Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank

[Cookies4Life]

It will be hard to the Knicks to Keep Frank for next season. He has a lot of potential but he will take time do develop his offensive skills. There are a few reasons to get rid of him.

1) With the arrival of Durant or other big FA, we will be a win now team. It will be hard to keep a player in the rotation that cant help in the offensive end. We will not be a patient team for sure.

2) We will probably need to clear cap space to sign big FAs as up to 71M. We will have around 70/74M of cap space depending on our pick position without Trier or Kornet on the roster. If we can trade Frank for a late FRP (like the THJr trade for Grant), we can sign one of these players and keep a cheaper project for the future.

3) Signing Durant and Irving will give the FO a reason to persuade trades for veteran star players like AD, Beal, etc. Frank is a good asset and he will be our second bigger non star salary, with much value in any trade to match salaries. Rebuilding teams can be more patient to the development of Franks offensive skills.

You're selling very low on Frank for a late FRP.

His value will truly show next season if this team acquires two superstars. There's only one ball to go around and his low usage rating combined with his elite defensive abilities will make him a very valuable commodity for this team moving forward.

Aside from seeing him get a lot more minutes for the remainder of the season, I'd like to see him put up double digit FGA's nightly. I think a decent amount of his inefficiency comes from the fact he doesn't shoot more than 6-8 FGA's per game; it's hard to get in a groove when your FGA's are scarce and you're constantly shuffled in and out of a lineup.

I think a good amount of his shooting woes are confidence related and there's no better way to instill belief in him than by playing him a good amount for the rest of the season and letting him play through his mistakes. His form on his jumper looks too good for him to be so inconsistent up to this point.

[Nazrmohamed]

I'm all for getting a look at a Frank/DSJr backcourt, but I've already seen what it looks like.

It looks like the minutes that Kadeem Allen and DSJr have gotten together. Not a ton, but they've been out there together a few times.

And I'm a fan of Frank, and also, I think it's just reasonable to give him another year, if only because if he can add some offense to his defense, that's a nice rotational player. Also the sort that fits in well with star scorers (same w/ Kadeem)

But let's be honest, for these last 25 games, while the Knicks SHOULD feature DSJr and Frank together and probably will (who really knows with Fiz, tbh), again, we know what it looks like.

It looks like Kadeem\DSJr, only not as good, as Kadeem, with 6 more years of age, is better at being aggressive, getting into the lane, is a good passer himself and his shot is good/decent in the short/mid and longer range.

So, it'll be the same thing, only with less shot making and less breaking down the D from Frank.

Also, if there's anything that might be good about pairing the two, other than brief glimpses of how it might work when the both click (but particularly Frank) is if there was enough movement to run DSJr around some, while Frank was the more primary distributor on those possessions. But Fiz's offense lacks movement, other than some curls for Dotson and once in a blue Knox, so I what I expect to see is DSJr with the ball in his hands 90% of the time (instead of 50 or 60%) breaking down the D, Frank's guy shading off him into the paint, Frank getting the ball, which the defense wants - like when LFT gets it a lot, and Frank missing the open jumper.

Might as well. The reps will help Frank, DSJr should continue to get off the ball training as well, this situation should assist whichever one of them isn't traded in the offseason after Kyrie signs.

i think frank is a more talented passer/facilitator than kadeem. but i think that's a good point. kadeem is further along in his development and is getting a chance to show it on the big stage.

DSJ/frank have the potential to cause trouble in an unselfish, ball-moving backcourt. frank just needs to work on improving his scoring in that context.

if we want kadeem, he should be available to us for depth on a minimum-type deal next season. i don't think any other team is breaking the bank for him. what should be the man issue for kadeem is which team will give him the most PT. being a third stringer on the knicks isn't a great idea for a guy who'll be 27 next year. he needs a jonathon simmons kind of situation where his abilities are recognized to the point he gets paid too. dude's been playing damn near for free for a long time.

Frank could learn from Kadeem, in terms of aggressiveness, but also some of his "inbetween" moves between the short jumper and a layup. And the floater game from Knox.
Not that Kadeem has some amazing game in the "inbetween" - he's solid all over. But I just think that with his height, there are certain shots that are available for Frank all game long - bunny jumpers foul line in, floaters and push shots in the lane. It's a bit much to ask, but I wish he'd learn to post guys up and add a slight fadeaway jumper. There's been a handful of post ups.

