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2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1)

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1501 » by spree8 » Mon Dec 9, 2019 5:49 pm

RHODEY wrote:
spree8 wrote:
bleedblue3303 wrote:If we take Wiseman number 1 we screw everyone.

According to Tankathon
we are
1
2 GS
3 CL

Neither 2 or 3 has space for a pg or sg.

If we took wiseman. There is potential to trade for antoher one of those picks.
I'm bored tonight but humor me.
We take Wiseman 1
offer Rj to GS for the number 2
take Edwards
offer Mitch Knox and 1 Dallas Pick for 3
we take Lamelo.

Next year
Lamelo
Edwards
SF
PF
Wiseman

Thats a step in the right direction. I know its not gonna happen but would you do it?



I’m def taking Wiseman #1 too... dude is built like Dwight, as athletic as Amare, and has the touch of Bosh.

No way I’m trading RJ tho... aren’t him n Wiseman boys? I know I heard James say he wanted to play with RJ the most out of everyone in the league. Everyone else can go tho...


Is he really that athletic? - as in run/jump circles around and drop 40+ points on Tim Duncan's head during the Western conference playoffs athletic?



I didn’t say all that lol. Amare was able to do that with skill in addition to athleticism. Wiseman is def on his level athletically from what I’ve seen tho. Plus he uses that on the defensive end too... something Amare didn’t.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1502 » by TheScout31 » Mon Dec 9, 2019 6:14 pm

Wiseman’s touch isn’t good, nor does he have range (though buying stock is ok), and he’s only got vertical pop in space - not much in crowded areas. Lateral quickness and hip turns are other areas of weakness for him.

He isn’t some GOAT prospect.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1503 » by robillionaire » Mon Dec 9, 2019 6:39 pm

I wouldn’t trade for another top pick, draft looks weak. I would trade for a late first rounder though.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1504 » by Tron Carter » Mon Dec 9, 2019 6:54 pm

TheGreenArrow wrote:
ADeP7 wrote:I’ll trade anything outside of rj to gain a 2nd too 3 pick

Lamelo and wiseman with Barrett would be fantastic.

You make that happen while keeping Barrett and it’s a serious team moving forward. Get a stretch 4 and a sniper at the 2

Lamelo
?
Barrett
?
Wiseman


Thats the thing that bothered me the most about this regime. They would never be creative enough to pull this type of move off.

Masai or presti would be.


when in the history of the league has a team been able trade into a draft to acquire a second top 3 pick?
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1505 » by Capn'O » Mon Dec 9, 2019 6:57 pm

Tron Carter wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:
ADeP7 wrote:I’ll trade anything outside of rj to gain a 2nd too 3 pick

Lamelo and wiseman with Barrett would be fantastic.

You make that happen while keeping Barrett and it’s a serious team moving forward. Get a stretch 4 and a sniper at the 2

Lamelo
?
Barrett
?
Wiseman


Thats the thing that bothered me the most about this regime. They would never be creative enough to pull this type of move off.

Masai or presti would be.


when in the history of the league has a team been able trade into a draft to acquire a second top 3 pick?


See - here's the trick. You trade Randle to a good team for a pick and then watch them fall in the standings and BOOM, there it is.

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1506 » by TheGreenArrow » Mon Dec 9, 2019 7:03 pm

Tron Carter wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:
ADeP7 wrote:I’ll trade anything outside of rj to gain a 2nd too 3 pick

Lamelo and wiseman with Barrett would be fantastic.

You make that happen while keeping Barrett and it’s a serious team moving forward. Get a stretch 4 and a sniper at the 2

Lamelo
?
Barrett
?
Wiseman


Thats the thing that bothered me the most about this regime. They would never be creative enough to pull this type of move off.

Masai or presti would be.


when in the history of the league has a team been able trade into a draft to acquire a second top 3 pick?


It doesn't even have to be a top 3 pick.

Be creative and try to get another pick in the 6th-10 range.

Just do something for once instead of just standing pat all the **** time.

Imagine walking away with a combination of...

Wiseman + nico
Lamelo + Deni
Edwards + nico
Cole + Vernon carey
Lamelo + Vernon carey
NewYorkOrNoWhere!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1507 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Dec 9, 2019 7:22 pm

Worst_to_First wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:
To be fair Ant-Man is also at only 41.9.

The efficiency of the guards in this draft class worries me. I’d still go with Wiseman if we get the #1 pick.

Im with you. Wiseman seems like the safest pick right now.

I am not too worried about Edwards though. Past 3 games he has started to be more efficient. Edwards still my #2. Now Cole Anthony on the other hand.. he's getting worse and worse. Here's his stat line of his game today

4-15 FG. 1-6 From 3. 3-6 FT. 0 Assists. 6 Turnovers. Just 12 points. I am not sure how people would still take Cole Anthony as the #1 pick. He's def not it. Let alone, he not even in my top 4. I hope the Knicks dont end up with him. With all his flaws and the Knicks having a poor track record of developing players, it's a receipe for disaster imo.


