James Harden at 80mil over 5 years

[StutterStep]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mXtYwEejs8[/youtube]

[Capn'O]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mXtYwEejs8[/youtube]

Pretty good Dave Grohl impression there...

[j4remi]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mXtYwEejs8[/youtube]

Teams have a scouting report on him now...I think he'll adjust and get into a nice 20,5 and 5 kind of role. Not sure about TO's yet because he's gonna have the ball A LOT.

[StutterStep]

Teams have a scouting report on him now...I think he'll adjust and get into a nice 20,5 and 5 kind of role. Not sure about TO's yet because he's gonna have the ball A LOT.

What percentages and number of minutes? Though the latter is fine, since he's young and has been injury free.

I think he's a good player but man, that salary compared to OJ Mayo's? That's a travesty!

[GONYK]

OJ Mayo is looking like a bargain, huh?

[ibraheim718]

OJ Mayo is looking like a bargain, huh?

Hmmm.. Not like you to take a cheap shot at a player after a couple of bad games.

I knew this thread was going to get bumped but I thought it would be stutter who bumped it.

[GONYK]

OJ Mayo is looking like a bargain, huh?

Hmmm.. Not like you to take a cheap shot at a player after a couple of bad games.

I knew this thread was going to get bumped but I thought it would be stutter who bumped it.

I'm bored, and would rather discuss this with you guys than over at Clutchfans

It's not really a cheap shot either. I like Harden as a player, I just don't think he's a franchise cornerstone.

After seeing both players play throughout the season, but especially tonight, it's a legit question on my mind.

I mean, one hand, there is no denying that McHale is mismanaging that lineup, and seemingly putting his players in strange positions if he wants them to succeed, and Carlisle is doing the opposite of that.

From a purely financial standpoint though, you think the case can't be made about the average impact of each player so far?

[ibraheim718]

OJ Mayo is looking like a bargain, huh?

Hmmm.. Not like you to take a cheap shot at a player after a couple of bad games.

I knew this thread was going to get bumped but I thought it would be stutter who bumped it.

I'm bored, and would rather discuss this with you guys than over at Clutchfans

It's not really a cheap shot either. I like Harden as a player, I just don't think he's a franchise cornerstone.

After seeing both players play throughout the season, but especially tonight, it's a legit question on my mind.

Well this is Mayo's first real shot at getting some real playing time... but he's more of a jump shooter whereas Harden to me is best slashing to the bucket and comes across as a little smarter in game than Mayo.

As far as Harden being the cornerstone of their franchise I think that's something Morey was just saying to validate the trade... he didn't have to quite put it that way.

And in truth there are so few legitimate cornerstone franchise players in the league to begin with. But I see Harden himself learning a little about himself as a player this season and just how to affect the game.

Mayo's contract is more a reflection of him not giving a decent shot to produce more than anything else... they were both high drat picks. The money to me since I don't have to pay it is all relative and shouldn't really come into mind until the season is over and you can judge the body of work throughout the whole year.

[ibraheim718]

I mean, one hand, there is no denying that McHale is mismanaging that lineup, and seemingly putting his players in strange positions if he wants them to succeed, and Carlisle is doing the opposite of that.

From a purely financial standpoint though, you think the case can't be made about the average impact of each player so far?

So far? Mayo's been with Dallas since the jump Harden hasn't... he's probably living in a hotel right now and is learning on the fly. But it's not hard to project... I'd be shock if Harden didn't out produce Mayo in every major statistical category.

I don't even want to get into Mchale... his little thing he's doing with Jones is ridiculous and what he did at the game tonight was downright idiotic.. it was some ish that D'antoni would pull when he was here.. putting Delfino on Zbo when you're already getting smashed on the boards is ridiculous and Lin second in rebounding behind Asik is a little silly also... Patterson is a little soft and doesn't rebound the way a 4 should rebound... he needs to play Jones.

[GONYK]

Well this is Mayo's first real shot at getting some real playing time... but he's more of a jump shooter whereas Harden to me is best slashing to the bucket and comes across as a little smarter in game than Mayo.

