2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1)

[TheScout31]

I'm not really worried about the defense. I think he will surprise on that end the way his brother did. The concern there is effort-based. To me the biggest concern is his shot. Particularly if drafted by the Knicks considering the current toster is devoid of real shooters.

His brother was always a good defender, whereas LaMelo was always a sieve.

Lonzo had concerns about his defense in high school and while in college. Until he got to the NBA and proved he could be an impact level defender when locked in.

"On the defensive side of the court, Ball is adept at forcing turnovers, but he does not have the overall impact that his physical tools would suggest … Ball struggles at times containing dribble penetration against quicker guards, which was particularly exposed against De’Aaron Fox, who exploded for 39 points against him in the NCAA Tournament … Ball also does not have great awareness when being screened, and he also could show more consistent effort to fight through screens and recover "

Scouting report ^

Yeah, no. We can keep going back and forth on this (I’d prefer we didn’t, to be honest), but Ball’s defense in college was a big calling card of his - off ball defense was tremendous. LaMelo is crap all over the court on defense.

NBADraft.net is crap, too.

[DOT]

His brother was always a good defender, whereas LaMelo was always a sieve.

Lonzo had concerns about his defense in high school and while in college. Until he got to the NBA and proved he could be an impact level defender when locked in.

"On the defensive side of the court, Ball is adept at forcing turnovers, but he does not have the overall impact that his physical tools would suggest … Ball struggles at times containing dribble penetration against quicker guards, which was particularly exposed against De’Aaron Fox, who exploded for 39 points against him in the NCAA Tournament … Ball also does not have great awareness when being screened, and he also could show more consistent effort to fight through screens and recover "

Scouting report ^

Yeah, no. We can keep going back and forth on this (I’d prefer we didn’t, to be honest), but Ball’s defense in college was a big calling card of his - off ball defense was tremendous. LaMelo is crap all over the court on defense.

NBADraft.net is crap, too.

[2010]

His brother was always a good defender, whereas LaMelo was always a sieve.

Lonzo had concerns about his defense in high school and while in college. Until he got to the NBA and proved he could be an impact level defender when locked in.

"On the defensive side of the court, Ball is adept at forcing turnovers, but he does not have the overall impact that his physical tools would suggest … Ball struggles at times containing dribble penetration against quicker guards, which was particularly exposed against De’Aaron Fox, who exploded for 39 points against him in the NCAA Tournament … Ball also does not have great awareness when being screened, and he also could show more consistent effort to fight through screens and recover "

Scouting report ^

Yeah, no. We can keep going back and forth on this (I’d prefer we didn’t, to be honest), but Ball’s defense in college was a big calling card of his - off ball defense was tremendous. LaMelo is crap all over the court on defense.

NBADraft.net is crap, too.

Say what you want about the site but that excerpt was accurate at the time. Did Lonzo not get absolutely cooked by Fox?

Back to LaMelo. In high school and his brief stint in Lithuania, defense just wasn't demanded of him. But he has quick hands, the ability to play the passing lanes for steals and deflections, and has shown defensive potential in spurts. As a pro, if he buys in and defensive discipline is a point of emphasis, I would not be surprised if he turns out to be a plus defender. With him it's basically an effort issue and being more disciplined and mentally locked in. He has the physical tools.

[3toheadmelo]

I don’t recall Lonzo being a good defender in college

[robillionaire]

Lonzo had concerns about his defense in high school and while in college. Until he got to the NBA and proved he could be an impact level defender when locked in.



Scouting report ^

Yeah, no. We can keep going back and forth on this (I’d prefer we didn’t, to be honest), but Ball’s defense in college was a big calling card of his - off ball defense was tremendous. LaMelo is crap all over the court on defense.

NBADraft.net is crap, too.

Say what you want about the site but that excerpt was accurate at the time. Did Lonzo not get absolutely cooked by Fox?

