Around the NBA - 2024-25 Season Continued - First post updated!

[HarthorneWingo]

I think OKC needs a veteran PG.

They need to lick the inside of my butthole even more than a veteran PG.

Video or GTFO!!!!

[MrDollarBills]

The slugfests of the 2000s weren't exactly pretty to watch. I think the discontent with the NBA goes much further than just the 3-point volume - I'm aiming to write an article on that actually.

You have a good point. I have early 2000s nostalgia because of the Kidd led NJ team that made their hay on defense and pushing the ball with athletic forwards filling the lanes. But thinking back there was some grind fests. Maybe not as bad as those late 90s Mike Fratello style Cavs slog fests we used to see which was unwatchable, but it was definitely some grungy ball mixed in there.

Can you give me a hint about what else you're thinking that is leading to the discontent? I don't wanna spoil your article but I'm curious

It's a fascinating topic. Like for me as I've said, I find myself enjoying the WNBA more than the NBA at large, but it's not as if those games are remotely pretty in terms of pace. But it's throwback hoops with physical play, teams have different identities that aren't based solely on the deep ball, and bigs/forwards dominate the scoring. And then you have Caitlin Clark's rebound and push the pace style that is fun as hell to watch.

One I have that I don't think Chanel does is access to games. We see a lot more November/December basketball from teams that aren't very good and that we don't actively follow than we used to. Thinking of the '81 Finals that were shown on tape delay, to select national games on CBS, then NBC and TNT, to now basically unlimited access to games. Teams would get up for those national games. Now we have these middling games that aren't good or passionate basketball. They never were but now we see it.

Right. Guys not getting up to play hard early on definitely kills interest. How many national TV games have we seen where it's a one sided thumping because the other team is just going through the motions?

[MrDollarBills]

I think players have adapted to the line so that it's no longer a novelty shot but one almost anyone can hit. If I wanted to encourage other actions I'd move the line back and maybe cut out the corners. That'd push a lot of action back below the break.

That said, the spacing, motion, and passing in modern offenses is a relief from the late 90s and 2000s ball. I wouldn't want that to go away.

I'm not missing those Knicks Cavs Pistons Heat 90-85 is high scoring games either

90-85 is generous a lot of those games were topping off at 75-68 at one point

[Fat Kat]

The slugfests of the 2000s weren't exactly pretty to watch. I think the discontent with the NBA goes much further than just the 3-point volume - I'm aiming to write an article on that actually.

I think that some of the younger people follow players and not teams. When you do that, you really don’t watch the game with the same eye or interest. Fans look for their favorite player to score, and they lose interest with the intricacies of the sport. I know someone who played overseas that I talk ball with. He’s a Durant fan, but doesn’t follow a team. It’s such a foreign concept to me, but I even see it here.

[RHODEY]

The slugfests of the 2000s weren't exactly pretty to watch. I think the discontent with the NBA goes much further than just the 3-point volume - I'm aiming to write an article on that actually.

I think that some of the younger people follow players and not teams. When you do that, you really don’t watch the game with the same eye or interest. Fans look for their favorite player to score, and they lose interest with the intricacies of the sport. I know someone who played overseas that I talk ball with. He’s a Durant fan, but doesn’t follow a team. It’s such a foreign concept to me, but I even see it here.

I've observed this as well.

[sol537]

OKC needs more seasoning, it seems... I thought their defense would carry them to the cup win and to the Finals this season, but that's looking iffy at the moment... Too much iso play and lackluster 3pt shooting? Contenders will take full advantage of those shortcomings...

[TheGreenArrow]

The slugfests of the 2000s weren't exactly pretty to watch. I think the discontent with the NBA goes much further than just the 3-point volume - I'm aiming to write an article on that actually.

I'm curious what you'd have as other factors. Wait for the article?

You read my mind.

On this subject, i know people blame Steph for the way the game has evolved but I don't really think it's his fault. Steph can kill you at all 3 levels and his off ball movement is elite.

The analytics that tell coaches and players that mid range jumpers and post ups are bad shots have a way bigger role in my opinion.

Kevin Durant was arguing with some pundit on Twitter awhile back and I agreed with him: legislating the mid range out of the sport is asinine. Why pass up a clean look inside of the arc?

Brunson is an elite scorer and I think most of his damage is done off the dribble in the mid range/paint.

My favorite player and imo the Goat Brandon Roy was a master of the midrange!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The midrange is essential to the game of basketball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MrDollarBills]

The slugfests of the 2000s weren't exactly pretty to watch. I think the discontent with the NBA goes much further than just the 3-point volume - I'm aiming to write an article on that actually.

