July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread

[K_ick_God]

more teams give us 1sts for things then people are willing to realize. portland gave up a 1st for less then half a year of aaron afflalo.
shump and tyson had value. their new contracts prove it.

Their new contracts prove that few teams would give up a 1st for a player -- a kind of bad one -- who they're also about to pay in a few months. Can you name the number of times that teams traded significant value for a player (struggling player in this case) who is about to be a free agent? The Nets did it and it was idiotic. The Heat did it with Goran and that made little sense. The Nets are the Nets. Riley is nuts, and Goran is at least a top 10/15 PG.

Why would any team offer the Cavs, about to hit the playoffs and obviously went out and got Shump for that reason, a pick? The Cavs are going to start stripping down their roster before the playoffs with Bron?

That makes zero sense. Zero. And then why didn't any of these teams offer Shump money?

You guys are talking about kittens and rainbows but in this case, while you sometimes have a point about Phil, you are the ones spouting fairy tales. Multiple picks for Tyson coming off a horrible season, and Shumpert who had bottomed out in NY and was crap.

If someone said this who wasn't critiquing Phil, you'd laugh them off.

[mpharris36]

[K_ick_God]

Thought of the day: The Cavs leaked this nonsensical "substantiated rumor" about Shump getting 6 offers of 1sts to justify 10M a year to a guy who is basically a minor role player.

Secondly, if you think Mozgov tells you what value you get for Tyson, you're farting rainbows. Mozgov is on cheap contract for a couple more years, young, and can actually score and protect the rim. Tyson is none of those things. None.

[Thugger HBC]

more teams give us 1sts for things then people are willing to realize. portland gave up a 1st for less then half a year of aaron afflalo.
shump and tyson had value. their new contracts prove it.

Their new contracts prove that few teams would give up a 1st for a player -- a kind of bad one -- who they're also about to pay in a few months. Can you name the number of times that teams traded significant value for a player (struggling players in this case) who is about to be a restricted free agent? The Nets did it and it was idiotic. The Heat did it with Goran and that made little sense. The Nets are the Nets. Riley is nuts, and Goran is at least a top 10/15 PG.

Why would any team offer the Cavs, about to hit the playoffs and obviously went out and got Shump for that reason, a pick? The Cavs are going to start stripping down their roster before the playoffs with Bron?

That makes zero sense. Zero. And then why didn't any of these teams offer Shump money?

You guys are talking about kittens and rainbows but in this case, while you sometimes have a point about Phil, you are the ones spouting fairy tales. Multiple picks for Tyson coming off a horrible season, and Shumpert who had bottomed out in NY and was crap.

If someone said this who wasn't critiquing Phil, you'd laugh them off.

So does this apply to kawhi and Jimmy Butler as well....how come no one offered them deals? Guess nobody wanted them.

How do you offer a deal to a player that agreed to remain with his team on the first day of free agency?

The Cavs out priced everyone....July 1.

[K_ick_God]

more teams give us 1sts for things then people are willing to realize. portland gave up a 1st for less then half a year of aaron afflalo.
shump and tyson had value. their new contracts prove it.

Their new contracts prove that few teams would give up a 1st for a player -- a kind of bad one -- who they're also about to pay in a few months. Can you name the number of times that teams traded significant value for a player (struggling players in this case) who is about to be a restricted free agent? The Nets did it and it was idiotic. The Heat did it with Goran and that made little sense. The Nets are the Nets. Riley is nuts, and Goran is at least a top 10/15 PG.

Why would any team offer the Cavs, about to hit the playoffs and obviously went out and got Shump for that reason, a pick? The Cavs are going to start stripping down their roster before the playoffs with Bron?

That makes zero sense. Zero. And then why didn't any of these teams offer Shump money?

You guys are talking about kittens and rainbows but in this case, while you sometimes have a point about Phil, you are the ones spouting fairy tales. Multiple picks for Tyson coming off a horrible season, and Shumpert who had bottomed out in NY and was crap.

If someone said this who wasn't critiquing Phil, you'd laugh them off.

So does this apply to kawhi and Jimmy Butler as well....how come no one offered them deals? Guess nobody wanted them.

How do you offer a deal to a player that agreed to remain with his team on the first day of free agency?

The Cavs out priced everyone....July 1.

So 6 teams offered a 1st for him but none of them would pay him more than, say, $6M a year?

[NoLayupRule]

i love that Boston is trying to reassemble our old team - Lee and now Gallanari

gonna be sickening to see them in green

[Fat Kat]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/knickbulletin/status/620722617843089408[/tweet]

[Thugger HBC]

Their new contracts prove that few teams would give up a 1st for a player -- a kind of bad one -- who they're also about to pay in a few months. Can you name the number of times that teams traded significant value for a player (struggling players in this case) who is about to be a restricted free agent? The Nets did it and it was idiotic. The Heat did it with Goran and that made little sense. The Nets are the Nets. Riley is nuts, and Goran is at least a top 10/15 PG.

