OT: Democratic Primary Thread

[GONYK]

So the big bombshell that McAuliffe was "caught" admitting is that the Biden team is completely fine letting Trump self-immolate while Biden can give strategically targeted speeches instead of full-scale campaigning?

Looking at the polling numbers, the only thing McAuliffe is admitting to in that clip is intelligence.

That's why the whole "mainstream media manufactures consent against Bernie" stuff is kind of nonsense. The progressive media puts out red meat like that, and that also manufactures consent into accepting the premise that Biden is failing right now when all evidence in the actual world says differently.

Krystal and Sagar and Cristo Avalis, etc... are no different than Fox News and Glen Beck just because you like the direction of their slant more.

It's not just about slant when you reference Chomsky, scope and reach of messaging is key. While I do think social media communities fall into bubbles that kinda apply as microcosms of the concept; you'd have to expand big time on the reach and impact to get to the types of widespread acceptance you need for the idea behind manufactured consent.

You can't really compare the AM radio machine and the most watched news channel in a nation to some Youtube shows because the reach matters. Manufacturing consent isn't Jimmy Dore screaming about "the Dems" with ridiculous half-truths; it's Florida's state government turning the phrase "Climate Change" into the "Voldemort" and refusing to let any official documents use the wording. Both have slants, one just has a helluva lot more impact.

Also, every time someone brings up manufacturing consent, I like to callback to the citations needed podcast. You can find their breakdowns with citations and expert input about all sorts of different media messaging mechanisms. The latest few episodes have covered aspects of media treating the Floyd protests and the last one is all about the cancellations of reality Police shows which we laughed about yesterday. But they show the weight of those shows which is pretty cool.

https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/news-brief-the-growing-pushback-to-copaganda

Thanks for the info. I don't disagree with what you laid out. Let me rephrase.

I'm speaking about the way manufactured consent has been thrown around in this thread.

Was there some bias against Bernie from CNN, MSNBC, etc...? For the sake of argument, I'll say probably.

Does that mean that Krystal Ball, Jimmy Dore, Cristo Avalis are the antidote? No. Very far from it.

Do those people have the same reach as cable shows? No, but I think they have same effect on an individual when consumed intensely.

It still divorces the consumer from objective reality and spares the viewer from any real introspection to draw their own conclusions.

When it's consumed intensely by an entire segment, it manufactures consent within that segment.

I'll definitely check out that podcast though.

[GONYK]

Read on Twitter

This was interesting to me

29% of the respondents prefer Harris for Biden’s running mate; 28% prefer Abrams; 24% prefer former national security advisor Susan Rice, and 20% prefer U.S. Rep. Val Demings of Florida

[Clyde_Style]

Read on Twitter

This was interesting to me

29% of the respondents prefer Harris for Biden’s running mate; 28% prefer Abrams; 24% prefer former national security advisor Susan Rice, and 20% prefer U.S. Rep. Val Demings of Florida

In that case, I can see how Harris would get the nod over Demings. I still doubt Abrams is seriously under consideration due to experience level. And I have no reason they'd choose Rice either. She'd be like Benghazi catnip for the looney toons.

[HarthorneWingo]

So the corpse of Joe Biden wants to reform police department BY INCREASING FUNDING FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT BY $300 MILLION. Biden, The Architect of "The Old Deal." FOH

https://theintercept.com/2020/06/11/defund-the-police-joe-biden-cops/

[Clyde_Style]

So the corpse of Joe Biden wants to reform police department BY INCREASING FUNDING FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT BY $300 MILLION. Biden, The Architect of "The Old Deal." FOH

https://theintercept.com/2020/06/11/defund-the-police-joe-biden-cops/

“to reinvigorate community policing in our country.”

but why bother actually talking about concrete facts when you can cherry pick headlines and call him a corpse?

[j4remi]

Thanks for the info. I don't disagree with what you laid out. Let me rephrase.

I'm speaking about the way manufactured consent has been thrown around in this thread.

Was there some bias against Bernie from CNN, MSNBC, etc...? For the sake of argument, I'll say probably.

Does that mean that Krystal Ball, Jimmy Dore, Cristo Avalis are the antidote? No. Very far from it.

Do those people have the same reach as cable shows? No, but I think they have same effect on an individual when consumed intensely.

It still divorces the consumer from objective reality and spares the viewer from any real introspection to draw their own conclusions.

When it's consumed intensely by an entire segment, it manufactures consent within that segment.

I'll definitely check out that podcast though.

