2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!)

[SARGO127]

Klay Thompson is another guy...Looks like Allan Houston.

[moocow007]

Klay Thompson is another guy...Looks like Allan Houston.

Marshon Brooks...This kid looks like Kobe-lite...and has a 7'2 wingspan for a SG. Lockdown defender.

I'm not even going to go there after what happened earlier.

[captain subtext]

I'm starting to feel like Jimmer's defensive problems get way overblown. If you can overlook those kinds of shortcomings in a player then it's at the PG position.

Let's be honest here, there is not a single player in the league that can defend Rose, Westbrook or Paul anyway. The two teams leading their series right now are starting Mike Bibby and Jason Kidd. I refuse to believe that Jimmer is worse one on one than those two. You have to have a scheme in place to cover for individual weakness (it's how Chicago works around Rose and Boozer).

Everything I hear about the guy makes me want to have him on my team. I won't cry my eyes out if he goes before we pick, but the draft would have a sour taste if we pass on him at #17. (probably wouldn't happen anyway)

[Falstaffxx]

I don't want either of the Morrises, because whichever one we get people will be bitches about how the other one is better. It'll be like Gallo vs. Gordon except worse.

[Falstaffxx]

I'm starting to feel like Jimmer's defensive problems get way overblown. If you can overlook those kinds of shortcomings in a player then it's at the PG position.

Let's be honest here, there is not a single player in the league that can defend Rose, Westbrook or Paul anyway. The two teams leading their series right now are starting Mike Bibby and Jason Kidd. I refuse to believe that Jimmer is worse one on one than those two. You have to have a scheme in place to cover for individual weakness (it's how Chicago works around Rose and Boozer).

Everything I hear about the guy makes me want to have him on my team. I won't cry my eyes out if he goes before we pick, but the draft would have a sour taste if we pass on him at #17. (probably wouldn't happen anyway)

Yeah, we wouldn't pass on him at 17, but it's sounding as if he'll be long gone by then. Everyone seems impressed by him, and the hype train is rolling.

[Manhattan Project]

What the hell am I walking into...

Neither Thompson or Brooks are going to wow you with athleticism, if anything both rely more on craftiness. For Thompson that's a bit odd considering who his daddy was.

Neither guy will ever really have to create for themselves, so in that regard your looking for the better shooter. Both are essentially great outside shooters, Klay probably does a better job in regards of playing within himself and understands his role. Brooks will have a lot more adjusting to do when he gets drafted, from going from the man to a non option.

I honestly can't see how you can go wrong with either player.

[moocow007]

:lol: What the hell am I walking into...

Someone decided that he couldn't stop when I told him to stop, so much like a 3 year old I had to give him a time out. You know and there's a way to discuss that but that didn't happen. It's funny that I've been getting into heated debates with people here for years (fuller, seren, bNo when he first started, Knicks1714, etc...heck JazzFu and I used to go at it like crazy) and I've never had to suspend any resident long term Knick fan here because of it...until now.

Neither Thompson or Brooks are going to wow you with athleticism, if anything both rely more on craftiness. For Thompson that's a bit odd considering who his daddy was.

Neither guy will ever really have to create for themselves, so in that regard your looking for the better shooter. Both are essentially great outside shooters, Klay probably does a better job in regards of playing within himself and understands his role. Brooks will have a lot more adjusting to do when he gets drafted, from going from the man to a non option.

I honestly can't see how you can go wrong with either player.

Probably. Brooks is more dynamic a player. Thompson more specifically skilled in shooting. Two different types of players that could fill needs. Thompson in the more traditional shooting and extending the floor to prevent defenses from collapsing on Melo and Amare. Brooks in terms of having a more diverse all around offensive game.

[Manhattan Project]

Probably. Brooks is more dynamic a player. Thompson more specifically skilled in shooting. Two different types of players that could fill needs. Thompson in the more traditional shooting and extending the floor to prevent defenses from collapsing on Melo and Amare. Brooks in terms of having a more diverse all around offensive game.

