Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE)

[Capn'O]

Pablo contract is partially guaranteed for next year I believe. Also can someone explained to me the 6M and 2.5M exceptions we got also in the deal?

They're basically $$$ numbers that the Knicks can throw into certain trades to make salaries match. It's why OKC, in particular, didn't have to take equal value back in this deal. They had the exception.

Knicks now have 11 mil in trade exceptions. The quote that MP posted about this being an asset for trading with contending teams was considering the following scenario:

Team A is contending. They want to get another good player.

Team B is about to miss the playoffs. They want to tank and have a good player team A wants.


Knicks swoop in. They can offer relief so that Team A can get their player and Team B can tank. For their troubles, the Knicks get assets in the form of prospects and picks. Knicks also have a ton of small contract young fodder now that can be included in said trades.

The _next_ Knick trade that occurs _should_ return something of value - ideally future value.

[R-DAWG]

Another funny observation -- R-DAWG keeps talking about that Memphis pick like it's gold and we got dung -- well go look at the protections. Looks pretty likely it will be a bottom 10 pick in a couple years. Last I checked a pick at 24 is exactly 7 spots from the 2nd round. And the lower you go in the draft, the less a few spots in draft order matter. The difference between a pick between, say, 7 and 14 is a lot bigger than the difference between the 27th and 39th pick in the draft.

It's why Hinkie is loading up on 2nds. Because they are favorable contracts and don't hugely reduce your shots of getting a good player. Not that I'm that excited about the 2nd. But I wouldn't be excited about the Memphis pick, either, just because it has a phony condition on it that sends it from 6-14 only for this year and next. News flash -- that protection means nothing because it won't yield a pick and then it rolls into 6-30 which is where it will be and it's a decent bet that Memphis will still be pretty good.

It's this kind of thing that is annoying. Salivating over a 1st round pick that won't be that good, and dismissing a pick that may be nearby. It's silly. And by the way, because of guaranteed deals, the 28, 29, 30 picks, etc., are worse than just getting 2nds where the contracts are better and you may have about the same chance of finding a steal like D Green.

Hinkee isn't just loading up on 2nds. He's had 2 lotto picks in the last 2 drafts. 1st round picks are great assets. Weather it be the Memphis pick, the OKC pick, the whatever pick. We have had 2 1st rd picks over the last 5 years and are still down 1. This is a major reason why we are in the position we are in today. The Bulls turned 2 bottom 10 picks into Jimmy Butler and Nikola Mirtoic in a year they won 62 games. Dallas turned a likely bottom 10 pick into Rajon Rondo. It's just another asset to play with if we miss in free agency. Or if we need to move a contract. Or if we need to add a cheap role player.

[R-DAWG]

Pablo contract is partially guaranteed for next year I believe. Also can someone explained to me the 6M and 2.5M exceptions we got also in the deal?

They're basically $$$ numbers that the Knicks can throw into certain trades to make salaries match. It's why OKC, in particular, didn't have to take equal value back in this deal. They had the exception.

Knicks now have 11 mil in trade exceptions. The quote that MP posted about this being an asset for trading with contending teams was considering the following scenario:

Team A is contending. They want to get another good player.

Team B is about to miss the playoffs. They want to tank and have a good player team A wants.


Knicks swoop in. They can offer relief so that Team A can get their player and Team B can tank. For their troubles, the Knicks get assets in the form of prospects and picks. Knicks also have a ton of small contract young fodder now that can be included in said trades.

The _next_ Knick trade that occurs _should_ return something of value - ideally future value.

also, need to look at teams that are close to the tax that have an expiring.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Larkin will not be here next year. He had a team option and the Knicks declined it before letting him play a regular season game. He does not have the value of a 1st rd pick. He was picked in the 1st round of a weak draft and couldn't crack the rotation in Dallas. The Knicks obviously didn't see the potential in him. He has no value and will not be here next year.

As for Shump, are you lawst??? We couldn't wait a week for him to come back and play????

The mistake was declining Larkin's option, not trading for him. He is showing promise for a 2nd-year player and who the hell cares if he couldn't crack the rotation for a playoff team as a rookie.

With Shump, his value was already much lower than last year's deadline before the injury and would almost certainly be even lower after returning.

[PMFJB]

Pablo contract is partially guaranteed for next year I believe. Also can someone explained to me the 6M and 2.5M exceptions we got also in the deal?

They're basically $$$ numbers that the Knicks can throw into certain trades to make salaries match. It's why OKC, in particular, didn't have to take equal value back in this deal. They had the exception.

Knicks now have 11 mil in trade exceptions. The quote that MP posted about this being an asset for trading with contending teams was considering the following scenario:

Team A is contending. They want to get another good player.

Team B is about to miss the playoffs. They want to tank and have a good player team A wants.


