July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread

[louieOrr]

Phil had the opportunity to unload JR and needed Shump to do it.

Sure, would love to have gained the first rounder for Shump, but who would have thought Phil could get the 19th pick with Chuckaway Jr?

No way JR opts out if he's still a Knick and we all know it. We would have had 6,399,750 on the books for him.

Phil locked in Afflalo for 8mil most of which was paid for with JR $$$. We re-signed Lou and Lance both obtained in that trade.

Would you rather have a low 1st rd pick for Shump replacing Afflalo with JR?

Unless you see Affalo, Lou and Lance as future pieces, I'd rather have the 1st rounder and JR's expiring deal in 2016. And JR could have been stretched if he opted in. Dont care what he said, JR is very capable of being dumb enough to opt out. he did it twice with us.

You've said yourself Phil doesn't really have the time for a full rebuild. That was before Melo was injured and tank began though.
I believe you were spot on with that logic, and I feel that it is still applicable. Certainly those pieces are more for now. They are short term deals though. We have all of our 1st rd picks after next year, and got 2 1st's this year.

Getting that 1st round pick for Shump may have entailed him sticking around a bit longer, as he had just dislocated his shoulder.

Is it not possible the team wins a few more games during this process, trying to build value? Could this be the difference between picking 8th instead of 4th? Or, what if shump gets injured again and you get nothing, and still have JR?

These moves were necessary to provide the flexibility to get some guys that fit within the system. If Phil is successful in building a competitive team, we become a desirable destination for free agents. Phil is trying to make this happen sooner then later, so in that way, I see them as pieces that can effect our future in a positive way.

[j4remi]

Shump might have gotten a 1st a year or two ago. This year, maybe. Still wasn't 6 teams offering them a 1st. That's obviously a lie.

And any 1st that would be offered for him would be 15-30. And 15-18 is very generous of me but considering we got the 19th for THJ, though I think that was a special case similar to Mozgov/Tyson, I'll be generous and add in 15-18.

Anyway, I'd say there are few teams who'd want Shump at $10M. But there are also few teams that would offer a 1st for him. Not 1 of every 5.

I mean it's possible, but the picks would end up being heavily conditional. A 2019 lottery protected pick that becomes a seconder in 2021 or some nonsense...I could see that.

And equating Mozgov at 5 million for two years to Chandler at 14 million for half a season as similar values is about as big a reach as equating McGee's value...way too many variables that have to get pushed aside to make that work.

[isiah_thomas]

ShamsCharania 10m10 minutes ago

Brooklyn has traded guard Steve Blake to Detroit for Quincy Miller, with the Nets likely releasing Miller, league sources tell RealGM.

Is Larkin the backup pg now?

[NoLayupRule]

I can't believe some of you are still debating the Chandler and Shump trades


Phil messed up on the Chandler trade
better to have benched him and traded him late in the season than what he did
but its also one of the lesser screwups this franchise has made in the past 20 years, no 2 years, and its over so let it go

Phil should have gotten something for Shump but he didn't
ok, let it go


he's done acceptably well in free agency and the draft but again time will tell

at least its not quick fix moves he's making


its funny because people were mostly fine with Donnie trading everyone of value away to move contracts out, why not phil? I liked Jamal more than Shump or Smith. Zach was a better player than Chandler

[NoLayupRule]

ShamsCharania 10m10 minutes ago

Brooklyn has traded guard Steve Blake to Detroit for Quincy Miller, with the Nets likely releasing Miller, league sources tell RealGM.

Is Larkin the backup pg now?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Lawson in Brooklyn soon

[Thugger HBC]

Phil had the opportunity to unload JR and needed Shump to do it.

Sure, would love to have gained the first rounder for Shump, but who would have thought Phil could get the 19th pick with Chuckaway Jr?

No way JR opts out if he's still a Knick and we all know it. We would have had 6,399,750 on the books for him.

Phil locked in Afflalo for 8mil most of which was paid for with JR $$$. We re-signed Lou and Lance both obtained in that trade.

Would you rather have a low 1st rd pick for Shump replacing Afflalo with JR?

