Per Shams - Sims traded to MIL for Delon Wright

[j4remi]

I'm not a fan...not a shooter or defender...he's kinda a mid range merchant and is a traffic cone defensively. I would much rather take a shot at Torrey Craig...he can defend and is ok in spot up 3 situations.

Or if a better option hits the buyout market.

I'm not confident about Warren either. He just fits the bill of being big enough to play Forward.

I had fingers crossed that Kyle Anderson would hit waivers after he got dealt to Toronto...but then he didn't get dealt to Toronto after all. I wouldn't mind taking a shot on Craig, but I'm not much more confident in him than Warren. Getting released from a bad Chicago team doesn't give me confidence.

[StlHawksFan]

I'm not a fan...not a shooter or defender...he's kinda a mid range merchant and is a traffic cone defensively. I would much rather take a shot at Torrey Craig...he can defend and is ok in spot up 3 situations.

Or if a better option hits the buyout market.

To be fair, statistically Delon Wright has always been a good defender. Even this year. His DBPM is towards the top of the league for guards. His shot was never great but it's down a lot this year. If he can get back to 35%, he becomes a servicable injury replacement if Deuce or Payne go down.

[GONYK]

What does the FO have against the hardest archetype to acquire outside of acquiring arguably the best 2 in the game?

This would make sense had we not drafted a wing in the 1st to not play him, while passing up on another wing who does get minutes for a team trying to contend in Ryan Dunn. Hell, add Jaylen Wells to the list too, we passed on him multiple times and he's starting for the Grizzlies, and only Bub Carrington has more minutes played from rookies this year. Could've even drafted him in the 2nd but we took Kolek.

wasn't the Dadiet draft pick basically to get him to take less in year 1...and we promised to not stash him...Dunn wouldn't have agreed to that.

Correct, and that is a big factor in why we have KAT without hitting the 2nd apron.

So, as much as I was screaming for Dunn, I understand

[DOT]

What does the FO have against the hardest archetype to acquire outside of acquiring arguably the best 2 in the game?

This would make sense had we not drafted a wing in the 1st to not play him, while passing up on another wing who does get minutes for a team trying to contend in Ryan Dunn. Hell, add Jaylen Wells to the list too, we passed on him multiple times and he's starting for the Grizzlies, and only Bub Carrington has more minutes played from rookies this year. Could've even drafted him in the 2nd but we took Kolek.

wasn't the Dadiet draft pick basically to get him to take less in year 1...and we promised to not stash him...Dunn wouldn't have agreed to that.

I don't get the logic behind this train of thought

If we drafted him only because he would agree to less money in year one, why not just trade the pick and not draft anyone?

You could've traded back to the 2nd round at that point. Unless we did want him, in which case it becomes we didn't draft him for cap reasons, but were able to get him to agree to less while also getting a guy we wanted

Trying to justify taking him as we only drafted him because he'd take less money makes the FO look worse, not better.

[mpharris36]

I'm not a fan...not a shooter or defender...he's kinda a mid range merchant and is a traffic cone defensively. I would much rather take a shot at Torrey Craig...he can defend and is ok in spot up 3 situations.

Or if a better option hits the buyout market.

To be fair, statistically Delon Wright has always been a good defender. Even this year. His DBPM is towards the top of the league for guards. His shot was never great but it's down a lot this year. If he can get back to 35%, he becomes a servicable injury replacement if Deuce or Payne go down.

oh I was talking about TJ Warren not Delon Wright...I know Wright can defend...he's good backup guard insurance...but he's not playing wing for us.

[mpharris36]

This would make sense had we not drafted a wing in the 1st to not play him, while passing up on another wing who does get minutes for a team trying to contend in Ryan Dunn. Hell, add Jaylen Wells to the list too, we passed on him multiple times and he's starting for the Grizzlies, and only Bub Carrington has more minutes played from rookies this year. Could've even drafted him in the 2nd but we took Kolek.

wasn't the Dadiet draft pick basically to get him to take less in year 1...and we promised to not stash him...Dunn wouldn't have agreed to that.

