PG: Thibs B Gone

[robillionaire]

we're stuck from being able to get another star here. yes. you're not getting giannis for kat. you can probably get durant who probably has 1 good year left in him. yay. lol

unless you're still lying to yourself that a brunson/kat duo is gonna be ever good enough to win a championship. it's not. no coach can change that.

You also weren't getting Giannis for our 5 picks and Randle either (you know how many teams could top that offer). Stop overrating those picks.

I don’t think you realize how valuable picks are. We could’ve gotten Donovan Mitchell with less than what we gave up Mikal for. Teams want picks. Instead we gave up a superstar haul for a mid role player.

We probably traded them at the wrong time. Our picks were more valuable around the Donovan non-trade time because we’d just missed the playoffs. We instead traded them coming off a 2 seed when the expectation is they won’t be very good. But yeah both of those moves are looking bad in hindsight unless we can bring in the Mikal whisperer as head coach and somehow make him a good player

[3toheadmelo]

I don't agree Woj reported they wanted RJ and Grimes + 3 unprotected picks (and they were going to be our later picks) not the 2025 picks we gave up that aren't valuable. Knicks were willing to give up IQ in the deal and RJ and IQ netted OG by themselves which TOR was turning down 3 1st round picks to give.

So do the math 3 1st rounders value on OG and they wanted 3 1st rounders on top of that and that is 6 1st rounders for Mitchell.

Huh? We gave up a bunch of later picks for Mikalikina.

unprotected 1st-round pick in 2029
unprotected 1st-round pick in 2031
unprotected pick swap in 2028

You only give up those picks if its for an absolute star,

RJ + Grimes and 3 first round picks for Donovan Mitchell is an absolute steal. It made no sense to turn that down and then give up a bigger haul for a much much worse player.

Woj said they Knicks at the time valued Grimes more than IQ...IQ and RJ was valued at 3 1st round picks because we got OG for those two. And TOR was requiring 3 1st round picks to move OG which was reported.

Thats is 6 1st round picks. And the yes we gave up some late 1st for Mikal...we also gave up a couple nothing firsts like our 2025 and MIL 2025. I'm not having this convo again...we agree to disagree. I can argue we would be in the same position with Brunson and Mitchell as our 1-2...BOS would just get Brunson or Mitchell on switches with there bigger wings and take us apart. We tried to combat that with defensive wings like OG and Mikal...I can't blame them for trying.

I still would like to see this roster with a modern coach before I panic and want to get rid of everyone.

Idk why you keep saying OG has something to do with Donovan Mitchell. I would rather lose out on OG if it meant getting a real star in Donovan Mitchell. This is a stars league at the end of the day. You can find 3 and D players anywhere.

Cleveland has been thriving with two small guards. That argument never really made sense and it’s been debunked, plus Brunson is way better than Garland.

There’s no coach that’s gonna fix this roster

[god shammgod]

then you not understanding the CBA...you just can't wait...if you don't turn expiring deals into continues contracts you lose players like you did with Ihart and then not able to bring them back. CBA basically requires action to roll over contracts or you lose them. You can't wait anymore as an over the cap team.

nonsense. you can trade guys for other guys with slighter longer contracts and maintain flexibility until the right offer comes around.

so trade for worse players during Brunson prime? They admitted they weren't willing to take a step back because they wanted to try and cash in on Brunsons prime and contract situation. Did you want to start really going for it when Brunson was 30 years old?

if you had to. because guess what, they're not actually in a position to go for it now. but they paid the price like they are.

[3toheadmelo]

guys can't shoot...thibs
guys can't defend...thibs
guys can't dribble without tripping over their own feet....thibs

this is not analysis. lol

People don’t even talk ball anymore it’s just blaming Thibs for everything

i have hardly been here this year and it's 9 out of every 10 posts since i've been back. i can't wait until they fire him just so i can stop reading it.

It’s going to be hilarious when we fire Thibs and we’re still mid

[Spree2Houston]

you do...you can easily move contracts if it gets really bad. KAT an all-star starter is now unmovable? Mikal a two way wing (which are always in high demand) on a good contract unmovable?

come on now.

They aren't going to break it up this offseason...the first thing to go will be the coach since he's seriously struggling to adjust and get the most out of this roster...but this idea we are stuck is comical. They had deadline on some contracts that were coming up...that is where you would get stuck if you didn't act soon and lose guys for nothing.

Ultimately this team will be judged in the playoffs...no one really cares about these losses its just a talking point right now. If they underperform in playoffs thibs will be gone...if they underperform the following year then roster changes will be made. That is just how it works.

we're stuck from being able to get another star here. yes. you're not getting giannis for kat. you can probably get durant who probably has 1 good year left in him. yay. lol

unless you're still lying to yourself that a brunson/kat duo is gonna be ever good enough to win a championship. it's not. no coach can change that.

