Donovan Mitchell Discussion 4

[whocares1]

Those 2 years after RJ would have been the perfect time to tank and truly rebuild. Instead they signed a bunch of guys who dont fit next to RJ to try to be competitive.

Yea, they will never commit to a true rebuild/tank.

They didn’t tank bc the Nets got KD and Kyrie. If they had gone anywhere else we would’ve been in a better position. But Dolan cares about the business aspect first over building a winner.

The Knicks thought they were getting KD and Mills sold Dolan on that plan. Dolan was bragging on the radio that the Knicks were signing stars. No matter where KD and Kyrie signed, there was no turning back. Knicks were going to try to play the cards they had no matter what, instead of just accepting that they had bad cards and folding like they should have. It was all pretty ridiculous and sad.

I mean maybe. I’m just saying that there’s never a 100% chance a star signs with you even if the Knicks felt strongly about it. Especially with temperamental attitudes like KD and Kyrie. The big point is that Dolan forced Walsh to make the Melo trade likely bc his direct competitors in the market were trying to get him. It’s not crazy to think that them going to Brooklyn forced the Knicks to try to compete bc they would be the new city attraction.

[Clyde_Style]

Y’all better pray a DM deal ships Randle out to another team, because if he’s still here the locker room will be toxic and the team will implode from the bad chemistry

I agree with this but I think if Obi is shipped out it wouldnt be that bad..... I think a lot of Randles issues last year were due to the fact that eery game he had to hear the crowd chant for his backup to come in

Randle's issues are deeper than that and won't be resolved by removing Obi. He'll still be the same self-absorbed brat. If anything, the issues of sharing the spotlight will only get worse with DM and Brunson stealing his thunder. The man is not built for prime time and belongs in a smaller market.

Obi is all prime-time. He feeds off the pressure and is made for the spotlight. It is freaking amazing how many Knicks fans underestimate his star potential. I'm pretty fed up at the rubbish talent evaluation going on here

[Monk1718]

Read on Twitter

Don’t know who this is but take it with a grain of salt.

[mpharris36]

correct, I have come to terms with that so at least make the product interesting. And Brunson/Mitchell unless catastrophic injury should not put us in the top 10.

and maybe they figure out some way to get the next star 2 or 3 years from now or so. probably not but who knows. truth is, very few guys win titles at all. you usually need one of the best players of all time on your squad. look at the past 11 years. it's all bron or curry, with or without durant, with 1 giannis win and 2 for kawhi. that's it. 2 (or 3) guys won 8 titles and the other 2 won 3. what's the alternative right now ? pick 10th through 14th again. if we even keep the pick ? just another wasted year where nothing is accomplished.

i'm talking to myself now but who are gonna be the favorites next year ? curry. giannis, kawhi and whatever team has durant. and maybe lebron if the lakers make some good moves. it's all the same guys until they age out and then it'll be 3 new guys replacing them for the next 10 years.

Its the way of the NBA....unless the knicks make an effort to be bad for 3-5 year windown and take multiple changes at the top of the draft being a championship contender likely isn't in our cards. So if we don't trade for Mitchell, whats the plan after that...wait for another player very close to mitchell talent and age to ask out and trade a similar package for them, and hope they want to come to NY too?

[TrueWarrior]

Y’all better pray a DM deal ships Randle out to another team, because if he’s still here the locker room will be toxic and the team will implode from the bad chemistry

Crazy how we either arent shopping Julius, cant find any takers for him, or we prob have to attach assets to get rid of him which is why hes still here. Just 1 year after his All NBA season, where hes on a decent contract with no injuries, and he has negative value because of how bad his attitude and play was.

Like what is the damn plan with Julius? We really gonna choose him over Obi I guess. Sad!

[Clyde_Style]

Read on Twitter

Don’t know who this is but take it with a grain of salt.