Why would any team offer the Cavs, about to hit the playoffs and obviously went out and got Shump for that reason, a pick? The Cavs are going to start stripping down their roster before the playoffs with Bron?

That makes zero sense. Zero. And then why didn't any of these teams offer Shump money?

You guys are talking about kittens and rainbows but in this case, while you sometimes have a point about Phil, you are the ones spouting fairy tales. Multiple picks for Tyson coming off a horrible season, and Shumpert who had bottomed out in NY and was crap.

If someone said this who wasn't critiquing Phil, you'd laugh them off.

So does this apply to kawhi and Jimmy Butler as well....how come no one offered them deals? Guess nobody wanted them.

How do you offer a deal to a player that agreed to remain with his team on the first day of free agency?

The Cavs out priced everyone....July 1.

So 6 teams offered a 1st for him but none of them would pay him more than, say, $6M a year?

The cavs and Shump agreed the first day any team could talk. I like your logic though...every player that agreed to stay with their teams immediately had NO other teams interested in them....or this just applies to former Knicks.

[god shammgod]

the 1st rounder for shump has been offered for years. i'm talking about what we could have got for him. we could have got a 1st. and tyson, as frustrating as he was to watch, is still a better player then moz. people saw moz, who basically acted as an extension of lebron's greatness, and were convinced that all these years he spent in the league wasn't who he was and the few months he played with lebron was the real moz. i.e. he's really not all that great.

p.s. i don't even care about this anymore, somebody else brought it up. i just want to watch manute nowitzki.

[Thugger HBC]

Nobody was interested in Marc Gasol since he wasnt offered a contract by anyone but the Grizzlies.

[god shammgod]

even i think the same arguments are coming up too much.


phil did want monroe though

[K_ick_God]

Find any other report that says 1 out of every 5 NBA teams each called up Cleveland and offered a 1st for Shump a few months from free agency and I'll admit I'm wrong. It defies common sense.

NEOMG ... oops. This is just not believable. Sounds like Cavs propaganda. Shump is not absolutely awful but he's not going to garner that level of interest. We traded him with JR because there was one team willing to take on both of these guys. The team heading into the playoffs with Bron.

For the record, we heard reports that OKC offered a 1st for Shump but that was like 2 years ago. And all their 1sts, at the time, were basically 2nds.

[mpharris36]

moz had more trade value because he was younger, healthier, coming off a better year, was almost 10 million dollars cheaper, and had a team friendly team option rather than a one year rental.

as for shumpert (he could have gotten a first no doubt). I think OKC was offering the 29th pick one year. So sure we could of gotten a late 1st round pick for shump but that late 1st was used to rid JR's almost 8 million player option.

So you need to ask yourself would you rather have a JR Smith and a 29th overall pick (who may not be very good) or Aaron Afflalo.

Let just focus on the team. We made a lot of progress this offseason. Hopefully we start winning some games so we dont' have to discuss this anymore.

[mpharris36]

even i think the same arguments are coming up too much.


phil did want monroe though

and we have Robin Lopez, which could work out better, just like trading players and tanking enough to get Porzingis.

He will be judged on the moves he has made/makes and how they work rather than rumored deals.

[god shammgod]

even i think the same arguments are coming up too much.


phil did want monroe though

and we have Robin Lopez, which could work out better, just like trading players and tanking enough to get Porzingis.

He will be judged on the moves he has made/makes and how they work rather than rumored deals.

it very well could work out better. i say we ban whoever brought this up and then everyone else too. thank you.

[K_ick_God]

moz had more trade value because he was younger, healthier, coming off a better year, was almost 10 million dollars cheaper, and had a team friendly team option rather than a one year rental.

as for shumpert (he could have gotten a first no doubt). I think OKC was offering the 29th pick one year. So sure we could of gotten a late 1st round pick for shump but that late 1st was used to rid JR's almost 8 million player option.

So you need to ask yourself would you rather have a JR Smith and a 29th overall pick (who may not be very good) or Aaron Afflalo.

Let just focus on the team. We made a lot of progress this offseason. Hopefully we start winning some games so we dont' have to discuss this anymore.

Shump might have gotten a 1st a year or two ago. This year, maybe. Still wasn't 6 teams offering them a 1st. That's obviously a lie.

And any 1st that would be offered for him would be 15-30. And 15-18 is very generous of me but considering we got the 19th for THJ, though I think that was a special case similar to Mozgov/Tyson, I'll be generous and add in 15-18.

Anyway, I'd say there are few teams who'd want Shump at $10M. But there are also few teams that would offer a 1st for him. Not 1 of every 5.

[LJ4pointplay]

i love that Boston is trying to reassemble our old team - Lee and now Gallanari

gonna be sickening to see them in green

TCF?

