OT: NFL discussion thread

[Jay10]

I wonder how many heart attacks the New York teams have caused over the years.

[Juggynaut]

Wow both Jets and Giants win.

[HarthorneWingo]

I wonder how many heart attacks the New York teams have caused over the years.

Certainly plenty of nervous breakdowns

[mpharris36]

Daniel Jones has been good all year but this was a big time win that he carried the team.

The offensive line game him time to throw and you can see the kid can make all the throws.

He got screwed out of a TD with the Ross fumble on the inch yard line and the INT was a hail mary to end the 1st half (only INT of the season).

So he's been really good and Barkley started to look like the old Saquan in that 4th qtr.

They Giants still have zero pass rush and I really question how they will be able to beat a team with a good offense. Winston is one of the worst QB's in the NFL.

[Juggynaut]

They Giants still have zero pass rush and I really question how they will be able to beat a team with a good offense. Winston is one of the worst QB's in the NFL.

Leonard Williams mailing it in after his big contract doesn't help. Disappointing, but not unexpected. There is a reason the Jets got rid of him before his big payday.

[HarthorneWingo]

Daniel Jones has been good all year but this was a big time win that he carried the team.

The offensive line game him time to throw and you can see the kid can make all the throws.

He got screwed out of a TD with the Ross fumble on the inch yard line and the INT was a hail mary to end the 1st half (only INT of the season).

So he's been really good and Barkley started to look like the old Saquan in that 4th qtr.

They Giants still have zero pass rush and I really question how they will be able to beat a team with a good offense. Winston is one of the worst QB's in the NFL.

Not trying to be smart, but isn’t this what it always comes down to on offense?

[mpharris36]

Daniel Jones has been good all year but this was a big time win that he carried the team.

The offensive line game him time to throw and you can see the kid can make all the throws.

He got screwed out of a TD with the Ross fumble on the inch yard line and the INT was a hail mary to end the 1st half (only INT of the season).

So he's been really good and Barkley started to look like the old Saquan in that 4th qtr.

They Giants still have zero pass rush and I really question how they will be able to beat a team with a good offense. Winston is one of the worst QB's in the NFL.

Not trying to be smart, but isn’t this what it always comes down to on offense?

Oh no doubt any good team has good strong offensive line play. But you still have to have a QB that can make the right reads and the right throws.

Daniel Jones can play NFL QB and play if fairly well he just has been put in a tough situation with a lack of running game and weak offensive line.

But Andrew Thomas our LT has played amazing this year and its no surprise with our OL playing well Daniel Jones is having a really good year.

[2010]

They Giants still have zero pass rush and I really question how they will be able to beat a team with a good offense. Winston is one of the worst QB's in the NFL.

Leonard Williams mailing it in after his big contract doesn't help. Disappointing, but not unexpected. There is a reason the Jets got rid of him before his big payday.

I disagree with this. The guy is playing hard every down and does it against the pass and the run. He just doesn’t have enough help.

Ximines has done nothing to warrant his starting job. Promote Ojulari to the starting lineup and sit Ximines.

[mpharris36]

They Giants still have zero pass rush and I really question how they will be able to beat a team with a good offense. Winston is one of the worst QB's in the NFL.

Leonard Williams mailing it in after his big contract doesn't help. Disappointing, but not unexpected. There is a reason the Jets got rid of him before his big payday.

I disagree with this. The guy is playing hard every down and does it against the pass and the run. He just doesn’t have enough help.

Ximines has done nothing to warrant his starting job. Promote Olujari to the starting lineup and sit Ximines.

The problem is you are paying him to nearly the level of Aaron Donald but get nowhere near the impact on the field.

I get it he's a good player. Is he worth that contract? No way especially when he doesn't effect the passing game a lot. A very good POA run defender. But an edge rusher has much more value that an interior rusher unless you are a beast like Aaron Donald.

I do agree that an edge rusher would open up more stuff for Leonard Williams on the inside. The problem is unless you are spending a high draft pick...elite edge rushers don't make it to FA ever. Ximines is getting phased out of the DL as well. He had 17 snaps in week 3 (only 27%) of the defensive snaps. And I can't remember the specific number but I think he barely played much today. It was more Ojulari and Carter. But they still get zero pressure.

the 3 positions that rarely get filled by FA are QB, Tackle, and Edge Rusher because if you have a good one you never let them go.