Back to LaMelo. In high school and his brief stint in Lithuania, defense just wasn't demanded of him. But he has quick hands, the ability to play the passing lanes for steals and deflections, and has shown defensive potential in spurts. As a pro, if he buys in and defensive discipline is a point of emphasis, I would not be surprised if he turns out to be a plus defender. With him it's basically an effort issue and being more disciplined and mentally locked in. He has the physical tools.

Anybody know what his wingspan is?

[2010]

Yeah, no. We can keep going back and forth on this (I’d prefer we didn’t, to be honest), but Ball’s defense in college was a big calling card of his - off ball defense was tremendous. LaMelo is crap all over the court on defense.

NBADraft.net is crap, too.

Say what you want about the site but that excerpt was accurate at the time. Did Lonzo not get absolutely cooked by Fox?

Back to LaMelo. In high school and his brief stint in Lithuania, defense just wasn't demanded of him. But he has quick hands, the ability to play the passing lanes for steals and deflections, and has shown defensive potential in spurts. As a pro, if he buys in and defensive discipline is a point of emphasis, I would not be surprised if he turns out to be a plus defender. With him it's basically an effort issue and being more disciplined and mentally locked in. He has the physical tools.

Anybody know what his wingspan is?

The Stepien has it as 6’10.25″-6’10.5″

https://www.thestepien.com/2019/11/27/lamelo-ball-scouting-report/

[robillionaire]

Say what you want about the site but that excerpt was accurate at the time. Did Lonzo not get absolutely cooked by Fox?

Back to LaMelo. In high school and his brief stint in Lithuania, defense just wasn't demanded of him. But he has quick hands, the ability to play the passing lanes for steals and deflections, and has shown defensive potential in spurts. As a pro, if he buys in and defensive discipline is a point of emphasis, I would not be surprised if he turns out to be a plus defender. With him it's basically an effort issue and being more disciplined and mentally locked in. He has the physical tools.

Anybody know what his wingspan is?

The Stepien has it as 6’10.25″-6’10.5″

https://www.thestepien.com/2019/11/27/lamelo-ball-scouting-report/

that says projected wingspan but I'll take it. At least he has size

[newyorker4ever]

His effiency is pretty poor and his playmaking is not good. Just 1 assist in his last game and 3 assists in the prior game. I am not seeing how people would take him #1, let alone I don’t even think he is the best PG of the draft. While I think he will still be a solid player and won’t be that upset if we got him, I am definitely taking Wiseman, Edwards, Lamelo, Nico over him.

I think Nico has moved to as high as #3 in my list. The thing I like about him and Wiseman is that it looks like they already have their unstoppable bread-and-butter go to moves to fall back on when things aren’t going right... for Nico his floater and Wiseman his fadeaway jumper in the post.

Must admit though that it is going to be hard to pass on Cole for sentimental reasons. Cole could end up being that Donovan Mitchell hometown kid turned star that we pass on.

I am more scared to pass up Lamelo Ball lol. I think his potential is insane and could be one of the best guards in the league but I am also worried that the Knicks will ruin him.

I think I feel pretty comfortable passing up Cole. He will be good but his upside isn’t as high as the other guards imo.

This is a great way to explain how i feel about L.Ball as well. He very well could come into the league and instantly show that he's gonna be a top 7-ish PG in the NBA or he could come in and show that he's an overhyped project. I don't think he'll be a bust though no matter what. He'll be at least as good as his brother at at least a couple of the things you need from a good PG like his passing/vision will be good and i think he'll be good at running the offense and setting them up but i'm worried about his shooting and defense. The kid will have full confidence in himself which is a good thing. As of right now i think if he was sitting there at our pick i wouldn't hate it if they took him at any spot and depending on what spot we're picking at and who's off the board i might even love that we draft him.

[DOT]

I'm always wary of guys that have the physical tools to play defense but don't put in the effort to be a good defender

Especially because historically we don't really encourage guys to try hard

To be fair, it does work out sometimes, like RJ is a better defender now than he was in college because he stepped up his effort, but not everybody's like that

[TheScout31]

Lonzo was absolutely a ++ defender in college. Him being cooked by Fox doesn’t change that.

