PG: Knicks-Suns, where the SL squad plays basketball better

[PeteW]

I was going through the lineup numbers just for sh*ts and giggles and after 2 minutes you can tell that the problem with the team is Kemba.

Our starting 5 man lineup (which has the most minutes of any 5 man unit in the NBA) has a net rating of -15.5. Which is god awful. And most people would look at those numbers and just say all the starters suck

However, when you check the 3-man lineup of Randle, RJ and Fournier their net rating is only -5.5.

Considering how much that lineup plays with Kemba it is pretty crazy that the lineup is 10 points better just from the few minutes they play without Kemba.

Futhermore, if you check the 4-man lineup of Rose, RJ, Randle and Fournier (that have played 73 minutes total this season) that group has a net rating of 26.6!!!

We can’t pretend anymore. Kemba is washed. You don’t put together the worst starting lineup in history, with starting level NBA players without there something being something deeper. It’s beyond basketball. While we can’t see it the numbers don’t lie. Kemba is not playing like an NBA player right now, he needs to sit

I think Thibs actually looks at advance stats believe it or not. He knows this is happening but he's too afraid to make a move and upset a vet. He thinks well just keep starting him and let the bench finishes games so Kemba ends up playing only 20 minutes anyway. Problem is you're digging in yourself in a hole to start the game and during 3rd quarters. Holes that the bench has to climb out of every game it seems.

[thebuzzardman]

Kills you when you consider that we could have traded down and drafted Booker. The draft is certainly a crap shoot - and we specialize in crap.

The Knicks never, and I mean never, make the most excellent move in the draft.

Sorry, Mitch and IQ are ok, but no. I'll bet better players still went after. And that's after blowing it with Knox and Obi. I mean, Obi is ok but there were still several better players to draft. And after Frank/Knox being terrible and RJ being ordinary, they couldn't afford that, but again, Knicks NEVER draft with excellence. It's either horrible, bad, or mediocre. That's it.

[nedleeds]

Trade Randle.

We aren't fooling anyone. He's got 4 1/2 more years on his deal. Thanks to our clown front office who signed him a year early because culcha.

[nedleeds]

I think we just need to accept the team will be average at best until a big trade happens. Might even be in the lottery and might be a couple years too. Temper expectations

Knicks haven't made a big trade to improve the team since acquiring Carmelo Anthony.

They had an excellent trade asset in KP but were gun shy when his value was super high.

Knicks have to make a move before teams are only calling about Quickley. I think Randle as the centerpiece with a young player and a 1st can get you something nice on the trade market.

Then what? What nice? Dame won't want to come to a worse team at age 31. Randle is a negative asset with 4 1/2 more years, we're going to have to attach a 1st to get back an expiring deal.

Welcome to hell.

[PeteW]

Knicks should start IQ and Grimes, probably start Fournier but MAYBE they can go with RJ, let Rose Burks hold down the 2nd unit and ask Kemba to medically retire or become a color commentator or something. Some way he can stop playing with dignity. Eat the 6 million for 2 more years.

Randle can dominate the ball more in the starting lineup but at least there are two guys who can defend at the point of attack and who can shoot.
Saying this because Randle is a 6th man scorer backup PF/C on a good team, only Knicks paid him like a starter so we are stuck with him.

None of the above is happening though. Maybe if they fire Thibs and promote Johnny Bryant or some crazy thing. Which will still take at least another year.

IQ yes, Grimes isn't ready for primetime. He has his good hustle moments but he looked like a rookie tonight.

Give him 5 or 10 games. Will it be that much worse than RJ still roboting around the court? No.

Personally I would start

IQ
Burks
RJ
Randle
Obi

It would change the whole complexion of the team, would never happen though.

[prophet_of_rage]

Randle should get pulled early in 1st and 3rd quarters so he can play more alongside the youths / bench. I think he can help elevate their game. Replace Randle with Burks and let RJ try to playmake a bit and get himself going.

What are the chances Thibs makes a change like this?

Zero

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[BugginOut]

I was going through the lineup numbers just for sh*ts and giggles and after 2 minutes you can tell that the problem with the team is Kemba.

Our starting 5 man lineup (which has the most minutes of any 5 man unit in the NBA) has a net rating of -15.5. Which is god awful. And most people would look at those numbers and just say all the starters suck

However, when you check the 3-man lineup of Randle, RJ and Fournier their net rating is only -5.5.

Considering how much that lineup plays with Kemba it is pretty crazy that the lineup is 10 points better just from the few minutes they play without Kemba.

Futhermore, if you check the 4-man lineup of Rose, RJ, Randle and Fournier (that have played 73 minutes total this season) that group has a net rating of 26.6!!!

We can’t pretend anymore. Kemba is washed. You don’t put together the worst starting lineup in history, with starting level NBA players without there something being something deeper. It’s beyond basketball. While we can’t see it the numbers don’t lie. Kemba is not playing like an NBA player right now, he needs to sit

I think Thibs actually looks at advance stats believe it or not. He knows this is happening but he's too afraid to make a move and upset a vet. He thinks well just keep starting him and let the bench finishes games so Kemba ends up playing only 20 minutes anyway. Problem is you're digging in yourself in a hole to start the game and during 3rd quarters. Holes that the bench has to climb out of every game it seems.

I get that it’s bad optics to bench Kemba, but it is what needs to happen.

