[Camelo Thread] - Update: He's Pushing for NYK! Part 5

[NYK Pharaoh]

if it was that easy to upgrade the talent on their team, why wouldn't the nets do it whether they got melo or not ? why is every team not doing it ?

[TheBluest]

If this gets done all I can say that's what we get always hoping for a starphuck to come save us.

[moocow007]

So when will it be time to offer Gallinari, Chandler, Randolph, and Fields for Melo? Since we're soooooo desperate, right?

When they send Lawson and Nene along with Melo?

[el loco]

Surprise surprise, Wojina thinks Melo will go to the Nyets and he's the only one reporting it. Fanhouse guy came out with another source saying Melo will not got to the Nets.

It pains me to say this But, I would trust what Chris Tomasson (fanhouse) has to say 10 times out of 10 in comparison to what Woj has to say about topics concerning the Denver Nuggets. Tomasson used to work for the now defunct Rocky Mtn. News covering the Nuggets and he has had a strong relationship with the team and its players for several years now.

[ITGM]

If this gets done all I can say that's what we get always hoping for a starphuck to come save us.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2oR44pOmnM[/youtube]

This beat should be the official theme song for this thread.

[Twisted]

Yeah, why does Wojina always build up the Nets? He did the same thing with the Lebron fiasco. Does he have some type of connection to them, or does he just hate the Knicks?

[moocow007]

Yeah, why does Wojina always build up the Nets? He did the same thing with the Lebron fiasco. Does he have some type of connection to them, or does he just hate the Knicks?

There are many theories but I remember one that said he may be bitter at NY (NY times was it?) for not giving him a job. My guess is that he was mugged (and bitch slapped along the way) at somepoint while he was in NY and he's still taking it personal.

In any case Wojina is a mess. He's being sued for taking money to write a book that was supposed to be done 2 years ago that was never done.

[Knicks_Fan2]

Yeah, why does Wojina always build up the Nets? He did the same thing with the Lebron fiasco. Does he have some type of connection to them, or does he just hate the Knicks?

There are many theories but I remember one that said he may be bitter at NY (NY times was it?) for not giving him a job. My guess is that he was mugged (and bitch slapped along the way) at somepoint while he was in NY and he's still taking it personal.

In any case Wojina is a mess. He's being sued for taking money to write a book that was supposed to be done 2 years ago that was never done.

I recall him saying some good things about the Knicks last week after the celtics game.

[moocow007]

Yeah, why does Wojina always build up the Nets? He did the same thing with the Lebron fiasco. Does he have some type of connection to them, or does he just hate the Knicks?

There are many theories but I remember one that said he may be bitter at NY (NY times was it?) for not giving him a job. My guess is that he was mugged (and bitch slapped along the way) at somepoint while he was in NY and he's still taking it personal.

In any case Wojina is a mess. He's being sued for taking money to write a book that was supposed to be done 2 years ago that was never done.

I recall him saying some good things about the Knicks last week after the celtics game.

What was that? That they don't suck as much as he thought they would?

[PrecociousNeoph]

Im not doubting wojina's reporting


melo gave nyk a chance, if donnie couldnt take it, melo is just gonna move on

so i see you've gone back to "wake up donnie" as your official position on all this

[Knicker23]

So Melo clearly doesn't have interest in going to the Nets with the roster that they currently have, or what would be left over for him.... and something tells me bringing Al Harrington along isn't going to change that.... but, as time goes on and we get closer to that deadline, and the Nets and Denver are pushing hard for a trade, who knows what third team they may be able to get in on it to make the deal happen and send another [perhaps respectable] player to the Nets so that Melo would okay it... I can't imagine they'd be able to find such talent that it would change his mind, but hey with the contract on the table and Lopez Harris Harrington with him, who knows what he'd do...

Either way, Denvers disinterest in dealing with the Knicks is a problem... as Hahn wrote today, it's becoming clear it ain't even so much about who could save them a lot money, it's who other than the Knicks can they possibly do a deal with... Melo clearly wants to come here, but i'm not certain he wouldn't sign off on a nets deal if they are able to somehow get another decent player there with him, that isn't Harrington...