I think that some of the younger people follow players and not teams. When you do that, you really don’t watch the game with the same eye or interest. Fans look for their favorite player to score, and they lose interest with the intricacies of the sport. I know someone who played overseas that I talk ball with. He’s a Durant fan, but doesn’t follow a team. It’s such a foreign concept to me, but I even see it here.

I see this a lot. Newer age fans could care less about teams and more about players. Kyrie fans are some of the worst people I've ever encountered

[BKlutch]

We're No. 2 in the NBA!!!

2024 NBA Valuation Rankings
1. Warriors: $9.14 billion
2. Knicks: $8.3 billion
3. Lakers: $8.07 billion
4. Nets: $5.7 billion
5. Clippers: $5.66 billion
6. Celtics: $5.66 billion
7. Bulls: $5.56 billion
8. Heat: $5 billion
9. Rockets: $4.77 billion
10. Raptors: $4.66 billion
11. Sixers: $4.57 billion
12. Mavericks: $4.46 billion
13. Suns: $4.32 billion
14. Kings: $4.11 billion
15. Hawks: $4.07 billion
16. Nuggets: $4.06 billion
17. Wizards: $3.98 billion
18. Cavaliers: $3.95 billion
19. Bucks: $3.91 billion
20. Spurs: $3.79 billion
21. Pacers: $3.74 billion
22. Jazz: $3.67 billion
23. Blazers: $3.6 billion
24. Thunder: $3.55 billion
25. Magic: $3.46 billion
26. Pistons: $3.45 billion
27. Hornets: $3.39 billion
28. Timberwolves: $3.29 billion
29. Pelicans: $3.09 billion
30. Grizzlies: $3.06 billion

Happy Dolan.

[Fat Kat]

The slugfests of the 2000s weren't exactly pretty to watch. I think the discontent with the NBA goes much further than just the 3-point volume - I'm aiming to write an article on that actually.

I think that some of the younger people follow players and not teams. When you do that, you really don’t watch the game with the same eye or interest. Fans look for their favorite player to score, and they lose interest with the intricacies of the sport. I know someone who played overseas that I talk ball with. He’s a Durant fan, but doesn’t follow a team. It’s such a foreign concept to me, but I even see it here.

I see this a lot. Newer age fans could care less about teams and more about players. Kyrie fans are some of the worst people I've ever encountered

The Jeremy Lin fans here were absolutely insane. Very aggressive and unwilling to discuss anything not pertaining to Lin.

[Chanel Bomber]

The slugfests of the 2000s weren't exactly pretty to watch. I think the discontent with the NBA goes much further than just the 3-point volume - I'm aiming to write an article on that actually.

I'm curious what you'd have as other factors. Wait for the article?

I'm waiting for the holidays because it's been a crazy few weeks at work but I've been working on a rough draft on my phone's notes app. Let's see and hopefully I can complete it!

[Chanel Bomber]

I'm curious what you'd have as other factors. Wait for the article?

You read my mind.

On this subject, i know people blame Steph for the way the game has evolved but I don't really think it's his fault. Steph can kill you at all 3 levels and his off ball movement is elite.

The analytics that tell coaches and players that mid range jumpers and post ups are bad shots have a way bigger role in my opinion.

Kevin Durant was arguing with some pundit on Twitter awhile back and I agreed with him: legislating the mid range out of the sport is asinine. Why pass up a clean look inside of the arc?

Brunson is an elite scorer and I think most of his damage is done off the dribble in the mid range/paint.

My favorite player and imo the Goat Brandon Roy was a master of the midrange!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The midrange is essential to the game of basketball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chanel Bomber]

I think players have adapted to the line so that it's no longer a novelty shot but one almost anyone can hit. If I wanted to encourage other actions I'd move the line back and maybe cut out the corners. That'd push a lot of action back below the break.

That said, the spacing, motion, and passing in modern offenses is a relief from the late 90s and 2000s ball. I wouldn't want that to go away.

I'm not missing those Knicks Cavs Pistons Heat 90-85 is high scoring games either

90-85 is generous a lot of those games were topping off at 75-68 at one point

The Pistons regularly held teams under 80.

The (real) Nets scored 56 against them in a Conference semi-finals game in 2004.

56

[Capn'O]

I'm not missing those Knicks Cavs Pistons Heat 90-85 is high scoring games either

90-85 is generous a lot of those games were topping off at 75-68 at one point

The Pistons regularly held teams under 80.