You also weren't getting Giannis for our 5 picks and Randle either (you know how many teams could top that offer). Stop overrating those picks.

The funny thing is if we drafted the players that fell to us in prior drafts ( Duren, Jalen Johnson, etc) then we wouldn’t have needed to trade 5 picks for a guy like Bridges who isn’t even better than Jalen Johnson or Duren. I’m naming these 2 as examples but there’s other players that could’ve been drafted that became better players than Bridges. We still would’ve traded for KAT but we would’ve had our future picks to acquire another player.

[robillionaire]

guys can't shoot...thibs
guys can't defend...thibs
guys can't dribble without tripping over their own feet....thibs

this is not analysis. lol

People don’t even talk ball anymore it’s just blaming Thibs for everything

i have hardly been here this year and it's 9 out of every 10 posts since i've been back. i can't wait until they fire him just so i can stop reading it.

I expect severe amnesia when he’s gone next year and we still aren’t winning the championship

[robillionaire]

People don’t even talk ball anymore it’s just blaming Thibs for everything

i have hardly been here this year and it's 9 out of every 10 posts since i've been back. i can't wait until they fire him just so i can stop reading it.

It’s going to be hilarious when we fire Thibs and we’re still mid

Well if you recall we were told once Randle was gone we’d have this incredible ball movement and everything was his fault and now we can’t score 90 points against the hornets. All the usual suspects

[spree2kawhi]

which considering after a season they lost both there big men...ihart out of there control (and you see what he's doing in OKC) and Mitch basically the entire season due to injury its actually not bad.

crazy to actually think where they would be by losing both big men (out of there control) and made no moves. Play-in territory?

I'm not even going to bring up my issues with Thibs in this discussion. But they lost there entire identity and big man rotation. I think you are understating how difficult it was going to win with losing both Ihart/Mitch. And now they are struggling with you guessed it there best player injured.

it is bad. because now you don't have any easy avenues to improve. yes, they would have been better off taking a step back this year if they had to. sometimes you have to do things like that because you know it's better for the future.

you do...you can easily move contracts if it gets really bad. KAT an all-star starter is now unmovable? Mikal a two way wing (which are always in high demand) on a good contract unmovable?

come on now.

They aren't going to break it up this offseason...the first thing to go will be the coach since he's seriously struggling to adjust and get the most out of this roster...but this idea we are stuck is comical. They had deadline on some contracts that were coming up...that is where you would get stuck if you didn't act soon and lose guys for nothing.

Ultimately this team will be judged in the playoffs...no one really cares about these losses its just a talking point right now. If they underperform in playoffs thibs will be gone...if they underperform the following year then roster changes will be made. That is just how it works.

Dudes are overreacting. I would’ve expected it from some usual suspects, but not that many. After all, this team is loaded with top of the shelf talent at basically every position and then some. You can always spin it certain ways if you’re falling short and dislike the product or have unrealistic expectations. This is an entirely new team in year 1 though, and it will look a lot better even without too many adjustments.

[god shammgod]

and don't get it wrong, these 2 bad losses don't really mean much. and if they play the double big lineup a lot they should be a slightly better team and it'll fix a few of the multiple issues. but they still aint gonna win it all. the absolute best thing that happened to the knicks this season is that the celtics just got sold to an investment group that may cut payroll and may have to let some guys go. that's what we have to hope for. and that the notoriously cheap okc thunder owner also forces them to let some guys go as their contracts come up for raises. that's the hope we have.

[Context]

I know you guys have been arguing all night and all morning...plus I just got here today BUT...
I think I can speak from a rational and detached point of view.
Prior to December of 2023- I had not watched almost any Knick ball since Mitch's (2018)draft year. Yet, I was following hundreds of players throughout the league due to my participation in BAF.

My takes from what I've seen bring me to a simple conclusion.

It's time for the Knicks to either acquire a offensive modern assistant coach or move on from Thibs entirely.

In the beginning of this season the Knicks offenses showed you offensive dominance. Unfortunately, the combination
of Thibs running the starters into the ground via minutes, not playing the bench enough to develop consistency and chemistry-
caught up to us. This is not even debatable. We saw Hart's public confrontation with Thibs and we know for certain that Mikal
had a talk with Thibs about this very point. Not to mention, earlier in the season- two hall of famers that played for Thibs (Pierce
and KG) acknowledged that this is what Thibs does- and voiced that too many minutes in this era of pace is not sustainable for any player...

Compound this with what we witnessed last year via our team essentially being "injury-decimated" OUT of the the series against an inferior Indiana.

The Knicks are too predictable on offense and don't have the energy to play elite defense consistently. The also whine too much about
foul calls- especially Kat. We need new leadership.

And finally, even in a worse case- our main assets have proven themselves to have value so even if we wanted to move them we could.

Playing in a troubled situation does not equal to being a terrible player.

[MrDollarBills]

So if Thibs isn't apart of the problem, what is he doing to help this team? Serious question.