It all still remains on what Melo will sign off on, and with Denver saying they've come to grips with the fact that they need to trade him, you'd think Melo would be smart and hold off until they sign him here, which you'd think they have to do or risk getting nothing

[snyknick86]

By Alan Hahn

One way the Knicks can view the busy weekend of trades made by the Orlando Magic is that they essentially remove the Magic as viable competition for Carmelo Anthony. They certainly don't put any pressure on the Knicks to do anything just to get into the upper-echelon in the East.

"I think when you think that way," Donnie Walsh replied, "you make bad mistakes."

Mike D'Antoni said of the Magic roster shake-up: "You always hope for the worst, that it doesn't work out."
Coincidentally, that's the debate regarding the Knicks pursuit of Carmelo. They've played so well over the last month (13-4 since Nov. 17) that there is some trepidation that removing two or possibly three key pieces to D'Antoni's rotation might screw things up.

But the opinion here is when you're talking about adding a superstar talent, it's a risk worth taking.

Still, as we've told you repeatedly, trading for Carmelo isn't something the Knicks control. Getting the Nuggets to engage in a real conversation is still the challenge. At this point, while Denver GM Masai Ujiri has talked with Walsh and just about everyone else in the Knicks front office, there has been zero traction. The feeling remains, as we wrote in August, that the Kroenke's have little interest in sending Carmelo to the Knicks, which, to them, would be viewed as a surrender. Especially when the Nets keep coming to the door with Derrick Favors and a bouquet of first round picks.

So this is where the Knicks, if they're as motivated to get Carmelo as Carmelo is to get to New York, need to get creative. You can't beat the Nets in first-round picks, but you can beat them in an area that will have just as much value - if not more - to the Nuggets: how to save them lots of cold, hard cash in the deal.

The Knicks have to point out a few things to the Nuggets, who, according to those with knowledge of the situation, will want to get under the luxury tax threshold in Carmelo's wake and will want to see some immediate cash savings as they are sure to take a loss at the turnstiles this season. So here's what you explain to Kroenke and Co.:

* - Eddy Curry's expiring contract is more valuable than most expiring players they will receive in a deal (Troy Murphy, for instance) because more than half of Curry's $11.2M salary this season has been paid. An agreement in his contract required a $5.6M lump payment in July, which means the Nuggets will have less to pay, out of pocket, for Curry. And if they wanted to buy him out, even less. Even if you try to factor in the 15% trade kicker in Curry's deal (which you can at least ask him to waive, though he probably wouldn't), some of the $3M in cash considerations included in the deal will cover it.

* - Kelenna Azubuike had been cleared for full-contact practice, but over the last two weeks it had regressed to the point where he's working on his own again. If he reaches mid-season, 80 percent of his expiring $3.3M salary will be paid by insurance, which results in even more out-of-pocket savings for the Nuggets. [I hate pointing this out because it does treat Azubuike as a piece of meat, but this is big business].

* - Like the Nets, the Knicks would be more than willing to throw in the maximum $3M in cash considerations, which would cover the Curry trade kicker and some of the remaining salary for whatever young players they receive. Even more out-of-pocket savings for the Nuggets.

Obviously, the Knicks need to find themselves a first round pick to add to their 2014 first rounder (seriously, is the Lakers' first-rounder this year that valuable?) and might be able to do it with Anthony Randolph or another one of their young player who isn't in the offer. But the above bullets have to be points of emphasis to at least get the Nuggets thinking.

Will it be enough to get them to deal? That remains to be seen. But the Knicks have to accept the fact that the Nets are a very real competitor here and they could emerge as the winner by February if Carmelo decides to accept the short-term stop in Newark.

Still, the Knicks can't panic and with Walsh at the helm, you likely won't see panic. Patience doesn't sell newspapers, nor does it excite fans hungry for trade rumors. But it's how Walsh has handled this rebuild and expect it to be how Walsh handles things between now and the Feb. 24 trade deadline.

I asked him if he felt any motivation to accelerate the plan -- perhaps be a little more aggressive on the trade market -- with his team's positive start, which elevated them into the top six in the East.

"We're trying to make the playoffs," he said. "If there's something out there that will help us make the playoffs, we'll do it."

But it would be a good idea to avoid sneaking into the playoffs, and avoid facing the Celtics or Heat in the first round, if you could. The Knicks hot streak over the last four weeks put them in position to do that. But, as Walsh said, you don't just make trades for the sake of making trades.

