July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread

[moocow007]

I dont care what anyone says, Shumpert is a bum. Hes an above average defender at best and one of the worst offensive guards in the league.

i agree. but if you could have got a 1st for him, you should have. after getting one for timmy, it shouldn't be surprising that we could have got one for him.

Yeah. Shumpert, as disappointing as he was, IMO, is more valuable as a player than Hardaway. Hardaway's rookie contract may have looked better, but at the end of the day...if I had to choose a player to keep and play, I'd have chosen Shumpert. And this isn't revisionist thinking, when we had all 3, I said on several occassions that the one that I would have moved first would have been Hardaway cause he was trumped by Smith in talent and by Shumpert in defense, that Hardaway didn't do anything better than either Smith or Shumpert in any facet of the game. Smith was the better offensive player, the better shooter, the better passer, the better defender...basically the better all around player CLEARLY. Shumpert was BY FAR the better defender. I get the feeling the need to shed Smith, but still...If I had something worth a quarter to me but may be worth $5 to someone else, getting 30-40 cents for it isn't really a good move. This analogy I've used as well. Top GM's would get near $5 worth. Other GM's? Less.

[Rasho Brezec]

i agree. but if you could have got a 1st for him, you should have. after getting one for timmy, it shouldn't be surprising that we could have got one for him.

Yep, guess that value didnt go down after all. Maximizing assets is always the right way to go.

if you really analyze it fully, we gave up 3 1st round picks in shump & tyson and used the little extra cap space that calderon's contract gave us vs felton/jr on paying lance thomas & lou amundson.

But we're building a culture now. Can't forget that.

[K_ick_God]

I don't buy that 6 teams offered a first for Shump. Nah.

Shump was used to dump JR. But even his standalone value would be less than THJ because he wasn't on a contract past this year. The Hawks were interested in THJ because he's still got a couple years of cheap money left.

[Thugger HBC]

I don't buy that 6 teams offered a first for Shump. Nah.

Shump was used to dump JR. But even his standalone value would be less than THJ because he wasn't on a contract past this year. The Hawks were interested in THJ because he's still got a couple years of cheap money left.

You dont have to believe 6, just believe 2, the two that were known.

[nykfan42]

We done signing dudes? or nah

[CoolKids]

I dont care what anyone says, Shumpert is a bum. Hes an above average defender at best and one of the worst offensive guards in the league.

i agree. but if you could have got a 1st for him, you should have. after getting one for timmy, it shouldn't be surprising that we could have got one for him.

maybe but it wasnt worth the risk of having JR on the books

[god shammgod]

We done signing dudes? or nah

there's still the room exception. i think the knicks are just seeing what's out there and if nobody better comes along they'll give it to shved.

[nykfan42]

We should stay far away from Ty Lawson. He is not built for the role he plays, video below of his lack of leadership.

http://www.makren.tv/s/43ad55b0-6432-4231-97c9-cece7e0c7a1b

I want the 6 minutes of my life back from watching this video. What was the point of this being posted?

[CoolKids]

We done signing dudes? or nah

there's still the room exception. i think the knicks are just seeing what's out there and if nobody better comes along they'll give it to shved.

praying someone better comes along then

[Rasho Brezec]

Who needs to maximize assets when you can fart rainbows and kittens?

[Mayhem]

Shumpert's value was probably higher simply because he was on the Cavs. Competing teams were willing to pay a higher price (a first rounder) just to get him off that team.

[nykfan42]

We done signing dudes? or nah

there's still the room exception. i think the knicks are just seeing what's out there and if nobody better comes along they'll give it to shved.

I thought I heard a few months back on ESPN radio that he had some option of like 4 or 5 mil. Can't remember exactly all the details, I just remember after the season ended Bill Daughtry was going through the roster of who he thought would be back and he made it sound like Sved was due more money. I might be wrong, it was just a while ago.

[louieOrr]

Phil had the opportunity to unload JR and needed Shump to do it.

Sure, would love to have gained the first rounder for Shump, but who would have thought Phil could get the 19th pick with Chuckaway Jr?

No way JR opts out if he's still a Knick and we all know it. We would have had 6,399,750 on the books for him.

Phil locked in Afflalo for 8mil most of which was paid for with JR $$$. We re-signed Lou and Lance both obtained in that trade.

Would you rather have a low 1st rd pick for Shump replacing Afflalo with JR?

[Thugger HBC]

Shumpert had value, nobody is knocking on JR's door for the third straight year.

[K_ick_God]

I don't buy that 6 teams offered a first for Shump. Nah.

Shump was used to dump JR. But even his standalone value would be less than THJ because he wasn't on a contract past this year. The Hawks were interested in THJ because he's still got a couple years of cheap money left.

You dont have to believe 6, just believe 2, the two that were known.

What 2?

