2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[BobbyJackson]

There are so many IFS in this draft, let me ask something to give me some perspective on it - who would you trade RJ for in this draft?

that is a great question. feel like the only players in discussion would be wiseman, ball, and Edwards and I am not 100% sure if I would on any of them.

[WargamesX]

There are so many IFS in this draft, let me ask something to give me some perspective on it - who would you trade RJ for in this draft?

None of them, same for Mitch. Honestly I don’t even want to give up more than 1 pick to move up in this draft and that would be for Ball.

Next year if we were talking about Cade or one of the two Jalens.... maybe if they continue their progress in college.

[mpharris36]

Yea he raw but those flashes you can’t front he looks a lot like Jrue Holiday. I think he goes 2nd round if he stays in the draft. I would def take a shot at him there. I believe in him long term

who know man. I see the Australia game and your like nice he scored 23 pts and 5-9 from 3. But in that same tourny vs Frank he scored 2 pts and went 0-8 from the field while playing France. So seems like it would be an absolute crap shoot with him.

Like he said he probably needs a guaruntee about being drafted to skip college. I don't know if anyone will give him that guaruntee with such little info on him.

You somehow find a way to try and give Frank props in every argument... even in topics that have nothing to do with him. Never change man He never played in that game... or that tournament lol

*FRANCE*

typo

[mpharris36]

Hayes averages 3.2 turnovers a game in those very same 24 minutes so significantly better is a hyperbole. DLo didn't even average that much in those extra minutes so not buying it. Only 5 players in the NBA averaged 8+ assists a game and guys like Harden, Lonzo, Morant, CP3, Fox, etc. didn't average 8 assists per game. So I'm not buying it

The defense, again I need to see it to believe it.

i mean his per 36 stats he avg 8 assits a game (last year). But you don't care for that.

So I believe that is possible. Now again that is his high end comp. If he becomes an average NBA guard/role player which is possible too those predictions will be high. But then again no one knows which of these prospects will be high end and which will be role players.

Some will be complete duds.

How many players in the league average 36MPG? There is only a handful of them that get that much playing time and all of them are established NBA stars. If we are going by per 36 then DLo averages over 7 assists a game in the NBA. Hayes per 36 he also averages right under 5 turnovers a game.

I think we gotta be aware just how much improving he needs to make just to become what some might envision him becoming and to be worth the pick. That's why I keep saying he's a long term project because he's got ways to go to even reach Ohio State DLo level let alone the current improved version of today.

Thats nitpicking. If he is a starter he is going to be playing 30-32 minutes. So ok he doesn't avg 36. And if he avgs 7 assists instead of 8 because of the 4 less minutes he then becomes bad?

I stated his two knocks are spot up shots (especially 3's). And turnovers. Those are his biggest flaws where he needs to improve. I mean I'm not sure exactly the point though. He is flawed. Just like Lamelo is flawed in areas. Just like Cole Anthony is flawed in areas. Just like Haliburton is flawed.

They all have there areas of weakness it just depends on what weaknesses from these guys you believe they can overcome.

[Fat]

Hayes is probably the most well rounded PG In the draft

Is he ready to Be a captain at PG for a Desperate franchise like the Knicks that will give him little room for error? Probably not

But Even if that were the case you can always run a two point guard lineup and slide him to the 2.. He is 6”5

I wouldn’t be mad at something like

PG- Vanvleet
SG- Hayes
SF- Barret

[RHODEY]

Hayes is probably the most well rounded PG In the draft

Is he ready to Be a captain at PG for a Desperate franchise like the Knicks that will give him little room for error? Probably not

But Even if that were the case you can always run a two point guard lineup and slide him to the 2.. He is 6”5

I wouldn’t be mad at something like

PG- Vanvleet
SG- Hayes
SF- Barret

No reason to be desperate. Take the guy withthe highest ceiling Lamelo or Hayes and give them 3 years. They'll still only be 21 ? 22? RJ Mitch as well. I think a team like the Lakers should be desperate but not us.

