OT: NFL 25 Draft and Beyond Thread

[JXL]

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[GONYK]

I wish the giants would do the same thing as the jets.

It doesn't make sense to do that if you think Dart is the answer at QB going forward

depends you can move some of the money and then re-invest in FA in the next year.

For example Dexter Lawerence looks completely checked out...he had is lowest PFF grade and didn't do anything. If he is going to play like that do you really want him as part of your future builds?

Now the difference is Jets GM and HC are new so they probably have leeway to rebuild...if Schoen trades everyone and they go 2-15 or 3-14 neither Schoen or Daboll will reep the rewards of those future picks. But thats because the Giants do things backwards.

I would have to see another year like this from Dex or know that he's injured in a chronic way to move him.

[MrDollarBills]

The Jets made some excellent moves today. 3 1sts in 2027 is excellent value for what they gave up

[MrDollarBills]

It doesn't make sense to do that if you think Dart is the answer at QB going forward

depends you can move some of the money and then re-invest in FA in the next year.

For example Dexter Lawerence looks completely checked out...he had is lowest PFF grade and didn't do anything. If he is going to play like that do you really want him as part of your future builds?

Now the difference is Jets GM and HC are new so they probably have leeway to rebuild...if Schoen trades everyone and they go 2-15 or 3-14 neither Schoen or Daboll will reep the rewards of those future picks. But thats because the Giants do things backwards.

I would have to see another year like this from Dex or know that he's injured in a chronic way to move him.

Yeah I'm giving Dex a pass this season because he's coming off of injury and frankly the defensive scheme has been trash all year.

Let the next GM decide his fate. Schoen should be fired on December 1st.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Wfan is reporting that the giants were going to fire Daboll after the debacle in Denver. They allegedly had to talk Mara down. Not sure why they stopped him cuz it’s basically gonna happen in a few more weeks

[Luv those Knicks]

The Jets made some excellent moves today. 3 1sts in 2027 is excellent value for what they gave up

The Jets are probably bad enough to get one of the top QBs in this draft, even if they don't get the #1 pick, they probably pick in the top 3, unless they do something unexpected and win a handful of games.

I realize there's no clear frontrunner and this draft reportedly lacks a clear best pick, but I assume they draft a QB with their top pick and after that, look to build the team around him with the other picks.

Not a bad place to be.

[MrDollarBills]

Wfan is reporting that the giants were going to fire Daboll after the debacle in Denver. They allegedly had to talk Mara down. Not sure why they stopped him cuz it’s basically gonna happen in a few more weeks

Mara should fire them both during the bye week. Enough is enough.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Wfan is reporting that the giants were going to fire Daboll after the debacle in Denver. They allegedly had to talk Mara down. Not sure why they stopped him cuz it’s basically gonna happen in a few more weeks

Mara should fire them both during the bye week. Enough is enough.

Don’t really understand what the benefit of delaying the inevitable at this point. Whatever momentum they had from the dart promotion is now gone. We’ve basically got another half season of pointless football with a lame duck coach. Why risk Daboll doing something stupid in the short sided attempt to save his job?

[GONYK]

There is literally no functional difference between firing everyone today and firing them at the end of the season other than Dart gets consistent coaching through the first year of his career if we wait until the end of the season.

[TerrenceClarke]

There is literally no functional difference between firing everyone today and firing them at the end of the season other than Dart gets consistent coaching through the first year of his career if we wait until the end of the season.

There is a mental difference. The more this drags out when everybody knows he is a lame duck, just creates a more toxic situation week after week. Consistent coaching? which is what? getting a bad coach week to week is just consistent trash education. How much will Dart even be listening when the writing is on the wall?

if you are concerned about Dart one of the best things is to get Daboll from around the team, cause its obvious he has been tuned out by the majority of this team.

Two more Months of Having Daboll as the coach can do more harm than good to the psyche of this team.


There is a reason why sometimes coaches get fired quickly when they are a lame duck coach. Its to get that dark cloud from over the team just from a mental perspective. Everything isnt physical.

[GONYK]

There is literally no functional difference between firing everyone today and firing them at the end of the season other than Dart gets consistent coaching through the first year of his career if we wait until the end of the season.

There is a mental difference. The more this drags out when everybody knows he is a lame duck, just creates a more toxic situation week after week. Consistent coaching? which is what? getting a bad coach week to week is just consistent trash education. How much will Dart even be listening when the writing is on the wall?

if you are concerned about Dart one of the best things is to get Daboll from around the team, cause its obvious he has been tuned out by the majority of this team.

Two more Months of Having Daboll as the coach can do more harm than good to the psyche of this team.


There is a reason why sometimes coaches get fired quickly when they are a lame duck coach. Its to get that dark cloud from over the team just from a mental perspective. Everything isnt physical.

There is no evidence that there is any issue between Dart and Daboll. There's a ton more evidence that they are very close, given all the articles about how they are constantly texting and watching film together, and Daboll has been getting a lot out of him as a rookie.

There's definitely a case to be made that Dart will respond to Daboll way more than Kafka or any QB coach or passing game coordinator that would be made the interim coach/OC.