[K_ick_God]

It's pretty silly to say we gave up 3 picks for Shump and Tyson. 6 teams offering a 1st for Shumpert. That doesn't strike anybody as strange? 6 teams? Not one of them signed Shump to an offer even though half of them had Max cap room? Forgive me but I'm going to say the NEOMG is not accurate here.

Then let's add another 2 picks for Tyson. Why? Because Mozgov got 2 so Tyson would have too.

Why don't we add another 1 or 2 picks for JR Smith while we're at it? Why not? JR is still young and has had higher peaks than Shump ever.

So we gave up 2 picks by letting JR go.

Phil gave up a total of 5 first round picks that could have been ours trading away JR, Tyson and Shump. Maybe we could have gotten a 1st for Felton too. That's 6.

This speculative stuff is bizarre and even worse logic than saying we gave up the top pick by winning two games at the end. At least in that case we WOULD have had more ping pong balls to get a top pick.

In this case, you have NEOMG and Mozgov getting 2 picks (not that much like Tyson really but let's forget about that) and Shumpert drawing the interest of 1 out of every 5 teams in the NBA and each offering a 1st round pick. Probably unprotected. If there were so many teams bidding for him and waving firsts at David Griffin like they're candy (for a guy who is pretty clearly backup), I'm surprised that at least 1 of the 6 didn't double down and offer two firsts.

The count is now up to 7. We could have had 7 picks for JR, Felton, Tyson and Shumpert.

Why on earth would any team offer a 1st to the Cavs anyway? Let's say they liked Shump, their best bet is to try to sign him to an offer sheet that the Cavs don't want to pay. The Cavs are going to take picks now? With LeBron 30 and desperate to bring a title to Cleveland?

Also the people who are spouting this stuff all thought Shumpert and Tyson sucked. So they think a guy sucks but they expect NBA teams, that do this for a living, to think both are really good? They're not assets. They were mostly liabilities.

[Thugger HBC]

Phil had the opportunity to unload JR and needed Shump to do it.

Sure, would love to have gained the first rounder for Shump, but who would have thought Phil could get the 19th pick with Chuckaway Jr?

No way JR opts out if he's still a Knick and we all know it. We would have had 6,399,750 on the books for him.

Phil locked in Afflalo for 8mil most of which was paid for with JR $$$. We re-signed Lou and Lance both obtained in that trade.

Would you rather have a low 1st rd pick for Shump replacing Afflalo with JR?

Unless you see Affalo, Lou and Lance as future pieces, I'd rather have the 1st rounder and JR's expiring deal in 2016. And JR could have been stretched if he opted in. Dont care what he said, JR is very capable of being dumb enough to opt out. he did it twice with us.

[god shammgod]

more teams give us 1sts for things then people are willing to realize. portland gave up a 1st for less then half a year of aaron afflalo.
shump and tyson had value. their new contracts prove it.

[JustCame]

I really hope JR doesn't get signed. He doesn't deserve to be. He's easily one of the dumbest and least hard working players in the league. The guy doesn't think at all while on the court. His value at this point is clearly negative.

[Thugger HBC]

It's pretty silly to say we gave up 3 picks for Shump and Tyson. 6 teams offering a 1st for Shumpert. That doesn't strike anybody as strange? 6 teams? Not one of them signed Shump to an offer even though half of them had Max cap room? Forgive me but I'm going to say the NEOMG is not accurate here.

Then let's add another 2 picks for Tyson. Why? Because Mozgov got 2 so Tyson would have too.

Why don't we add another 1 or 2 picks for JR Smith while we're at it? Why not? JR is still young and has had higher peaks than Shump ever.

So we gave up 2 picks by letting JR go.

Phil gave up a total of 5 first round picks that could have been ours trading away JR, Tyson and Shump. Maybe we could have gotten a 1st for Felton too. That's 6.

This speculative stuff is bizarre and even worse logic than saying we gave up the top pick by winning two games at the end. At least in that case we WOULD have had more ping pong balls to get a top pick.

In this case, you have NEOMG and Mozgov getting 2 picks (not that much like Tyson really but let's forget about that) and Shumpert drawing the interest of 1 out of every 5 teams in the NBA and each offering a 1st round pick. Probably unprotected. If there were so many teams bidding for him and waving firsts at David Griffin like they're candy (for a guy who is pretty clearly backup), I'm surprised that at least 1 of the 6 didn't double down and offer two firsts.

The count is now up to 7. We could have had 7 picks for JR, Felton, Tyson and Shumpert.

Why on earth would any team offer a 1st to the Cavs anyway? Let's say they liked Shump, their best bet is to try to sign him to an offer sheet that the Cavs don't want to pay. The Cavs are going to take picks now? With LeBron 30 and desperate to bring a title to Cleveland?

Also the people who are spouting this stuff all thought Shumpert and Tyson sucked. So they think a guy sucks but they expect NBA teams, that do this for a living, to think both are really good? They're not assets. They were mostly liabilities.

I have the perfect pic for this.....