PG: That Sucked

[thebuzzardman]

It's games like this that make me sure the Knicks are pretenders and not contenders.

Whether it's the coaching, the collection of players or whatever, but good teams, even down a top 2 player on the team, don't come out like such total dogsh*t against a bum ass team like the Pistons.

Frankly, it's embarrassing to read the positive posts I made, or anyone has made, after wins, about how great this team is.
Because it just isn't.

Going to kind of keep any enthusiasm I had for the team in check. It's not worth it.

[thebuzzardman]

Tom played Brunson the entire second half, the man is not a great coach no matter how hard some of you try and say he is. He's our Mark Jackson, Dell Harris, Doug Collins, Stan Van Gundy etc, we will never win a title with that man behind the wheel.

How many open 3's in the first quarter to the F*CKING PISTONS?

Thibs can't adjust for sh*t.

Next big Leon move will be kicking Thibs to the curb for the actual next level coach.
Easier said than done. Thibs is good. Just not great. Great is hard to find.

[ctorres]

The risk to injury is one thing but lack of trying something different is a bigger issue to me. Starters were terrible so why not try something different? Give your younger players a chance. Mix and match a little.

At least Hukporti got minutes tonight!

I think Sims gets traded after December 15th. Him playing only the first 6 minutes of the game is very odd.

[thebuzzardman]

Must have been looking ahead to the biggest game of the century coming up on Tuesday.

Move on and let's get that CUP!

Hawks are going to wipe the floor with the Knicks. This team sucks.

[thebuzzardman]

Boston gave up 120 to this very same team just a few nights ago. They let them shoot 20-39 from 3. We gave up 18-36 to them from three. Difference is Boston scored 130 and we scored 111. Boston is also getting torched by Memphis as we speak.

But yes sure it’s Thibs and scheme lmao. If we shoot better and make some free throws, we win even without KAT and our poor defenders.

Then the problem isn't Thibs and it's the talent. Either way the team is mid.

Oh well, maybe next year.

[3toheadmelo]

We should have traded for Donovan Mitchell. Now the cavs are 21-3 far and away the best team in the nba. Discuss

Mitchell, Brunson, Randle would’ve been our version of the Miami big 3!

That team doesn’t win 50 games

Yeah they win 60

[knicks94]

Winning a cup does not erase 50 years of ineptitude.

[HEZI]

The Celtics are 10th defensively, that was with Horford starting, they were 3rd last season. They are a defending champ, they aren't going to blow their load in the regular season, that's what it tells me, and even then, they're still top 10. We have been a top 5 defense one time in the 5 years Tom has been here, and the last 3 years we've been 10th, 19th, 17th. As the threes have been flying his defense has been breaking.

Scheme can help, stop playing in a drop if you don't have the big man to play in a drop We play almost every team the same, it's why we came out in a drop against the Jazz, Hawks, Celtics etc, because we do the same thing against almost everyone, it's boilerplate coaching that doesn't adjust to who we're playing against. You're not about to sell me on the idea our perimeter defenders aren't good enough, sorry but OG and Hart on their own are better than most teams wings, and even with Mikal struggling he's better than the majority of players on defense. Trying to pass this blame off to them and not the coach is wild, first it was KAT that was the target but our defense has sucked while he's out, now it's the wings. How about all the minutes these wings play? They're all in the top 10, but that plays no part in their defense slipping in the 4th?

Tom is not going to lead us to a title, it's pretty obvious by his lack of adjustments. I don't know why people keep defending him.

They are like 13th and couldn’t play any better defense against this same Pistons team than us despite their elite defenders. They can turn it up most likely but they have that luxury yet will still have to prove it this season. So far, they aren’t living up to it. You also can’t put the same expectations on us since our group is still new and their core has been together for years.

You still haven’t fixed the defense you just changed it. Putting lipstick on a pig. You don’t have a big that can drop but he also can’t switch and guard the perimeter. The same big that has struggled with foul trouble for years is going to be defending Cade Cunningham in isolation instead of Jalen Duren. Yeah real smart there, let’s get KAT in foul trouble and give up layups in the process.