"The players [offered] have to be better than what we have right here," he said.

With that in mind, don't expect anything to come out of Orlando's offer of Chris Duhon for Ronny Turiaf, as the Magic frantically search for a backup center after giving up one of the best in the league in Marcin Gortat. Though the salary matchup saves about $800K in cap space for 2011 and Duhon ran the pick-and-roll well, but there was little else he did that would inspire giving up Turiaf's size without getting size back. The Magic are more likely to bring back Tony Battie, who is riding the bench in Philadelphia right now.

* * *

* - Think D'Antoni needs to open up his rotation? Raymond Felton is averaging 41.9 minutes per game in the month of December (nine games) and Amar'e Stoudemire is averaging 40.4 minutes per game.

Stoudemire, who has been a little banged up over the last week, said he had no problem with the minutes he's had to log lately. "I kept myself in great shape all summer and I'm in great shape now," he said. "So whatever amount of minutes coach Mike D'Antoni has for me to win, then I'm down for it."

Stoudemire also wouldn't get into the debate about whether the Knicks should do something to improve the roster as the schedule heads toward the dreaded dog days of the NBA season.

"Obviously we're playing well right now and we've got great camaraderie going," Stoudemire said, "but I'm not the GM, so I can't make any comments from that standpoint."

* - I still don't understand why Andy Rautins hasn't been dispatched to the D-League, even just for this homestand, when D'Antoni knew the rookie likely wouldn't play. Rautins could have gone down to Springfield -- or wherever -- and played and then be recalled at any time. It's understandable to want to keep the extra guard with the team on the West Coast, when it might be difficult to get him out for a game in case of an injury, but right now it's not serving Rautins any good to be nothing more than a practice player. Of course there really shouldn't be any surprise here because the Knicks have never used the D-League as a place to send players.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketbal ... 56280?qr=1

[AllanHoustonFan]

IBTL

[snyknick86]

part 2 Time for Knicks to move on from Melo?

27 m ago By Alan Hahn

If Carmelo Anthony wants to be a Knick, he has the leverage to make it happen. But does he have the patience to play chicken with the Nuggets? Does he have the confidence to risk potentially losing some millions in the new collective bargaining agreement?

Conversely, do the Knicks have the patience and confidence to wait for him?

As Adrian Wojnarowski reports for Yahoo! Sports, the Nuggets and Nets remain hot and heavy in their lovemaking, with desperate intent to give birth to a deal. And as I've been warning you since August, both parties want nothing more than to see the Knicks wind up empty handed. For the Nuggets, it's a personal show of power -- that they didn't submit to the superstar's wishes -- and for the Nets it would be the first stone slung at Goliath as Mikhail Prokhorov attempts to topple the giant as his franchise prepares to move onto New York soil.

The Nets want this bad and it seems they're more desperate than the Knicks, who are feeling so good about their winning record that the debate is whether they should focus more on significantly upgrading areas of need at the center and backup guard positions, rather than tear up the roster for another superstar.

Make no mistake, the Knicks want Carmelo. They know they need another talent of that level to compete with the Celtics and Heat for a championship. But if you can't get the Nuggets to engage in meaningful conversations about trades, you can't ever get to the point of actually making a trade. It's like constantly asking a girl out on a date. Eventually you realize she ain't ever going to say yes and you are risking losing potential dates with other girls if you keep your Saturday night's clear just in case she does eventually say yes.

In the previous blog, I tried to come up with some creative scenarios that might work with the Nuggets, only to realize, upon deeper studying, that my ideas were flawed. And the more I talk to people about this situation the more I'm coming to the realization that it's less about what the Knicks have to offer and more about the fact that it's the Knicks, not their offer, that has the Nuggets turned off.

Remember, the Kroenke's were there at Carmelo's wedding when Chris Paul made that infamous toast about he and Carmelo joining Amar'e Stoudemire in New York. There is a good relationship between the franchises at the ownership level, but that doesn't remove the competitive spirit. Plus, if you can get multiple first round picks and a 19-year-old power forward who was selected third overall, you've just set the foundation of a rebuild.

The best the Knicks can offer are young players who would be more of a re-set, not a rebuild. Sure, perhaps they can get a first rounder for Anthony Randolph, but it would be lottery protected for sure. And the 2014 first rounder the Knicks could also throw in is just too far away to sell to what will be a depressed fan base in Denver.