I don't get the logic behind this train of thought

If we drafted him only because he would agree to less money in year one, why not just trade the pick and not draft anyone?

You could've traded back to the 2nd round at that point. Unless we did want him, in which case it becomes we didn't draft him for cap reasons, but were able to get him to agree to less while also getting a guy we wanted

Trying to justify taking him as we only drafted him because he'd take less money makes the FO look worse, not better.

1. I think they liked Dadiet potential even though he wouldn't impact the real club this year probably. He was young and could potentially be a future tradable player as teams value any guy with size that can in theory shoot.

They also needed to roster at least 3 rookies to allow them to acquire KAT and stay under 2nd apron...they were right up against it.

So that is where Dadiet, Kolek, Huk, and McCullers came in.

Basically I think they liked Dadiet...maybe not as much as Dunn but when the offset was being under the 2nd apron with bringing on KAT...I think it was there only option. They could have traded out entirely but I think they legit liked Dadiet enough to pick him under the assumption he would take less year 1.

[DOT]

wasn't the Dadiet draft pick basically to get him to take less in year 1...and we promised to not stash him...Dunn wouldn't have agreed to that.

I don't get the logic behind this train of thought

If we drafted him only because he would agree to less money in year one, why not just trade the pick and not draft anyone?

You could've traded back to the 2nd round at that point. Unless we did want him, in which case it becomes we didn't draft him for cap reasons, but were able to get him to agree to less while also getting a guy we wanted

Trying to justify taking him as we only drafted him because he'd take less money makes the FO look worse, not better.

1. I think they liked Dadiet potential even though he wouldn't impact the real club this year probably. He was young and could potentially be a future tradable player as teams value any guy with size that can in theory shoot.

They also needed to roster at least 3 rookies to allow them to acquire KAT and stay under 2nd apron...they were right up against it.

So that is where Dadiet, Kolek, Huk, and McCullers came in.

Basically I think they liked Dadiet...maybe not as much as Dunn but when the offset was being under the 2nd apron with bringing on KAT...I think it was there only option. They could have traded out entirely but I think they legit liked Dadiet enough to pick him under the assumption he would take less year 1.

Or they picked Dadiet because he was the highest on their board at the time, and then were later able to negotiate with him, with him taking less being a good break for them and not the main intention

I'm being more charitable to them than you are, saying they passed up on better players because they needed to save a few hundred thousand dollars makes them look like morons.

[DOT]

But that still doesn't excuse the fact we passed over multiple guys who are playing right now at the position we're weakest at, while the guy we took is glued to the bench.

[mpharris36]

I don't get the logic behind this train of thought

If we drafted him only because he would agree to less money in year one, why not just trade the pick and not draft anyone?

You could've traded back to the 2nd round at that point. Unless we did want him, in which case it becomes we didn't draft him for cap reasons, but were able to get him to agree to less while also getting a guy we wanted

Trying to justify taking him as we only drafted him because he'd take less money makes the FO look worse, not better.

1. I think they liked Dadiet potential even though he wouldn't impact the real club this year probably. He was young and could potentially be a future tradable player as teams value any guy with size that can in theory shoot.

They also needed to roster at least 3 rookies to allow them to acquire KAT and stay under 2nd apron...they were right up against it.

So that is where Dadiet, Kolek, Huk, and McCullers came in.

Basically I think they liked Dadiet...maybe not as much as Dunn but when the offset was being under the 2nd apron with bringing on KAT...I think it was there only option. They could have traded out entirely but I think they legit liked Dadiet enough to pick him under the assumption he would take less year 1.

Or they picked Dadiet because he was the highest on their board at the time, and then were later able to negotiate with him, with him taking less being a good break for them and not the main intention

I'm being more charitable to them than you are, saying they passed up on better players because they needed to save a few hundred thousand dollars makes them look like morons.