The thing with Brooks is that he has proven he can score the ball and create for himself, obviously he had to do that all year long. We never really got to see him create for himself without the ball, but he has shown the moves that he could get open through screens/curls and what not. He is very good with changing pace, misdirections and what not.

You figure in a Knicks situation you will have Melo and Amar'e somewhere near the elbow, one guy down low and the two others on the perimeter. One elbow and one wing lets say. We do have a tendency to become stagnant and this is where I do believe that Brooks can really help. Thompson does have a quick release and a nice one at that, he has worked a lot with coming off screens. Thompson is better with the ball in his hands though it's not something to go gaga over. He is the better defender and there is a reason why he is ranked higher than Brooks.

Brooks offensive game is more diverse, but that can also hurt him at times. Brooks would take some bad shots, but again he was that team. Thompson from all accounts did a much better job with that this year.

I mean if both are there, I'm going Thompson but if we did pick Brooks I would be happy. All I know is that I want more picks at the end of the day.

[moocow007]

I'm starting to feel like Jimmer's defensive problems get way overblown. If you can overlook those kinds of shortcomings in a player then it's at the PG position.

Let's be honest here, there is not a single player in the league that can defend Rose, Westbrook or Paul anyway. The two teams leading their series right now are starting Mike Bibby and Jason Kidd. I refuse to believe that Jimmer is worse one on one than those two. You have to have a scheme in place to cover for individual weakness (it's how Chicago works around Rose and Boozer).

Everything I hear about the guy makes me want to have him on my team. I won't cry my eyes out if he goes before we pick, but the draft would have a sour taste if we pass on him at #17. (probably wouldn't happen anyway)

Haven't checked on his combine drill numbers but he did seem a bit slow when they showed the PG's doing shuttle runs. But yeah I don't think we should get carried away with his defense. It's almost like he's the only guy that doesn't defend by the way it's being portrayed. One reason his defense in particular is being made a big deal is because of how good he's supposed to be and is on the other side of the ball. Of course his defense isn't going to be what earns him that next contract that he has said is more important than his rookie contract but, yeah.

[The Black Death]

What do yall think about Jeremy Tyler? Been sort of following him a little bit since he decided to make the moronic decision of skipping his senior year of high school to play overseas, where he continued to make moronic decisions and quit on his team.

Apparently he's grown up since then, played in Japan for a while under Bob Hill before mother nature crapped on their season.

He was the top HS prospect a couple years ago. Big, athletic, 6'11 260. He says he doesn't regret the decision and that he's grown up a lot and feels what he went through made him a better player, better than he would have been if he had went to college for one year (not sure about all that).

I'm sure his immaturity will follow him for a while, but I think he has a lot of potential.

[moocow007]

Probably. Brooks is more dynamic a player. Thompson more specifically skilled in shooting. Two different types of players that could fill needs. Thompson in the more traditional shooting and extending the floor to prevent defenses from collapsing on Melo and Amare. Brooks in terms of having a more diverse all around offensive game.

The thing with Brooks is that he has proven he can score the ball and create for himself, obviously he had to do that all year long. We never really got to see him create for himself without the ball, but he has shown the moves that he could get open through screens/curls and what not. He is very good with changing pace, misdirections and what not.

You figure in a Knicks situation you will have Melo and Amar'e somewhere near the elbow, one guy down low and the two others on the perimeter. One elbow and one wing lets say. We do have a tendency to become stagnant and this is where I do believe that Brooks can really help. Thompson does have a quick release and a nice one at that, he has worked a lot with coming off screens. Thompson is better with the ball in his hands though it's not something to go gaga over. He is the better defender and there is a reason why he is ranked higher than Brooks.

Brooks offensive game is more diverse, but that can also hurt him at times. Brooks would take some bad shots, but again he was that team. Thompson from all accounts did a much better job with that this year.