We literally got blown out by an 18 win team last night. What is Thibs doing to help the situation? Is he putting the players in a position to succeed consistently? If so, please provide examples because I don't see it.

Either way, last night was a huge red flag that something is seriously wrong behind the scenes.

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

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The vibes are off Folkssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MrDollarBills]

Read on Twitter

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The vibes are off Folkssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If this doesn't turn around ASAP, there is a very high chance that a first rd match up versus a good Detroit team could send us home early.

Right now I don't see any way we beat them looking like this. Back to back blowouts against lottery teams is really bad.

[robillionaire]

and don't get it wrong, these 2 bad losses don't really mean much. and if they play the double big lineup a lot they should be a better team and it'll fix a few of the multiple issues. but they still aint gonna win it all. the absolute best thing that happened to the knicks this season is that the celtics just got sold to an investment group that may cut payroll and may have to let some guys go. that's what we have to hope for. and that the notoriously cheap okc thunder owner also forces them to let some guys go as their contracts come up for raises. that's the hope we have.

We don’t need to worry about any western conference teams at all because that implies we are going to the finals and in that scenario I’ll take whatever odds we get because our team must be very good to get that far. The Thunder haven’t even been out of the 2nd round yet so pump the brakes on them. Probably should be more worried about the Lakers after they build around Luka

if things don’t turn around soon maybe it’s time to make a last gasp gamble on a guy like Zion or Lamelo or someone talented who is on a struggling team. Nobody on the roster is untouchable. I’m actually being serious

[Enzo954]

i have hardly been here this year and it's 9 out of every 10 posts since i've been back. i can't wait until they fire him just so i can stop reading it.

It’s going to be hilarious when we fire Thibs and we’re still mid

Well if you recall we were told once Randle was gone we’d have this incredible ball movement and everything was his fault and now we can’t score 90 points against the hornets. All the usual suspects

Were you really willing to keep Randle and pay that guy the money he was going to demand? Get real!

[robillionaire]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

The vibes are off Folkssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If this doesn't turn around ASAP, there is a very high chance that a first rd match up versus a good Detroit team could send us home early.

Right now I don't see any way we beat them looking like this. Back to back blowouts against lottery teams is really bad.

This is all shorthand for “if Brunson doesn’t come back(at 100%) because clearly it’s a night and day difference of what this team is with him gone. Plus the drop off from him to our backup guards (deuce isn’t even a real PG and scam Payne) is insane. And please nobody bring up the rookie g leaguer like he’s gonna save the season

[robillionaire]

It’s going to be hilarious when we fire Thibs and we’re still mid

Well if you recall we were told once Randle was gone we’d have this incredible ball movement and everything was his fault and now we can’t score 90 points against the hornets. All the usual suspects

Were you really willing to keep Randle and pay that guy the money he was going to demand? Get real!

No, but this is kinda avoiding the point, which is that his play was exclusively blamed for all our ills for years

That has now seamlessly transitioned to this year’s designated scapegoat in the coach . Idk who it will be next year. Find out on the next exciting episode of dragon ball z

[god shammgod]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

The vibes are off Folkssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If this doesn't turn around ASAP, there is a very high chance that a first rd match up versus a good Detroit team could send us home early.

Right now I don't see any way we beat them looking like this. Back to back blowouts against lottery teams is really bad.

This is all shorthand for “if Brunson doesn’t come back(at 100%) because clearly it’s a night and day difference of what this team is with him gone. Plus the drop off from him to our backup guards (deuce isn’t even a real PG and scam Payne) is insane. And please nobody bring up the rookie g leaguer like he’s gonna save the season

thank you. whole board clamoring for this poor man's jimmer fredette ass motherf*cker every game like that's the answer.

[robillionaire]

If this doesn't turn around ASAP, there is a very high chance that a first rd match up versus a good Detroit team could send us home early.

Right now I don't see any way we beat them looking like this. Back to back blowouts against lottery teams is really bad.

This is all shorthand for “if Brunson doesn’t come back(at 100%) because clearly it’s a night and day difference of what this team is with him gone. Plus the drop off from him to our backup guards (deuce isn’t even a real PG and scam Payne) is insane. And please nobody bring up the rookie g leaguer like he’s gonna save the season

thank you. whole board clamoring for this poor man's jimmer fredette ass motherf*cker every game like that's the answer.

Folks acting like we are hiding MVP year steve Nash at the end of the bench

I actually don’t disagree that he could play some because our bench is that bad. I think I’d throw him out there over Payne or Shamet at this point. But if we are hoping for a rookie who has never played meaningful minutes in an nba game to be the difference maker from getting blown out by 20 by the hornets to being a championship team idk maybe the roster has a big problem somewhere

[robillionaire]

Jimmer actually flashed an insane talent level that’s why he was a top 10 pick. This is a Ron baker situation