[TerrenceClarke]

There is literally no functional difference between firing everyone today and firing them at the end of the season other than Dart gets consistent coaching through the first year of his career if we wait until the end of the season.

There is a mental difference. The more this drags out when everybody knows he is a lame duck, just creates a more toxic situation week after week. Consistent coaching? which is what? getting a bad coach week to week is just consistent trash education. How much will Dart even be listening when the writing is on the wall?

if you are concerned about Dart one of the best things is to get Daboll from around the team, cause its obvious he has been tuned out by the majority of this team.

Two more Months of Having Daboll as the coach can do more harm than good to the psyche of this team.


There is a reason why sometimes coaches get fired quickly when they are a lame duck coach. Its to get that dark cloud from over the team just from a mental perspective. Everything isnt physical.

There is no evidence that there is any issue between Dart and Daboll. There's a ton more evidence that they are very close, given all the articles about how they are constantly texting and watching film together, and Daboll has been getting a lot out of him as a rookie.

There's definitely a case to be made that Dart will respond to Daboll way more than Kafka or any QB coach or passing game coordinator that would be made the interim coach/OC.

Again what does that matter if he wont be here, and the next coach has a different philsosphy. There is nothing Daboll can do more than Kafka at this point. It don’t matter that they close, if he aint gonna be here at all. The whole team knows he is a lame duck. That means what you say don’t have the same impact to the team that’s just a fact. Dart can like him all he want. It wont stop the lame duck thoughts the WHOLE team has.

There is absolutely no benefit to keeping Daboll for the sake of “consistency “ especially when that consistency consists only of a whole two months.

He gonna have to learn from a new coach anyway.

This team ain’t just Dart. Daboll at this point is toxic to the team with week to week talk of being fired.

[Deeeez Knicks]

just clean out the front office and coach staff at the end of the year. At least we have Dart and a few good pieces but everything else has been a mess. I’m good too if they want to fire everyone tomorrow.

[GONYK]

There is a mental difference. The more this drags out when everybody knows he is a lame duck, just creates a more toxic situation week after week. Consistent coaching? which is what? getting a bad coach week to week is just consistent trash education. How much will Dart even be listening when the writing is on the wall?

if you are concerned about Dart one of the best things is to get Daboll from around the team, cause its obvious he has been tuned out by the majority of this team.

Two more Months of Having Daboll as the coach can do more harm than good to the psyche of this team.


There is a reason why sometimes coaches get fired quickly when they are a lame duck coach. Its to get that dark cloud from over the team just from a mental perspective. Everything isnt physical.

There is no evidence that there is any issue between Dart and Daboll. There's a ton more evidence that they are very close, given all the articles about how they are constantly texting and watching film together, and Daboll has been getting a lot out of him as a rookie.

There's definitely a case to be made that Dart will respond to Daboll way more than Kafka or any QB coach or passing game coordinator that would be made the interim coach/OC.

Again what does that matter if he wont be here, and the next coach has a different philsosphy. There is nothing Daboll can do more than Kafka at this point. It don’t matter that they close, if he aint gonna be here at all. The whole team knows he is a lame duck. That means what you say don’t have the same impact to the team that’s just a fact. Dart can like him all he want. It wont stop the lame duck thoughts the WHOLE team has.

There is absolutely no benefit to keeping Daboll for the sake of “consistency “ especially when that consistency consists only of a whole two months.

He gonna have to learn from a new coach anyway.

This team ain’t just Dart. Daboll at this point is toxic to the team with week to week talk of being fired.

The same argument can be made for keeping the staff. The season is finished either way. If the guys aren't going to listen to Daboll and Co. then they aren't going to listen to interim coaches who are already in the locker room right now as part of the staff.

So why disrupt things more than is necessary if the end result will be the same?

[Ghetto Gospel]

pat leonard still a generational hater

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[MrDollarBills]

pat leonard still a generational hater

Read on Twitter

I'm surprised Daboll's head didn't explode after that question.

[MrDollarBills]

There is no evidence that there is any issue between Dart and Daboll. There's a ton more evidence that they are very close, given all the articles about how they are constantly texting and watching film together, and Daboll has been getting a lot out of him as a rookie.

There's definitely a case to be made that Dart will respond to Daboll way more than Kafka or any QB coach or passing game coordinator that would be made the interim coach/OC.

Again what does that matter if he wont be here, and the next coach has a different philsosphy. There is nothing Daboll can do more than Kafka at this point. It don’t matter that they close, if he aint gonna be here at all. The whole team knows he is a lame duck. That means what you say don’t have the same impact to the team that’s just a fact. Dart can like him all he want. It wont stop the lame duck thoughts the WHOLE team has.

There is absolutely no benefit to keeping Daboll for the sake of “consistency “ especially when that consistency consists only of a whole two months.

He gonna have to learn from a new coach anyway.

This team ain’t just Dart. Daboll at this point is toxic to the team with week to week talk of being fired.

The same argument can be made for keeping the staff. The season is finished either way. If the guys aren't going to listen to Daboll and Co. then they aren't going to listen to interim coaches who are already in the locker room right now as part of the staff.

