever need to talk about Frank vs Elfrid ever again

[mpharris36]

It’s a camp deal I hear.. he still might not even make the team

doesnt sound like a camp deal to me

Read on Twitter

[moocow007]

On Mudiay, Frank and the whole playing time needed for development thing...

Mudiay was 21 when the Knicks traded for him. That is 2 years younger than Frank is right now and at about the same age that you guys are implying are critical development years for young players. So...I'm not getting the argument that giving minutes to Mudiay being an example of the Knicks not trying to develop young players by giving them playing time. Maybe the Knicks view was that Frank just wasn't worth investing in and that in part is why they traded for Mudiay and attempted to give him the playing time that some are saying should have gone to Frank. Mudiay wasn't some veteran hired gun. Just want to make sure folk realize that.

This is about "not trying to develop young players". It's about "not trying to develop Frank", in particular. This is exactly the problem I'm referring to when you bring in a different coaching staff/front office personnel each year. No consistent vision in how we were going to develop him. We just bounced around from PG to PG. He kept falling through the cracks. I can't wait to see him blossom in the next 2-3 years. He's going to be a beast.

But why would the Knicks be willing to develop every other young player but not Frank? Because they don't like the French? Because they want to develop ISO players only? Did he fall through the cracks or was he just not worth developing?

That 4 head coach argument? What it tells me is that 4 different basketball coaches didn't feel Frank was worth developing or using or pushing.

My problem is what you are saying implies some sort of intentional effort to keep Frank down while simultaneously working to prop the other young players up.

Why would they do this?

Not saying it would be beneath them to do this, but it doesn't make sense when folks use this type of argument. Now if Frank actually showed flashes that he was an NBA caliber PG worth developing then sure. But he really hasn't.

Should we also do the same for Knox?

I'm having this debate with another poster in the wiretap thread. That poster said that Frank had numerous 15 point games and even some much higher ones this past season. He did not. But to surprisingly a lot of people they seem to want to believe he has.

He's like Dante Exum...remember him?

Came into that draft as another "golden goose" (slash) "unicorn" type prospect (tall athletic PG). Then folks realized that Exum (who BTW was not drafted by some half baked front office mind you but widely considered one of the "model" franchises in terms of development) just wasn't an NBA caliber PG and that he couldn't be developed into one. And Exum just got picked up off of the scrap heap as well.

[Phish Tank]

Few things can be true at the same time:

1) The Knicks pre-Leon did a terrible job investing in all forms of player development, not just limited to kids. The Fizdale era had the fewest of the fewest player development coaches. That all changed once Leon took over.

2) Draft scouts and others ranked Frank too high on their big boards just because he was 18 years old at the time of the draft. In 2021, a guy like him would easily be drafted in the low 20s.

3) Frank - just like Knox and several other players - probably could have used a few extra years of seasoning before entering the NBA Draft. Sure, it's hard to turn down nearly $20 million over the first 4 years, but his long-term financial trajectory could have been a lot better had he entered the draft at 20/21 instead of 18.

4) Had he done the above, he probably would have also entered the draft as a SG instead of a PG.

5) International rookies/kids like Frank historically struggle on dumpster fire teams because they lack stability. If you go back in time, almost all the international players drafted in the lotto (excluding Luka, Dirk, Gasol) that ended up on dumpster teams never really gained footing in the league. It's another reason why the most successful end up drafted later in the 1st where they end up on better squads and produce more.

6) With that said, Frank wasn't able to fix most of his pre-draft weaknesses while as a Knick and his shot was too inconsistent to ever turn into a consistent role player with us.

[Capn'O]

3) Frank - just like Knox and several other players - probably could have used a few extra years of seasoning before entering the NBA Draft. Sure, it's hard to turn down nearly $20 million over the first 4 years, but his long-term financial trajectory could have been a lot better had he entered the draft at 20/21 instead of 18.

