ImageImageImageImageImage

2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

Moderators: mpharris36, j4remi, HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks

User avatar
mpharris36
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 112,692
And1: 116,653
Joined: Nov 03, 2010
     

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#161 » by mpharris36 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:47 am

spree8 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Lemme guess.. you would trade down lol


1. Edwards
2. Lamelo
3. Trade down (for a team looking for Wiseman)
4. Deni



How do you think Wiseman is that bad where you’d prefer to trade down instead of drafting him? I don’t get it.

I really don’t care who we draft btw, I like a lot of these prospects, but Wiseman is clearly the best of the bunch in terms of potential... I just don’t think we will be able to land him so I’m not even getting my hopes up. I just don’t understand the hate on the guy or people not wanting him on this team.


I don't think he's bad he just doesn't make sense for us. We have Mitch and I strongly believe he is our current/future center. So I am going to take the value of wiseman and

For example.

Lets say we are picking 3rd and Charlotte is picking 8th

I would trade our 3rd for the 8th and there 2021 1st round pick
4-Peat! 22-25 BAF Champion Spurs:

ROSTER

Walker Kessler/Daniel Gafford/Adem Bona
Nikola Jokic/Santi Aldama/Isaiah Stewart
Aaron Nesmith/Josh Hart/Jaime Jaquez
Alex Caruso/Keon Ellis/Justin Champagnie
Steph Curry/Chris Paul/Ryan Rollins
User avatar
mpharris36
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 112,692
And1: 116,653
Joined: Nov 03, 2010
     

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#162 » by mpharris36 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:52 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Lemme guess.. you would trade down lol


1. Edwards
2. Lamelo
3. Trade down (for a team looking for Wiseman)
4. Deni

Close enough. :lol:

Not sure how I feel about Deni. He's good but I am not sure about his ceiling. I would prob pass on him but I need to look into him more


I just wanted to point out that I would take LaMelo 2nd...I just like Edwards 1 because I think he's better. So it has nothing to do with picking a PG...because like I said I think we are almost guarunteed to be picking a guard and I agree with that decision. Nothing to do with Frank :wink:

Deni is a bit of a interesting case. If he can't workout for teams prior to the draft he may drop a bit. He is a talented offensive player with good handle and play making abilities. He needs to shoot better but he has a nice looking shot that should translate.

He competes defensively too so I would say he's a bit more focused/hardworking Hezonja (who was aloof way too much). But he also defends. Maybe a more athletic Nic Batum something like that. Good playmaking (probably a secondary playmaker) but needs that shot to be better to get to the next level.
4-Peat! 22-25 BAF Champion Spurs:

ROSTER

Walker Kessler/Daniel Gafford/Adem Bona
Nikola Jokic/Santi Aldama/Isaiah Stewart
Aaron Nesmith/Josh Hart/Jaime Jaquez
Alex Caruso/Keon Ellis/Justin Champagnie
Steph Curry/Chris Paul/Ryan Rollins
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 95,453
And1: 136,793
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#163 » by 3toheadmelo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:06 am

mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
1. Edwards
2. Lamelo
3. Trade down (for a team looking for Wiseman)
4. Deni

Close enough. :lol:

Not sure how I feel about Deni. He's good but I am not sure about his ceiling. I would prob pass on him but I need to look into him more


I just wanted to point out that I would take LaMelo 2nd...I just like Edwards 1 because I think he's better. So it has nothing to do with picking a PG...because like I said I think we are almost guarunteed to be picking a guard and I agree with that decision. Nothing to do with Frank :wink:

Deni is a bit of a interesting case. If he can't workout for teams prior to the draft he may drop a bit. He is a talented offensive player with good handle and play making abilities. He needs to shoot better but he has a nice looking shot that should translate.

He competes defensively too so I would say he's a bit more focused/hardworking Hezonja (who was aloof way too much). But he also defends. Maybe a more athletic Nic Batum something like that. Good playmaking (probably a secondary playmaker) but needs that shot to be better to get to the next level.