That said your that lineup is very "high IQ" and also very unselfish. Lets move away from the trend of selfish statpadding chuckers...they dont help from a team perspective.

[HEZI]

i mean his per 36 stats he avg 8 assits a game (last year). But you don't care for that.

So I believe that is possible. Now again that is his high end comp. If he becomes an average NBA guard/role player which is possible too those predictions will be high. But then again no one knows which of these prospects will be high end and which will be role players.

Some will be complete duds.

How many players in the league average 36MPG? There is only a handful of them that get that much playing time and all of them are established NBA stars. If we are going by per 36 then DLo averages over 7 assists a game in the NBA. Hayes per 36 he also averages right under 5 turnovers a game.

I think we gotta be aware just how much improving he needs to make just to become what some might envision him becoming and to be worth the pick. That's why I keep saying he's a long term project because he's got ways to go to even reach Ohio State DLo level let alone the current improved version of today.

Thats nitpicking. If he is a starter he is going to be playing 30-32 minutes. So ok he doesn't avg 36. And if he avgs 7 assists instead of 8 because of the 4 less minutes he then becomes bad?

I stated his two knocks are spot up shots (especially 3's). And turnovers. Those are his biggest flaws where he needs to improve. I mean I'm not sure exactly the point though. He is flawed. Just like Lamelo is flawed in areas. Just like Cole Anthony is flawed in areas. Just like Haliburton is flawed.

They all have there areas of weakness it just depends on what weaknesses from these guys you believe they can overcome.

His turnovers aren't just a result of bad passes but also suspect handles and ball control. I mean for a lead guard these aren't just flaws but major flaws. It's not nitpicking at all when we need a guard who is an upgrade over what we already have and Hayes just aint that.

[RHODEY]

i mean his per 36 stats he avg 8 assits a game (last year). But you don't care for that.

So I believe that is possible. Now again that is his high end comp. If he becomes an average NBA guard/role player which is possible too those predictions will be high. But then again no one knows which of these prospects will be high end and which will be role players.

Some will be complete duds.

How many players in the league average 36MPG? There is only a handful of them that get that much playing time and all of them are established NBA stars. If we are going by per 36 then DLo averages over 7 assists a game in the NBA. Hayes per 36 he also averages right under 5 turnovers a game.

I think we gotta be aware just how much improving he needs to make just to become what some might envision him becoming and to be worth the pick. That's why I keep saying he's a long term project because he's got ways to go to even reach Ohio State DLo level let alone the current improved version of today.

Thats nitpicking. If he is a starter he is going to be playing 30-32 minutes. So ok he doesn't avg 36. And if he avgs 7 assists instead of 8 because of the 4 less minutes he then becomes bad?

I stated his two knocks are spot up shots (especially 3's). And turnovers. Those are his biggest flaws where he needs to improve. I mean I'm not sure exactly the point though. He is flawed. Just like Lamelo is flawed in areas. Just like Cole Anthony is flawed in areas. Just like Haliburton is flawed.

They all have there areas of weakness it just depends on what weaknesses from these guys you believe they can overcome.

Well said.

[Fat]

Hayes is probably the most well rounded PG In the draft

Is he ready to Be a captain at PG for a Desperate franchise like the Knicks that will give him little room for error? Probably not

But Even if that were the case you can always run a two point guard lineup and slide him to the 2.. He is 6”5

I wouldn’t be mad at something like

PG- Vanvleet
SG- Hayes
SF- Barret

No reason to be desperate. Take the guy withthe highest ceiling Lamelo or Hayes and give them 3 years. They'll still only be 21 ? 22? RJ Mitch as well. I think a team like the Lakers should be desperate but not us.

That said your that lineup is very "high IQ" and also very unselfish. Lets move away from the trend of selfish statpadding chuckers...they dont help from a team perspective.

I agree, no reason to be desperate but this is the Knicks we’re taking about if the kid doesn’t come out looking like he belongs he will be on the bench watching Payton or kadeem Allen play.