I hope we're finally done with that ridiculous idea that we shouldn't be sending out prospects to the G-League because it might embarrass them. Both of those players could have benefitted a lot from it and now it's the organization and them with egg on their face because it didn't work out.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Few things can be true at the same time:

1) The Knicks pre-Leon did a terrible job investing in all forms of player development, not just limited to kids. The Fizdale era had the fewest of the fewest player development coaches. That all changed once Leon took over.

2) Draft scouts and others ranked Frank too high on their big boards just because he was 18 years old at the time of the draft. In 2021, a guy like him would easily be drafted in the low 20s.

3) Frank - just like Knox and several other players - probably could have used a few extra years of seasoning before entering the NBA Draft. Sure, it's hard to turn down nearly $20 million over the first 4 years, but his long-term financial trajectory could have been a lot better had he entered the draft at 20/21 instead of 18.

4) Had he done the above, he probably would have also entered the draft as a SG instead of a PG.

5) International rookies/kids like Frank historically struggle on dumpster fire teams because they lack stability. If you go back in time, almost all the international players drafted in the lotto (excluding Luka, Dirk, Gasol) that ended up on dumpster teams never really gained footing in the league. It's another reason why the most successful end up drafted later in the 1st where they end up on better squads and produce more.

6) With that said, Frank wasn't able to fix most of his pre-draft weaknesses while as a Knick and his shot was too inconsistent to ever turn into a consistent role player with us.

all great points. i will add that i do think frank has proven himself as a catch-and-shoot threat.

that's all i got. he's not effective at anything else on offense in the pro level besides reading spots and sets. his court vision and passing can't even be capitalized upon because he can't create. love the kid, but i get it.

[mpharris36]

Few things can be true at the same time:

1) The Knicks pre-Leon did a terrible job investing in all forms of player development, not just limited to kids. The Fizdale era had the fewest of the fewest player development coaches. That all changed once Leon took over.

2) Draft scouts and others ranked Frank too high on their big boards just because he was 18 years old at the time of the draft. In 2021, a guy like him would easily be drafted in the low 20s.

3) Frank - just like Knox and several other players - probably could have used a few extra years of seasoning before entering the NBA Draft. Sure, it's hard to turn down nearly $20 million over the first 4 years, but his long-term financial trajectory could have been a lot better had he entered the draft at 20/21 instead of 18.

4) Had he done the above, he probably would have also entered the draft as a SG instead of a PG.

5) International rookies/kids like Frank historically struggle on dumpster fire teams because they lack stability. If you go back in time, almost all the international players drafted in the lotto (excluding Luka, Dirk, Gasol) that ended up on dumpster teams never really gained footing in the league. It's another reason why the most successful end up drafted later in the 1st where they end up on better squads and produce more.

6) With that said, Frank wasn't able to fix most of his pre-draft weaknesses while as a Knick and his shot was too inconsistent to ever turn into a consistent role player with us.

all great points. i will add that i do think frank has proven himself as a catch-and-shoot threat.

that's all i got. he's not effective at anything else on offense in the pro level besides reading spots and sets. his court vision and passing can't even be capitalized upon because he can't create. love the kid, but i get it.

He was also on a roster that sucked offensively without a PG for years on years with the expectation that he could fill that role. He obviously didn't have the skill set to fill that role.

However like you said he has proven he can C&S and defend which are two qualities teams value. I'm sure if the knicks were more stable especially offensively Frank would have found his role easier.

It didn't work out for him here but with Luka and not having to play the main ball handler role I think he can find a niche in Dallas.

Its one of the situations where it was in both parties interest to part ways.

[Gravy]

I'm having this debate with another poster in the wiretap thread. That poster said that Frank had numerous 15 point games and even some much higher ones this past season. He did not. But to surprisingly a lot of people they seem to want to believe he has.

I remember arguing with someone who said the Knicks never gave Frank a chance to start any games. I showed him a pic of the stats with all the games he started. He says the chart was all lies... Its so strange, its like a qanon delusion.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Don't even care. Nearly died on this hill but...I am over it now. Good luck in the future. Next man up... McBride.