Paying interior defensive lineman just like using a high draft pick on a RB just never brings back the return you want it to.

*I will mention Saquan actually sacked up and actually ran like the #2 pick in the 2nd half of this game. We will never get enough value out of that pick to warrant where we picked him but its nice to see him actually start running with a purpose again because like you said earlier in the thread...Hill was running much harder then our RB does hitting the hole and thats a problem.*

[F N 11]

Watch on YouTube

[2010]

Leonard Williams mailing it in after his big contract doesn't help. Disappointing, but not unexpected. There is a reason the Jets got rid of him before his big payday.

I disagree with this. The guy is playing hard every down and does it against the pass and the run. He just doesn’t have enough help.

Ximines has done nothing to warrant his starting job. Promote Olujari to the starting lineup and sit Ximines.

The problem is you are paying him to nearly the level of Aaron Donald but get nowhere near the impact on the field.

I get it he's a good player. Is he worth that contract? No way especially when he doesn't effect the passing game a lot. A very good POA run defender. But an edge rusher has much more value that an interior rusher unless you are a beast like Aaron Donald.

I do agree that an edge rusher would open up more stuff for Leonard Williams on the inside. The problem is unless you are spending a high draft pick...elite edge rushers don't make it to FA ever. Ximines is getting phased out of the DL as well. He had 17 snaps in week 3 (only 27%) of the defensive snaps. And I can't remember the specific number but I think he barely played much today. It was more Ojulari and Carter. But they still get zero pressure.

the 3 positions that rarely get filled by FA are QB, Tackle, and Edge Rusher because if you have a good one you never let them go.

Paying interior defensive lineman just like using a high draft pick on a RB just never brings back the return you want it to.

*I will mention Saquan actually sacked up and actually ran like the #2 pick in the 2nd half of this game. We will never get enough value out of that pick to warrant where we picked him but its nice to see him actually start running with a purpose again because like you said earlier in the thread...Hill was running much harder then our RB does hitting the hole and thats a problem.*

All true. My disagreement stems from the original statement of Leonard Williams “mailing it in” now that he has gotten paid.

I do not believe he is giving less effort now that he has his contract. He is indeed overpaid but he isn’t getting the results he got last year because he is facing a ton of attention now, being the face of the defensive line and not getting much help to open up things for him.

[mpharris36]

I disagree with this. The guy is playing hard every down and does it against the pass and the run. He just doesn’t have enough help.

Ximines has done nothing to warrant his starting job. Promote Olujari to the starting lineup and sit Ximines.

The problem is you are paying him to nearly the level of Aaron Donald but get nowhere near the impact on the field.

I get it he's a good player. Is he worth that contract? No way especially when he doesn't effect the passing game a lot. A very good POA run defender. But an edge rusher has much more value that an interior rusher unless you are a beast like Aaron Donald.

I do agree that an edge rusher would open up more stuff for Leonard Williams on the inside. The problem is unless you are spending a high draft pick...elite edge rushers don't make it to FA ever. Ximines is getting phased out of the DL as well. He had 17 snaps in week 3 (only 27%) of the defensive snaps. And I can't remember the specific number but I think he barely played much today. It was more Ojulari and Carter. But they still get zero pressure.

the 3 positions that rarely get filled by FA are QB, Tackle, and Edge Rusher because if you have a good one you never let them go.

Paying interior defensive lineman just like using a high draft pick on a RB just never brings back the return you want it to.

*I will mention Saquan actually sacked up and actually ran like the #2 pick in the 2nd half of this game. We will never get enough value out of that pick to warrant where we picked him but its nice to see him actually start running with a purpose again because like you said earlier in the thread...Hill was running much harder then our RB does hitting the hole and thats a problem.*

All true. My disagreement stems from the original statement of Leonard Williams “mailing it in” now that he has gotten paid.

