PG: Knicks-Suns, where the SL squad plays basketball better

[mpharris36]

Well they tried and failed so I’m just saying on a personal level you might want to do that. They obviously won’t say that but we should anyway

In the offseason I kinda started to reset my expections after what I believe they had a dreadful offseason. Our one calling card they completely threw away for mediocre vets who can score but give more up on the other end then they can produce on offense.

I didn't mind spending but they clearly misspent our enormous amount of cap space.

They weren't going to get any further if they didn't improve offensively

let be honest though its not that hard to improve from payton/bullock offensively. What shouldn't have happened is that they got significantly worse defensively from payton/bullock who weren't even that good of defenders.

I know you can't plan for Randle/RJ playing worse but that clearly isn't helping either.

Rose being out also proves who the MIP on the team is.

[Clyde_Style]

Wingo just wants to get to the ECF one more time

So sad

Wingo is going to have to win the lotto and then friend up Peter Theil to having any chance at that.

Evil Ccksckr Peter Thiel, that Peter Thiel?

I'd rather do cartwheels with a possessed Linda Blair

[thebuzzardman]

Real talk, this team is soft. Particularly the starters.

It starts with our backcourt and then trickles down. Kemba for all of his offensive talents is soft defensively and Fournier, too.

It pains me to say it, but as much as a scrub as Peyton was, he didn't back down defensively from anyone and it set that tone for us. His problem was that he was complete garbage in every other category. And Bullock didn't back down either. That part of their game was part of our identity and we clearly don't have it now.

Idgaf that Kemba from NY. I don’t like his mentality or demeanor. He just happy to be here. No edge. No sense of urgency. Smiling with opposing players all the time. He is like the anti-McBride. He be hugging everyone in the league. Someone said it best when they said Kemba carrying it like it’s a farewell tour. I get those vibes from him too.

Kemba's out there grinning more than the black butler from a racist 1930's movie

[thebuzzardman]

Kemba just said “you can tell that team really plays for each other.”

Knicks players keep saying stuff like this about other teams. Seems like shots fired on the slick. They gotta be lowkey saying their own team doesn’t. At least not for a sustained period.

Hmm. Wonder who they mean?

[GONYK]

In the offseason I kinda started to reset my expections after what I believe they had a dreadful offseason. Our one calling card they completely threw away for mediocre vets who can score but give more up on the other end then they can produce on offense.

I didn't mind spending but they clearly misspent our enormous amount of cap space.

They weren't going to get any further if they didn't improve offensively

let be honest though its not that hard to improve from payton/bullock offensively. What shouldn't have happened is that they got significantly worse defensively from payton/bullock who weren't even that good of defenders.

I know you can't plan for Randle/RJ playing worse but that clearly isn't helping either.

Rose being out also proves who the MIP on the team is.

Our main issues right now are:

- Our scorers aren't shooting well
- Our starters don't play with consistent effort/focus (which Thibs called them out for tonight)
- Our players can't seem to agree on who should be running the offense
- Kemba's ineffectiveness

The bad defense is happening at an intersection of all those other issues, IMO.

The players we have let offense affect their effort, which affects their defense. I don't think we are falling to a bottom 5 defensive team because Bullock and Payton are so much better on that end than Fournier and Kemba.

These players just don't have the fight in them right now.

[BugginOut]

Problem is the same the Knicks always had. Our starting PG sucks. The NBA isn’t a game you can play at half speed. Kemba can shoot pull up 3s, but he is clearly hobbled and the rest of the starters having to make up for him take them out his game.

IQ is looking like he can develop into that starting PG, but moving him to the starting lineup and Kemba to the bench means you have a Rose, Kemba defensive backcourt for the backups which is no bueno.

Honestly want to see what this team looks like with Kemba out for a stretch of games.

IQ/Rose
Fournier/Grimes
RJ/Burks
Randle/Obi
Mitch/Noel

This is a rotation that is a lot more balanced on both sides of the ball

[mpharris36]

They weren't going to get any further if they didn't improve offensively

let be honest though its not that hard to improve from payton/bullock offensively. What shouldn't have happened is that they got significantly worse defensively from payton/bullock who weren't even that good of defenders.

I know you can't plan for Randle/RJ playing worse but that clearly isn't helping either.

Rose being out also proves who the MIP on the team is.

Our main issues right now are:

- Our scorers aren't shooting well
- Our starters don't play with consistent effort/focus (which Thibs called them out for tonight)
- Our players can't seem to agree on who should be running the offense
- Kemba's ineffectiveness

The bad defense is happening at an intersection of all those other issues, IMO.

The players we have let offense affect their effort, which affects their defense. I don't think we are falling to a bottom 5 defensive team because Bullock and Payton are so much better on that end than Fournier and Kemba.

These players just don't have the fight in them right now.

too many cooks in the kitchen

[Iron Mantis]

I think we just need to accept the team will be average at best until a big trade happens. Might even be in the lottery and might be a couple years too. Temper expectations

Knicks haven't made a big trade to improve the team since acquiring Carmelo Anthony.

They had an excellent trade asset in KP but were gun shy when his value was super high.

Knicks have to make a move before teams are only calling about Quickley. I think Randle as the centerpiece with a young player and a 1st can get you something nice on the trade market.