Unless you see Affalo, Lou and Lance as future pieces, I'd rather have the 1st rounder and JR's expiring deal in 2016. And JR could have been stretched if he opted in. Dont care what he said, JR is very capable of being dumb enough to opt out. he did it twice with us.

You've said yourself Phil doesn't really have the time for a full rebuild. That was before Melo was injured and tank began though.
I believe you were spot on with that logic, and I feel that it is still applicable. Certainly those pieces are more for now. They are short term deals though. We have all of our 1st rd picks after next year, and got 2 1st's this year.

I still believe that, Phil has hinted at it several times this past season as well. as far as our picks go, I give small credit, but not full because several couldnt be traded by rules. 2018 is the first that could be traded and unless 2nd's have no value several of those have been traded by Phil, but thats really outside the point.

Getting that 1st round pick for Shump may have entailed him sticking around a bit longer, as he had just dislocated his shoulder.

Is it not possible the team wins a few more games during this process, trying to build value? Could this be the difference between picking 8th instead of 4th? Or, what if shump gets injured again and you get nothing, and still have JR?

No way to know, but hard to build up value while injured which he was when traded, but not an injury that would deter anyone from a deal.

These moves were necessary to provide the flexibility to get some guys that fit within the system. If Phil is successful in building a competitive team, we become a desirable destination for free agents. Phil is trying to make this happen sooner then later, so in that way, I see them as pieces that can effect our future in a positive way.

No doubt, I've also said this numerous times as well, for the team to attract better talent they have to show they can win games BEFORE these guys will consider. Whether they fit, time will tell, the only question mark is the team is being built with a few guys who have to return to form, combined with guys who'll be learning a system and learning how to play ion the NBA. And thats on top of whether Melo will be healthy enough to put in a near full season, at a high level which will be needed for the purpose of wins.

Possible yes, probable? Not confident in such, as quite a bit have to go right...above and beyond the expected and norm. We'll certainly find out soon, definitely should be an interesting journey.

[Synciere]

I'm sure it's been discussed but no love for a passing big man like Josh Smith?

He seems to be a natural fit in the triangle, almost in the Lamar Odom role...

[Synciere]

ShamsCharania 10m10 minutes ago

Brooklyn has traded guard Steve Blake to Detroit for Quincy Miller, with the Nets likely releasing Miller, league sources tell RealGM.

Is Larkin the backup pg now?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Lawson in Brooklyn soon

They just got under the cap though. Lawson makes a lot of scratch, not sure if they can wiggle enough room/players to pull it off.

[riter]

I'm sure it's been discussed but no love for a passing big man like Josh Smith?

He seems to be a natural fit in the triangle, almost in the Lamar Odom role...

I've been saying this, and I've been a critc of Josh. But a player like him in a system like this at the vets min is worth it.
Phil may be right about Williams, however Williams has done nothing to deserve a starting spot.

[NoLayupRule]

I'm sure it's been discussed but no love for a passing big man like Josh Smith?

He seems to be a natural fit in the triangle, almost in the Lamar Odom role...

I've been saying this, and I've been a critc of Josh. But a player like him in a system like this at the vets min is worth it.
Phil may be right about Williams, however Williams has done nothing to deserve a starting spot.

no way he gets the min


teams would take a chance on him for more, if they have it which most playoff teams don't, or the exception


however no way does he come to a borderline team like ours to play the same position as melo basically

for our exception money no less

[riter]

I'm sure it's been discussed but no love for a passing big man like Josh Smith?

He seems to be a natural fit in the triangle, almost in the Lamar Odom role...

I've been saying this, and I've been a critc of Josh. But a player like him in a system like this at the vets min is worth it.
Phil may be right about Williams, however Williams has done nothing to deserve a starting spot.

no way he gets the min


teams would take a chance on him for more, if they have it which most playoff teams don't, or the exception


however no way does he come to a borderline team like ours to play the same position as melo basically

for our exception money no less

first, yeah, he's not coming here.

2nd---Detroit paying him, so even if he gets the min he's not getting the min.

3rd--he's a defensive PF that can guard small forwards. that's not the same position as Melo. The only players minutes he will be taking are Q's at the PF, Williams, and Early. if any of those guys steps up, I don't thnik Fish has a problem sitting Josh---he won't be a long term solution for this squad regardless.