The Knicks can't really cut bait until they get word from Carmelo that he would accept an extension with the Nets, which, of course, is a form of tampering (yeah, because that kind of business doesn't go on in the NBA). But as the trade season starts to pick up and teams are starting to reach that point in the season where they decide whether to stay the course or abandon ship, the Knicks need to be agile enough to strike in certain areas:

* - PORTLAND: It's still early, but if they're ready to break up an injury-plagued core that just hasn't been able to take the next step, there is great opportunity there. Both Marcus Camby and Andre Miller would be great fits. If not Camby, who last season expressed a strong interest in returning to New York, Joel Przybilla could be another option. With the revelation of his knee issues, does anyone take a chance on acquiring Brandon Roy? Probably not with five years and $82M left on his contract. The Knicks can ill-afford this kind of a gamble, though he would be a potentially dynamic pick-and-roll tandem with Stoudemire, you'd basically have two highly paid star players with concerning knee issues. Fughedaboudit.

* - CLEVELAND: The Cavaliers are a disaster and clearly need to start over in 2010 A.L. (After LeBron). Anderson Varejao is a franchise favorite and loved by the fans there, but his contract is an albatross, especially when you consider how he's not nearly as effective without LeBron on the floor. But next to Stoudemire, he'd be the perfect complement for his hustle, rebounding and defense.

* - MEMPHIS: When they drafted Xavier Henry, it was a clear sign that O.J. Mayo's days were numbered. Or it was just a typical Grizzlies move: rather than draft need, just draft an asset. Still, the Grizzlies are enamored with Henry and Mayo is miserable as a reserve in his third NBA season. The cost-conscious Grizz would move him, I'm told, to save the $5.6M salary next season and then restricted free agency in 2012. Mayo would be a nice third guard -- he's not really a point guard, but he could be effective in the pick-and-roll -- and another young player to develop. Forget uberbust Hasheem Thabeet, but another thought off that roster is Marc Gasol, who is headed toward restricted free agency. He is the perfect big man for the Knicks system -- high IQ player who can pass, shoot, rebound and defend the rim -- but what I'm hearing is the Grizz don't want to lose another Gasol. They'll throw money at him just like they did Rudy Gay. So with that in mind, if you're the Knicks, do you consider Zach Randolph?

* - ATLANTA: Following our trend of bringing back ex-Knicks who fared well in D'Antoni's system, Jamal Crawford will be looking for a new contract this summer and the Hawks are already in the red with the contracts they've given to Joe Johnson, Al Horford and Josh Smith. Would they move Crawford, despite his value to them as a scorer off the bench? Probably unlikely, but Crawford could be an option for the Knicks as a free agent.

* - GOLDEN STATE: The Warriors were listening to offers for Monta Ellis over the summer, but have been much happier with him this season after seeing an improved attitude. He's a ridiculously prolific scorer who might make for a great pick-and-roll tandem with Stoudemire. Then again, he might also be a maddening teammate for Stoudemire, considering how little Ellis looks to pass. Probably not the right fit here, especially since he'd have to play the two-guard spot and just does not defend.

* - MINNESOTA: Luke Ridnour was a target this summer, but the Knicks went with the bigger, stronger Raymond Felton. Ridnour has the skill set and court vision to run this system well, but the T-Wolves like him for all the same reasons on a young team, especially with Jonny Flynn just coming back from injury. They'd be more than willing to give up Sebastian Telfair, whom the Knicks have considered, but is he really an upgrade over Toney Douglas?

* - KINGS: Jason Thompson is a nice player who is struggling there and the New Jersey native might do well next to a star big man such as Stoudemire. Thompson can rebound, which the Knicks need, and can run the floor. His mid-range game is decent and he also has good hands. The issue, of course, is basketball IQ, but perhaps that can be taught. The Knicks coaching staff has done a great job in working with Wilson Chandler, who came into the NBA very raw but has steadily shown improvement in his decision-making. Another thought off this roster? Beno Udrih.

