Donovan Mitchell Discussion 4

[Pr0nzingis]

Heat tanked for Wade

They literally had Lebron, Kyrie and trade a number one pick for Love and he still doesn’t think tanking helps.

Some people can’t be helped.

The Heat tanked for LeBron and it didn’t work. They got lucky Wade, the 5th pick, not top 3, became a superstar.

So one example of tanking for LeBron, who didn’t win ****, left, they tanked like 3 more times, won 1 title after LeBron CAME BACK. No, your example sucks and there aren’t others with the exception of the Spurs tanking over 20 years ago.

It's called steroids. Then steroids-easy-way-out-boys teammed together a couple years down the road, then they wore t-shirts saying " Nothing given everything earned" classic compensation.

[spree8]

If Ainge comes back to Leon after shopping Mitchell around the league, then he better lower the offer cuz that means nobody is coming close. And that’s likely the case because the teams that can offer more know he doesn’t want to play there. We shouldn’t be gifting Ainge unprotected picks beyond 2023 or core players like Obi & IQ if we don’t have to.

[stuporman]

Talent wins in the NBA but they don't award wins just based on talent, teams win even though it's talented teams that do.

I would like to build off of that
Talented teams with pieces that compliment each other help win games as well.

Let's keep building....with a coach that knows how to use the players to get the most out of their abilities.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

This is your opinion but not necessarily true. Comparing the Nets to our situation is not really fair. Completely different situations. And Mitchell and Brunson are only 25. Who are we waiting for if Mitchell is not good enough for the Knicks? No one seems to be able to answer this question.

When a featured backcourt of two 6’1. Consistently get to the finals and win it . I will change my opinion. It’s worse because we can go all in on two talents that aren’t on the same level as Kyrie or Durant. There is no way to slice that Brunson and Mitchell are on the same tier as Kyrie and Durant. To invest all on something that isn’t on their level doesn’t seem like a good buy to me

Lowry/FVV & Dumars/Isiah.... not impossible...

Lowry and Danny Green.

Their most played lineup in the playoffs was Lowry, Green, Kawhi, Siakam, Gasol

Their most potent lineup in the playoffs was Lowry, Green, Kawhi, Siakam, Ibaka.


They had Kawhi, Lowry and FVV are above average defenders, they didn't trade 6 picks and depth for Kawhi either.

[Dave DaButcher]

Read on Twitter

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Kellerman is another annoying blowhard. Good job by Hahn pointing out the absurdity of his predictably contradictory anti-Knick rant.

[Knox]

When a featured backcourt of two 6’1. Consistently get to the finals and win it . I will change my opinion. It’s worse because we can go all in on two talents that aren’t on the same level as Kyrie or Durant. There is no way to slice that Brunson and Mitchell are on the same tier as Kyrie and Durant. To invest all on something that isn’t on their level doesn’t seem like a good buy to me

Lowry/FVV & Dumars/Isiah.... not impossible...

Lowry and Danny Green.

Their most played lineup in the playoffs was Lowry, Green, Kawhi, Siakam, Gasol

Their most potent lineup in the playoffs was Lowry, Green, Kawhi, Siakam, Ibaka.


They had Kawhi, Lowry and FVV are above average defenders, they didn't trade 6 picks and depth for Kawhi either.

Raptors outright refused to add Siakam in a deal for kawhi. They knew their players value

[stitches]

The thing I've been thinking about is... there is a REALLY simple way for the Knicks to make Barrett truly untouchable. And this is also the way to act if you actually value him at the level of an untouchable asset - give him the max.. NOW! You give him the max now and he's off the table automatically. But that's not what the Knicks are doing. Why? What's going on in New York?

[mpharris36]

This ain’t happening anytime soon. F big mike. F elizah huge.

Read on Twitter

The longer it goes the better deal the knicks will get though.

If we agreed to Ainge' terms right now we would get taken to the woodshed. The longer this goes and once they see there is no one offering what we can offer we can at least get back to talking about a reasonable deal that works for both parties.

Right now Ainge is saying "this is what we need to get a deal done"

Knicks are saying this is what we are willing to give up.

Either the Jazz keep him and run the risk of getting him upset or they come back to the table with the Knicks.

Maybe I'm being optimistic, but I think this is how it's going, too

There's really no pressure on the Knicks to get a deal done, at least not in the immediate future. Even if we start off poorly, Leon and co. are just gonna put all the blame on Thibs and fire him, get another year to turn it around. If that happens, then they might be under pressure to get a star, but that's a year off

Ainge is under more pressure to get a deal done, cause he wants to kickstart his rebuild, not have a mediocre year with D Mitch, cause I don't think his trade value is gonna get much higher than right now

Hence, we really don't have to meet him at his price, we just have to offer more than the next team, which we can easily do

Now, it's possible that we blink first, we are the Knicks after all, but I think if we were gonna do so, we would've done it already.