It's Monty

Pick a Door # 1, 2 or 3

[god shammgod]

the only thing that really works is having an all-time great on your squad. tanking, trading for him, signing him, none of that matters really as much. there's 30 nba teams and around 4 guys who win all the titles every decade.

[SARGO127]

Read on Twitter

Don’t know who this is but take it with a grain of salt.

He’s equivalent to our RR

[whocares1]

Which team has won a title drafting an eventual superstar after tanking? Just Duncan. And if you count LeBron coming back.

Regardless. The logic is that tanking increases your chances of picking a superstar talent. A homegrown superstar player is needed according to every single championship for the past two decades. The Knicks currently do not have one. You could argue and say that Steph at #7 isn’t tanking. But two of their 4 championships were with a #2 Draft pick. And the first one they got can be argued that it could’ve done differently if the #1 draft pick from the other team stayed healthy.

If the Warriors are your only example (not a great one), then it’s clear that tanking hasn’t yielded much success.

Spurs? Miami? Cleveland? Lakers? All won chips with a Top 5 draft pick and more. The only exception is really the Bucks.

[Clyde_Style]

Y’all better pray a DM deal ships Randle out to another team, because if he’s still here the locker room will be toxic and the team will implode from the bad chemistry

Crazy how we either arent shopping Julius, cant find any takers for him, or we prob have to attach assets to get rid of him which is why hes still here. Just 1 year after his All NBA season, where hes on a decent contract with no injuries, and he has negative value.

Like what is the damn plan with Julius? We really gonna choose him over Obi I guess. Sad!

There is little or no market for Randle at least not at the level this FO hoped they find this off-season

Rose's cardinal sin was Randle's extension. It may ruin his tenure it was that bad of a decision

That doesn't mean they won't find a taker, but they're going to have to eat dirt to do it

So it's time to saddle up and deal with the lowered value and move Randle. Eat crow and get it done

[Butch718]

Read on Twitter

Don’t know who this is but take it with a grain of salt.

Knicks were never offering RJ.

[god shammgod]

and maybe they figure out some way to get the next star 2 or 3 years from now or so. probably not but who knows. truth is, very few guys win titles at all. you usually need one of the best players of all time on your squad. look at the past 11 years. it's all bron or curry, with or without durant, with 1 giannis win and 2 for kawhi. that's it. 2 (or 3) guys won 8 titles and the other 2 won 3. what's the alternative right now ? pick 10th through 14th again. if we even keep the pick ? just another wasted year where nothing is accomplished.

i'm talking to myself now but who are gonna be the favorites next year ? curry. giannis, kawhi and whatever team has durant. and maybe lebron if the lakers make some good moves. it's all the same guys until they age out and then it'll be 3 new guys replacing them for the next 10 years.

Its the way of the NBA....unless the knicks make an effort to be bad for 3-5 year windown and take multiple changes at the top of the draft being a championship contender likely isn't in our cards. So if we don't trade for Mitchell, whats the plan after that...wait for another player very close to mitchell talent and age to ask out and trade a similar package for them, and hope they want to come to NY too?

people are like wait for the next guy who's better than him....it was 10 years ago the last time an all-star wanted to come here at all. it's as rare as melo eating a salad for lunch.

[whocares1]

the only thing that really works is having an all-time great on your squad. tanking, trading for him, signing him, none of that matters really as much. there's 30 nba teams and around 4 guys who win all the titles every decade.

It does matter. The only team that won a championship without a drafted star was the Lakers and they traded the players they tanked for to get one.

[mpharris36]

the only thing that really works is having an all-time great on your squad. tanking, trading for him, signing him, none of that matters really as much. there's 30 nba teams and around 4 guys who win all the titles every decade.

every once in a while you can throw in a random team like Dallas with Dirk or the Pistons with (billups/rip/wallaces)

But mostly, especially recently, team with top 5 players usually win. Kawhi/LeBron windows seemed to have closed.