[thebuzzardman]

I think we just need to accept the team will be average at best until a big trade happens. Might even be in the lottery and might be a couple years too. Temper expectations

Knicks haven't made a big trade to improve the team since acquiring Carmelo Anthony.

They had an excellent trade asset in KP but were gun shy when his value was super high.

Knicks have to make a move before teams are only calling about Quickley. I think Randle as the centerpiece with a young player and a 1st can get you something nice on the trade market.

Except that the Knicks only truly nice young player is IQ...

[sol5377]

1-trade Randle for Simmons
2-buy out Walker

[RHODEY]

Kemba just said “you can tell that team really plays for each other.”

Knicks players keep saying stuff like this about other teams. Seems like shots fired on the slick. They gotta be lowkey saying their own team doesn’t. At least not for a sustained period.

Definitely taking a shot. It’s obvious there are issues with the players. Breen and Clyde point it out, we point it out, players themselves bring it up . It’s that obvious that nobody, except Randle, is sweeping it under the rug.

Right and as our so called "leader" why hasn't he called for a players only meeting? Is he afraid the rest of the team would call him out?

[thebuzzardman]

Knicks should start IQ and Grimes, probably start Fournier but MAYBE they can go with RJ, let Rose Burks hold down the 2nd unit and ask Kemba to medically retire or become a color commentator or something. Some way he can stop playing with dignity. Eat the 6 million for 2 more years.

Randle can dominate the ball more in the starting lineup but at least there are two guys who can defend at the point of attack and who can shoot.
Saying this because Randle is a 6th man scorer backup PF/C on a good team, only Knicks paid him like a starter so we are stuck with him.

None of the above is happening though. Maybe if they fire Thibs and promote Johnny Bryant or some crazy thing. Which will still take at least another year.

[thebuzzardman]

1-trade Randle for Simmons
2-buy out Walker

Can Simmons play center? I'm asking this seriously. I mean, if he's not going to shoot that much...and neither do Mitch or Noel, then this might work.
Except that Philly doesn't want Randle. Maybe with Burks and Rose and some #1 picks.

[DaGawd]

Just score board watched at the gym. Glad I didn’t waste my time

[Iron Mantis]

1-trade Randle for Simmons
2-buy out Walker

We'd have to throw in several firsts.

Crazy part is the Sixers would probably bring Randle off the bench.

[BugginOut]

I was going through the lineup numbers just for sh*ts and giggles and after 2 minutes you can tell that the problem with the team is Kemba.

Our starting 5 man lineup (which has the most minutes of any 5 man unit in the NBA) has a net rating of -15.5. Which is god awful. And most people would look at those numbers and just say all the starters suck

However, when you check the 3-man lineup of Randle, RJ and Fournier their net rating is only -5.5.

Considering how much that lineup plays with Kemba it is pretty crazy that the lineup is 10 points better just from the few minutes they play without Kemba.

Futhermore, if you check the 4-man lineup of Rose, RJ, Randle and Fournier (that have played 73 minutes total this season) that group has a net rating of 26.6!!!

We can’t pretend anymore. Kemba is washed. You don’t put together the worst starting lineup in history, with starting level NBA players, without there something being something deeper. It’s beyond basketball. While we can’t see it the numbers don’t lie. Kemba is not playing like an NBA player right now, he needs to sit

[PeteW]

Knicks should start IQ and Grimes, probably start Fournier but MAYBE they can go with RJ, let Rose Burks hold down the 2nd unit and ask Kemba to medically retire or become a color commentator or something. Some way he can stop playing with dignity. Eat the 6 million for 2 more years.

Randle can dominate the ball more in the starting lineup but at least there are two guys who can defend at the point of attack and who can shoot.
Saying this because Randle is a 6th man scorer backup PF/C on a good team, only Knicks paid him like a starter so we are stuck with him.

None of the above is happening though. Maybe if they fire Thibs and promote Johnny Bryant or some crazy thing. Which will still take at least another year.

IQ yes, Grimes isn't ready for primetime. He has his good hustle moments but he looked like a rookie tonight.

[duetta]

Kills you when you consider that we could have traded down and drafted Booker. The draft is certainly a crap shoot - and we specialize in crap.

[thebuzzardman]

Knicks should start IQ and Grimes, probably start Fournier but MAYBE they can go with RJ, let Rose Burks hold down the 2nd unit and ask Kemba to medically retire or become a color commentator or something. Some way he can stop playing with dignity. Eat the 6 million for 2 more years.

Randle can dominate the ball more in the starting lineup but at least there are two guys who can defend at the point of attack and who can shoot.
Saying this because Randle is a 6th man scorer backup PF/C on a good team, only Knicks paid him like a starter so we are stuck with him.

None of the above is happening though. Maybe if they fire Thibs and promote Johnny Bryant or some crazy thing. Which will still take at least another year.

IQ yes, Grimes isn't ready for primetime. He has his good hustle moments but he looked like a rookie tonight.

Give him 5 or 10 games. Will it be that much worse than RJ still roboting around the court? No.

[NYKat]

As long as the Knicks do not go undefeated it’ll always be doomsday scenerios on this board after a loss