We certainly aren't going to accept all of Ainge' terms...whether or not we meet in the middle or just hold out to what we are comfortable with is yet to be seen. If we meet halfway we still have a better package anyone else after Mitchell.

But I do think the knicks are comfortable with 4-5 1st rounders and a young player or 2. What I don't think the knicks are comfortable with (and they shouldn't be) is 6 1st rounders and all the young players.

Logic would suggest 5 1st rounders (3 of our own unprotected) + 2 others + Grimes + contract fillers should get it done if you are comparing all the other offers out there. That gets ainge more than the Gobert haul so he can save face and we get Mitch and don't move all of our moving pieces to eventually build up for a follow up move over the next couple years.

[spree8]

The thing I've been thinking about is... there is a REALLY simple way for the Knicks to make Barrett truly untouchable. And this is also the way to act if you actually value him at the level of an untouchable asset - give him the max.. NOW! You give him the max now and he's off the table automatically. But that's not what the Knicks are doing. Why? What's going on in New York?

Would’ve rather traded RJ to Sac for Ivey, but if it’s for Mitchell, then there better be a serious reduction in picks being added and no other young core players. Just give Grimes the starting spot at sf in place of RJ.

[stuporman]

The thing I've been thinking about is... there is a REALLY simple way for the Knicks to make Barrett truly untouchable. And this is also the way to act if you actually value him at the level of an untouchable asset - give him the max.. NOW! You give him the max now and he's off the table automatically. But that's not what the Knicks are doing. Why? What's going on in New York?

Brock Aller has forgotten more about using the cap effectively than you will ever know so your opinion is useless.

[Knox]

The thing I've been thinking about is... there is a REALLY simple way for the Knicks to make Barrett truly untouchable. And this is also the way to act if you actually value him at the level of an untouchable asset - give him the max.. NOW! You give him the max now and he's off the table automatically. But that's not what the Knicks are doing. Why? What's going on in New York?

Would’ve rather traded RJ to Sac for Ivey, but if it’s for Mitchell, then there better be a serious reduction in picks being added and no other young core players. Just give Grimes the starting spot at sf in place of RJ.

The Ivey fan club was right. We should of pushed for him

[SelbyCobra]

The thing I've been thinking about is... there is a REALLY simple way for the Knicks to make Barrett truly untouchable. And this is also the way to act if you actually value him at the level of an untouchable asset - give him the max.. NOW! You give him the max now and he's off the table automatically. But that's not what the Knicks are doing. Why? What's going on in New York?

What are you talking about? There's only one way to make RJ untouchable, and that's to not accept any trade offers with him in it.

You guys thinking the Knicks need to prove it to you as fans or something. All they need to do is not trade him for him to be untouchable. It's extremely simple.

[spree8]

The longer it goes the better deal the knicks will get though.

If we agreed to Ainge' terms right now we would get taken to the woodshed. The longer this goes and once they see there is no one offering what we can offer we can at least get back to talking about a reasonable deal that works for both parties.

Right now Ainge is saying "this is what we need to get a deal done"

Knicks are saying this is what we are willing to give up.

Either the Jazz keep him and run the risk of getting him upset or they come back to the table with the Knicks.

Maybe I'm being optimistic, but I think this is how it's going, too

There's really no pressure on the Knicks to get a deal done, at least not in the immediate future. Even if we start off poorly, Leon and co. are just gonna put all the blame on Thibs and fire him, get another year to turn it around. If that happens, then they might be under pressure to get a star, but that's a year off

Ainge is under more pressure to get a deal done, cause he wants to kickstart his rebuild, not have a mediocre year with D Mitch, cause I don't think his trade value is gonna get much higher than right now

Hence, we really don't have to meet him at his price, we just have to offer more than the next team, which we can easily do

Now, it's possible that we blink first, we are the Knicks after all, but I think if we were gonna do so, we would've done it already.

We certainly aren't going to accept all of Ainge' terms...whether or not we meet in the middle or just hold out to what we are comfortable with is yet to be seen. If we meet halfway we still have a better package anyone else after Mitchell.

But I do think the knicks are comfortable with 4-5 1st rounders and a young player or 2. What I don't think the knicks are comfortable with (and they shouldn't be) is 6 1st rounders and all the young players.

Logic would suggest 5 1st rounders (3 of our own unprotected) + 2 others + Grimes + contract fillers should get it done if you are comparing all the other offers out there. That gets ainge more than the Gobert haul so he can save face and we get Mitch and don't move all of our moving pieces to eventually build up for a follow up move over the next couple years.

The thought of 3 unprotected Knicks 1st’s (23’, 25’, 27’) is beyond disgusting. Ugh, please stop speaking this into existence.