You are looking at Curry/Giannis/KD

Then maybe some young guys coming up like Embiid/Jokic/Tatum can do it.

Luka could come close but he has zero supporting cast.

[iLLmatic860]

nvm

[Juco24]

Basically Begley says be weary of Miami

I think Ainge hates Riley more than us... but I can see Ainge using Miami to get NY to up the ante

Like Mitchell’s price went up from the Rudy trade, KD’s price could go up a lot higher from a Mitchell trade as well

YEP!!

[god shammgod]

the only thing that really works is having an all-time great on your squad. tanking, trading for him, signing him, none of that matters really as much. there's 30 nba teams and around 4 guys who win all the titles every decade.

It does matter. The only team that won a championship without a drafted star was the Lakers and they traded the players they tanked for to get one.

the raptors didn't draft kawhi or lowry. but even if you were right it still doesn't matter, they won't do it. i would like to tank. they aint gonna do it!!!!!

[spree8]

I’m just jealous of Detroit. Here we are talking about giving up our youth plus damn near all of our future picks for a non-superstar player, while Detroit did it right and has all their picks plus Cade, Ivey, Duren, and Bey.

Why is this so hard for us to do? We should have Ivey & Duren

Is Cade, Ivey, Duren, and Bey the same amount of talent as Donovan Mitchell, RJ, Brunson, and Mitch? In the end thats all that matters whether we drafted or signed them.

I think you’re overlooking something pretty significant. Who are we trading for Mitchell? If that costs us Obi, IQ, Grimes etc, that’s a big loss. But more importantly, who will these picks we trade turn into? We’d have to wait years to see what we really lost/could have had, and it could end up badly.

But I’d much rather have Cade, Ivey, Duren, and Bey over Donovan, Brunson, RJ, and Mitch. Duren already is displaying high level passing ability, versatility, and dominance in the paint at just 18 years old (yeah I know it’s just summer league), and Ivey looks like he’s got sure fire star potential, as does Cade. Bey is a perfect 3rd/4th option for them too. Plus they still have all their own picks.

It’s not just about these 4 vs those 4… but what else they’re capable of adding there. Not to mention all their cap space after this year… we’ve seen how they can land lotto picks just from taking bad contracts that only have 1 year left on them. Plus all their guys are on rookie contracts for many years to come. We’re freaking out about RJ’s extension, Mitch’s 15 mil per year, and the overpay for Brunson.

If a magic genie came and offered to swap their players and pick & cap situation for ours, I’d do it in a nanosecond.

[stuporman]

The media puts pressure on Rose....then says there's pressure on Rose and that their jobs are on the line, they have to get the deal done but they can't give everything up.

Everyone of them knows exactly how to build a championship roster even though none of them have ever built anything that won a professional title....they can't even build a fantasy league winner.

Wait...isn't Woj the one who has been completely wrong on the timing of deals and how close or far teams have been many times over the past couple years? Um...yea

[NoDopeOnSundays]

correct, I have come to terms with that so at least make the product interesting. And Brunson/Mitchell unless catastrophic injury should not put us in the top 10.

and maybe they figure out some way to get the next star 2 or 3 years from now or so. probably not but who knows. truth is, very few guys win titles at all. you usually need one of the best players of all time on your squad. look at the past 11 years. it's all bron or curry, with or without durant, with 1 giannis win and 2 for kawhi. that's it. 2 (or 3) guys won 8 titles and the other 2 won 3. what's the alternative right now ? pick 10th through 14th again. if we even keep the pick ? just another wasted year where nothing is accomplished.

i'm talking to myself now but who are gonna be the favorites next year ? curry. giannis, kawhi and whatever team has durant. and maybe lebron if the lakers make some good moves. it's all the same guys until they age out and then it'll be 3 new guys replacing them for the next 10 years.

While I agree with you, it does need to be said that 3 of those guys essentially came out of nowhere - Kawhi, Curry and Giannis were never expected to be that guy.