Hart and Mikal aren’t elite or even good defenders. You can say Hart is solid but Mikal is terrible. They aren’t better than most teams wings, that’s just the homer in you talking.

Now name me one elite defender that we’ve had over the years before OG arrived? You expecting elite defense from a team that lacks elite defenders? What team has an elite defensive team with a small PG who can’t play defense? You want a switching defense but ignoring the fact that our PG has to be hidden on that end game in game out. Oh but you also don’t want a rim protector because well then that spoils the offense spacing and we can’t beat Boston that way. But you want an elite defensive team basically OG just covering for everybody

The Celtics are playing to get to the playoffs healthy, they have nothing to prove this regular season. We know they can turn it up against teams when they want, because they've done it, they're going to coast to the playoffs, and they are 10th defensively and 3rd in net rating. Their "meh" is still a top 10 defensive team.


No, KAT rates out better on switches than he does in rim protection, so do that. It makes no sense at all to lean into the worst aspect of a player's profile, which is exactly what Tom does. You can call it homer, the stats say Mikal isn't as bad as you're trying to make him seem and it's amazing that his worst defensive season would come with Tom, not his fault though. You're putting down players to prop up Tom for some reason, which makes no sense to me because he's effectively in charge of what they do on defense.



We had IHart, OG and Hart on the team last year, we were 13th in DRTG from the point Randle got hurt with the same exact defensive problems even though Ihart graded out as an elite rim protector. We were giving up threes, sinking down to protect the paint and couldn't stop teams that took a high volume of threes. Our defensive rating in the playoffs was 120.6 which was 2nd to last. How are we getting better perimeter defenders, with an elite rim protector and our defense is getting worse? So Reggie Bullock and Rj are better defenders than Hart and OG? Because that's when we had our best defensive team under Tom, back when teams took under 30 threes a game. Or is the league changing and the scheme hasn't changed to defend against a three point happy league. The playoffs saw an elite rim protector paired with an elite perimeter defender, and our defense sucked, that is the coach.

They have a 111 rating and we have a 114 rating. Yes it’s very meh. Most teams in that top 10 aren’t serious threats and when you look at last season, most of the top 10 rated defenses got bounced out in the 1st or 2nd round and some didn’t even make it to the playoffs. Mavs with a defensive rating of 114 made it to the finals. That’s the same defensive rating the Knicks currently have.

KAT is terrible on switches and to ask him to defend the ball handler up high on a switch play after play game after game is just crazy talk. He’s too vital offensively to put that responsibility on him defensively as a big. That’s certainly not a recipe for success.

Haven’t paid much attention to Bridges when he was in Brooklyn but apparently his defense fell off long before he got here. That’s not on Thibs. Not sure how you have watched him play defense this year and think he’s been good. He has been awful.

There is no IHart to anchor the defense and tell me why aren’t teams who apparently defend the 3 better than we do not having more playoff success than we are? Besides one and that’s the team that won’t the chip with multiple elite defenders on the roster. If what you are complaining about hold true for the Knicks, why is it not providing better results for the rest of the league? A bunch of 1st and 2nd round exits and no playoffs for the majority of them all. Because good offense beats good defense almost every time. Knicks haven’t been all that good offensively over the past few years.

[HEZI]

Boston gave up 120 to this very same team just a few nights ago. They let them shoot 20-39 from 3. We gave up 18-36 to them from three. Difference is Boston scored 130 and we scored 111. Boston is also getting torched by Memphis as we speak.

But yes sure it’s Thibs and scheme lmao. If we shoot better and make some free throws, we win even without KAT and our poor defenders.

Then the problem isn't Thibs and it's the talent. Either way the team is mid.

Oh well, maybe next year.