As far as Harden being the cornerstone of their franchise I think that's something Morey was just saying to validate the trade... he didn't have to quite put it that way.

And in truth there are so few legitimate cornerstone franchise players in the league to begin with. But I see Harden himself learning a little about himself as a player this season and just how to affect the game.

Mayo's contract is more a reflection of him not giving a decent shot to produce more than anything else... they were both high drat picks. The money to me since I don't have to pay it is all relative and shouldn't really come into mind until the season is over and you can judge the body of work throughout the whole year.

Well, I agree with you for the most part. No part of me thinks Mayo is the better player. I'm just mulling on just how far that divide is between the two, and if it equates to a $10M/yr difference when it comes down to actual impact.

I mean, if Houston signed Mayo in the offseason, no fanfare would have erupted, but they would probably be in the same place in the big scheme of things. At least for this season.

I mean, if I'm paying for the ticket, I'd rather see Harden play for my money (which I guess carries it's own value in this discussion). But if I'm paying the salaries, I'd at least wonder about Mayo.

[GONYK]

I mean, one hand, there is no denying that McHale is mismanaging that lineup, and seemingly putting his players in strange positions if he wants them to succeed, and Carlisle is doing the opposite of that.

From a purely financial standpoint though, you think the case can't be made about the average impact of each player so far?

So far? Mayo's been with Dallas since the jump Harden hasn't... he's probably living in a hotel right now and is learning on the fly. But it's not hard to project... I'd be shock if Harden didn't out produce Mayo in every major statistical category.

I don't even want to get into Mchale... his little thing he's doing with Jones is ridiculous and what he did at the game tonight was downright idiotic.. it was some ish that D'antoni would pull when he was here.. putting Delfino on Zbo when you're already getting smashed on the boards is ridiculous and Lin second in rebounding behind Asik is a little silly also... Patterson is a little soft and doesn't rebound the way a 4 should rebound... he needs to play Jones.

I can't even describe what it's like to watch McHale coach. I don't understand what the endgame of his experiment is right now.

[ibraheim718]

Well this is Mayo's first real shot at getting some real playing time... but he's more of a jump shooter whereas Harden to me is best slashing to the bucket and comes across as a little smarter in game than Mayo.

As far as Harden being the cornerstone of their franchise I think that's something Morey was just saying to validate the trade... he didn't have to quite put it that way.

And in truth there are so few legitimate cornerstone franchise players in the league to begin with. But I see Harden himself learning a little about himself as a player this season and just how to affect the game.

Mayo's contract is more a reflection of him not giving a decent shot to produce more than anything else... they were both high drat picks. The money to me since I don't have to pay it is all relative and shouldn't really come into mind until the season is over and you can judge the body of work throughout the whole year.

Well, I agree with you for the most part. No part of me thinks Mayo is the better player. I'm just mulling on just how far that divide is between the two, and if it equates to a $10M/yr difference when it comes down to actual impact.

I mean, if Houston signed Mayo in the offseason, no fanfare would have erupted, but they would probably be in the same place in the big scheme of things. At least for this season.

I mean, if I'm paying for the ticket, I'd rather see Harden play for my money (which I guess carries it's own value in this discussion). But if I'm paying the salaries, I'd at least wonder about Mayo.

Without a doubt Mayo was in a situation in Memphis coming off of the bench where he probably could've started in a lot of different places. But there are things that were holding Mayo back in Memphis that led to him not getting the playing time to prove his worth and his next contract the one in Dallas was a result of that. But he's worth more than what he's being paid.

If he goes to Indiana in the trade that was rescinded two years ago maybe they don't draft George, he plays well and is then signed to a better contract than the one he's playing for now.

I think right now Harden is pressing... his first two games were out of his stratosphere and they've led to him thinking he can play to that level on a regular basis which has made his "normal" game suffer.

But I think Dallas got value with Mayo's contract and since it's so short if Mayo plays up to his potential he'll be up for a nice little raise.

[ibraheim718]

I mean, one hand, there is no denying that McHale is mismanaging that lineup, and seemingly putting his players in strange positions if he wants them to succeed, and Carlisle is doing the opposite of that.