Not really when you are talking the new CBA. Aller is pretty well versed on these things. I say that because reports are we were talking KAT at draft time too. So it just didn't pull the trigger but we knew the financial avenues we need to take after the Mikal trade.

Again the Dadiet to Dunn was on the margins...but it certainly wasn't the risk of costing you the potential of adding KAT.

Not sure you can say that is being a moron...that is simply working under the restrictions of the new CBA.

[DOT]

1. I think they liked Dadiet potential even though he wouldn't impact the real club this year probably. He was young and could potentially be a future tradable player as teams value any guy with size that can in theory shoot.

They also needed to roster at least 3 rookies to allow them to acquire KAT and stay under 2nd apron...they were right up against it.

So that is where Dadiet, Kolek, Huk, and McCullers came in.

Basically I think they liked Dadiet...maybe not as much as Dunn but when the offset was being under the 2nd apron with bringing on KAT...I think it was there only option. They could have traded out entirely but I think they legit liked Dadiet enough to pick him under the assumption he would take less year 1.

Or they picked Dadiet because he was the highest on their board at the time, and then were later able to negotiate with him, with him taking less being a good break for them and not the main intention

I'm being more charitable to them than you are, saying they passed up on better players because they needed to save a few hundred thousand dollars makes them look like morons.

Not really when you are talking the new CBA. Aller is pretty well versed on these things. I say that because reports are we were talking KAT at draft time too. So it just didn't pull the trigger but we knew the financial avenues we need to take after the Mikal trade.

Again the Dadiet to Dunn was on the margins...but it certainly wasn't the risk of costing you the potential of adding KAT.

Not sure you can say that is being a moron...that is simply working under the restrictions of the new CBA.

So Aller is a genius, but wouldn't have been able to find any way to get KAT to work financially without taking a worse player in the draft. There was just no other option than to stay at 25, take a lesser player, and hope he accepts a lesser deal

Got it.

[BKlutch]

To be fair...Shamet's been terrible, so I suppose there's an opportunity for Wright to be better. But this isn't the return I was hoping for in a Sims trade...and all I wanted was a second-round pick or two. I guess Sims was a negative asset after all, so much for the rim protection stats Thibs kept gassing.

Thibs has a history of talking up players who are about to be traded, and hiding the guy who will take his place. He did it with IQ and then later with Grimes —suddenly McBride was better, after getting little burn before.

[Luv those Knicks]

Hugo Besson sucks. Let's not speak of him again.

But he comes from a long line of Euros that we can dream about.

Milos Vujanic
Maciej Lampe
Rokas Jokubaitis
Frank Ntilikina
Slavko Vraneš
Petteri Koponen
Frederick Weiss

Gotta keep the Euro dream alive.

If the same scout is responsible for all these guys, fire that guy ASAP

Almost certainly not, because the guy who pushed the Knicks to draft Weiss was fired shortly after. I don't remember the guys name, but I remember that he got fired.

And some of those players weren't bad picks. 2nd round picks are very hit & miss anyway. Vujanic was briefly valued, like a late first equivalent, though he never came over and NY never took advantage of his value. Lampe was a good pick for where he was drafted. He didn't work out. Frank & Freddy Weiss were obviously mistakes.

Besson reminds me of Jokubaitus. We'll look forward to him in the summer but who knows if he ever comes over. Wait & see I suppose.

[stuporman]

Rose waited too long on Sims, could have gotten Luka

[Luv those Knicks]

Or they picked Dadiet because he was the highest on their board at the time, and then were later able to negotiate with him, with him taking less being a good break for them and not the main intention

I'm being more charitable to them than you are, saying they passed up on better players because they needed to save a few hundred thousand dollars makes them look like morons.

Not really when you are talking the new CBA. Aller is pretty well versed on these things. I say that because reports are we were talking KAT at draft time too. So it just didn't pull the trigger but we knew the financial avenues we need to take after the Mikal trade.

Again the Dadiet to Dunn was on the margins...but it certainly wasn't the risk of costing you the potential of adding KAT.