I understand what you're getting at for sure too fam. I like Rising for it's second half where they have panels since that's still opinion based but the opinions are challenged (and they typically have a good mix of views vocally represented). I'm flat out not a fan of Jimmy Dore, I think he hurts as many causes as he helps if not being straight up MORE detrimental than helpful.

What you're getting at which is problematic all over our information sources is that everyone has begun blending editorializing with reporting the news. I DEF co-sign that and don't think editorials should misconstrued to be the same as manufacturing consent by anybody on the left, right or center. The Chomsky thing would run more along the lines of looking at systemic problems over individual ones. A bad clip or news show can't manufacture consent on its own; but the claim that Biden received 70 million dollars worth of free positive press across national media from the time between South Carolina and Super Tuesday would be more along the lines of a discussion topic (And hell yes there's a ton of context worth bringing into that discussion which could effect how you observe that free press).

To break off of the election itself, better and clearer examples are usually in entertainment media. The DoD having input on movie scripts is one I always think of. Or the normalization of torture as effective in movies like Zero Dark Thirty and shows like 24. Or even more broadly; entertainment tropes...the black gangster, the Muslim terrorist, the Russian spy...when a minority is only represented as the bad guys. That sorta stuff is the clearest example because it's so easily recognizable from our recent history.

All of this isn't just for you but anybody else that's curious about the concept btw. I just find it hella interesting and really worth exploring when we discuss how opinions are shaped and if heads are missing the base on it, I'd love to clarify to the best of my ability (for a great episode of that podcast they have one about the media's use of "common sense" which is really good).

And Now a quick list for anyone who wants to hear better leftist representation:
Majority Report - An hour with an academic or expert and then an hour of free for all call-ins that can be discussions or debates, all comers are welcome. It's super informative and if I had to pick one person to debate lefty issues, it'd be Sam Seder as representative.

The Michael Brooks Show - Majority Report offchute that focuses more on global politics. Michael was a huge voice in the Free Lula push and one of, if not the first American media personality to get an interview with Lula when he was freed. Also, his impressions that clash famous political personalities with extreme ideals are absolute gold. Nation of Islam Obama are Right-Wing Mandela are great satire.

Economic Update - Lefty Economic Theories from Professor Richard Wolff.

Ben Dixon - For my money, the best podcast from a black leftist. Cole James Cash (Ghetto News Network) is dope too, but much more informal.

David Pakman - Pretty firmly builds his show around citing articles and studies. Sometimes has blinders on foreign affairs imo.

Those are my reliables.

[GONYK]

So the corpse of Joe Biden wants to reform police department BY INCREASING FUNDING FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT BY $300 MILLION. Biden, The Architect of "The Old Deal." FOH

https://theintercept.com/2020/06/11/defund-the-police-joe-biden-cops/

“to reinvigorate community policing in our country.”

but why bother actually talking about concrete facts when you can cherry pick headlines and call him a corpse?

From the same article:

“I do not support defunding police,” Biden wrote in an op-ed for USA Today. “The better answer is to give police departments the resources they need to implement meaningful reforms, and to condition other federal dollars on completing those reforms. … Every single police department should have the money they need to institute real reforms.”

As the force of the defund police movement has taken some by surprise, Biden has hardly been the only politician to seek to defend the status quo. Even his one-time rival, Sen. Bernie Sanders, indicated in a recent interview that he objected calls to defund the police. “I think we want to redefine what police departments do, give them the support they need to make their jobs better defined,” said Sanders. “So I do believe that we need well-trained, well-educated, and well-paid professionals in police departments.”

So does the corpse of Bernie Sanders also have a hand in the "Old Deal"?

[j4remi]

From the same article:

“I do not support defunding police,” Biden wrote in an op-ed for USA Today. “The better answer is to give police departments the resources they need to implement meaningful reforms, and to condition other federal dollars on completing those reforms. … Every single police department should have the money they need to institute real reforms.”

As the force of the defund police movement has taken some by surprise, Biden has hardly been the only politician to seek to defend the status quo. Even his one-time rival, Sen. Bernie Sanders, indicated in a recent interview that he objected calls to defund the police. “I think we want to redefine what police departments do, give them the support they need to make their jobs better defined,” said Sanders. “So I do believe that we need well-trained, well-educated, and well-paid professionals in police departments.”

So does the CORPSE of Bernie Sanders also have a hand in the "Old Deal"?

You think we can't call Bernie out when he whiffs on a chance to lead the way on an issue?