Knicks swoop in. They can offer relief so that Team A can get their player and Team B can tank. For their troubles, the Knicks get assets in the form of prospects and picks. Knicks also have a ton of small contract young fodder now that can be included in said trades.

The _next_ Knick trade that occurs _should_ return something of value - ideally future value.

This is a good point. I hope these exceptions are used wisely. Usually teams just let them expire.

[R-DAWG]

We could have got Thanasis for cash, just like Brooklyn did with the 2nd rd picks they bought

"Keep getting them checks Minnestoa" - Bill Simmons

Come to think of it, we could have given up a future 2nd for the 35th pick in the draft like Memphis did.

We could have gotten the value we got for Tyson without giving up Tyson

the late first round picks you want can be bought too. And now we have cap space and exceptions to do it.

The Knicks can't buy a 1st round pick...they used their money for that already didn't they?

don't think so, that resets every year. But it's very very rare in today's NBA that first rd picks are sold for cash.

[R-DAWG]

Larkin will not be here next year. He had a team option and the Knicks declined it before letting him play a regular season game. He does not have the value of a 1st rd pick. He was picked in the 1st round of a weak draft and couldn't crack the rotation in Dallas. The Knicks obviously didn't see the potential in him. He has no value and will not be here next year.

As for Shump, are you lawst??? We couldn't wait a week for him to come back and play????

The mistake was declining Larkin's option, not trading for him. He is showing promise for a 2nd-year player and who the hell cares if he couldn't crack the rotation for a playoff team as a rookie.

With Shump, his value was already much lower than last year's deadline before the injury and would almost certainly be even lower after returning.

why would his value be lower after returning??? Doesn't make much sense.

Also, what promise has Larkin showed that makes him worth a 1st round pick?

[Capn'O]

Basically, if he can't get Gasol I hope he goes for a couple of good, SMART players and keeps some of the flexibility.

Dragic, Danny Green, Reggie Jackson, Wes, Butler, Lopez... only Millsap if the price is right. Maybe two from that list. Then stash.

A lot depends on what happens in the draft, as well. I could see him trading "not Okafor" if the right deal came along.



But one thing about Jackson - I don't see him being a guy that will break the bank for guys that he doesn't really want. I don't think he has the "or bust" mentality. Especially if he views Durant as the ultimate prize.

These two are the opposite of smart. Danny just has a smart coach and he knows his role. Reggie is the ultimate in waiting to be overpaid. If we overpay for him I immediately give up on Phish. I'm so serious I'll get obnoxious.

I hesitated to put Reggie in there - and you're probably right. I included him because he's an intriguing talent. I do like Green though. Whether he's a "smart" guy or not, as you say, he knows what he's supposed to do and performs that role very well. Obviously, getting him depends on the salary scale.

[j4remi]

The Knicks can't buy a 1st round pick...they used their money for that already didn't they?

Not literally, but they could potentially use their TPE as a third team to help facilitate trades maybe and the trade options opened up could allow for more mobility and grabbing some picks.

[Fat Kat]

As a side note, Phil has rope a doped the press on every move so far...none of their rumors have panned out except for the things they drop right before the deal is done. Dude is a Houdini in a lot of ways.

There simply aren't any leaks. They hate that because most of them are lazy. That's why they either make stuff up, bash Phil, or sensationalize minor issues.

[Deeeez Knicks]

We could have got Thanasis for cash, just like Brooklyn did with the 2nd rd picks they bought

"Keep getting them checks Minnestoa" - Bill Simmons

Come to think of it, we could have given up a future 2nd for the 35th pick in the draft like Memphis did.

We could have gotten the value we got for Tyson without giving up Tyson

the late first round picks you want can be bought too. And now we have cap space and exceptions to do it.

The Knicks can't buy a 1st round pick...they used their money for that already didn't they?

Not sure about the cash, but we picked up a bunch of exceptions and are under the cap next season. We may be able to use these to acquire some picks or things of value.

Point is Phil is far from done and we have a lot of room to improve. Judging Phil on what he has done so far is very very shortsighted. The team he builds going foward is what he will be judged on. Nobody knows what that will look like.

[K_ick_God]

And we got Thanasis in the Tyson trade. Thats 3 young players.

And then they traded Ellington for Acy. That's 4.

boom....there's the young players everyone wanted. all on cheap contracts.

Also Acy restricted and under our control.

[Bklyn&company]

Some of you are the worse... you all complain about every damn thing... want this and that... with you all Phil is damned if he does or if he doesn't..

Don't you all see its time for a change? Does it even matter what the hell we got? Did you all really want both JR and Shump around? Players that are not getting better, don't play defense and that have hit their ceilings.

This move was made to maximize Phil option to providing him the opportunity to make immediate change.