I know alot of posters won't agree with this vet lineup, but it allows someone like Grant to excel and allows Z to come along slowly. I can see Z with 10 pts and 2blks coming off the bench :

Rolo
Josh
Melo
Grant/Afflalo
Jose

Or Josh can come off the bench b/c of his inconsistency. this team gives us depth and experience and enough time to play Z, Grant and Gallo.

[Greenie]

Where is JR?

[NoLayupRule]

I've been saying this, and I've been a critc of Josh. But a player like him in a system like this at the vets min is worth it.
Phil may be right about Williams, however Williams has done nothing to deserve a starting spot.

no way he gets the min


teams would take a chance on him for more, if they have it which most playoff teams don't, or the exception


however no way does he come to a borderline team like ours to play the same position as melo basically

for our exception money no less

first, yeah, he's not coming here.

2nd---Detroit paying him, so even if he gets the min he's not getting the min.

3rd--he's a defensive PF that can guard small forwards. that's not the same position as Melo. The only players minutes he will be taking are Q's at the PF, Williams, and Early. if any of those guys steps up, I don't thnik Fish has a problem sitting Josh---he won't be a long term solution for this squad regardless.


I know alot of posters won't agree with this vet lineup, but it allows someone like Grant to excel and allows Z to come along slowly. I can see Z with 10 pts and 2blks coming off the bench :

Rolo
Josh
Melo
Grant/Afflalo
Jose

Or Josh can come off the bench b/c of his inconsistency. this team gives us depth and experience and enough time to play Z, Grant and Gallo.

hey man, don't get me wrong

if he played for us Id start him at PF or SF or whatever with Melo and bring KOQ off the bench at center and Porz off the bench at PF/SF

He scares me with his IQ though. He has all the skills we need - passing, shooting, speed, defense, etc

But he takes those horrific 3s all the damn time

he looked pretty solid in the playoffs for Houston though

[Mecca]

Josh Smith is a known locker room cancer. Philosophy guys..

[nytonm]

We got good value for Shump. Dumping JR and getting a second rounder is about all we could expect for half a season of Shump and then a bill for his "market value" the season after that. THJR is locked into a rookie deal for a couple of years, has just as much upside, and hadn't suffered a significant knee injury recently. You can't compare the haul we got for each of them. We really should have moved Shump earlier but that's not Phils fault. And while we could have gotten more for Chandler we got a decent amount, two 2nds and the 15th pick from the draft the year before (not including the pg swap and cap savings). We weren't gonna do much better than that, not a big deal imo.

[Guano]

It's going to be a long season for Sac fans

[No-Man]

Shved is not coming back, going to Europe it seems.

[earthmansurfer]

I can't believe some of you are still debating the Chandler and Shump trades


Phil messed up on the Chandler trade
better to have benched him and traded him late in the season than what he did
but its also one of the lesser screwups this franchise has made in the past 20 years, no 2 years, and its over so let it go

Phil should have gotten something for Shump but he didn't
ok, let it go


he's done acceptably well in free agency and the draft but again time will tell

at least its not quick fix moves he's making


its funny because people were mostly fine with Donnie trading everyone of value away to move contracts out, why not phil? I liked Jamal more than Shump or Smith. Zach was a better player than Chandler

I think Phil wanted to get his salary off the books, same with Shump and Smith. I don't think he was focused on value, rather more cap space. But yeah, it was a bad "trade". That said -

It was a GREAT trade because it got us KP! Was a Zen trade.
No chance with Chandler and Shump and Smith staying to we hold on to that 4th spot imo. We probably fall a few places, which might have been another hidden blessing (then again we were looking at Lyles I think, and he hasn't looked good at all so far.)

[JXL]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/IAmDPick/status/620859000746217472[/tweet]

Well, there you go. We can still split the room exception with Kirk and Antetokoumpo.

[BeagleBoss]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/IAmDPick/status/620859000746217472[/tweet]

Well, there you go. We can still split the room exception with Kirk and Antetokoumpo.

No need to. They are both minimum salary players.