Also, I know guards are supposed to be able to just "get theirs" but I find it annoying when people denigrate the fact that Frank needs a pick to free him up. Most guards in the NBA need it to some degree. Obviously Frank needs it a lot. But the fact that Fiz doesn't run the P&R in the same way even Jefe did, just bothers me. It's like having this version of Mitch and making him post up all game because "that's what bigs do". Run the plays that play to the player's abilities.

That's too much IMO. To me when you want to develop a player you start within thier very own skillset. Nothing new. Once they've mastered the very skillset they showed up with then little by little we can expand.

For example Frank's skillset today is as follows. Hes a defensive guard with a limited handle who simply wants to get the ball into the hands of his teams best player or dribble in place while watching a play develop, usually for guys more prolific than him who come around screens and curls.
That's his game today. He ain't breaking down a defense with guys waiting with extended arms for the kick out. Or being an aggressive scorer out of that platform. Frank is a caretaker PG. Others will either move to get open or post up and hell get out to them mistake free.

And that ain't a knock. I can list many title winning PGs who did just that, in fact I'll show you that more pgs have won like that than the modern fad of pgs needing to score 20+. But should you take this course of action you must develop the following
- a reliable jumpshot. You're gonna take maybe 8 shots all game, you better hit 4. And at least 2 of the 4 need to be 3 pointers. There is no way around this. Others create, you sag. You sag... then you better be able to hit open shots.

Dereck Fisher- hit open shots
Chauncy Billups- hit open shots
Mario Chalmers-hit open shots
Old Jason Kidd- hit open shots

You gotta hit open shots. We cant move further until this is mastered. Then we can expand to cutting to the basket. You like drinking the ball to more prolific players? Then you gotta be able to cut next.

[thebuzzardman]

i think frank is a more talented passer/facilitator than kadeem. but i think that's a good point. kadeem is further along in his development and is getting a chance to show it on the big stage.

DSJ/frank have the potential to cause trouble in an unselfish, ball-moving backcourt. frank just needs to work on improving his scoring in that context.

if we want kadeem, he should be available to us for depth on a minimum-type deal next season. i don't think any other team is breaking the bank for him. what should be the man issue for kadeem is which team will give him the most PT. being a third stringer on the knicks isn't a great idea for a guy who'll be 27 next year. he needs a jonathon simmons kind of situation where his abilities are recognized to the point he gets paid too. dude's been playing damn near for free for a long time.

Frank could learn from Kadeem, in terms of aggressiveness, but also some of his "inbetween" moves between the short jumper and a layup. And the floater game from Knox.
Not that Kadeem has some amazing game in the "inbetween" - he's solid all over. But I just think that with his height, there are certain shots that are available for Frank all game long - bunny jumpers foul line in, floaters and push shots in the lane. It's a bit much to ask, but I wish he'd learn to post guys up and add a slight fadeaway jumper. There's been a handful of post ups.

Also, I know guards are supposed to be able to just "get theirs" but I find it annoying when people denigrate the fact that Frank needs a pick to free him up. Most guards in the NBA need it to some degree. Obviously Frank needs it a lot. But the fact that Fiz doesn't run the P&R in the same way even Jefe did, just bothers me. It's like having this version of Mitch and making him post up all game because "that's what bigs do". Run the plays that play to the player's abilities.

That's too much IMO. To me when you want to develop a player you start within thier very own skillset. Nothing new. Once they've mastered the very skillset they showed up with then little by little we can expand.

For example Frank's skillset today is as follows. Hes a defensive guard with a limited handle who simply wants to get the ball into the hands of his teams best player or dribble in place while watching a play develop, usually for guys more prolific than him who come around screens and curls.
That's his game today. He ain't breaking down a defense with guys waiting with extended arms for the kick out. Or being an aggressive scorer out of that platform. Frank is a caretaker PG. Others will either move to get open or post up and hell get out to them mistake free.

And that ain't a knock. I can list many title winning PGs who did just that, in fact I'll show you that more pgs have won like that than the modern fad of pgs needing to score 20+. But should you take this course of action you must develop the following
- a reliable jumpshot. You're gonna take maybe 8 shots all game, you better hit 4. And at least 2 of the 4 need to be 3 pointers. There is no way around this. Others create, you sag. You sag... then you better be able to hit open shots.

