Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE)

[E-Balla]

Shumpert isn't a can't miss asset. But he's a strong defender on an expiring contract. That is value.

Think about it. Why would a team with a better record want the 2 of them if they are such crap? Why would the Cavaliers want to take on a cancer and an injured dud? Why would they want to take a "guaranteed" extra year on Smith if they know that both James and Love can go elsewhere? Maybe...just maybe...they actually don't use their personal dislike of JR Smith (and Shumpert) to cloud their judgment? Why are we assuming that Phil Jackson, the GM (not head coach but GM) is better than the Cavs GM at...well...GM'ing?

They did this because it got rid of Dion and got them a first round pick. JR is a negative value guy and Shump is an expiring they can dump. It came down to how much they disliked Dion not how much they liked Shump.

[R-DAWG]

Real life Perd Hapley.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/magicjohnson/status/552304887888084993[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/OrdioMongo/status/552306567232888832[/tweet]

When youah do stupid things, like prank cawls or curse awn da ayiah, it doesn't get awn the ayiah, ok. We ah awahn uh dul ay foah dat reason, ok.

[moocow007]

Dammit, I really wanted to get through the whole thread before responding, but I can't! Lol

Just want to say, those of you drawing the line in the sand at this free agency are only perpetuating the same crap we've gone through over and over again. Point is, if we can't get the targets we are aiming for, then you sign a couple of harmless short contracts, and try again the following year. There's no need to overpay some second rate player just because the NY pressure is telling you to do so.

At the very least we will have Melo and the rook next year. Only hoodwinking being done is by your damn selves if you think anyone can turn this mess of a franchise around in a season and change.

If Carmelo Anthony gets bitten by one of the Cullen's then I agree. We can keep trying.

[NOOB77]

The New York Knicks will have to compete with the Detroit Pistons and Milwaukee Bucks if they want to re-sign J.R. Smith, according to Ian Begley. The shooting guard is drawing interest from both teams, who hope to sign him away from the Knicks after his career year in New York.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/2/4488904/jr-smith-nba-free-agency-2013-jr-smith-knicks-bucks-pistons

When you are fighting with the Bucks and Pistons for a free agent with no other teams involved that should signal to a good front office that they should move on from said player.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Nobody was offering JR as much as we did. Dude was coming off a terrible playoffs and was damaged goods. We overpaid then signed his bum ass brother too. Grunnie got fleeced.

That was a terrible terrible signing.

[mpharris36]

So basically Lebron , the best player in the game, thought JR and Shump were better than Dion.

If that is the case I am sure others have the same train of thought in the nba.

players make terrible GM's. They have there biases.

Players play
Coaches Coach
Gm's GM

Melo is one of the best players in the league and he wanted us to draft Josh Selby. He has no clue.

[Deeeez Knicks]

The New York Knicks will have to compete with the Detroit Pistons and Milwaukee Bucks if they want to re-sign J.R. Smith, according to Ian Begley. The shooting guard is drawing interest from both teams, who hope to sign him away from the Knicks after his career year in New York.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/2/4488904/jr-smith-nba-free-agency-2013-jr-smith-knicks-bucks-pistons

When you are fighting with the Bucks and Pistons for a free agent with no other teams involved that should signal to a good front office that they should move on from said player.

[PMFJB]

Real life Perd Hapley.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/magicjohnson/status/552304887888084993[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/OrdioMongo/status/552306567232888832[/tweet]

When youah do stupid things, like prank cawls or curse awn da ayiah, it doesn't get awn the ayiah, ok. We ah awahn uh dul ay foah dat reason, ok.

My head hurt just trying to read what you wrote.

[F N 11]

What is this? actual rebuilding lol

[god shammgod]

you're changing the argument. you said nobody wanted him. the suns were interested too. you can find the link.

[R-DAWG]

Anyone who hates this deal clearly hasn't watched the last 15 years. We are finally rebuilding the right way. Clearing cap space and starting over with Melo still in his prime locked in. If we are able to get the first pick in the draft your looking at a completely different situation next year.

In all honesty rebuilding the right way would have been trading Melo for a bunch of picks/young players and having 2-3 lotto years while preserving long term cap space. Most likely you draft 1 star, acquire star 2 in a trade, and then star 3 via free agency. Rebuilding around a 31 year old with limited assets isn't exactly the "right way".