Both of those responses reflect the same talking past the defund movement's main goal that I keep complaining about. Defund's whole focus is to cut already bloated police budgets and reallocate those funds. The language that treats them like they lack resources to reform is where the concern comes from, because it sounds like they miss the point. I think it was Pelosi who actually mentioned reallocation in her response, at least she got that in there. She threw the defund proponents a bone. Either way, the defund concept is to just use the resources they've got to reform. Not try to pay them even more to make the problems go away. Community policing is a good step for sure though as I've said.

Anyway, here's how a leader can actually help define the defund movement without coming across like they want to end all policing. I think she nailed it and this took all of five minutes:

Read on Twitter

[Clyde_Style]

I'm dying

Read on Twitter

[Pointgod]

I was very disappointed to read that Biden was against defunding the police. Fine, I understand the term "defunding" is not politically palatable according to some (just like Obamacare, just like Medicare for All, blasi blasi) so whatever. But he could've just answered the question in the positive way one would when you actually support the policy results you're trying to achieve in your future administration. You just don't use the word "defunding."

Instead, you talk about addressing the needs in today's changing world in which the overall crime rate around the world is dropping. It's not just here because we over-police everything which further encourages idiots to weaponize it like that white woman did in Central Park with the black gentleman (Head of the Audubon Society! I still can't get over that coincidence) who wanted to bird watch. You all know the story. Crime is down all over the world. Therefore, it has nothing to do with increased police presence.

I know I must sound like a broken record but they did a study here on Long Island and found on 50% of all police "incidents" are traffic-related, i.e. rolling through stop signs, failing to signal, running a red light, speeding, reckless driving, driving under the influence, and traffic accidents. Actually, police don't respond to running red lights here anymore because of all the intersectional red light cameras. So why do we need to spend all that money on a militarized police department. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be specialized units to respond to violent crimes like burglaries, robberies, sexual assaults but many of those are investigated after the fact by detectives. Maybe if we spent more money on education and community development programs, we wouldn't see as many gangs. Maybe if we spent more money on mental health programs across the country, OMG, we could save so many lives. Instead, we keep on shuffling them through the criminal justice system which just makes everything worse.

This is politics 101. Defunding the police is such a loaded phrase, why would Biden create a sound bite for Trump? It doesn’t actually make any sense in the context of the Federal government. The most impactful police reforms need to come at the local level. The Federal government can setup guidelines and conditions which Biden talked about. Banning chokeholds, consent decrees which **** work, tying Federal dollars to police reforms, ending sending military equipment to police departments. A national database and national use of force standards are all things Democrat’s and Biden have proposed that will make a difference at the Federal level. Any type of funding changes needs to be done locally and a President can’t affect that so there’s really no need to align to defunding the police.

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

This was interesting to me

29% of the respondents prefer Harris for Biden’s running mate; 28% prefer Abrams; 24% prefer former national security advisor Susan Rice, and 20% prefer U.S. Rep. Val Demings of Florida

The protests and reinvigoration of the youth is an ally pop to the Biden campaign. They need to take advantage of this and put a black woman on the ticket with the platform of restorative justice and racial equity. I think Val Demings is a very interesting choice since she was a former police chief and if she can deliver Florida Trump is absolutely ****. But then Kamal’s pretty much checks off all the boxes and is ready to step in day 1.

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

[Kampuchea]

So the corpse of Joe Biden wants to reform police department BY INCREASING FUNDING FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT BY $300 MILLION. Biden, The Architect of "The Old Deal." FOH

https://theintercept.com/2020/06/11/defund-the-police-joe-biden-cops/

He shouldn’t be running a country, he needs to be in a senior care facility.

[Clyde_Style]

Read on Twitter

Really?

In that case I'm not going

[robillionaire]

Read on Twitter

This was interesting to me

29% of the respondents prefer Harris for Biden’s running mate; 28% prefer Abrams; 24% prefer former national security advisor Susan Rice, and 20% prefer U.S. Rep. Val Demings of Florida

The protests and reinvigoration of the youth is an ally pop to the Biden campaign. They need to take advantage of this and put a black woman on the ticket with the platform of restorative justice and racial equity. I think Val Demings is a very interesting choice since she was a former police chief and if she can deliver Florida Trump is absolutely ****. But then Kamal’s pretty much checks off all the boxes and is ready to step in day 1.

how is nominating cops taking advantage of the protests

[GONYK]

From the same article:

“I do not support defunding police,” Biden wrote in an op-ed for USA Today. “The better answer is to give police departments the resources they need to implement meaningful reforms, and to condition other federal dollars on completing those reforms. … Every single police department should have the money they need to institute real reforms.”