LaMelo doesn’t care about defense on or off ball and has shown next to no instincts in either area. As someone who has seen every game of his besides one, it’s pretty horrific. On top of that, he doesn’t have the frame / size to give people something to rest on.

[Knicksfan1992]

Lonzo was absolutely a ++ defender in college. Him being cooked by Fox doesn’t change that.

LaMelo doesn’t care about defense on or off ball and has shown next to no instincts in either area. As someone who has seen every game of his besides one, it’s pretty horrific. On top of that, he doesn’t have the frame / size to give people something to rest on.

Yeah I remember pounding the table on here that Lonzo was actually a good defender. I think it may have been BnO who kept trying to challenge me on that. Turns out it's one of the few things I was right about in my scouting life

That was a weird national narrative that Lonzo didn't care or try on defense. It was such a weird thing. Yeah he wasn't a lockdown 1 on 1 guy especially with smaller quicker guys like Fox, but off-ball he was a menace and his ability to read the floor on offense really translated to defense as well. Very few guards blow up plays defensively as much as Lonzo does.

LaMelo is the opposite like you said, but I guess the hope is that you get a coach that can emphasize it to him and that his ability to see the court offensively translates to defense. I'm more pro-LaMelo than anti though so maybe I'm too optimistic.

[Tron Carter]

LaMelo’s shot makes him a non-starter for me. Under almost no circumstances. Horrible fit with RJ.

[TheScout31]

Lonzo was absolutely a ++ defender in college. Him being cooked by Fox doesn’t change that.

LaMelo doesn’t care about defense on or off ball and has shown next to no instincts in either area. As someone who has seen every game of his besides one, it’s pretty horrific. On top of that, he doesn’t have the frame / size to give people something to rest on.

Yeah I remember pounding the table on here that Lonzo was actually a good defender. I think it may have been BnO who kept trying to challenge me on that. Turns out it's one of the few things I was right about in my scouting life

That was a weird national narrative that Lonzo didn't care or try on defense. It was such a weird thing. Yeah he wasn't a lockdown 1 on 1 guy especially with smaller quicker guys like Fox, but off-ball he was a menace and his ability to read the floor on offense really translated to defense as well. Very few guards blow up plays defensively as much as Lonzo does.

LaMelo is the opposite like you said, but I guess the hope is that you get a coach that can emphasize it to him and that his ability to see the court offensively translates to defense. I'm more pro-LaMelo than anti though so maybe I'm too optimistic.

Easily one of the more bizarre things with his game. He’s so smart on offense passing, but so stupid on defense.

[F N 11]

Any point guard with handle and can shoot. Dont care about defense. We need an elite offensive point who can open up the floor and RJ can attack or pass back to him to actually make a 3.

[F N 11]

Lonzo was absolutely a ++ defender in college. Him being cooked by Fox doesn’t change that.

LaMelo doesn’t care about defense on or off ball and has shown next to no instincts in either area. As someone who has seen every game of his besides one, it’s pretty horrific. On top of that, he doesn’t have the frame / size to give people something to rest on.

Fox cooking Lonzo helped his stock bc Lonzo was known as a good defender and still is a good defender.

[F N 11]

We need a new coach fast bc I do not want to get down on RJ with Fizdale coaching him.

[HEZI]

UNC T-1HR

[HEZI]

Sick or not Cole still out there cooking

[knickstape21]

Sick or not Cole still out there cooking

Worried about Cole’s lack of wiggle and creativity on drives. Aggressive part is good and so is his handle...

[HEZI]

Sick or not Cole still out there cooking

Worried about Cole’s lack of wiggle and creativity on drives. Aggressive part is good and so is his handle...

I kinda know what you mean but yet I still can't help but love how he runs a team. Imagine if he actually had shooters and more space to work with. It just feels like he doesn't have much room to operate with this UNC team, no real floor spacers out there. They are starting to use him a lot more off the ball because he's their best outside threat. But back to your point, yeah he hasn't shown that wiggle but I do see the explosiveness but he needs angles to exploit it.