Now I just hope Wall kills Jose (which is going to happen) and realize Jose, though a good vet to have around is not really a starting point guard anymore. Could be a 2 or 6th man.. but we need total change in our backcourt...

It is time for a change. It's time to stop taking on long term contracts like Jose Calderon. It's time to turn assets, like Tyson Chandler and Iman Shumpert, into 1st rd picks. It's time to stop putting all the eggs in one basket. Yes, it's time for change.

Bro you have to give something to get something and obviously the league didn't think they were worth 1st rd picks... so thats everyone's answer to woulda, coulda, shoulda. All eggs in one basket? What are talking about? He is providing himself with option... again complaining about every damn move... Phil has to clear this mess up to fix it... that means getting rid of mostly the old at any cost... you all could second guess his moves all day but in reality all of you don't have a clue how talks of trades really go down... so proceed and entertain yourselves on woulda, coulda and shoulda..

In business when there's a mess and new management comes in, the old is removed.. employees are let go (really means fired and don't let the door hit you on your way out), or demoted (really a tactic to force them to quit)... and this is done without anything in return, even though some were really great employee's...

When a field of crop is sicken, to start anew... the field must be burnet down (get rid of) as to prevent the old from coming back and infecting the new.

[PMFJB]

Basically, if he can't get Gasol I hope he goes for a couple of good, SMART players and keeps some of the flexibility.

Dragic, Danny Green, Reggie Jackson, Wes, Butler, Lopez... only Millsap if the price is right. Maybe two from that list. Then stash.

A lot depends on what happens in the draft, as well. I could see him trading "not Okafor" if the right deal came along.



But one thing about Jackson - I don't see him being a guy that will break the bank for guys that he doesn't really want. I don't think he has the "or bust" mentality. Especially if he views Durant as the ultimate prize.

These two are the opposite of smart. Danny just has a smart coach and he knows his role. Reggie is the ultimate in waiting to be overpaid. If we overpay for him I immediately give up on Phish. I'm so serious I'll get obnoxious.

I hesitated to put Reggie in there - and you're probably right. I included him because he's an intriguing talent. I do like Green though. Whether he's a "smart" guy or not, as you say, he knows what he's supposed to do and performs that role very well. Obviously, getting him depends on the salary scale.

Reggie Jackson just wants to get payed. His team needed him to play a bigger role and instead he chucked away while KD was out to the point his team froze him out earlier this season.

I don't want a guy who wants to get paid more than he wants to help his team. Pass.

[BowlRips]

Dont know if the Knicks use the TPEs
MSG last night was talking about all the luxury tax savings and the Knicks are right at the luxury tax threshold

[Capn'O]

And we got Thanasis in the Tyson trade. Thats 3 young players.

And then they traded Ellington for Acy. That's 4.

boom....there's the young players everyone wanted. all on cheap contracts.

I've been informed that some of these players don't count though.

[R-DAWG]

And then they traded Ellington for Acy. That's 4.

boom....there's the young players everyone wanted. all on cheap contracts.

Also Acy restricted and under our control.

team option, but still under our control.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

He MAY affect our cap space. There's no guarantee he'd stay if he felt he wasn't wanted. Remember, Smith took less money to stay in a situation that he was happy in. If he's not happy there's no reason not to believe that Smith would opt out and go elsewhere.

Shumpert isn't a can't miss asset. But he's a strong defender on an expiring contract. That is value.

Think about it. Why would a team with a better record want the 2 of them if they are such crap? Why would the Cavaliers want to take on a cancer and an injured dud? Why would they want to take a "guaranteed" extra year on Smith if they know that both James and Love can go elsewhere? Maybe...just maybe...they actually don't use their personal dislike of JR Smith (and Shumpert) to cloud their judgment? Why are we assuming that Phil Jackson, the GM (not head coach but GM) is better than the Cavs GM at...well...GM'ing?

Because the Cavs are a terribly run franchise at peak desperation and when JR **** the bed there and aggravates their chemistry issues, you will realize that the idea of him opting out was always a pipe dream. Again, NO OTHER TEAM HAS OFFERED HIM A CONTRACT IN 5 YEARS!

[MKCATL]

Dont know if the Knicks use the TPEs
MSG last night was talking about all the luxury tax savings and the Knicks are right at the luxury tax threshold

Yup the only thing I see to obtain an asset would be taking on an extra year for Bargs or Amare.

[PMFJB]

And then they traded Ellington for Acy. That's 4.

boom....there's the young players everyone wanted. all on cheap contracts.

I've been informed that some of these players don't count though.

We want young players who are talented. Not young players just because they are young.
Acy is a journeyman in this league.
Thanasis is tbd
Early is tbd
Larkin is a backup at best.

Look I am trying to be optimistic. I didn't say anything bad after the Tyson trade. But this trade just smells like a Walsh trade. And I hated Walsh.