PG: Kemba Rises From the Ashes. Knicks Still Ass

[duetta]

Randle had a fine season in New Orleans. You would think that they would have interest in a guy who played well there and is locked in to a long-term contract.

[Clyde_Style]

I know Detroit is terrible, but any chance we can lose that game?

Yes

I’m in preliminary talks to make it happen

[Jalen Bluntson]

let's brainstorm....which teams could realistically be interested in Randle?

Beijing Ducks

[Adelheid]

thibs that was a horrible thing to say

[Nazrmohamed]

yup

I don't think it works that way. A 3rd option has to be more EFF with less looks. Randle isn't a C&S guy and he isn't a difference maker on defense. He thrives last year because he was very EFF with high usage. He know has **** EFF with high usage.

Its not automatic that as they take away his usage he will automatically become more EFF because his game is contested mid range shots...he made a lot of inefficient last year...maybe it was just a fluke.

kevin love and chris bosh had to just stand outside mostly once they became 3rd options. that's what randle would have to do with most teams. i guess he could be like draymond on golden state but he doesn't play defense like draymond. so now you need a center who shoots 3s and defends and two guards who are great from 3. how much work do you have to do to build around this motherf*cker ? it aint worth it.

If you have to get that creative in terms of building around someone...he probably shouldn't be built around.

What separates Draymond is he captains one of the best defenses in the NBA. Randle couldn't get even 10% to that level if he tried.

Love is probably the best comp in terms of potential on court impact as a 3rd option in terms of pts and boards and solid assists.

But Love a sniper from 3 and a great C&S guy. You don't have to consistently guard randle when he doesn't have the ball because I don't think teams fear him from deep. Why would you? He has had one year his entire career of being above league avg 3 pt shooter. We paid him to hopefully build on last year...when it looks like last year seems to be just an anomaly with his success in terms of outside shots.

Well to be fair (and I'm just speaking to how it could work, not that it's my goal) look at true #1option contracts. These guys are all making like 40mil per yr. The Nets have like 3 guys at or close to 40mil. So I guess we did indeed get what we paid for and that's why when people say build around......Julius makes a pretty average salary for a guy we all believe is really a 3rd option, probably very cost effective for a 2nd option and a steal for a primary (if he were indeed a primary). So my point is you could keep Julius and not necessarily be building around him. You could build OVER HIM, similar to how NY got Amare and then brought in Melo who was better. Or the Heat had Wade andbrought in a player better and below him in Lebron and Bosh. There doesn't need to be this mathematical order of operations.

Doesn't HAVE TO be, ideally you typically see your alpha established 1st but sometimes it's your 3rd or 2nd and when it happens like that the wind or 3rd must act like the aloha until the alpha is acquired. But hey, I'm in no mood to endorse Randle right now so again, don't take that as what I want to happen just saying it could happen.

[FutureKnicksGM]

i don't know. usually you want a 3rd option to hit some outside shots because they can't dominate the ball. he doesn't do that or play defense.

yup

I don't think it works that way. A 3rd option has to be more EFF with less looks. Randle isn't a C&S guy and he isn't a difference maker on defense. He thrives last year because he was very EFF with high usage. He know has **** EFF with high usage.

Its not automatic that as they take away his usage he will automatically become more EFF because his game is contested mid range shots...he made a lot of inefficient last year...maybe it was just a fluke.

kevin love and chris bosh had to just stand outside mostly once they became 3rd options. that's what randle would have to do with most teams. i guess he could be like draymond on golden state but he doesn't play defense like draymond and he doesn't have the passing iq. so now you need a center who shoots 3s, defends and can pass a bit and two guards who are great from 3. how much work do you have to do to build around this motherf*cker ? it aint worth it.

By far the least amount of work than anyone else on this roster.

And no, you don't need all that from a Centre, just not a complete non threat like we have from that position. All you need is a freaking Brook Lopez level center, they dont cost a fortune.

[GONYK]

Yeah but that would signal a pretty big tear down. If they do move Rose/Burks that would clearly open up mins for McBride and Grimes. And the defense would pick up for sure. But the offense would take a hit as well.

Also Fournier just isn't movable at this point with his contract and the way he defends. So he is here for the foreseeable future. That 3rd guaranteed year is a tough pill to swallow.