I mean if both are there, I'm going Thompson but if we did pick Brooks I would be happy. All I know is that I want more picks at the end of the day.

Yes...and all it would have taken was this to be said.

[Marty McFly]

i think some posters are forgetting that we're picking at 17. we're not in the lotto so its not as if taking a high reward talent like brooks is gonna set you back years. how can you not look at his offensive repertoire and his wingspan and not think, with a little work, in the right situation, he can be a really amazing player. if he was younger, he'd be in the lottery, easily.


as far as jimmer, i don't want to get to hung up on him cause i know he's gonna be a player.

[Manhattan Project]

What do yall think about Jeremy Tyler? Been sort of following him a little bit since he decided to make the moronic decision of skipping his senior year of high school to play overseas, where he continued to make moronic decisions and quit on his team.

Apparently he's grown up since then, played in Japan for a while under Bob Hill before mother nature crapped on their season.

He was the top HS prospect a couple years ago. Big, athletic, 6'11 260. He says he doesn't regret the decision and that he's grown up a lot and feels what he went through made him a better player, better than he would have been if he had went to college for one year (not sure about all that).

I'm sure his immaturity will follow him for a while, but I think he has a lot of potential.

I'm not going to knock a kid for going overseas and wanting to earn money. In the last ESPN magazine there was a player X column that was very good, here is a small part of it.

But the biggest reason for what will be mass defections to foreign leagues is what that will provide to our game. Let me tell you American basketball's dirty little secret: our coaches are terrible. And not just in the NBA. Coaches across the whole game stink - high school, AAU, college. They've grown fat on our natural athletic abilities, and they've gotten lazy. Nobody coaches fundamentals anymore. We might as well rename the NBA the AABA: African-American Basketball Association (I'm black, by the way). It's basically a very talented street-ball league. Americans simply can't dribble, pass, work the post, or shoot the rock as well as our foreign counterparts like Dirk Nowitzki. And their coaches get the credit for that.

Overseas, coaches still drill their players in the fundamentals and teach them how to play the game. A guy like the Pistons' Chris Wilcox - who can barely dribble or shoot after all these years - simply wouldn't slip through the cracks over there. Had he grown up in Europe, Wilcox, with his size and athleticism, would be a serious force. Players are beginning to realize that if they go overseas, even for a season, they'll come back with more skills, and that translates into greater success and better contracts here.

Tyler going overseas can be looked at as stupid, but he did get some great value in it as well. Switching countries didn't help at all, but us over here really don't know what the hell it was all about. Tyler was considered the number one prospect for a reason and going overseas probably gave him a wake up experience. I don't see why his value should drop drastically, but we do have little to go on as fans. The scouts have the game film and what not, so they know better.

I do think he will go late first/early second when it's all said and done. However I just don't see a fit on this team.

[Rasho Brezec]

I'm sounding like a broken record now, but Jeremy Tyler is an average athlete at best. These are his numbers from last year's Adidas Eurocamp:

Code: Select all

No Step Vert          No Step Vert Reach       Max Vert       Max Vert Reach
27.2                  11' 5.83"                33.1           11' 11.73"


Now go compare those numbers with some of the other C's:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-dra ... ll&sort=10

Almost exact same numbers as Brook Lopez, except Brook's no step vertical reach is better.

[Marty McFly]

I'm starting to feel like Jimmer's defensive problems get way overblown. If you can overlook those kinds of shortcomings in a player then it's at the PG position.

Let's be honest here, there is not a single player in the league that can defend Rose, Westbrook or Paul anyway. The two teams leading their series right now are starting Mike Bibby and Jason Kidd. I refuse to believe that Jimmer is worse one on one than those two. You have to have a scheme in place to cover for individual weakness (it's how Chicago works around Rose and Boozer).