The (real) Nets scored 56 against them in a Conference semi-finals game in 2004.

56

I loved those Piston teams and I don't care who knows it.

[Fury]

The slugfests of the 2000s weren't exactly pretty to watch. I think the discontent with the NBA goes much further than just the 3-point volume - I'm aiming to write an article on that actually.

I think that some of the younger people follow players and not teams. When you do that, you really don’t watch the game with the same eye or interest. Fans look for their favorite player to score, and they lose interest with the intricacies of the sport. I know someone who played overseas that I talk ball with. He’s a Durant fan, but doesn’t follow a team. It’s such a foreign concept to me, but I even see it here.

This x100000

[nykballa2k4]

I think that some of the younger people follow players and not teams. When you do that, you really don’t watch the game with the same eye or interest. Fans look for their favorite player to score, and they lose interest with the intricacies of the sport. I know someone who played overseas that I talk ball with. He’s a Durant fan, but doesn’t follow a team. It’s such a foreign concept to me, but I even see it here.

I see this a lot. Newer age fans could care less about teams and more about players. Kyrie fans are some of the worst people I've ever encountered

The Jeremy Lin fans here were absolutely insane. Very aggressive and unwilling to discuss anything not pertaining to Lin.

Lin fan here - also very willing to say Brunson is the best pg since Lin and probably the best Knicks pg since Walt. Better than Lin (obviously) better than Marbury, better than Mark Jackson (both times).

[nykballa2k4]

The slugfests of the 2000s weren't exactly pretty to watch. I think the discontent with the NBA goes much further than just the 3-point volume - I'm aiming to write an article on that actually.

I think that some of the younger people follow players and not teams. When you do that, you really don’t watch the game with the same eye or interest. Fans look for their favorite player to score, and they lose interest with the intricacies of the sport. I know someone who played overseas that I talk ball with. He’s a Durant fan, but doesn’t follow a team. It’s such a foreign concept to me, but I even see it here.

This x100000

IMO sports fans enjoy violence and gore. They don't enjoy knowing the real-world costs of these events.
The physical play in the '80s, '90s was great. Post play where a person would just use their will and sheer strength to dominate was fantastic. Penetration was met with a cost so there was a reason for having a mid-range game.

Baseball and basketball have similar problems and football is not too far behind IMO. NBA has dunk/3's, MLB has HRs/KOs, NFL has long TD's/INT


Basketball is fun when both teams have a struggle to score and a basket has meaning, a large lead is hard to lose.

[MrDollarBills]

I'm curious what you'd have as other factors. Wait for the article?

You read my mind.

On this subject, i know people blame Steph for the way the game has evolved but I don't really think it's his fault. Steph can kill you at all 3 levels and his off ball movement is elite.

The analytics that tell coaches and players that mid range jumpers and post ups are bad shots have a way bigger role in my opinion.

Kevin Durant was arguing with some pundit on Twitter awhile back and I agreed with him: legislating the mid range out of the sport is asinine. Why pass up a clean look inside of the arc?

Brunson is an elite scorer and I think most of his damage is done off the dribble in the mid range/paint.

Yeah, you always have imitators. We're starting to see a line of Jokic impersonators. Bigs thinking they can pass. And they can! Which, I think, is great.

I'm all for high skilled players at center. Jokic isn't the problem, I love watching him play.

The more big men that come into the league that can read defenses, pass, dribble, and shoot the better. I want to see variety.

[Fat Kat]

I see this a lot. Newer age fans could care less about teams and more about players. Kyrie fans are some of the worst people I've ever encountered

The Jeremy Lin fans here were absolutely insane. Very aggressive and unwilling to discuss anything not pertaining to Lin.

Lin fan here - also very willing to say Brunson is the best pg since Lin and probably the best Knicks pg since Walt. Better than Lin (obviously) better than Marbury, better than Mark Jackson (both times).

You predate Linsanity. There was a group that came when he started playing well, and left when he left. You’re not one of those.

[MrDollarBills]

I'm not missing those Knicks Cavs Pistons Heat 90-85 is high scoring games either

90-85 is generous a lot of those games were topping off at 75-68 at one point

The Pistons regularly held teams under 80.

The (real) Nets scored 56 against them in a Conference semi-finals game in 2004.

56

I remember that game, it was horrible. That was the beginning of the end for that group, Kerry Kittles got hurt and K Mart went to Denver right after.

Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince were a nightmare to play against on the wing and the Wallace Boys were in the paint. Whoo boy.

I often think about what would have happened had they drafted Carmelo that that year.