Cole’s low A/TO is a concern. Ja also didn’t have the most skilled teammates but he still managed to have very good assist totals.

I view Cole more of an undersized SG which might work well though with Frank as a backcourt partner.

The thing with Frank and Cole is that we still gonna need a point guard. So we still kinda screwed. I would just trade down for Nico Mannion if Cole Anthony was still available where we pick.

Also Wiseman staying ready. Not suprising knowing his mentality and work ethic.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1508 » by spree8 » Mon Dec 9, 2019 7:45 pm

TheScout31 wrote:Wiseman’s touch isn’t good, nor does he have range (though buying stock is ok), and he’s only got vertical pop in space - not much in crowded areas. Lateral quickness and hip turns are other areas of weakness for him.

He isn’t some GOAT prospect.



How is his touch not good? Only been 3 games he’s played but he shoots 80% on his 2pt’ers. 77% TS. Those are good hands around the basket. He’s shooting 71% from FT on 9+ attempts... Bosh shot 73% in college. James needs to improve his jump shot selection sure, but he’s far from a finished product. He looked much better those 3 games than he did high school in every facet of the game not to mention physically. Lateral quickness isn’t a major issue from what I’ve seen, nor are his hops in crowded areas.

I’d say shot selection, pick n roll defense, and defensive IQ are the biggest areas he needs to focus on for the next level. He’s still just a kid... but the foundation is def there for a star player in the making.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1509 » by ADeP7 » Mon Dec 9, 2019 8:32 pm

I shouldn’t say top 3. That is a stretch. But position yourself to get a pick in the 6-12 range. A guy may fall that is in that top 5 and next thing you know you’re walking away with two great players. Point is the knicks aren’t willing to move up for anyone. They have sat where they were at with no balls to make a move to go get someone. And what has it resulted in.
Frank and Kevin Knox.
players we could have made a move for
Tatum , fox, Luka , Trae , Lauri , jaren Jackson.

Like I said. Obviously takes 2 to tango but those players all make our team way better and if it cost only a future first then that’s what separates us from being a team with a frank/Knox combo or a team with one of those elite players
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1510 » by semjazy » Mon Dec 9, 2019 8:39 pm

ADeP7 wrote:I shouldn’t say top 3. That is a stretch. But position yourself to get a pick in the 6-12 range. A guy may fall that is in that top 5 and next thing you know you’re walking away with two great players. Point is the knicks aren’t willing to move up for anyone. They have sat where they were at with no balls to make a move to go get someone. And what has it resulted in.
Frank and Kevin Knox.
players we could have made a move for
Tatum , fox, Luka , Trae , Lauri , jaren Jackson.

Like I said. Obviously takes 2 to tango but those players all make our team way better and if it cost only a future first then that’s what separates us from being a team with a frank/Knox combo or a team with one of those elite players

It you want you can get Lauri for Knox, Frank, future first right now
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1511 » by TheScout31 » Mon Dec 9, 2019 8:45 pm

spree8 wrote:
TheScout31 wrote:Wiseman’s touch isn’t good, nor does he have range (though buying stock is ok), and he’s only got vertical pop in space - not much in crowded areas. Lateral quickness and hip turns are other areas of weakness for him.

He isn’t some GOAT prospect.



How is his touch not good? Only been 3 games he’s played but he shoots 80% on his 2pt’ers. 77% TS. Those are good hands around the basket. He’s shooting 71% from FT on 9+ attempts... Bosh shot 73% in college. James needs to improve his jump shot selection sure, but he’s far from a finished product. He looked much better those 3 games than he did high school in every facet of the game not to mention physically. Lateral quickness isn’t a major issue from what I’ve seen, nor are his hops in crowded areas.

I’d say shot selection, pick n roll defense, and defensive IQ are the biggest areas he needs to focus on for the next level. He’s still just a kid... but the foundation is def there for a star player in the making.


Tyson Chandler and Mitch shot well from the field, do they have good touch? Wiseman is all paint and in on his makes, except when he’s not (see EYBL and his horrible 50s TS% ... as a big).

Lateral quickness / hip turns are an issue. He was exposed the only time he’s been caught on a switch this year...Penny is dropping him / not switching because he can’t get caught on an island. He’s a drop big. Disagree on your review of his athletic components, but that’s cool :) Discussions are fun.

Star in making is...very bold, but we’ll see I guess.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1512 » by spree8 » Mon Dec 9, 2019 9:48 pm

TheScout31 wrote:
spree8 wrote:
TheScout31 wrote:Wiseman’s touch isn’t good, nor does he have range (though buying stock is ok), and he’s only got vertical pop in space - not much in crowded areas. Lateral quickness and hip turns are other areas of weakness for him.