Defensively the team is very mid. Offensively they have shown they can be very very good. Our success depends on how good we can continue to be offensively

[KnicksGadfly]

We should have traded for Donovan Mitchell. Now the cavs are 21-3 far and away the best team in the nba. Discuss

I should have spent every dollar wasted on Ben & Jerry the previous 3 decades and put it all into bitcoin

That analogy doesn’t work cause that makes the assumption that trading for Mitchell back then was the right move.

Anyway, before we begin any discussion on these things, I think it’s fair to ask everyone to agree to say Brunson is better than those two. Too many people here keep being stubborn and saying Randle or Mitchell are better, and at that point, you can’t really talk with those types of people.

Anyway, once you realize Brunson is better, the argument then comes down to who is a better second option: KAT or Mitchell. None of those guys are better than OG as a third option so I’m not gonna waste too much time debating whether they can all play together. OG can’t be a second option but as a third option, he’s better than all of them. KAT v Mitchell as a partner for Brunson…who do you all have?

Then the third argument would be Randle vs OG and that’s just too easy at this point. Randle’s basically not even a good second option for the Wolves at this point, and if he doesn’t improve his defense, he’s gonna be dropped to sixth man status on a good team.

As for me, I think we’re going to need to revisit Mitchell when he has postseason success, but at this point, he’s had a far more talented team and a lot less success than Brunson. He basically has only a hot streak this season. It’s a bit too much like Randle’s 14-2 January. Okay, yea, that’s impressive, but that’s not a basis for throwing away years of data. Then again, he is ceding more control to Mobley so maybe he is proving he can be a good second option.

Anyway, the Mitchell argument sort of died during the first Knicks vs Cavs playoff series when posters here were crying how they couldn’t wait for the Knicks to lose badly so they could crow about how they were right to trade for Mitchell. And then RJ Barrett outplayed him…you can’t really blame bad coaching for all that. Anyway, bringing this argument back after years of Mitchell failures seems rather shameless. You waited all that time to bring up Mitchell and it was during one regular season hot streak?

[knicks94]

I highly doubt that the Cavs would be 21-3 if Thibs were coaching them.

[spree2kawhi]

Mitchell, Brunson, Randle would’ve been our version of the Miami big 3!

That team doesn’t win 50 games

Yeah they win 60

They wouldn’t share the ball, are too small and their hero ball fails in the postseason. We are good mostly because everyone buys into passing the ball.

[MrDollarBills]

When KAT plays the offense is good enough that we can beat most teams. When he's out, it highlights that our defense ain't **** yet, with or without him.

Yeah, this is my take away. The offense without KAT was not pretty. I'll say that much.

KAT covers up a lot and there's still issues.

Lots of work to be done. Even without KAT this team is too talented to be rag dolled by Detroit and frankly the defense shouldn't be this bad.

[MrDollarBills]

On another note, I'm all aboard the KAT for MVP train.

[NowWHYcee7]

Missing out on Steve Kerr haunts this franchise. We still play down to competition. Thibs still cant handle a simple nba rotation keeping players fresh. 1 pick picks this defense apart. Not defending the 3 as if these guys want to dribble. He relys on playing guys heavy minutes to make it look like he’s good. Foh

Nah

[Fat Kat]

One loss isn’t any kind of referendum on the state of the team, the coach or any individual player. Bad game missing Towns and with Brunson banged up. Let’s see if we can bounce back against the Craptors.

[3toheadmelo]

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[knicks94]

I would like to ask Bridges why he allows players to abuse him on the offensive end.

[Tomato Sauce]

I would like to ask Bridges why he allows players to abuse him on the offensive end.

Maybe if he wasn’t playing 40 mins a game he would have more energy to use on the defensive end

[Guano]

Thibs mismanagement of players minutes strikes again. Only a matter of time before the injuries start piling up. It's honestly one of the dumbest things I've ever seen in pro sports.

We have 2 players in the top 5, 3 in the top 10









People still defend this as though we're the only team dealing with injuries and like we didn't completely fall apart last season.

OG in the top 10 is a fireable offense