From a purely financial standpoint though, you think the case can't be made about the average impact of each player so far?

So far? Mayo's been with Dallas since the jump Harden hasn't... he's probably living in a hotel right now and is learning on the fly. But it's not hard to project... I'd be shock if Harden didn't out produce Mayo in every major statistical category.

I don't even want to get into Mchale... his little thing he's doing with Jones is ridiculous and what he did at the game tonight was downright idiotic.. it was some ish that D'antoni would pull when he was here.. putting Delfino on Zbo when you're already getting smashed on the boards is ridiculous and Lin second in rebounding behind Asik is a little silly also... Patterson is a little soft and doesn't rebound the way a 4 should rebound... he needs to play Jones.

I can't even describe what it's like to watch McHale coach. I don't understand what the endgame of his experiment is right now.

I agree.. I have no idea what he's trying to do. I'm not John Wooden but I like to think I know the game a little.

There are some things I would immediately do differently... and the first one is getting Jones into the game so he can get all those garbage buckets off of weak side rebounds and he's one of their best shot blockers also on a team that doesn't block shots. I would also let Lin guard 2's way more.. the quicker shiftier PG's I would put Douglas on them instead and let him chase them shrimps through PnR's or use a guy like Parson's with his length to cut corners and close on pull ups. I'd start there...

[GONYK]

Without a doubt Mayo was in a situation in Memphis coming off of the bench where he probably could've started in a lot of different places. But there are things that were holding Mayo back in Memphis that led to him not getting the playing time to prove his worth and his next contract the one in Dallas was a result of that. But he's worth more than what he's being paid.

If he goes to Indiana in the trade that was rescinded two years ago maybe they don't draft George, he plays well and is then signed to a better contract than the one he's playing for now.

But I think Dallas got value with Mayo's contract and since it's so short if Mayo plays up to his potential he'll be up for a nice little raise.

I agree he will get a raise. The question is, how much do you think he'll get?

I think right now Harden is pressing... his first two games were out of his stratosphere and they've led to him thinking he can play to that level on a regular basis which has made his "normal" game suffer.

If you could have only seen the love Harden was getting around here, it was unreal. For 5 days, he was Jordan, Magic, and Bird rolled into one in people's eyes and I think he felt himself a little too hard for a minute.

I think he will eventually settle into a 20/5/5 though

[GONYK]

I agree.. I have no idea what he's trying to do. I'm not John Wooden but I like to think I know the game a little.

There are some things I would immediately do differently... and the first one is getting Jones into the game so he can get all those garbage buckets off of weak side rebounds and he's one of their best shot blockers also on a team that doesn't block shots. I would also let Lin guard 2's way more.. the quicker shiftier PG's I would put Douglas on them instead and let him chase them shrimps through PnR's or use a guy like Parson's with his length to cut corners and close on pull ups. I'd start there...

Well PPat sort of has a cult following in Houston, so I get McHale's desire to give him a longer leash. I don't get McHale's desire to have him out by the 3pt line, or to keep Terrence glued to the pine.

McHale seems to be trying to prove some point out there with his offense, and it makes no sense. Nobody understands it...especially his players .

I won't get on him for not playing Douglas though. Only 2 things will result from that: Hou losing a lead, and Toney losing his shoulders.

[HateMyThreads]

Magic Johnson said Harden will be in the MVP discussions after 2 games and Skip Bayless said he'll be in contention for MVP if the Rockets get a top 4 seed. I never laughed so hard ... I was impressed with the first 2 games but man any team Lin is on when a guy gets on a roll no one knows how to act. Its crazy to think how crazy the Harden hype got after 2 games. Sad part about it ... he played VERY average in every game aside from game 5 in the western conf finals .... I thought he was overhyped then as people saying he was the closer and new Ginolbi. Its the beard man ... look at the stats for the Thunder wins in the Western Conf finals other than game 5. If that was anyone else no one will get excited ... VERY pedestrian numbers yet people were saying he was the reason they made the finals. I mean part of the reason cool but the REAL reason was Durant, end of story.