He isn’t some GOAT prospect.



How is his touch not good? Only been 3 games he’s played but he shoots 80% on his 2pt’ers. 77% TS. Those are good hands around the basket. He’s shooting 71% from FT on 9+ attempts... Bosh shot 73% in college. James needs to improve his jump shot selection sure, but he’s far from a finished product. He looked much better those 3 games than he did high school in every facet of the game not to mention physically. Lateral quickness isn’t a major issue from what I’ve seen, nor are his hops in crowded areas.

I’d say shot selection, pick n roll defense, and defensive IQ are the biggest areas he needs to focus on for the next level. He’s still just a kid... but the foundation is def there for a star player in the making.


Tyson Chandler and Mitch shot well from the field, do they have good touch? Wiseman is all paint and in on his makes, except when he’s not (see EYBL and his horrible 50s TS% ... as a big).

Lateral quickness / hip turns are an issue. He was exposed the only time he’s been caught on a switch this year...Penny is dropping him / not switching because he can’t get caught on an island. He’s a drop big. Disagree on your review of his athletic components, but that’s cool :) Discussions are fun.

Star in making is...very bold, but we’ll see I guess.



I’m not sayin the guy is Olajuwon in terms of defensive versatility, but he’s not like Jokic where you can just destroy him on an island. I mean even Gobert gets abused by pick n roll play sometimes (like vs Rockets). But I have seen him pick up guards on switches and make the stop... it’s something he can work on to be more consistent.

Most of his scoring does come from in the paint... never said he was primarily a jump shooter... but he does shoot them at times. His form is nice, but he’s gotta make better shot selection... Tyson n Mitch aren’t the same. This dude is doing Harden step back jumpers with nice form and hitting them... you don’t see that from those other guys. It’s an area of his game he can expand on and improve in time imo, but the fundamentals are there to be built on.

Athletically... the dude consistently beats out 9 other people up the court and is a beast on the boards, finishing above the rim thru contact, and shot blocking. You can’t really do that if you’re not an athletic freak.

I don’t think it’s a bold statement all things considered... he’s consensus top 2 for a reason.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1513 » by TheScout31 » Mon Dec 9, 2019 11:01 pm

spree8 wrote:
TheScout31 wrote:
spree8 wrote:

How is his touch not good? Only been 3 games he’s played but he shoots 80% on his 2pt’ers. 77% TS. Those are good hands around the basket. He’s shooting 71% from FT on 9+ attempts... Bosh shot 73% in college. James needs to improve his jump shot selection sure, but he’s far from a finished product. He looked much better those 3 games than he did high school in every facet of the game not to mention physically. Lateral quickness isn’t a major issue from what I’ve seen, nor are his hops in crowded areas.

I’d say shot selection, pick n roll defense, and defensive IQ are the biggest areas he needs to focus on for the next level. He’s still just a kid... but the foundation is def there for a star player in the making.


Tyson Chandler and Mitch shot well from the field, do they have good touch? Wiseman is all paint and in on his makes, except when he’s not (see EYBL and his horrible 50s TS% ... as a big).

Lateral quickness / hip turns are an issue. He was exposed the only time he’s been caught on a switch this year...Penny is dropping him / not switching because he can’t get caught on an island. He’s a drop big. Disagree on your review of his athletic components, but that’s cool :) Discussions are fun.

Star in making is...very bold, but we’ll see I guess.



I’m not sayin the guy is Olajuwon in terms of defensive versatility, but he’s not like Jokic where you can just destroy him on an island. I mean even Gobert gets abused by pick n roll play sometimes (like vs Rockets). But I have seen him pick up guards on switches and make the stop... it’s something he can work on to be more consistent.

Most of his scoring does come from in the paint... never said he was primarily a jump shooter... but he does shoot them at times. His form is nice, but he’s gotta make better shot selection... Tyson n Mitch aren’t the same. This dude is doing Harden step back jumpers with nice form and hitting them... you don’t see that from those other guys. It’s an area of his game he can expand on and improve in time imo, but the fundamentals are there to be built on.

Athletically... the dude consistently beats out 9 other people up the court and is a beast on the boards, finishing above the rim thru contact, and shot blocking. You can’t really do that if you’re not an athletic freak.

I don’t think it’s a bold statement all things considered... he’s consensus top 2 for a reason.


He's no Gobert either in the paint, and his lateral quickness doesn't bode well for perimeter defense / anything but drop coverage.I've seen him get burned on the perimeter WAY more than I've seen him successfully pick guys up, and I've watched way more Wiseman than most people probably have between his HS, AAU, and few college games (though maybe you watched more?).