Image

Back to Deni, a more athletic Nic Batum.. sounds like a good player but not much potential there to be a star. I wouldn't mind him I guess. Would prob take Obi over him tho at #4.
Image
It’s like when lil bitches make subliminal records, if it ain’t directed directly at me, I don’t respect it
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
RealGM
Posts: 97,424
And1: 62,547
Joined: May 16, 2005
Location: In Your Head, USA
   

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#164 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:12 am

mpharris36 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
most likely. So that would rule out Edwards, Ball, Wiseman, Deni in whatever order.

So the draft would then start at 5...


I think we’re looking at

Haliburton
Hayes
Okongwu
Toppin


add in Cole Anthony too for sure and that is the 5 we are probably lookin at. With more interest in the guards.



Anthony is dropping out of the top 10. I'm not a fan.
Free Palestine
User avatar
mpharris36
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 112,692
And1: 116,653
Joined: Nov 03, 2010
     

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#165 » by mpharris36 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:23 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Close enough. :lol:

Not sure how I feel about Deni. He's good but I am not sure about his ceiling. I would prob pass on him but I need to look into him more


I just wanted to point out that I would take LaMelo 2nd...I just like Edwards 1 because I think he's better. So it has nothing to do with picking a PG...because like I said I think we are almost guarunteed to be picking a guard and I agree with that decision. Nothing to do with Frank :wink:

Deni is a bit of a interesting case. If he can't workout for teams prior to the draft he may drop a bit. He is a talented offensive player with good handle and play making abilities. He needs to shoot better but he has a nice looking shot that should translate.

He competes defensively too so I would say he's a bit more focused/hardworking Hezonja (who was aloof way too much). But he also defends. Maybe a more athletic Nic Batum something like that. Good playmaking (probably a secondary playmaker) but needs that shot to be better to get to the next level.

Image

Back to Deni, a more athletic Nic Batum.. sounds like a good player but not much potential there to be a star. I wouldn't mind him I guess. Would prob take Obi over him tho at #4.


yeah I don't think anyone in this class has star written over them. I don't see any of these guys as 1A guys. I see guys that can be secondary options. But no Superstar types.
4-Peat! 22-25 BAF Champion Spurs:

ROSTER

Walker Kessler/Daniel Gafford/Adem Bona
Nikola Jokic/Santi Aldama/Isaiah Stewart
Aaron Nesmith/Josh Hart/Jaime Jaquez
Alex Caruso/Keon Ellis/Justin Champagnie
Steph Curry/Chris Paul/Ryan Rollins
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 95,453
And1: 136,793
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#166 » by 3toheadmelo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:05 am

mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
I just wanted to point out that I would take LaMelo 2nd...I just like Edwards 1 because I think he's better. So it has nothing to do with picking a PG...because like I said I think we are almost guarunteed to be picking a guard and I agree with that decision. Nothing to do with Frank :wink:

Deni is a bit of a interesting case. If he can't workout for teams prior to the draft he may drop a bit. He is a talented offensive player with good handle and play making abilities. He needs to shoot better but he has a nice looking shot that should translate.

He competes defensively too so I would say he's a bit more focused/hardworking Hezonja (who was aloof way too much). But he also defends. Maybe a more athletic Nic Batum something like that. Good playmaking (probably a secondary playmaker) but needs that shot to be better to get to the next level.

Image

Back to Deni, a more athletic Nic Batum.. sounds like a good player but not much potential there to be a star. I wouldn't mind him I guess. Would prob take Obi over him tho at #4.


yeah I don't think anyone in this class has star written over them. I don't see any of these guys as 1A guys. I see guys that can be secondary options. But no Superstar types.