[ibraheim718]

If you could have only seen the love Harden was getting around here, it was unreal. For 5 days, he was Jordan, Magic, and Bird rolled into one in people's eyes and I think he felt himself a little too hard for a minute.

I think he will eventually settle into a 20/5/5 though

20/5/5 and is really good though... I think the PPG will be closer to 25ppg though.. he can score twenty a game at starter minutes in his sleep.

And hey he was having fun... and it was an exciting 2 games. It's similar to all the slurping of Damien Lillard I've been reading. Good little player... really good shooter... his assists are inflated because he's surrounded by a bunch of really good jump shooters but he doesn't make the hustle plays I like to see my PG make and seems to not step on the gas enough and really press defenses. But everyone was ready to hand him the ROY award after a few good games. We just live in a knee jerk society.. such is life.. I mean for god sakes these cats are comparing this years Knicks team to the 94 Knicks team.

[ibraheim718]

Magic Johnson said Harden will be in the MVP discussions after 2 games and Skip Bayless said he'll be in contention for MVP if the Rockets get a top 4 seed. I never laughed so hard ... I was impressed with the first 2 games but man any team Lin is on when a guy gets on a roll no one knows how to act. Its crazy to think how crazy the Harden hype got after 2 games. Sad part about it ... he played VERY average in every game aside from game 5 in the western conf finals .... I thought he was overhyped then as people saying he was the closer and new Ginolbi. Its the beard man ... look at the stats for the Thunder wins in the Western Conf finals other than game 5. If that was anyone else no one will get excited ... VERY pedestrian numbers yet people were saying he was the reason they made the finals. I mean part of the reason cool but the REAL reason was Durant, end of story.

Bro he's done more than you're giving him credit for. It's not about the box score all the time man.

[ibraheim718]

I agree.. I have no idea what he's trying to do. I'm not John Wooden but I like to think I know the game a little.

There are some things I would immediately do differently... and the first one is getting Jones into the game so he can get all those garbage buckets off of weak side rebounds and he's one of their best shot blockers also on a team that doesn't block shots. I would also let Lin guard 2's way more.. the quicker shiftier PG's I would put Douglas on them instead and let him chase them shrimps through PnR's or use a guy like Parson's with his length to cut corners and close on pull ups. I'd start there...

Well PPat sort of has a cult following in Houston, so I get McHale's desire to give him a longer leash. I don't get McHale's desire to have him out by the 3pt line, or to keep Terrence glued to the pine.

McHale seems to be trying to prove some point out there with his offense, and it makes no sense. Nobody understands it...especially his players .

I won't get on him for not playing Douglas though. Only 2 things will result from that: Hou losing a lead, and Toney losing his shoulders.

Playing Douglas off the ball is not lead jeopardizing. Put Lin at the 2 on defense and Toney at the 1 on defense for stretches.. he's been doing a good job being pesky and pressuring the ball.

[GONYK]

I agree.. I have no idea what he's trying to do. I'm not John Wooden but I like to think I know the game a little.

There are some things I would immediately do differently... and the first one is getting Jones into the game so he can get all those garbage buckets off of weak side rebounds and he's one of their best shot blockers also on a team that doesn't block shots. I would also let Lin guard 2's way more.. the quicker shiftier PG's I would put Douglas on them instead and let him chase them shrimps through PnR's or use a guy like Parson's with his length to cut corners and close on pull ups. I'd start there...

Well PPat sort of has a cult following in Houston, so I get McHale's desire to give him a longer leash. I don't get McHale's desire to have him out by the 3pt line, or to keep Terrence glued to the pine.

McHale seems to be trying to prove some point out there with his offense, and it makes no sense. Nobody understands it...especially his players .

I won't get on him for not playing Douglas though. Only 2 things will result from that: Hou losing a lead, and Toney losing his shoulders.

Playing Douglas off the ball is not lead jeopardizing. Put Lin at the 2 on defense and Toney at the 1 on defense for stretches.. he's been doing a good job being pesky and pressuring the ball.

Please don't make me watch Douglas again