Knicks are definitely on the desperate side they rather play guys like Payton, portis and Morris minutes over developing their draft picks and for what? Some non believable shot at 8th seed heck we didn’t even trade Morris until the very last minute and mills had to be fired for that to even happen.

If the Knicks actually made better strives with ntilkina and Knox then yeah I’d feel more comfortable but the way those two are turning out the Knicks need to do more than draft based on what somebody might be in 3 years. They need to consider how ready the player is now as well as what kind of talent he can be in 3 years.

[spree2kawhi]

I just watched footage of Lamelo Ball scoring 92 points and I'm telling you he'll be a bust. We should draft Cole or Edwards or Haliburton.

Oh you mean the game where he never came down to play defense and his opponents average height was 5'5

It was terrible.

[WargamesX]

So I read up on Perrin and two thoughts for this thread

1) He believes in draft BPA every time, and has been quoted saying so.
2) He says this draft after about 15 guys is basically equal, aka code word for no real standouts. His opinion last year on the record was that the draft was really top heavy (and the jazz traded out).

Anyhow just food for thought this adds weight to the idea we may not go PG if say, Wiseman, Toppin, or Devi are available. Also, I definitely see the knicks trying to move up this draft. Picks #15 -#17 are all with teams that may trade out for a variety of reasons.

[robillionaire]

So I read up on Perrin and two thoughts for this thread

1) He believes in draft BPA every time, and has been quoted saying so.
2) He says this draft after about 15 guys is basically equal, aka code word for no real standouts. His opinion last year on the record was that the draft was really top heavy (and the jazz traded out).

Anyhow just food for thought this adds weight to the idea we may not go PG if say, Wiseman, Toppin, or Devi are available. Also, I definitely see the knicks trying to move up this draft. Picks #15 -#17 are all with teams that may trade out for a variety of reasons.

Yeah real possibility we might not draft a PG. I just want to know what he thinks about lamelo because that’s the basket all my eggs are in

Either way I’m interested to see his approach and I wonder how much of a final say he gets in this pick

[thebuzzardman]

So I read up on Perrin and two thoughts for this thread

1) He believes in draft BPA every time, and has been quoted saying so.
2) He says this draft after about 15 guys is basically equal, aka code word for no real standouts. His opinion last year on the record was that the draft was really top heavy (and the jazz traded out).

Anyhow just food for thought this adds weight to the idea we may not go PG if say, Wiseman, Toppin, or Devi are available. Also, I definitely see the knicks trying to move up this draft. Picks #15 -#17 are all with teams that may trade out for a variety of reasons.

Yeah real possibility we might not draft a PG. I just want to know what he thinks about lamelo because that’s the basket all my eggs are in

Either way I’m interested to see his approach and I wonder how much of a final say he gets in this pick

On the plus side, he said the draft is really equal and there are guys who might get drafted at 20 who are 40 on the board for another team and vice versa (paraphrasing here).

Knicks could possibly wind up with good value at 31. Also, it's possible some team might be a little more enticed than usual to trade FOR the pick in some draft day deal, maybe the Knicks moving up, etc. Probably not, though.

[thebuzzardman]

Just checking with others that I'm reading this chart correctly.

We know the Knicks have 7 #1 picks in the next 4 years. (Extra Clippers pick, two from Mavs, their own)

This chart seems to indicate that the Knicks will have 5 second round picks over the next two seasons as well.

It seems like the chart is just confusing, and the Knicks have a 2nd rounder THIS draft, 2020, from the Hornets and then the Knicks have another Hornets pick in 2021, plus a 2nd rounder from the Clippers

So, Knicks have in effect on extra 2nd rounder over the next two drafts as they traded their 2nd rounders away.

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knicks.htm

[thebuzzardman]

This is a clearer explanation of the Knicks picks over the next few years

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

So, any team that doesn't trade it picks away or get extra is picking 4 times over two drafts.