[Thugger HBC]

moz had more trade value because he was younger, healthier, coming off a better year, was almost 10 million dollars cheaper, and had a team friendly team option rather than a one year rental.

Actually he garnered more because the team he was traded to needed a center at the deadline and offered up more than he was worth.

as for shumpert (he could have gotten a first no doubt). I think OKC was offering the 29th pick one year. So sure we could of gotten a late 1st round pick for shump but that late 1st was used to rid JR's almost 8 million player option.

So you need to ask yourself would you rather have a JR Smith and a 29th overall pick (who may not be very good) or Aaron Afflalo.

I really dont think anyone think Timmy was a better player than Shumpert, but we know teams were interested in Shumpert, and they all knew we wanted no players back....a late first would easily suffice.

Some one else just posed this same scenario, and it's easily answered....JR comes off the books after this season, and that's a great assumption he opts in...something he has not done since coming back from China in any season, but yes, lets believe he does what has not done to date. Your banking that Afflalo will be a better player than JR when the last few years he's actually been worse, if that was possible..

So I ask you....would you rather have AA in July 2016 or an additional 8 mil in cap space and a future 1st round pick?

Let just focus on the team. We made a lot of progress this offseason. Hopefully we start winning some games so we dont' have to discuss this anymore.

Agreed, but you know it wont happen, just gauging by the topics just on the first page alone. We love to talk about our formers

[aq_ua]

i love that Boston is trying to reassemble our old team - Lee and now Gallanari

gonna be sickening to see them in green

TCF?

Imagine if the Celts then went out and signed Balkman...

[mpharris36]

moz had more trade value because he was younger, healthier, coming off a better year, was almost 10 million dollars cheaper, and had a team friendly team option rather than a one year rental.

Actually he garnered more because the team he was traded to needed a center at the deadline and offered up more than he was worth.

as for shumpert (he could have gotten a first no doubt). I think OKC was offering the 29th pick one year. So sure we could of gotten a late 1st round pick for shump but that late 1st was used to rid JR's almost 8 million player option.

So you need to ask yourself would you rather have a JR Smith and a 29th overall pick (who may not be very good) or Aaron Afflalo.

I really dont think anyone think Timmy was a better player than Shumpert, but we know teams were interested in Shumpert, and they all knew we wanted no players back....a late first would easily suffice.

Some one else just posed this same scenario, and it's easily answered....JR comes off the books after this season, and that's a great assumption he opts in...something he has not done since coming back from China in any season, but yes, lets believe he does what has not done to date. Your banking that Afflalo will be a better player than JR when the last few years he's actually been worse, if that was possible..

So I ask you....would you rather have AA in July 2016 or an additional 8 mil in cap space and a future 1st round pick?

Let just focus on the team. We made a lot of progress this offseason. Hopefully we start winning some games so we dont' have to discuss this anymore.

Agreed, but you know it wont happen, just gauging by the topics just on the first page alone. We love to talk about our formers

1. While they did have a need for center. They seem to target a specific player. I can't believe Mozgov was the only center available at the deadline. What got him to cleveland was they had to give up something Denver wanted because he was young, on the uptick, and had a team option for roughly 5 million. Denver didn't need to trade him, since they had his rights for next year with garners leverage in a trade.

2. While the raw stats might suggest JR is a more productive player. Its interesting that both players had similar yearly salaries but JR was considered a negative contract (shumpert was the asset) - especially by seeing the cavs already inking him to 4 yrs 40 million. Afflalo still was able to get a 1st rounder in a deadline deal for a couple month rental.

Now the future 1st is really not a future 1st because I don't think teams were offering a future 1st I think, specifically a team was offering the 28th or 29th pick (clippers or thunder in that draft). I am not suggesting we would have drafted CJ Wilcox or Josh Huestis but there aren't many impact players in that group. Maybe we picked Kyle Anderson or maybe KJ Mcdaniels but I guess that is all hypothetical since we dont know.

We also have a tradable asset most likely in afflalo that if we are playing so so and he is playing well you can gain that cap space and a future 1st rounder most likely (unless you think his value dropped that much a few months ago).

Also while Shumpert is a better player than THjr. Rookie contracts are where the value is. Fact is shumpert was going to be paid so many teams did not want to give up a great asset and then have to pay shumpert a lot of $$$. I think Atlanta made that move because they have now 2 years of control of THjr at a cheap price. We would not have gotten that value if THjr was on his qualifying offer year that shumpert was on.

3. I think we have a lot of "tradeable assets" which is really what the knicks haven't had in a long time. Meaning we have flexibility to do a lot of things during the year if we really wanted too. Really though guys like Porzingis, Lopez, and Grant are the keys because they are the long term future with Melo. The other pieces are movable and interchangeable and that is a good thing.