Landing the first pick in the draft and a potential franchise player changes the outlook of everything. Because the goal then becomes developing the young player than winning a championship with Melo.

[moocow007]

Shumpert isn't a can't miss asset. But he's a strong defender on an expiring contract. That is value.

Think about it. Why would a team with a better record want the 2 of them if they are such crap? Why would the Cavaliers want to take on a cancer and an injured dud? Why would they want to take a "guaranteed" extra year on Smith if they know that both James and Love can go elsewhere? Maybe...just maybe...they actually don't use their personal dislike of JR Smith (and Shumpert) to cloud their judgment? Why are we assuming that Phil Jackson, the GM (not head coach but GM) is better than the Cavs GM at...well...GM'ing?

They did this because it got rid of Dion and got them a first round pick. JR is a negative value guy and Shump is an expiring they can dump. It came down to how much they disliked Dion not how much they liked Shump.

Why would the Cavs who are trying to win now value a 1st round pick of the Thunder of all teams in the future? And if JR Smith is such a negative why would they want to replace Dion Waiters with him? JR Smith is a negative value right? The Cavs could have just bought a bottom of the barrel 1st round pick if they wanted to. They still have their $3 million allotment. Is the hair brained plan for them to buy another 1st round pick so they can have 2? And let's forget that the biggest problem with Waiters is his unwillingness to come off the bench which is something that JR Smith has done his entire career well. And we'll also forget that the Cavs biggest weakness is defending the perimeter which...oh...so...happens to be Shumpert's best (only) skill. The Cavs replace a guy that didn't fit their system because he wasn't willing to come off the bench for a guy that has done real well off the bench. They also managed to instantly upgrade their perimeter defense for when it matter most (the playoffs). But yep, the trade wasn't for Smith or Shumpert.

[R-DAWG]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/OrdioMongo/status/552306567232888832[/tweet]

When youah do stupid things, like prank cawls or curse awn da ayiah, it doesn't get awn the ayiah, ok. We ah awahn uh dul ay foah dat reason, ok.

My head hurt just trying to read what you wrote.

It's Franceser #mongonation speak. Back aftah dis

[R-DAWG]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/OrdioMongo/status/552306567232888832[/tweet]

When youah do stupid things, like prank cawls or curse awn da ayiah, it doesn't get awn the ayiah, ok. We ah awahn uh dul ay foah dat reason, ok.

My head hurt just trying to read what you wrote.

It's Franceser #mongonation speak. Back aftah dis

[Bklyn&company]

It is time for a change. It's time to stop taking on long term contracts like Jose Calderon. It's time to turn assets, like Tyson Chandler and Iman Shumpert, into 1st rd picks. It's time to stop putting all the eggs in one basket. Yes, it's time for change.

Bro you have to give something to get something and obviously the league didn't think they were worth 1st rd picks... so thats everyone's answer to woulda, coulda, shoulda. All eggs in one basket? What are talking about? He is providing himself with option... again complaining about every damn move... Phil has to clear this mess up to fix it... that means getting rid of mostly the old at any cost... you all could second guess his moves all day but in reality all of you don't have a clue how talks of trades really go down... so proceed and entertain yourselves on woulda, coulda and shoulda..

In business when there's a mess and new management comes in, the old is removed.. employees are let go (really means fired and don't let the door hit you on your way out), or demoted (really a tactic to force them to quit)... and this is done without anything in return, even though some were really great employee's...

When a field of crop is sicken, to start anew... the field must be burnet down (get rid of) as to prevent the old from coming back and infecting the new.

Phil added to the mess with Calderon.

Could have easily used the stretch provision on Smith and Felton

Tuned down a 1st rd pick for Shumpert during the draft

Turned an asset in Chandler into a long term liability - Calderon's contract.

All his eggs are in on free agency. If we miss we don't have the assets, without giving up our top 5 pick which in my mind is off limits, to improve the team.

Can still use the stretch on Jose ...but bro are you panicking? LOL

[mpharris36]

Nobody was offering JR as much as we did. Dude was coming off a terrible playoffs and was damaged goods. We overpaid then signed his bum ass brother too. Grunnie got fleeced.

That was a terrible terrible signing.

grunnie made some great signings and found some nice rotation players from no where but his contract offers were awful.

The deals he gave felton, JR, and Novak were atrocious deals. We had to trade pieces just to move all 3.