Knicks POTENTIALLY picking 7 times over two drafts

2020 Knicks 1st round pick
2020 Clippers 1st round pick
2020 Hornets 2nd round pick

2021 Knicks 1st round pick
2021 Mavericks 1st round pick
2021 Hornets 2nd round pick
2021 Detroit 2nd round pick


Yes, I get the Mavs picks will be 20's and we all know where the Clippers picks is. The Hornets picks at least are somewhat high in the 2nd round this year, probably next year

At the least, more chances for that combination of luck/skill to land on a decent role player, some room to maneuver up/down/sideways/trade etc.

*edited - Knicks with 7 picks next two year

[3toheadmelo]

who know man. I see the Australia game and your like nice he scored 23 pts and 5-9 from 3. But in that same tourny vs Frank he scored 2 pts and went 0-8 from the field while playing France. So seems like it would be an absolute crap shoot with him.

Like he said he probably needs a guaruntee about being drafted to skip college. I don't know if anyone will give him that guaruntee with such little info on him.

You somehow find a way to try and give Frank props in every argument... even in topics that have nothing to do with him. Never change man He never played in that game... or that tournament lol

*FRANCE*

typo

We all know that ain’t true

[HarthorneWingo]

This is a clearer explanation of the Knicks picks over the next few years

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

So, any team that doesn't trade it picks away or get extra is picking 4 times over two drafts.

Knicks POTENTIALLY picking 8 times over two drafts

2020 Knicks 1st round pick
2020 Clippers 1st round pick
2020 Hornets 2nd round pick

2021 Knicks 1st round pick
2021 Mavericks 1st round pick
2021 Hornets 2nd round pick
2021 Detroit 2nd round pick
2021 Clippers 2nd round pick

Yes, I get the Mavs picks will be 20's and we all know where the Clippers picks is. The Hornets picks at least are somewhat high in the 2nd round this year, probably next year

At the least, more chances for that combination of luck/skill to land on a decent role player, some room to maneuver up/down/sideways/trade etc.

Trade for Brandon Ingram.

[robillionaire]

This is a clearer explanation of the Knicks picks over the next few years

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

So, any team that doesn't trade it picks away or get extra is picking 4 times over two drafts.

Knicks POTENTIALLY picking 8 times over two drafts

2020 Knicks 1st round pick
2020 Clippers 1st round pick
2020 Hornets 2nd round pick

2021 Knicks 1st round pick
2021 Mavericks 1st round pick
2021 Hornets 2nd round pick
2021 Detroit 2nd round pick
2021 Clippers 2nd round pick

Yes, I get the Mavs picks will be 20's and we all know where the Clippers picks is. The Hornets picks at least are somewhat high in the 2nd round this year, probably next year

At the least, more chances for that combination of luck/skill to land on a decent role player, some room to maneuver up/down/sideways/trade etc.

We don’t have a 2021 Clippers 2nd round pick.
They sent us that one from Detroit in the Morris trade, they still have their own

[thebuzzardman]

This is a clearer explanation of the Knicks picks over the next few years

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

So, any team that doesn't trade it picks away or get extra is picking 4 times over two drafts.

Knicks POTENTIALLY picking 8 times over two drafts

2020 Knicks 1st round pick
2020 Clippers 1st round pick
2020 Hornets 2nd round pick

2021 Knicks 1st round pick
2021 Mavericks 1st round pick
2021 Hornets 2nd round pick
2021 Detroit 2nd round pick
2021 Clippers 2nd round pick

Yes, I get the Mavs picks will be 20's and we all know where the Clippers picks is. The Hornets picks at least are somewhat high in the 2nd round this year, probably next year

At the least, more chances for that combination of luck/skill to land on a decent role player, some room to maneuver up/down/sideways/trade etc.

We don’t have a 2021 Clippers 2nd round pick.
They sent us that one from Detroit in the Morris trade, they still have their own

Correct; I'll edit the original post

[mpharris36]

You somehow find a way to try and give Frank props in every argument... even in topics that have nothing to do with him. Never change man He never played in that game... or that tournament lol

*FRANCE*

typo

We all know that ain’t true

Everyone one but you knows thats true. Frank couldn't play in that tourny...he was too busy dominating team USA at the time in the big boy tournament.