Not sure you can say that is being a moron...that is simply working under the restrictions of the new CBA.

So Aller is a genius, but wouldn't have been able to find any way to get KAT to work financially without taking a worse player in the draft. There was just no other option than to stay at 25, take a lesser player, and hope he accepts a lesser deal

Got it.

I can't prove this, but I think NY wanted Dadiet to stay in Europe for a year. That's one of the reasons they drafted him. When he refused, they didn't want to lose him so they offered him 80% of the standard value. I think they liked him too. There's no way to know exactly what they were thinking, but I think that they hope he'd stay in Europe and off the books for a year or two is a safe guess.

[GONYK]

I'm not a fan...not a shooter or defender...he's kinda a mid range merchant and is a traffic cone defensively. I would much rather take a shot at Torrey Craig...he can defend and is ok in spot up 3 situations.

Or if a better option hits the buyout market.

I'm not confident about Warren either. He just fits the bill of being big enough to play Forward.

I had fingers crossed that Kyle Anderson would hit waivers after he got dealt to Toronto...but then he didn't get dealt to Toronto after all. I wouldn't mind taking a shot on Craig, but I'm not much more confident in him than Warren. Getting released from a bad Chicago team doesn't give me confidence.

I would take a flyer on either Craig or Duarte and see if the Thibs effect can get some production out of them

[j4remi]

I'm not confident about Warren either. He just fits the bill of being big enough to play Forward.

I had fingers crossed that Kyle Anderson would hit waivers after he got dealt to Toronto...but then he didn't get dealt to Toronto after all. I wouldn't mind taking a shot on Craig, but I'm not much more confident in him than Warren. Getting released from a bad Chicago team doesn't give me confidence.

I would take a flyer on either Craig or Duarte and see if the Thibs effect can get some production out of them

Yeah, I'm at the point of "let's get what we can and hope thibs can get something out of 'em." I just want a decent-sized wing for some depth, and then I'll cross my fingers that Mitch can be healthy by playoff time.

I'm guessing they'll wait to see what shakes loose on the waiver wire, but Duarte would be cool since I was impressed by his rookie year and it's not THAT long ago. But all of Craig, Warren, and Duarte fall in the "beggars can't be choosers" section for me.

So, I'm really hoping some last minute trade creates an unexpected waiver option.

[spree8]

I'm not confident about Warren either. He just fits the bill of being big enough to play Forward.

I had fingers crossed that Kyle Anderson would hit waivers after he got dealt to Toronto...but then he didn't get dealt to Toronto after all. I wouldn't mind taking a shot on Craig, but I'm not much more confident in him than Warren. Getting released from a bad Chicago team doesn't give me confidence.

I would take a flyer on either Craig or Duarte and see if the Thibs effect can get some production out of them

Yeah, I'm at the point of "let's get what we can and hope thibs can get something out of 'em." I just want a decent-sized wing for some depth, and then I'll cross my fingers that Mitch can be healthy by playoff time.

I'm guessing they'll wait to see what shakes loose on the waiver wire, but Duarte would be cool since I was impressed by his rookie year and it's not THAT long ago. But all of Craig, Warren, and Duarte fall in the "beggars can't be choosers" section for me.

So, I'm really hoping some last minute trade creates an unexpected waiver option.

Considering how interested the FO and I think Thibs was in Duarte, I think it’d be a big failure to not go after him and see if Thibs can resuscitate his career.

Craig would be nice, but I think there’s probably gunna be a few teams competing for him given his playoff contributions over the years. Duarte tho? Unlikely.

I wouldn’t be mad at Delon n Duarte plus healthy Mitch going into the playoffs, especially now with Precious coming alive and Huk stepping up. That’s solid depth

[NoDopeOnSundays]

This team is 6 guards, 6 centers and 3 wings basically

What does this front office have against players over 6'7" that aren't frontcourt players?

to be fair outside of finding a true #1 option superstar...there is a dearth of useful two way wings.