I do not believe he is giving less effort now that he has his contract. He is indeed overpaid but he isn’t getting the results he got last year because he is facing a ton of attention now, being the face of the defensive line and not getting much help to open up things for him.

I think that is a fair assessment. Mailing it in is a strong statement. I don't think he's mailing it in I just think he is a limited pass rusher because he wins with power and strength. Guys like Osi/Tuck/JPP/Strahan. The best pass the giants have had in the last 20 years or so could win with either power or speed. Leonard Williams is def a more interior pass rusher so you can get taken out of a game.

Ultimately Gettleman had no choice...he made the trade so he couldn't let him go or he would have looked like more of a dummy. But I just never would have paid him that (not because he isn't a good player - just positional value wise it isn't worth it unless you are a GOAT that can consistently beat doubles like Donald does every week). But he is here and he does a lot of things well (getting the the QB consistently just isn't one of them).

But I agree I wouldn't say mailing it in is the correct use of words. That isn't fair to put that label on him.

[FrozenEnvelope]

I didn't think there was any chance we were winning this game after getting down 11 midway through the 4th. Especially after Taysom Hill just embarrassed us on that run but kudos to Jones and the team for the comeback. Happy to see Saquon make some big plays too. Kudos also to Tae Crowder who did a great job filling in for Blake Martinez.

Gonna enjoy this win cause there won't be too many this season.

[Deeeez Knicks]

It looked like another L for the Giants but good to see them come thru. They still need to clean house at the end of the year, but some good signs in this one for some of the players.

[2010]

I still don’t trust the defense due to the absence of a pass rush. But offensively I think things are coming around and the unit is gaining confidence.

Jones has gained trust and is going to start using all of his weapons now. His arm and his feet. Along with targets such as Barkley, Engram, Rudolph, Golladay, Shepard, Slayton, Toney, Ross, and Johnson. There really aren’t any slouches there. That’s a lot of talent to throw the ball to. The key will be the offensive line holding up and adopting an underdogs mentality. Andrew Thomas has been doing an excellent job.

[mpharris36]

I still don’t trust the defense due to the absence of a pass rush. But offensively I think things are coming around and the unit is gaining confidence.

Jones has gained trust and is going to start using all of his weapons now. His arm and his feet. Along with targets such as Barkley, Engram, Rudolph, Golladay, Shepard, Slayton, Toney, Ross, and Johnson. There really aren’t any slouches there. That’s a lot of talent to throw the ball to. The key will be the offensive line holding up and adopting an underdogs mentality. Andrew Thomas has been doing an excellent job.

its interesting you mention all the weapons.

I actually saw it as a blessing in disguise that shep and slayton were out. We were able to use a more condensed package and more explosive playmakers. Shep is great in the slot and Slayton is a solid...but no doubt Toney and Ross have way more big play potential.

I think that ultimately opened up more underneath and over the middle stuff for Golladay to eat. I thought Golladay was huge yesterday as well and I think Jones was really looking for him but he was able to operate more freely over the middle when guys like Shep and Slayton operate in similar areas.

Ross requires safety help all day since he is a burner.

And nice to shout out Andrew Thomas he has been playing like a stud.

Daniel Jones making me feel really good about him development as well. He was throwing dimes all over the place vs a damn good defense.

[2010]

I still don’t trust the defense due to the absence of a pass rush. But offensively I think things are coming around and the unit is gaining confidence.

Jones has gained trust and is going to start using all of his weapons now. His arm and his feet. Along with targets such as Barkley, Engram, Rudolph, Golladay, Shepard, Slayton, Toney, Ross, and Johnson. There really aren’t any slouches there. That’s a lot of talent to throw the ball to. The key will be the offensive line holding up and adopting an underdogs mentality. Andrew Thomas has been doing an excellent job.

its interesting you mention all the weapons.

I actually saw it as a blessing in disguise that shep and slayton were out. We were able to use a more condensed package and more explosive playmakers. Shep is great in the slot and Slayton is a solid...but no doubt Toney and Ross have way more big play potential.

I think that ultimately opened up more underneath and over the middle stuff for Golladay to eat. I thought Golladay was huge yesterday as well and I think Jones was really looking for him but he was able to operate more freely over the middle when guys like Shep and Slayton operate in similar areas.