Trade Burks. I'm not sure about Rose.

Trade Kemba, obviously.

I think Fournier is movable. He's pretty established in the league and 30 games doesn't outweigh 7 years. At the same time we'd probably take back trash. So iffy on that this season.

I don't think it will be a full scale teardown unless there is a deal for Julius on the table (Fox?). Just enough to get the young guys on the floor.

Kemba is not in the rotation so that technically wouldn't open up minutes but I get your point. Burks can be moved and that would probably open up mins for Grimes or McBride.

Fournier is going to be really tough to move unless we are willing to take a bad contract back in return who is worse player just to open up minutes. That probably would make basketball sense but it also signals the FO is pulling the plug on the entire offseason they sold us on...they would have to swallow a lot of pride and a tough sell to an owner. Not sure you can have many more offseasons like that if you are trying to trade nearly every pieces you signs to multi year deals in year 1 of there deals because they aren't performing.

They were signed to be traded though. I'm steadfast in that belief. I don't think offloading any of them matters in any meaningful way.

The FO has to do what's best regardless. I think it's an easy sell to pivot because all the young guys (that you drafted) are producing faster than anticipated.

That's what the fans want to see anyway.

[Clyde_Style]

He is being asked to generate the offense on a team that lacks creators way too much.

That's a myth. The only thing you need to create offense in this league is pick and roll and the fact that yet again Noel,Taj and Mitch combine for 5 shot attempts tell you that it's something we don't employ. Most of Kemba and Fourniers shots tonight were shots you'd otherwise think are heat check shots and weren't necessarily a result of multiple passes and the defense scurrying around with the same confused look we had in the 4rth. No no no no no.


THIBS can't generate offense, his SYSTEM doesn't generate offense. If anything we have
Kemba
Rose
Quickley
Burks
Randle who all can create thier own offense if you were ok watching them iso all game. What this team lacks isn't shot creators, what we lack is a dynamic system of off ball movement, passing for the sake of finding the open man, any level of misdirection. So no, it's not that Randle lacks guys who can create so he's forced to. What's happening is he and Thibs are forcing the rest of the team to stand around, watch and if they're lucky get thier own chance to make something happen with 5 seconds left on the shot clock.


Don't perpetuate that bull.

Chanel kept talking about needing more shot creators. I disagreed. Sure, we need more talent, but the biggest problem is we play like morons. You need shot makers who play well together more than shot creators.

[blueNorange]

all the pro tank crowd acting like the draft pick won't start the season buried behind the depth chart.

between iq, obi, grimes, and mcbride iq plays the most minutes and it's only 20 mpg.

[mpharris36]

I sincerely doubt Thibs is anywhere near the hot seat

thibs is as safe as you are going to get it terms of a FO perspective.

as long as his buddies Leon/WWW are here Thibs will be here.

Thibs is just about to move into a 9 MM pad locally in January.

I would say he has one of the safest jobs in the sport...the only thing when it might get dicey if Dolan fires Leon/WWW...that would be a package deal. If anyone this regime is going to double down more on thibs and more likely to trade more draft capital then tear it down...because thibs isn't a rebuild type of coach.

[Jalen Bluntson]

thibs that was a horrible thing to say

What did he say?

[knickstape4ever]

I sincerely doubt Thibs is anywhere near the hot seat

unfortunately not, but based on the direction this team needs to go, Thibs isn't the right coach for the job

Thibs and this FO are tied together. I don't see Leon moving on from him

How patient will Dolan be? I assume Leon sold Dolan on improvement this season, so he'll likely be disappointed when we miss the playoffs. if we miss the play-in game, does that force Dolans hand? IMO as of now, I think Thibs coaches this year and next, but when they fail to live up to last season for 2 years in a row, missing the playoffs, Dolan will then reset w/ a new FO

[Clyde_Style]

kevin love and chris bosh had to just stand outside mostly once they became 3rd options. that's what randle would have to do with most teams. i guess he could be like draymond on golden state but he doesn't play defense like draymond. so now you need a center who shoots 3s and defends and two guards who are great from 3. how much work do you have to do to build around this motherf*cker ? it aint worth it.

If you have to get that creative in terms of building around someone...he probably shouldn't be built around.