[mpharris36]

Maybe I'm being optimistic, but I think this is how it's going, too

There's really no pressure on the Knicks to get a deal done, at least not in the immediate future. Even if we start off poorly, Leon and co. are just gonna put all the blame on Thibs and fire him, get another year to turn it around. If that happens, then they might be under pressure to get a star, but that's a year off

Ainge is under more pressure to get a deal done, cause he wants to kickstart his rebuild, not have a mediocre year with D Mitch, cause I don't think his trade value is gonna get much higher than right now

Hence, we really don't have to meet him at his price, we just have to offer more than the next team, which we can easily do

Now, it's possible that we blink first, we are the Knicks after all, but I think if we were gonna do so, we would've done it already.

We certainly aren't going to accept all of Ainge' terms...whether or not we meet in the middle or just hold out to what we are comfortable with is yet to be seen. If we meet halfway we still have a better package anyone else after Mitchell.

But I do think the knicks are comfortable with 4-5 1st rounders and a young player or 2. What I don't think the knicks are comfortable with (and they shouldn't be) is 6 1st rounders and all the young players.

Logic would suggest 5 1st rounders (3 of our own unprotected) + 2 others + Grimes + contract fillers should get it done if you are comparing all the other offers out there. That gets ainge more than the Gobert haul so he can save face and we get Mitch and don't move all of our moving pieces to eventually build up for a follow up move over the next couple years.

The thought of 3 unprotected Knicks 1st’s (23’, 25’, 27’) is beyond disgusting. Ugh, please stop speaking this into existence.

its really isn't for the going rate for a top 15-20 player in the sport under team control.

[TrueWarrior]

Raptors outright refused to add Siakam in a deal for kawhi. They knew their players value

Thing is, if we have no plan for Obi getting at least 20-25 mpg then what are we doing keeping him? Paschall can play his 10-15 min off the bench if that’s all we see Obi as.

Knicks need to figure out what the hell they’re doing. Are they committing to Julius or Obi? While Grimes and IQ are also just going to be bench guys if they stay here behind Brunson and Mitchell, so giving 1 up seems logical unless DRose is getting traded. They gave up a 1st for Cam and he’s still out of the rotation.

We did a smart thing signing Brunson, and just gave up some 2nd rounders and cap space to do it essentially. I want to see what the small guard we already signed can do before we throw the farm away for another.

[Gravy]

Heat tanked for Wade

They literally had Lebron, Kyrie and trade a number one pick for Love and he still doesn’t think tanking helps.

Some people can’t be helped.

The Heat tanked for LeBron and it didn’t work. They got lucky Wade, the 5th pick, not top 3, became a superstar.

So one example of tanking for LeBron, who didn’t win ****, left, they tanked like 3 more times, won 1 title after LeBron CAME BACK. No, your example sucks and there aren’t others with the exception of the Spurs tanking over 20 years ago.

I dont even like the Spurs example. They didnt just decide to tank, they needed injuries to like three key players. Then needed the luck to have the third worst record and jump to 1st. With today's odds they might have got 5th and picked Tony Battie instead. Also since its so easy why havent the Spurs tanked for another Tim Duncan in the 25 years since, they dont want more rings?

[stitches]

The thing I've been thinking about is... there is a REALLY simple way for the Knicks to make Barrett truly untouchable. And this is also the way to act if you actually value him at the level of an untouchable asset - give him the max.. NOW! You give him the max now and he's off the table automatically. But that's not what the Knicks are doing. Why? What's going on in New York?

Would’ve rather traded RJ to Sac for Ivey, but if it’s for Mitchell, then there better be a serious reduction in picks being added and no other young core players. Just give Grimes the starting spot at sf in place of RJ.

This is precisely what I think is happening. Now, of course, we are all just reading tea leaves... but NYK are really not acting like they value Barrett at that level, even though they are saying they do. My point was... it's really simple to show how much you value your player who is supposedly untouchable. It's the way that will show with more than words that he is untouchable. But NYK is not doing it... why?

I think you are right and it's possible they are keeping him as a joker to include in the trade but in return give up a reduced pick haul.

Of course, that's again pure speculation on my part.

[knicksstuff]

Stein jsut reported in his newletter that he heard in Vegas that IF Leon successfully trades for Donovan Mitchell look for the Knicks to enter West brook trade talks to get away from Randle

[nyczlegacy]

I just got this bad feeling (Isiah Thomas vibes) Grimes is gonna become the goated knick of all time but we traded him away in year 2

dead ass

[TrueWarrior]

Stein jsut reported in his newletter that he heard in Vegas that IF Leon successfully trades for Donovan Mitchell look for the Knicks to enter West brook trade talks to get away from Randle

Now we’re talkin.

Trade Julius for Westbrook or Hayward regardless of Mitchell lol.