Ross requires safety help all day since he is a burner.

And nice to shout out Andrew Thomas he has been playing like a stud.

Daniel Jones making me feel really good about him development as well. He was throwing dimes all over the place vs a damn good defense.

Yup, which is why I don’t want Shep or Slayton rushing back. Hammies are tricky anyway so they need to take all the time they need to get healthy and that will allow ample time for Golladay, Toney, and Ross to build chemistry with DJ. I also like Collin Johnson as a depth piece while Shep & Slay are out.

With the current personnel, as long as the line holds and gives DJ time to throw, I think we will be looking better and better offensively each week. And that’s even with Jason Garrett’s playcalling.

Now as for the defense, I’m definitely not optimistic. I think it’s suspect and we may have to eventually resort to outscoring teams if we’re gonna have a shot at getting wins.

[mpharris36]

I still don’t trust the defense due to the absence of a pass rush. But offensively I think things are coming around and the unit is gaining confidence.

Jones has gained trust and is going to start using all of his weapons now. His arm and his feet. Along with targets such as Barkley, Engram, Rudolph, Golladay, Shepard, Slayton, Toney, Ross, and Johnson. There really aren’t any slouches there. That’s a lot of talent to throw the ball to. The key will be the offensive line holding up and adopting an underdogs mentality. Andrew Thomas has been doing an excellent job.

its interesting you mention all the weapons.

I actually saw it as a blessing in disguise that shep and slayton were out. We were able to use a more condensed package and more explosive playmakers. Shep is great in the slot and Slayton is a solid...but no doubt Toney and Ross have way more big play potential.

I think that ultimately opened up more underneath and over the middle stuff for Golladay to eat. I thought Golladay was huge yesterday as well and I think Jones was really looking for him but he was able to operate more freely over the middle when guys like Shep and Slayton operate in similar areas.

Ross requires safety help all day since he is a burner.

And nice to shout out Andrew Thomas he has been playing like a stud.

Daniel Jones making me feel really good about him development as well. He was throwing dimes all over the place vs a damn good defense.

Yup, which is why I don’t want Shep or Slayton rushing back. Hammies are tricky anyway so they need to take all the time they need to get healthy and that will allow ample time for Golladay, Toney, and Ross to build chemistry with DJ. Also like Collin Johnson as well as a depth piece while Shep & Slay are out.

With the current personnel, as long as the line holds and gives DJ time to throw, I think we will be looking better and better offensively each week. And that’s even with Jason Garrett’s playcalling.

Now as for the defense, I’m definitely not optimistic. I think it’s suspect and we may have to eventually resort to outscoring teams if we’re gonna have a shot at getting wins.

we haven't played a good offensive team yet in 4 games and the defense still looks meh. They simply can't generate a pass rush so you are right to have concerns.

Dak will pick us to pieces if we can't get to him.

The Saints had the starting LT and C both out for the game and Winston still had all day to throw. Imagine what a better offensive line like the Cowboys will be able do with a stud like Dak and the weapons they have on offense?

Giants will have to play a flawless game on offense to even have a chance.

[DaGawd]

I legit missed all of Tony and Barkley’s best moments from the saints game.. turned that bitch off after the hill td. Then frantically turned it back on after checking the score just to confirm for sure the misery was over a lil bit later lol

[mpharris36]

I legit missed all of Tony and Barkley’s best moments from the saints game.. turned that bitch off after the hill td. Then frantically turned it back on after checking the score just to confirm for sure the misery was over a lil bit later lol

even after the Hill TD the giants got the ball back and had a 4th down in saints territory and mr. conservative JJ punted the ball back to the saints with like 9 minutes to go in the game and I thought that was game over.

The giants did end up making a stop and getting a nice punt return and next play Jones hit Barkley down the sideline for the 50 yard TD pass which turned the momentum around.

Something sparked Barkley because he started to be more of a one-cut guy at that point instead of dancing in the hole.

He did almost have a costly fumble in OT when he was trying to make one of those ridiculous Barkley try to make something out of nothing plays and was fortunate that the giants fell on the ball there or it would have been another soul crushing loss.