He went 1-3 on jumpers in the Memphis games IIRC (though he had the nice flash to FT jumper for the make), and his shooting in HS wasn't something I'd use as evidence he can shoot.

You're right he beats 90% of guys down the court - this is something I've said on Twitter actually, saying he's a "gazelle in the open court" because he is. However, straight line athleticism doesn't mean he's a good athlete. He has issues getting around guys, opening his hips on defense, and changing direction on offense too. On the athletic pop, I'm good with what I've seen so far.

Agree to disagree, man. We'll see where the rest of the season takes him.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1514 » by bleedblue3303 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:11 am

Anyone know much about Cassius Stanley.
Measurements look good. Stats look good and from what I’m reading an athletic freak. What am I missing that he’s not higher


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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1515 » by RHODEY » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:19 am

TheScout31 wrote:
spree8 wrote:
TheScout31 wrote:Wiseman’s touch isn’t good, nor does he have range (though buying stock is ok), and he’s only got vertical pop in space - not much in crowded areas. Lateral quickness and hip turns are other areas of weakness for him.

He isn’t some GOAT prospect.



How is his touch not good? Only been 3 games he’s played but he shoots 80% on his 2pt’ers. 77% TS. Those are good hands around the basket. He’s shooting 71% from FT on 9+ attempts... Bosh shot 73% in college. James needs to improve his jump shot selection sure, but he’s far from a finished product. He looked much better those 3 games than he did high school in every facet of the game not to mention physically. Lateral quickness isn’t a major issue from what I’ve seen, nor are his hops in crowded areas.

I’d say shot selection, pick n roll defense, and defensive IQ are the biggest areas he needs to focus on for the next level. He’s still just a kid... but the foundation is def there for a star player in the making.


Tyson Chandler and Mitch shot well from the field, do they have good touch? Wiseman is all paint and in on his makes, except when he’s not (see EYBL and his horrible 50s TS% ... as a big).

Lateral quickness / hip turns are an issue. He was exposed the only time he’s been caught on a switch this year...Penny is dropping him / not switching because he can’t get caught on an island. He’s a drop big. Disagree on your review of his athletic components, but that’s cool :) Discussions are fun.

Star in making is...very bold, but we’ll see I guess.


Do you think he's on Amare's level athletically?
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1516 » by 3toheadmelo » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:23 am

My guy HEZI was the only one to mention him and he deserves mad props. Draftexpress now has him in the top 10. Seems like a smooth PG. Only concern is his shot looks weird but it somehow goes in. And his handle seems a little basic. Nonetheless, he looks really good
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1517 » by TheScout31 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:25 am

RHODEY wrote:
TheScout31 wrote:
spree8 wrote:

How is his touch not good? Only been 3 games he’s played but he shoots 80% on his 2pt’ers. 77% TS. Those are good hands around the basket. He’s shooting 71% from FT on 9+ attempts... Bosh shot 73% in college. James needs to improve his jump shot selection sure, but he’s far from a finished product. He looked much better those 3 games than he did high school in every facet of the game not to mention physically. Lateral quickness isn’t a major issue from what I’ve seen, nor are his hops in crowded areas.

I’d say shot selection, pick n roll defense, and defensive IQ are the biggest areas he needs to focus on for the next level. He’s still just a kid... but the foundation is def there for a star player in the making.


Tyson Chandler and Mitch shot well from the field, do they have good touch? Wiseman is all paint and in on his makes, except when he’s not (see EYBL and his horrible 50s TS% ... as a big).

Lateral quickness / hip turns are an issue. He was exposed the only time he’s been caught on a switch this year...Penny is dropping him / not switching because he can’t get caught on an island. He’s a drop big. Disagree on your review of his athletic components, but that’s cool :) Discussions are fun.

Star in making is...very bold, but we’ll see I guess.


Do you think he's on Amare's level athletically?


Absolutely not
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1518 » by TheScout31 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:05 am

3toheadmelo wrote:My guy HEZI was the only one to mention him and he deserves mad props. Draftexpress now has him in the top 10. Seems like a smooth PG. Only concern is his shot looks weird but it somehow goes in. And his handle seems a little basic. Nonetheless, he looks really good


Draft Twitter loved him last year. He’s really fun. Actually has shown more of an on ball game this year, which is nice.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1519 » by knickstape21 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:10 am

3toheadmelo wrote:My guy HEZI was the only one to mention him and he deserves mad props. Draftexpress now has him in the top 10. Seems like a smooth PG. Only concern is his shot looks weird but it somehow goes in. And his handle seems a little basic. Nonetheless, he looks really good


Oof that jumper is ugly.

Perfect fit! :lol:
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1) 

Post#1520 » by frothbrain » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:40 am

imagine a 4-19 season to draft a guy like Tyerese Haliburton in the lottery.

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