Dereck Fisher- hit open shots
Chauncy Billups- hit open shots
Mario Chalmers-hit open shots
Old Jason Kidd- hit open shots

You gotta hit open shots. We cant move further until this is mastered. Then we can expand to cutting to the basket. You like drinking the ball to more prolific players? Then you gotta be able to cut next.

Yeah, but nothing I said negates that. In enough of my posts I've said Frank needs to knock down jumpers. A sample of things I've said over the last few years is:

Frank needs to start making open jumpers. That's the minimum to being a contributing NBA player.
Frank and DSJr might work, but not until Frank makes jumpers.

And, more to the point, even right around when he was drafted, I said things like "he's more like a Derek Harper PG" in that he's a bigger, defensive PG, but his ceiling will be that of a bigger guard who's outside shot sets up his drives and not the other way around. Once his jumper is really reliable, he'll use height and craft to get into the lane, at times"

All I'm pointing out is there are some moves that Frank can learn from Kadeem, and Knox, that fit with a non explosive taller guard. In fact, Frank's already been doing some of them - he should just do them a little more.

Also, pointing all that stuff out is really about things he'll add over a few years, at least.

Much different, more dominant player, but that's how Ewings career went - he added a thing each off season, for the first 4 or 5 years. Year 3 he added that Cartwright runner in the lane, as an example.

Also, getting consistent with the deeper shot isn't inconsistent or incompatible with Frank utilizing his height to hit short jumpers FT line and a few feet in.

[Jeff Van Gully]

I met dennis smith at mountain ice event in charlotte yesterday nice guy , dennis did say he was excited to see him and frank play, said it was going to be interesting.

what was the conversation like?

taj: yo DSJ i love your game so happy your a knick and are you going to be playing with frank? i think frank needs to average 10 points and 5 assists.

DSJ: *alarmed* yeah, frank my guy. i look forward to playing with him the rest of this season.

taj: https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2019/02/08/new-york-knicks-frank-ntilikina-excited-play-dennis-smith-jr/2812807002/

DSJ: *still nervous* that's what's up.

taj: https://www.fantasypros.com/nba/news/200923/dennis-smith-jr-drops-career-high-31-points.php

DSJ: *blank stare*

taj:

Watch on YouTube

DSJ: here's a mountain dew ice. nice to meet you, bro. *darts across room*

edit: taj, i'm f---ing with you, man.

[taj2133]

I met dennis smith at mountain ice event in charlotte yesterday nice guy , dennis did say he was excited to see him and frank play, said it was going to be interesting.

what was the conversation like?

taj: yo DSJ i love your game so happy your a knick and are you going to be playing with frank? i think frank needs to average 10 points and 5 assists.

DSJ: *alarmed* yeah, frank my guy. i look forward to playing with him the rest of this season.

taj: https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2019/02/08/new-york-knicks-frank-ntilikina-excited-play-dennis-smith-jr/2812807002/

DSJ: *still nervous* that's what's up.
LoL i really wanted to say that but he had secruity guards around him so i didn't want to be negative and look like he was having a good time.
taj: https://www.fantasypros.com/nba/news/200923/dennis-smith-jr-drops-career-high-31-points.php

DSJ: *blank stare*

taj:

Watch on YouTube

DSJ: here's a mountain dew ice. nice to meet you, bro. *darts across room*

edit: taj, i'm f---ing with you, man.

[taj2133]

Read on Twitter

[Nazrmohamed]

Frank could learn from Kadeem, in terms of aggressiveness, but also some of his "inbetween" moves between the short jumper and a layup. And the floater game from Knox.
Not that Kadeem has some amazing game in the "inbetween" - he's solid all over. But I just think that with his height, there are certain shots that are available for Frank all game long - bunny jumpers foul line in, floaters and push shots in the lane. It's a bit much to ask, but I wish he'd learn to post guys up and add a slight fadeaway jumper. There's been a handful of post ups.

Also, I know guards are supposed to be able to just "get theirs" but I find it annoying when people denigrate the fact that Frank needs a pick to free him up. Most guards in the NBA need it to some degree. Obviously Frank needs it a lot. But the fact that Fiz doesn't run the P&R in the same way even Jefe did, just bothers me. It's like having this version of Mitch and making him post up all game because "that's what bigs do". Run the plays that play to the player's abilities.

That's too much IMO. To me when you want to develop a player you start within thier very own skillset. Nothing new. Once they've mastered the very skillset they showed up with then little by little we can expand.