What separates Draymond is he captains one of the best defenses in the NBA. Randle couldn't get even 10% to that level if he tried.

Love is probably the best comp in terms of potential on court impact as a 3rd option in terms of pts and boards and solid assists.

But Love a sniper from 3 and a great C&S guy. You don't have to consistently guard randle when he doesn't have the ball because I don't think teams fear him from deep. Why would you? He has had one year his entire career of being above league avg 3 pt shooter. We paid him to hopefully build on last year...when it looks like last year seems to be just an anomaly with his success in terms of outside shots.

Well to be fair (and I'm just speaking to how it could work, not that it's my goal) look at true #1option contracts. These guys are all making like 40mil per yr. The Nets have like 3 guys at or close to 40mil. So I guess we did indeed get what we paid for and that's why when people say build around......Julius makes a pretty average salary for a guy we all believe is really a 3rd option, probably very cost effective for a 2nd option and a steal for a primary (if he were indeed a primary). So my point is you could keep Julius and not necessarily be building around him. You could build OVER HIM, similar to how NY got Amare and then brought in Melo who was better. Or the Heat had Wade andbrought in a player better and below him in Lebron and Bosh. There doesn't need to be this mathematical order of operations.

Doesn't HAVE TO be, ideally you typically see your alpha established 1st but sometimes it's your 3rd or 2nd and when it happens like that the wind or 3rd must act like the aloha until the alpha is acquired. But hey, I'm in no mood to endorse Randle right now so again, don't take that as what I want to happen just saying it could happen.

But $29M per year is not AVERAGE. Randle is paid a fukton of money for his abilities.

[snadler]

Things that posted on here that are a waste of time:
1) firing Rose
2) Firing Thibs
3) trading Randle
4) losing enough for a high lottery pick

[robillionaire]

all the pro tank crowd acting like the draft pick won't start the season buried behind the depth chart.

between iq, obi, grimes, and mcbride iq plays the most minutes and it's only 20 mpg.

Or acting like they won’t trade the draft pick

[Worst_to_First]

let's brainstorm....which teams could realistically be interested in Randle?

Mavs and Blazers… teams desperate enough to think that a third “star” could help them get over the hump.

The Kings also but perhaps unfortunately the best haul we could get from then is Buddy Hield and Marvin Bagley.

[knickstape4ever]

I sincerely doubt Thibs is anywhere near the hot seat

thibs is as safe as you are going to get it terms of a FO perspective.

as long as his buddies Leon/WWW are here Thibs will be here.

Thibs is just about to move into a 9 MM pad locally in January.

I would say he has one of the safest jobs in the sport...the only thing when it might get dicey if Dolan fires Leon/WWW...that would be a package deal. If anyone this regime is going to double down more on thibs and more likely to trade more draft capital then tear it down...because thibs isn't a rebuild type of coach.

yep, comes down to how Dolan views the FO. b/c Thibs and Leon/WWW aren't breaking up on their own

[Clyde_Style]

I sincerely doubt Thibs is anywhere near the hot seat

unfortunately not, but based on the direction this team needs to go, Thibs isn't the right coach for the job

Thibs and this FO are tied together. I don't see Leon moving on from him

How patient will Dolan be? I assume Leon sold Dolan on improvement this season, so he'll likely be disappointed when we miss the playoffs. if we miss the play-in game, does that force Dolans hand? IMO as of now, I think Thibs coaches this year and next, but when they fail to live up to last season for 2 years in a row, missing the playoffs, Dolan will then reset w/ a new FO

We are not making the Play-In game. We’re a lottery team

[blueNorange]

all the pro tank crowd acting like the draft pick won't start the season buried behind the depth chart.

between iq, obi, grimes, and mcbride iq plays the most minutes and it's only 20 mpg.

Or acting like they won’t trade the draft pick

it was lost in the shuffle because it was released when the knicks were hot and making a playoff run but the article stated that before the season even started thibs asked to have robinson and rj traded because he didn't want to develop players.

[knickstape4ever]

Things that posted on here that are a waste of time:
1) firing Rose
2) Firing Thibs
3) trading Randle
4) losing enough for a high lottery pick

Things that would help this franchise in the long run:
1) firing Rose
2) Firing Thibs
3) trading Randle
4) losing enough for a high lottery pick