As the force of the defund police movement has taken some by surprise, Biden has hardly been the only politician to seek to defend the status quo. Even his one-time rival, Sen. Bernie Sanders, indicated in a recent interview that he objected calls to defund the police. “I think we want to redefine what police departments do, give them the support they need to make their jobs better defined,” said Sanders. “So I do believe that we need well-trained, well-educated, and well-paid professionals in police departments.”

So does the CORPSE of Bernie Sanders also have a hand in the "Old Deal"?

You think we can't call Bernie out when he whiffs on a chance to lead the way on an issue?

Both of those responses reflect the same talking past the defund movement's main goal that I keep complaining about. Defund's whole focus is to cut already bloated police budgets and reallocate those funds. The language that treats them like they lack resources to reform is where the concern comes from, because it sounds like they miss the point. I think it was Pelosi who actually mentioned reallocation in her response, at least she got that in there. She threw the defund proponents a bone. Either way, the defund concept is to just use the resources they've got to reform. Not try to pay them even more to make the problems go away. Community policing is a good step for sure though as I've said.

Anyway, here's how a leader can actually help define the defund movement without coming across like they want to end all policing. I think she nailed it and this took all of five minutes:

Read on Twitter

Oh, trust you me, I had no doubt that you would be able to be objective about Bernie. I'm just keeping Wingy in line

I am on board with defunding the police. I know there are particulars to work out, but investing in the community and allowing the people to have the tools and support to live in to their social contract makes all the sense in the world to me. It's certainly better than governments criminalizing everything it doesn't want to handle and overextending a police force that is really a violent tool that should only be deployed to meet violence on to the communities for minor offenses.

I agree that AOC laid out the case well, but I do think surrogates like that will fare much better in spreading that message than Joe Biden will. They don't have to be accountable in the general election.

[KnicksGadfly]

I think the big issue with "defunding" the police is that it's easily misconstrued. It's kinda like kneeling at the flag. People are going to take it the wrong way, and a lot of them are going to do it deliberately to avoid dealing with the issue.

[HarthorneWingo]

I think the big issue with "defunding" the police is that it's easily misconstrued. It's kinda like kneeling at the flag. People are going to take it the wrong way, and a lot of them are going to do it deliberately to avoid dealing with the issue.

Let’s be honest, anyone who doesn’t understand what “defunding” means In today’s context, either understands completely what it means but refuses to be on board no matter how you explain it because they’re conservative pro-cop A-holes, is simply an ignorant snowflake on the issue, or a political pussy.

Shaming Democrats in cowering before them is how Republicans have manipulated and gaslighted Democrats ever since Reagan. Smh

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

This was interesting to me

The protests and reinvigoration of the youth is an ally pop to the Biden campaign. They need to take advantage of this and put a black woman on the ticket with the platform of restorative justice and racial equity. I think Val Demings is a very interesting choice since she was a former police chief and if she can deliver Florida Trump is absolutely ****. But then Kamal’s pretty much checks off all the boxes and is ready to step in day 1.

how is nominating cops taking advantage of the protests

Both are younger than Biden and as black women they can better speak to the intersection of race, gender, police brutality and injustice. Third the fact that they’ve both worked in the justice system provides a unique perspective and allows them to go further left on the issues than Biden. Unless you believe all the protestors want to abolish the police, the point is to seize the moment and make real change without going to the extremes.

[Pointgod]

I think the big issue with "defunding" the police is that it's easily misconstrued. It's kinda like kneeling at the flag. People are going to take it the wrong way, and a lot of them are going to do it deliberately to avoid dealing with the issue.

Let’s be honest, anyone who doesn’t understand what “defunding” means In today’s context, either understands completely what it means but refuses to be on board no matter how you explain it because they’re conservative pro-cop A-holes, is simply an ignorant snowflake on the issue, or a political pussy.

Shaming Democrats in cowering before them is how Republicans have manipulated and gaslighted Democrats ever since Reagan. Smh

No defunding the police is an idiotic tag line in terms of politics. The fact that theres no real clarity regarding what it means is the problem. The majority of people will agree with the policies behind if laid out, but people are lazy and stupid, so it’s better to be clear about policy goals than cling to a catchphrase that plays well on twitter. Just assume that the vast majority of voters in the upcoming election only read headlines to get their news.