Everything I hear about the guy makes me want to have him on my team. I won't cry my eyes out if he goes before we pick, but the draft would have a sour taste if we pass on him at #17. (probably wouldn't happen anyway)

I'm not sure if it was mags or mp that went on tirade about jimmer earlier, but he(which ever one, i forget sorry fellas ) was right. I'm not sure if he has the vision yet to be nash 2.0, (to be honest, I'm not sure if nash was known to have great vision coming out of santa clara) but he's got every thing else. the j, the handle and the **** d.

i don't think jimmer falls to us though.

if i could i'd trade douglas and the 17th for him though.

[Rasho Brezec]

What do yall think about Jeremy Tyler? Been sort of following him a little bit since he decided to make the moronic decision of skipping his senior year of high school to play overseas, where he continued to make moronic decisions and quit on his team.

Apparently he's grown up since then, played in Japan for a while under Bob Hill before mother nature crapped on their season.

He was the top HS prospect a couple years ago. Big, athletic, 6'11 260. He says he doesn't regret the decision and that he's grown up a lot and feels what he went through made him a better player, better than he would have been if he had went to college for one year (not sure about all that).

I'm sure his immaturity will follow him for a while, but I think he has a lot of potential.

I'm not going to knock a kid for going overseas and wanting to earn money. In the last ESPN magazine there was a player X column that was very good, here is a small part of it.

But the biggest reason for what will be mass defections to foreign leagues is what that will provide to our game. Let me tell you American basketball's dirty little secret: our coaches are terrible. And not just in the NBA. Coaches across the whole game stink - high school, AAU, college. They've grown fat on our natural athletic abilities, and they've gotten lazy. Nobody coaches fundamentals anymore. We might as well rename the NBA the AABA: African-American Basketball Association (I'm black, by the way). It's basically a very talented street-ball league. Americans simply can't dribble, pass, work the post, or shoot the rock as well as our foreign counterparts like Dirk Nowitzki. And their coaches get the credit for that.

Overseas, coaches still drill their players in the fundamentals and teach them how to play the game. A guy like the Pistons' Chris Wilcox - who can barely dribble or shoot after all these years - simply wouldn't slip through the cracks over there. Had he grown up in Europe, Wilcox, with his size and athleticism, would be a serious force. Players are beginning to realize that if they go overseas, even for a season, they'll come back with more skills, and that translates into greater success and better contracts here.

Tyler going overseas can be looked at as stupid, but he did get some great value in it as well. Switching countries didn't help at all, but us over here really don't know what the hell it was all about. Tyler was considered the number one prospect for a reason and going overseas probably gave him a wake up experience. I don't see why his value should drop drastically, but we do have little to go on as fans. The scouts have the game film and what not, so they know better.

I do think he will go late first/early second when it's all said and done. However I just don't see a fit on this team.

I seriously doubt he learned anything worthwhile. He played 10 games with around 8 minutes per game in a poor Israeli league on a slightly above average team by their standards before he quit on them. Then he went to play in Japan. That's something washed up NBA players who can't stay on a team do, not young prospects who need serious development.

[seren]

I seriously doubt he learned anything worthwhile. He played 10 games with around 8 minutes per game in a poor Israeli league on a slightly above average team by their standards before he quit on them. Then he went to play in Japan. That's something washed up NBA players who can't stay on a team do, not young prospects who need serious development.

He played under Bob Hill in Japan. I am sure that should have helped Tyler a bit.

[Pharmcat]

MEM rejected tpe and #4 for gay

per givony via the GB thread i saw

[Manhattan Project]

MEM rejected tpe and #4 for gay

per givony via the GB thread i saw

Very sound offer, but see no reason for Memphis. It appears that there willing to spend money to keep that team together so why bother dumping Gay?

For the Cavs it gets them a legit scorer to team up with Irving.

[Fury]

If Derrick Williams drops, the Grizzlies should think about that trade because they can save money and add a good prospect.