[MaseInYourFace]

I think Phil's gonna get the Glenn Sather treatment from Dolan. He's gonna have this job as long as he wants it. So I think fans would be best served to not be in such a rush...

[R-DAWG]

Shumpert isn't a can't miss asset. But he's a strong defender on an expiring contract. That is value.

Think about it. Why would a team with a better record want the 2 of them if they are such crap? Why would the Cavaliers want to take on a cancer and an injured dud? Why would they want to take a "guaranteed" extra year on Smith if they know that both James and Love can go elsewhere? Maybe...just maybe...they actually don't use their personal dislike of JR Smith (and Shumpert) to cloud their judgment? Why are we assuming that Phil Jackson, the GM (not head coach but GM) is better than the Cavs GM at...well...GM'ing?

They did this because it got rid of Dion and got them a first round pick. JR is a negative value guy and Shump is an expiring they can dump. It came down to how much they disliked Dion not how much they liked Shump.

Why would the Cavs who are trying to win now value a 1st round pick of the Thunder of all teams in the future? And if JR Smith is such a negative why would they want to replace Dion Waiters with him? JR Smith is a negative value right? The Cavs could have just bought a bottom of the barrel 1st round pick if they wanted to. They still have their $3 million allotment. Is the hair brained plan for them to buy another 1st round pick so they can have 2? And let's forget that the biggest problem with Waiters is his unwillingness to come off the bench which is something that JR Smith has done his entire career well. And we'll also forget that the Cavs biggest weakness is defending the perimeter which...oh...so...happens to be Shumpert's best (only) skill. But yep, the trade wasn't for Smith or Shumpert.

The Cavs could not have just bought a first rd pick, those picks don't sell for cash anymore. Additionally, they couldn't buy and trade a 1st rd pick in season.

The 1st round pick is an asset they can use in a trade. The pick + TPE could net them a Mozgov or Kufos in a trade potentially. The trade was for Shumpert because they needed a guy who could defend the perimeter and he was the best guy on the market. Smith might be an asset for them, might not. '

Getting that pick was the reason why CLE won this deal. Upgrades for the short term and long term.

[moocow007]

Anyone who hates this deal clearly hasn't watched the last 15 years. We are finally rebuilding the right way. Clearing cap space and starting over with Melo still in his prime locked in. If we are able to get the first pick in the draft your looking at a completely different situation next year.

In all honesty rebuilding the right way would have been trading Melo for a bunch of picks/young players and having 2-3 lotto years while preserving long term cap space. Most likely you draft 1 star, acquire star 2 in a trade, and then star 3 via free agency. Rebuilding around a 31 year old with limited assets isn't exactly the "right way".

Landing the first pick in the draft and a potential franchise player changes the outlook of everything. Because the goal then becomes developing the young player than winning a championship with Melo.

That is correct. If the Knicks were rebuilding (and there's real valid arguments for them to do so) the first thing would be to trade Carmelo Anthony. But it's pretty clear whether it's by Jackson or Dolan that they are building around him.

[R-DAWG]

Bro you have to give something to get something and obviously the league didn't think they were worth 1st rd picks... so thats everyone's answer to woulda, coulda, shoulda. All eggs in one basket? What are talking about? He is providing himself with option... again complaining about every damn move... Phil has to clear this mess up to fix it... that means getting rid of mostly the old at any cost... you all could second guess his moves all day but in reality all of you don't have a clue how talks of trades really go down... so proceed and entertain yourselves on woulda, coulda and shoulda..

In business when there's a mess and new management comes in, the old is removed.. employees are let go (really means fired and don't let the door hit you on your way out), or demoted (really a tactic to force them to quit)... and this is done without anything in return, even though some were really great employee's...

When a field of crop is sicken, to start anew... the field must be burnet down (get rid of) as to prevent the old from coming back and infecting the new.

Phil added to the mess with Calderon.

Could have easily used the stretch provision on Smith and Felton

Tuned down a 1st rd pick for Shumpert during the draft

Turned an asset in Chandler into a long term liability - Calderon's contract.

All his eggs are in on free agency. If we miss we don't have the assets, without giving up our top 5 pick which in my mind is off limits, to improve the team.

Can still use the stretch on Jose ...but bro are you panicking? LOL

But the stretch for Jose is almost double the stretch for JR/Felton combined. Also, could have gotten value for Shumpert and Tyson