For example Frank's skillset today is as follows. Hes a defensive guard with a limited handle who simply wants to get the ball into the hands of his teams best player or dribble in place while watching a play develop, usually for guys more prolific than him who come around screens and curls.
That's his game today. He ain't breaking down a defense with guys waiting with extended arms for the kick out. Or being an aggressive scorer out of that platform. Frank is a caretaker PG. Others will either move to get open or post up and hell get out to them mistake free.

And that ain't a knock. I can list many title winning PGs who did just that, in fact I'll show you that more pgs have won like that than the modern fad of pgs needing to score 20+. But should you take this course of action you must develop the following
- a reliable jumpshot. You're gonna take maybe 8 shots all game, you better hit 4. And at least 2 of the 4 need to be 3 pointers. There is no way around this. Others create, you sag. You sag... then you better be able to hit open shots.

Dereck Fisher- hit open shots
Chauncy Billups- hit open shots
Mario Chalmers-hit open shots
Old Jason Kidd- hit open shots

You gotta hit open shots. We cant move further until this is mastered. Then we can expand to cutting to the basket. You like drinking the ball to more prolific players? Then you gotta be able to cut next.

Yeah, but nothing I said negates that. In enough of my posts I've said Frank needs to knock down jumpers. A sample of things I've said over the last few years is:

Frank needs to start making open jumpers. That's the minimum to being a contributing NBA player.
Frank and DSJr might work, but not until Frank makes jumpers.

And, more to the point, even right around when he was drafted, I said things like "he's more like a Derek Harper PG" in that he's a bigger, defensive PG, but his ceiling will be that of a bigger guard who's outside shot sets up his drives and not the other way around. Once his jumper is really reliable, he'll use height and craft to get into the lane, at times"

All I'm pointing out is there are some moves that Frank can learn from Kadeem, and Knox, that fit with a non explosive taller guard. In fact, Frank's already been doing some of them - he should just do them a little more.

Also, pointing all that stuff out is really about things he'll add over a few years, at least.

Much different, more dominant player, but that's how Ewings career went - he added a thing each off season, for the first 4 or 5 years. Year 3 he added that Cartwright runner in the lane, as an example.

Also, getting consistent with the deeper shot isn't inconsistent or incompatible with Frank utilizing his height to hit short jumpers FT line and a few feet in.

Cant complain about any of that. Good job. But can we agree on something? He needs to hurry the F up and I alluded to it in a previous post but it's nice and all Frank says the right thing and wants to play the right way. I've been a sales manager most of my life and you get a bunch of producers and sometimes they get alittle cocky and wild. Then you have that one guy who does things the right way and its refreshing. But it's sad to say that many times that second guy just ain't all that good. Says the right things, stays late, puts in alot of effort but just dont have it. I still appreciate that from Frank but hes gotta start producing. It's just that simple. I'm a big fan of what I imagine him to be as a finished product but it's all hypothetical at this point. At this point hes got a long way to go to even be a Derreck Harper and there's alot of guys who tell you you're crazy for waiting so long for a PG who's max is a player who be considered outdated in todays NBA. I'd love to prove them wrong but Frank's not giving me alot of help here. Its frickin hard man.

If anything maybe the best thing for Frank to do is double down. So what does that mean? I'm saying people think hes got one good skill, well then it better be THE BEST. Talk of his defense being totally overrated have been exaggerated for effect usually by posters pissed he ain't scoring, but I'm saying double down. Hes gotta be the most annoying harasser of perimeter players the league has seen. Patrick Beverly aint got nothing on me, know what I'm saying?

.... and then still 3000 jump shots a day.

[robillionaire]

Looks like he’s still injured

[Knicksfan20]

Our new backcourt going to look great in New Orleans

[Jeff Van Gully]

Read on Twitter

[thebuzzardman]

Read on Twitter

Fiz just wants a few days of that Mudiay\DSJr backcourt before bringing Frank back

[taj2133]

Frank hasn't been clear to practice according to ny post
Knicks coach David Fizdale has plenty of problems to sort through as he navigates through this futile season of losing. But lacking options at point guard isn’t one of them.

One point guard (Emmanuel Mudiay) is set to return Friday, another (Frank Ntilikina) will get reevaluated that day, and Fizdale already has Dennis Smith Jr. and Kadeem Allen at his disposal.