That is why OG gets paid what he got paid

Its why Mikal got traded for what he got traded for

Its why Cam Johnson when he gets traded his return will be more than people expect.

Like if your in the 6'6 to 6'9 range and have any skill you probably are pretty damn useful. THe problem is with guys like that most can't either shoot, or they can stretch the floor but they can't defend.

None of this explains why we simply do not go after them in the draft or free agency. Dadiet is the only player they've drafted over 6'6" that is a wing, it's just weird how we always have combo guards that are 6'1" to 6'5".

There have been plenty of wings over the years that we passed on for a guard. They're pretty good at finding those types of players, but they completely punt on arguably the most important archetype in basketball, when OG/Mikal are off the court we look tiny on the perimeter.

[Jalen Bluntson]

1. I think they liked Dadiet potential even though he wouldn't impact the real club this year probably. He was young and could potentially be a future tradable player as teams value any guy with size that can in theory shoot.

They also needed to roster at least 3 rookies to allow them to acquire KAT and stay under 2nd apron...they were right up against it.

So that is where Dadiet, Kolek, Huk, and McCullers came in.

Basically I think they liked Dadiet...maybe not as much as Dunn but when the offset was being under the 2nd apron with bringing on KAT...I think it was there only option. They could have traded out entirely but I think they legit liked Dadiet enough to pick him under the assumption he would take less year 1.

Or they picked Dadiet because he was the highest on their board at the time, and then were later able to negotiate with him, with him taking less being a good break for them and not the main intention

I'm being more charitable to them than you are, saying they passed up on better players because they needed to save a few hundred thousand dollars makes them look like morons.

Not really when you are talking the new CBA. Aller is pretty well versed on these things. I say that because reports are we were talking KAT at draft time too. So it just didn't pull the trigger but we knew the financial avenues we need to take after the Mikal trade.

Again the Dadiet to Dunn was on the margins...but it certainly wasn't the risk of costing you the potential of adding KAT.

Not sure you can say that is being a moron...that is simply working under the restrictions of the new CBA.

They simply could have traded the pick if they needed to save money for a KAT trade.

[mpharris36]

Or they picked Dadiet because he was the highest on their board at the time, and then were later able to negotiate with him, with him taking less being a good break for them and not the main intention

I'm being more charitable to them than you are, saying they passed up on better players because they needed to save a few hundred thousand dollars makes them look like morons.

Not really when you are talking the new CBA. Aller is pretty well versed on these things. I say that because reports are we were talking KAT at draft time too. So it just didn't pull the trigger but we knew the financial avenues we need to take after the Mikal trade.

Again the Dadiet to Dunn was on the margins...but it certainly wasn't the risk of costing you the potential of adding KAT.

Not sure you can say that is being a moron...that is simply working under the restrictions of the new CBA.

So Aller is a genius, but wouldn't have been able to find any way to get KAT to work financially without taking a worse player in the draft. There was just no other option than to stay at 25, take a lesser player, and hope he accepts a lesser deal

Got it.

basically that is what I'm saying. The CBA is pretty ruthless where people make financial decisions on potentially lesser players all the time. We had two avenues to get KAT without blowing up our core....Randle + Mitch or Randle + DD. Since Minny didn't want an injured Mitch our only avenue was Randle + DD. And we knew the tight financial constraints that came with it that trade on what it would do the rest of the roster.

So saying someone is a moron for understanding the situation and making a decision is not fair. You can say you would have preferred an alternative route...or maybe you didnt' want to do the KAT trade all together.


You can see our financial situation right now...I'm sure they want to add a player but they have to wait until a certain amount of time to have a vet adj salary to fit into the roster. I mean there wasn't much wiggle room of the 80% his rookie salary.

Also Dunn is Dunn..he can defend but he also can't shoot. barely over 30% from 3 and under 50% from the line. Not even sure how much impact he would be having since he kills the suns spacing. Sure you could probably throw him in sparingly in defensive situations. But suns NET ratings would suggest the defense currently doesn't outweight his terrible offense.