So why disrupt things more than is necessary if the end result will be the same?

The rationale for letting Daboll finish out his term is fine, but there's no reason why Schoen should still be employed. Might as well start the new GM search now

[GONYK]

Again what does that matter if he wont be here, and the next coach has a different philsosphy. There is nothing Daboll can do more than Kafka at this point. It don’t matter that they close, if he aint gonna be here at all. The whole team knows he is a lame duck. That means what you say don’t have the same impact to the team that’s just a fact. Dart can like him all he want. It wont stop the lame duck thoughts the WHOLE team has.

There is absolutely no benefit to keeping Daboll for the sake of “consistency “ especially when that consistency consists only of a whole two months.

He gonna have to learn from a new coach anyway.

This team ain’t just Dart. Daboll at this point is toxic to the team with week to week talk of being fired.

The same argument can be made for keeping the staff. The season is finished either way. If the guys aren't going to listen to Daboll and Co. then they aren't going to listen to interim coaches who are already in the locker room right now as part of the staff.

So why disrupt things more than is necessary if the end result will be the same?

The rationale for letting Daboll finish out his term is fine, but there's no reason why Schoen should still be employed. Might as well start the new GM search now

Very bold to assume he's getting fired

[MrDollarBills]

The same argument can be made for keeping the staff. The season is finished either way. If the guys aren't going to listen to Daboll and Co. then they aren't going to listen to interim coaches who are already in the locker room right now as part of the staff.

So why disrupt things more than is necessary if the end result will be the same?

The rationale for letting Daboll finish out his term is fine, but there's no reason why Schoen should still be employed. Might as well start the new GM search now

Very bold to assume he's getting fired

Yea, but I don't think he is remotely safe either.

I give him credit for drafting Skattebo but Dart was basically what Daboll wanted and Nabers and Carter were no brainer picks.

He gave Slayton 36m

Theo Johnson sucks. JMS sucks. Banks sucks. Hyatt sucks. He doesn't remotely value the kicker position

He needs to go too.

[GONYK]

The rationale for letting Daboll finish out his term is fine, but there's no reason why Schoen should still be employed. Might as well start the new GM search now

Very bold to assume he's getting fired

Yea, but I don't think he is remotely safe either.

I give him credit for drafting Skattebo but Dart was basically what Daboll wanted and Nabers and Carter were no brainer picks.

The Athletic did an objective ranking of each team's drafting acumen over the last 5 years. The Giants have came out as the 20th best drafting team over the Schoen era. So obviously below average, but not the worst.

To say Nabers and Carter were no brainer picks and taking away credit for them isn't fair if you are going to hold Neal against him. If the picks pan out, then he gets credit for it. It's talent on the roster.

As far as Dart, yes Daboll banged the table for Dart, but its Schoen who read the board correctly, worked the phones, and didn't panic when QB needy teams ahead of us were drafting and secured Dart for pretty solid value. That is a feather in his cap as well, especially when getting the QB right (if Dart is that guy) is the most impactful any GM can ever make.

He gave Slayton 36m

Which is pretty much the going rate for a WR2. It's a slight overpay for Slayton, but I think it's factored in that Slayton is a leader on the team and has been here through some real bad times and never gave problems as well as making up for him getting strongarmed to take a pay cut the season before. That was a culture contract, but Slayton is a 700 yd/season guy when healthy.

The bigger issue is that we traded up to draft Hyatt to replace Slayton and that has been a complete bust.

Theo Johnson sucks. JMS sucks. Banks sucks. Hyatt sucks. He doesn't remotely value the kicker position

Theo was a 4th round pick. He was projected as a raw receiver, but had all the athletic tools you want for the postiion and is a pretty good blocker. That's what later round picks look like.

JMS is a huge whiff. Even though he's ok, he was supposed to be a high floor prospect and he's basically Schlottman level.

Banks was drafted for Wink. Schoen gave Wink the choice between Banks and Porter and Wink made the call. YMMV on how to grade that one out. Yes, the GM ultimately makes the call, but it's also his job to collaborate with the coaches who will be utilizing the players in their schemes. That's the bigger issue with switching coordinators too often.

Not valuing the kicker position is completely unfair. He took a lot of heat for keeping Gano at $6M, precisely because he does value reliable kicking. Problem is Gano's body is done and now we're picking off the scrap heap. Would you rather Schoen spent draft assets on a kicker?

Schoen also has improved the line, brought in the NFL sacks leader (Burns) in a solid trade.

His biggest issue isn't the draft, IMO, it's his cap management and always trying to have a clean cap rather than use void years like the Eagles. I don't know if this is a Mara call though and I wonder if that changes any with the new Koch ownership stake.

None of this is to say that I think Schoen is good. I thought he and Daboll should have gotten the boot last offseason. But I do think trying to drop the fandom from it and looking at it objectively is what Mara tries to do (for better or worse). If you couple the above with the fact that Mara forced him to keep Jones for the first 2 years, then I think we shouldn't be too sure Mara doesn't give him another chance with Dart.