In the near future, Fizdale could have more than a third as many point guards (four) as wins (11). But he sees this as a good problem to have, and plans to use them in tandem together.

“Same way I was doing it with Kadeem and Dennis, mixing and matching different guys, and that’s the way I’ll probably get to a place with them,” Fizdale on Wednesday, following the Knicks’ first practice after the All-Star break. “It’s been kind of that [way] all year with different positions and different situations so we’ll figure it out.”

The scope of the position changed when the Knicks acquired Smith from the Mavericks in the Kristaps Porzingis trade on Jan. 31. Fizdale has raved about him, saying, “I want to put the ball in his hands a lot,” and Smith has put up quality numbers since coming to the Knicks, averaging 17 points and six assists in seven games.

It remains uncertain where that leaves the 22-year-old Mudiay. He had started 32 straight games before straining his left shoulder on Jan. 23 against the Rockets, and was averaging career-highs of 14.7 points per game and 45 percent shooting from the field, along with 3.9 assists and 3.1 rebounds.

He was expected to be out only a few weeks, but instead the one-time lottery pick missed 12 games, and returns with his role undefined. When asked if Mudiay would be in the rotation on Friday against the Timberwolves, Fizdale said the coaching staff had discussed it, but declined to offer any details of their plans.

Ntilikina has also missed 10 games with a strained groin, and has yet to return to practice. With both out, Allen, who signed a two-way contract in January with the Knicks, performed well when given a chance, averaging 10.1 points, 4.5 assists and shooting 50 percent from 3-point range in 10 games.


A free-agent-to-be, Mudiay will be battling Smith, who could be the point guard of the future, and Ntilikina, the team’s first-round pick a year ago, for minutes. Mudiay did like the idea of sharing the backcourt with the athletically electric Smith.

“No doubt, Dennis is great at getting downhill, creating for others, and it just gives us two ball handlers out there,” Mudiay said. “Me and him got a pretty good relationship already.”

The 6-foot-5 Mudiay sidestepped questions about potentially being displaced by the 6-3 Smith, preferring to focus on the positives, like his health, return to the court and getting to play with newcomer DeAndre Jordan, a role model of his. He’s just eager to get back out there, for however long that may be on a given night.

“I just want to play basketball,” Mudiay said. “That’s not my job. I’m going to let coach handle that however he wants to do it. I just want to have fun playing the game.”
https://nypost.com/2019/02/20/david-fizdales-challenge-solve-knicks-point-guard-puzzle/

[iLLmatic860]

I think Frank should just be start at sg the rest of the season when he clears. We need to just ride it out with those 2. Have Mudiay play a 6th man role

[Jeff Van Gully]

Read on Twitter

Fiz just wants a few days of that Mudiay\DSJr backcourt before bringing Frank back

yeah, that's not what i find funny.

[thebuzzardman]

Fiz just wants a few days of that Mudiay\DSJr backcourt before bringing Frank back

yeah, that's not what i find funny.

Oh. What's up?

[1999]

Consider me crazy but I actually am curious to see the pairing with dsj and mudiay. Frank can either play off the bench with Kadeem Allen or primary pg or be a starter with dsj and mudiay as a sf.


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[thebuzzardman]

Consider me crazy but I actually am curious to see the pairing with dsj and mudiay. Frank can either play off the bench with Kadeem Allen or primary pg or be a starter with dsj and mudiay as a sf.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In a sense, it's not going to be much better or worse (except defensively - who cares!) than Frank with DSJr, as Frank doesn't have the reliable jumper to make the pairing work with DSJr work either, at the moment. I think people were interested just to see what it looked like, in terms of the him being the secondary creator, plus DSJr getting the break as primary creator.

But ultimately, it's not some giant loss of basketball goodness. Other than it's vaguely annoying Fiz pushes Mudiay so much when he won't be back.

Or will he, after the Knicks trade one or both of Frank and DSJr?

[NYKAL]

guys still got issues about Muiday playing over Frank but, the fact is Frank never separated himself from the pack which I expected because the guy was already experienced playing with adults in France. In fact his stat are pretty much the same as those he had in France. Other than a slight improvement in his ball handling, I haven't really seen any improvement in Franks game.

That said, the team plays better when he's on the floor, playing off the ball. On ball, he is too passive.

[reub]

Is Frank made of glass? It's getting a little ridiculous.

[thebuzzardman]

Is Frank made of glass? It's getting a little ridiculous.