The only guys I can see potentially being super stars (or I guess all stars) are Lamelo, Edwards and Wiseman. It's why I keep saying if we get a chance to draft one of them then I think we'll be in good shape. We prob gonna miss out on them tho so whatever.. hopefully whoever we get is a good player
Image
It’s like when lil bitches make subliminal records, if it ain’t directed directly at me, I don’t respect it
User avatar
HighRyzer83
RealGM
Posts: 12,158
And1: 5,155
Joined: Nov 20, 2004
Location: Fan on Fire

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#167 » by HighRyzer83 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:42 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:the better question you should be asking me Melo is what I would do if I was the knicks were to get the #2, #3, or #4 pick and Edwards is off the board.

then you would get my true feelings on how I rate my top 4 options for the knicks. And Hayes/Cole/Haliburton aren't in my top 4 big board.


But we’re never going to get into the top 4. We’re looking at 6-8

Last year it was 12th and 13th worst teams who got 1 and 2, so you never know with this new system.
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
RealGM
Posts: 97,424
And1: 62,547
Joined: May 16, 2005
Location: In Your Head, USA
   

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#168 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:59 am

HighRyzer83 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:the better question you should be asking me Melo is what I would do if I was the knicks were to get the #2, #3, or #4 pick and Edwards is off the board.

then you would get my true feelings on how I rate my top 4 options for the knicks. And Hayes/Cole/Haliburton aren't in my top 4 big board.


But we’re never going to get into the top 4. We’re looking at 6-8

Last year it was 12th and 13th worst teams who got 1 and 2, so you never know with this new system.


About 37% of getting into the top 4 according to Tankathon. I have to say that's better than I thought. So, maybe. Wherever we land, I just hope we end up with either Deni, Haliburton, or Edwards though I'm leaning towards Deni or Halliburton. I'm starting to have second thoughts about Edwards. He's is a stud scorer, no doubt, but he is a high usage player who takes questionable shots. Of course, that was on a bad college team. In any event, we'll have some nice options.
Free Palestine
blanko
Starter
Posts: 2,438
And1: 1,143
Joined: Mar 14, 2015

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#169 » by blanko » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:23 am

3toheadmelo wrote:The fact that he can hit pull up jumpers off the dribble.. stepbacks.. and then be a dominating force in the paint is just terrifying. Better hope he's not in the east if the Knicks don't get him
The guy is a low motor big man who settles for mid range jumpers. He aint the one.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
RealGM
Posts: 97,424
And1: 62,547
Joined: May 16, 2005
Location: In Your Head, USA
   

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#170 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:28 am

blanko wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:The fact that he can hit pull up jumpers off the dribble.. stepbacks.. and then be a dominating force in the paint is just terrifying. Better hope he's not in the east if the Knicks don't get him
The guy is a low motor big man who settles for mid range jumpers. He aint the one.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk


Melo, we already have Mitch. Plus, we're not going to get nos. 1 or 2. You're setting yourself up for disappointment. If we fall in the 4 through 8 range, who you got?
Free Palestine
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
RealGM
Posts: 97,424
And1: 62,547
Joined: May 16, 2005
Location: In Your Head, USA
   

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#171 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:58 am

I like this guy too. He's acceptable. Plus, added benefit of Clyde calling him "Obi Wan Kenobi."

Free Palestine
blanko
Starter
Posts: 2,438
And1: 1,143
Joined: Mar 14, 2015

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#172 » by blanko » Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:58 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
blanko wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:The fact that he can hit pull up jumpers off the dribble.. stepbacks.. and then be a dominating force in the paint is just terrifying. Better hope he's not in the east if the Knicks don't get him
The guy is a low motor big man who settles for mid range jumpers. He aint the one.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk


Melo, we already have Mitch. Plus, we're not going to get nos. 1 or 2. You're setting yourself up for disappointment. If we fall in the 4 through 8 range, who you got?
Best guard/wing availabe. Honeslty i wouldnt mind mannion late if we drop. You want a floor spacing guard with great vision? He is the guy late lottery.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
RealGM
Posts: 97,424
And1: 62,547
Joined: May 16, 2005
Location: In Your Head, USA
   

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#173 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:08 am

blanko wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
blanko wrote:The guy is a low motor big man who settles for mid range jumpers. He aint the one.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk


Melo, we already have Mitch. Plus, we're not going to get nos. 1 or 2. You're setting yourself up for disappointment. If we fall in the 4 through 8 range, who you got?
Best guard/wing availabe. Honeslty i wouldnt mind mannion late if we drop. You want a floor spacing guard with great vision? He is the guy late lottery.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk


I'll have to take a look at him. I'm using this time to catch up on the 2020 draft scouting reports. I really don't think we'll fall past 8. Do you?