* - OTHER IDEAS: The Bobcats are in a tailspin and you can imagine what that's going to lead to with impetuous personalities like Larry Brown and Michael Jordan in the mix. There's little off that roster to like, but remember Boris Diaw was always loved by this coaching staff and has played alongside Stoudemire in the past in Phoenix. Diaw is in terrible shape and is often so apathetic during games. But he is a big body who can pass the ball and knows this system well . . . Similarly, Jared Jeffries could work out a buyout to escape Houston and considering how much the coaching staff loved him here, Jeffries would be a no-brainer to add at the veteran's minimum . . . Rafer Alston has always wanted to play for the Knicks and has the creativity to run the break and push the ball as a guard off the bench. Too late in his career? He's right now unsigned, though word is he was considering a move to China . . . Another unsigned veteran guard to consider is Ronald "Flip" Murray . . . What do the Magic plan to do with Jason Williams and Chris Duhon now that they're buried on the bench following the trades that brought in guards Jason Richardson and Gilbert Arenas? Duhon's contract is a bit much if you're the Knicks, but Williams is very affordable. He's crafty and can hit the three, but his body is showing its age when it comes to quickness and athleticism . . . Utah has an abundance of guards and Earl Watson could be had at an easy price, but, again, you have to consider the upgrade factor . . . It's highly unlikely that the Suns will move Steve Nash and he certainly won't ask for a trade, so that's not a scenario to consider. The player off that roster who is most intriguing from a Knicks perspective is Robin Lopez, who has played next to Stoudemire and knows this system. The Suns just picked up Marcin Gortat, but they have little reason to move the popular Lopez, who makes a very affordable $1.8M. But it would add to the Knicks-Nets rivalry to have him around to battle with brother Brook.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketbal ... 56280?qr=1

[Knicksfan20]

Denver can get creative with DEEEZ NUTS.

[dice]

Melo to the Nets isn't bad for the Knicks because it means that we don't gut our team, and then still push for top talent after the season.

this post is entirely too sane for this topic in this forum

melo to nets is GOOD for the knicks

[Pharmcat]

Melo to the Nets isn't bad for the Knicks because it means that we don't gut our team, and then still push for top talent after the season.

this post is entirely too sane for this topic in this forum

melo to nets is GOOD for the knicks

the FA market other than melo this coming summer does not have many stars

m gasol would help, but we'd have to pay him max dollars to get him out of mem

[god shammgod]

Melo to the Nets isn't bad for the Knicks because it means that we don't gut our team, and then still push for top talent after the season.

this post is entirely too sane for this topic in this forum

melo to nets is GOOD for the knicks

the FA market other than melo this coming summer does not have many stars

m gasol would help, but we'd have to pay him max dollars to get him out of mem

[Jmonty580]

This whole thing is a game of chicken. Melo has less to lose i think. he clearly doesnt want NJ otherwise he would be there already as Denver has shown interst in NJ's peices already. Its all about who can hold out longer and if Melo is willing to go to the offseason. I think even if it came down to the last day and the last few hours of being able to make a trade, Denver would pick up that phone and call the Knicks and say, we are at your mercy, please give us something of value in return for Melo. The question is will Melo be able to wait until the offseason if need be, or is he banking on that extension.

[RHODEY]

Carmelo is coming. This has been preplanned, same scenario as the Lebron, Wade, Bosh deal. Melo and Amare are good friends, they talk, THAT is our true leverage and Denver KNOW this. They are doing what they can to make it look good for their fans but this is fake hustle. All we need to do is keep wining games and this will play itself out.

I remember thinking to myself, "If we dont get Lebron and Bosh what 2 other players would make the biggest impact" Amare and Carmello popped in my head, this was way before I had heard Melo would want to be here... Amare MEllo and Felton all play that version of Bullyh ball that SCARE people.. There is a major fear factor going on here. Think about it if you are the Celtics or the Heat do you want to face a team with those 3 guys starting? You know you will have to expend a ton on the defense end and there is no guarantee what energy you will have left for offense.


It's FEAR.

There are many people that don't want to see Melo in NY..

Barkley - probably wanted to play for us at one time
Oakley- traitorous fool who is still angry he was traded
Wojo - hater
Isola - Hater
LEbron and Co- want and easy route, planned on Celtic Aging but would now have real competition, something they DONT want.
The Nets
and the list goes on. They know that once Carmelo comes the law of attraction will do it's part and we will be true contenders. Lets just sit back and watch these clowns squirm