When does this team play the worse? To start 1st quarters, the end of 2nd quarters and the beginning of 3rd quarters. All the times when Kemba is in the lineup.

RJ plays better with the bench, Fournier plays better with the bench, hell even Randle moves the ball and shoots better with the bench.

The only hope we have is that Kemba goes down for a bit and this team goes on a winning streak. Maybe that will force Thibs to make a change. But if something doesn’t happen soon we are going to be fighting for our lives just to make the play-in

[Spree2Houston]

No point in tanking since this year’s draft isn’t really good. Knowing this team, we’re probably trading our 1st for a future 2nd to preserve cap space. The first order of business should be firing Perry and letting Aller take over as GM

[BugginOut]

Kills you when you consider that we could have traded down and drafted Booker. The draft is certainly a crap shoot - and we specialize in crap.

The Knicks never, and I mean never, make the most excellent move in the draft.

Sorry, Mitch and IQ are ok, but no. I'll bet better players still went after. And that's after blowing it with Knox and Obi. I mean, Obi is ok but there were still several better players to draft. And after Frank/Knox being terrible and RJ being ordinary, they couldn't afford that, but again, Knicks NEVER draft with excellence. It's either horrible, bad, or mediocre. That's it.

Now you are bugging.

Who was better than IQ in the 2020 draft who was taken after?

I guess with Mitch you can argue that GTJ is better, but that’s really just preference, they are in the same tier of player.

Also for our draft range Obi is doing better than everyone picked around him. (Okoro, Deni, Hayes, Jelen Smith, Kira, etc.)

You can argue Halliburton, but he has been slumping hard this year and hasn’t improved in anything.

Maxey has been really good, but we were never going to reach that far anyway.

[louisorr]

we just don't move the ball enough. Everything would be improved if we averaged one more pass per possession. guy calling the duke game just said the first pass of a good offensive possession is a bad shot. we gotta get easier shots period. its messing up our defense as well.

[Orange Mamba]

Is Quick our most promising young player at this point?

[DaGawd]

Is Quick our most promising young player at this point?

Undoubtedly

[GONYK]

“Maximum effort and maximum concentration — you have to put the two of those things together and that’s what gives you intensity,’’ Thibodeau said. “There’s no magic formula for this, no shortcuts. That’s what intensity is. The guys that could do it day after day, those are the most intense guys.’’

-Thibs

[knicksNOTslick]

“Maximum effort and maximum concentration — you have to put the two of those things together and that’s what gives you intensity,’’ Thibodeau said. “There’s no magic formula for this, no shortcuts. That’s what intensity is. The guys that could do it day after day, those are the most intense guys.’’

-Thibs

Thibs is mad inconsistent though because he still plays players who play with zero intensity. Isn't that why Knox doesn't play? Kid has a ton of talent but lacks intensity so he gets benched. Thibs has to do the same with the veterans. He has no balls to do it.

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

Still the Mecca though!!!!!!!!!!

[Capn'O]

Kemba just said “you can tell that team really plays for each other.”

Knicks players keep saying stuff like this about other teams. Seems like shots fired on the slick. They gotta be lowkey saying their own team doesn’t. At least not for a sustained period.

Definitely taking a shot. It’s obvious there are issues with the players. Breen and Clyde point it out, we point it out, players themselves bring it up . It’s that obvious that nobody, except Randle, is sweeping it under the rug.

Right and as our so called "leader" why hasn't he called for a players only meeting? Is he afraid the rest of the team would call him out?

They need one. He's definitely a different player than last year.

[Iron Mantis]

I think we just need to accept the team will be average at best until a big trade happens. Might even be in the lottery and might be a couple years too. Temper expectations

Knicks haven't made a big trade to improve the team since acquiring Carmelo Anthony.

They had an excellent trade asset in KP but were gun shy when his value was super high.

Knicks have to make a move before teams are only calling about Quickley. I think Randle as the centerpiece with a young player and a 1st can get you something nice on the trade market.

Then what? What nice? Dame won't want to come to a worse team at age 31. Randle is a negative asset with 4 1/2 more years, we're going to have to attach a 1st to get back an expiring deal.

Welcome to hell.

Not Dame....a young backcourt player.

It's the FO's job to due their DD and see which players can be had for the right deal.

[BugginOut]

“Maximum effort and maximum concentration — you have to put the two of those things together and that’s what gives you intensity,’’ Thibodeau said. “There’s no magic formula for this, no shortcuts. That’s what intensity is. The guys that could do it day after day, those are the most intense guys.’’

-Thibs

C’mon. It’s beyond just “playing hard” at this point. It’s a lot deeper than that

[Capn'O]

Every GM makes the same "mistakes" with this owner. The way we don't prioritize the development of young players is a feature, not a bug with any particular GM. Our biggest hope is that Evan absolutely balls out so we can move him and one of our young guys breaks out massively so they have to play him. Otherwise, young players are a means to an end to acquire established names.

The next GM won't do it differently.

[RHODEY]

Definitely taking a shot. It’s obvious there are issues with the players. Breen and Clyde point it out, we point it out, players themselves bring it up . It’s that obvious that nobody, except Randle, is sweeping it under the rug.

Right and as our so called "leader" why hasn't he called for a players only meeting? Is he afraid the rest of the team would call him out?

They need one. He's definitely a different player than last year.

I think the team's real leader Drose should call the meeting. But they all act like they are afraid of Randle...