We should give this kid Markus Howard a look in the second round. I don't know if he's worth our early SRP. He's only 5'11" but reminds me a lot of FVV (without the price tag!). But is he Trey Burke 2.0?

Free Palestine
User avatar
malik959
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,297
And1: 1,832
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
Location: Alabama (from L.I)
     

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#174 » by malik959 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:54 am

LaMelo screams everything we've hated about players on the Knicks, can't shoot the 3 (28%), and plays absolutely no defense. I use to hate watching him cherry pick in his high school games while the rest of his team played 4 on 5. Somebody please tell one point guard that shot less than 30% at a College/Euro league level, that has improved to become a decent 3pt shooter? Other than his passing I see nothing great about this kid and prefer Killian and Cole over him. Cole may not be the passer LaMelo is, but he give effort on defense and can shoot the ball much better.
User avatar
malik959
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,297
And1: 1,832
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
Location: Alabama (from L.I)
     

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#175 » by malik959 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:14 am

blanko
Starter
Posts: 2,438
And1: 1,143
Joined: Mar 14, 2015

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#176 » by blanko » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:46 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
blanko wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Melo, we already have Mitch. Plus, we're not going to get nos. 1 or 2. You're setting yourself up for disappointment. If we fall in the 4 through 8 range, who you got?
Best guard/wing availabe. Honeslty i wouldnt mind mannion late if we drop. You want a floor spacing guard with great vision? He is the guy late lottery.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk


I'll have to take a look at him. I'm using this time to catch up on the 2020 draft scouting reports. I really don't think we'll fall past 8. Do you?

We should give this kid Markus Howard a look in the second round. I don't know if he's worth our early SRP. He's only 5'11" but reminds me a lot of FVV (without the price tag!). But is he Trey Burke 2.0?

I get this sneaky feeling that Manion will rise as the draft comes closer. The only knock on him is wingspan. He is more athletic than given credit for and is a good shooter, he can pass with 1 hand with both hands, and i think if he works on his floater his drives and finishing will improve.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk
blanko
Starter
Posts: 2,438
And1: 1,143
Joined: Mar 14, 2015

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#177 » by blanko » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:53 pm

Just throwing ideas cus of the post article..
Could we package frank and our pick to move up if we drop to low?

Im just saying frank because dsj has little to no value now.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk
User avatar
Deeeez Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 49,275
And1: 55,198
Joined: Nov 12, 2004

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#178 » by Deeeez Knicks » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:17 pm

malik959 wrote:LaMelo screams everything we've hated about players on the Knicks, can't shoot the 3 (28%), and plays absolutely no defense. I use to hate watching him cherry pick in his high school games while the rest of his team played 4 on 5. Somebody please tell one point guard that shot less than 30% at a College/Euro league level, that has improved to become a decent 3pt shooter? Other than his passing I see nothing great about this kid and prefer Killian and Cole over him. Cole may not be the passer LaMelo is, but he give effort on defense and can shoot the ball much better.


Jason Kidd, Lowry, Donovan Mitchell, Ja Morant, Kemba, Danny Green....Conley, Rozier, Jrue Holiday were just above 30% but improved a lot....Fox is getting there too
Mavs
C: Horford | Goga | Paul Reed |
PF: Lauri Markkanen | Randle | Tucker
SF: Trey Murphy | Trent | Anderson | Simone
SG: Vassell | Trent | Livingston
PG: Spida | Mann | Deuce
User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,235
And1: 25,690
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#179 » by moocow007 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:24 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
blanko wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Melo, we already have Mitch. Plus, we're not going to get nos. 1 or 2. You're setting yourself up for disappointment. If we fall in the 4 through 8 range, who you got?
Best guard/wing availabe. Honeslty i wouldnt mind mannion late if we drop. You want a floor spacing guard with great vision? He is the guy late lottery.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk


I'll have to take a look at him. I'm using this time to catch up on the 2020 draft scouting reports. I really don't think we'll fall past 8. Do you?

We should give this kid Markus Howard a look in the second round. I don't know if he's worth our early SRP. He's only 5'11" but reminds me a lot of FVV (without the price tag!). But is he Trey Burke 2.0?



The problem is that he's only 5'11" (barely if even). So quite a bit of his strengths in college may not translate well. He's not explosive so I'm dubious that his "strength" of attacking the driving lanes is really going to be a strength. And if he can't keep defenses honest (sagging off of him) it's going to be hard for him to shoot against better and longer NBA defenders who likely will be guarding him real close up. His rebounding also isn't likely to be a big factor given the size and speed differences he'll see in the NBA compared to what he's seeing now. And he didn't average 30ppg in college by sharing the ball. He's going to have to really be able to reign back on the ball dominance in the NBA cause I can't see any team giving him the green light to do whatever he wants given the above. So then there's the question of how much he can really adjust his game to the NBA. Trey Burke like? Ehh. Burke was a bit more explosive at Michigan so he was able to keep defenses more honest which helped him be able to shoot. He may not be as good a pure shooter as Howard though. So...hmm. Burke will be a free agent again so the Knicks could always just sign him. :)

I would honestly focus on some of the other guys that tankathon has going in that same range as the Knicks 2nd round pick. Cassius Stanley has a very high ceiling, he's been IMO under utilized at Duke this year. Had he been given a more prominent role I think he'd be a clear 1st round pick (likely top 20). Killian Tillie is a very smart and competitive big that can pass and shoot. He would be an interesting backup to Mitch Robinson or maybe you play him with Robinson to stretch the floor and help get Mitch more easy baskets (Tillie is a very instinctive passer for a big, can zip passes in through traffic to guys on the move). Been injured quite a bit which is why his draft stock is where it is but his talent is 1st round for sure. And the 2 PG's Cassius Winston and Ashton Hagans. Both those guys are guys that make has the ability to make plays. Winston may be a bit unathletic from the NBA standpoint but his feel for where his teammates and passing is elite, is super smart and has been improving his game in areas that he's been criticized in. Hagans reminds me of Darrel Armstrong who had a pretty nice NBA career. Competitive, explosive, a motor that keeps on revving. If the PG's don't materialize for the Knicks in the 1st, either Winston or Hagans could be under the radar surprises in the 2nd round. Unlike Markus Howard, all 4 of these guys are and have been taking secondary roles on top teams and contributing. Kinda what you want with your 2nd round picks.
User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,235
And1: 25,690
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#180 » by moocow007 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:32 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
malik959 wrote:LaMelo screams everything we've hated about players on the Knicks, can't shoot the 3 (28%), and plays absolutely no defense. I use to hate watching him cherry pick in his high school games while the rest of his team played 4 on 5. Somebody please tell one point guard that shot less than 30% at a College/Euro league level, that has improved to become a decent 3pt shooter? Other than his passing I see nothing great about this kid and prefer Killian and Cole over him. Cole may not be the passer LaMelo is, but he give effort on defense and can shoot the ball much better.


Jason Kidd, Lowry, Donovan Mitchell, Ja Morant, Kemba, Danny Green....Conley, Rozier, Jrue Holiday were just above 30% but improved a lot....Fox is getting there too


And don't forget this guy too...shot 30% and 32% from 3 his 1st 2 years. Shooting 38% on higher volume this year.

Image

If he can do it, that's about as good a sign as you can have that LaMelo can do it too.

Image

My guess is that there's quite a bit of that MJ line ("Whatever you can do I can do better") going in the Ball household. And the general consensus is that LaMelo is more talented and has higher upside than Lonzo.

Return to New York Knicks