What does an RJ extension look like?

[Ghetto Gospel]

I know what I said, and just to be sure I'm looking at it right now, and if you want to go there RJ was in the 87th percentile this season as an isolation defender, Thybulle was in the 39th percentile, sure looks like he's limited in certain matchups. So, De'Andre is not better than RJ, despite being 2 and a half years older? Got it.

here let me put the whole thing here so we're looking at the same thing

Thybulle is limited in who he can guard, he's great at the 1-2 and some 3s, but the bigger wings give him trouble. The Celtics wings take turns scorching him because he's just too small to really bother either of them. He's more of a team defender than he is a man to man guy, where as RJ has more versatility in who he can guard on a man to man basis.

so you say only thybulle is on the same level as rj on defense, i claim he isn't on thybulle's level, and then you start arguing with me about thybulle vs rj's defense

have you looked at anything other than isolation defense?

basketball reference has RJ as a clear negative on defense: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barrerj01.html
fivethirtyeight has RJ as a clear negative on defense: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

i didn't know being on the same level on defense was only about iso defense. i guess we don't really understand what playing as a team looks like

I'm confused by what the quote is supposed to prove, a year after I said that RJ was better in man to man, he was better by a huge margin as a man to man defender and borderline elite, while Thybulle is still limited in man to man and is a better team defender. You make me look like a prophet, especially since I didn't say outright better, like you initially claimed.


Also, it's interesting that you're trying to use defensive rating, because defensive rating didn't matter when you were trying to say De'Andre was a better defender than RJ, even though he had a 114 DRTG and RJ had a 110 DRTG when you were making that argument, interesting, very interesting.

so you agree with me that RJ is not one of the best defenders in his draft class and isn't on the same level as thybulle? i don't see why you argued with me on that point last year then

also, it's very interesting now that i'm taking a closer look at the i presume you're using nba.com isolation stats? so on the 0.7fga/game that RJ barrett has defending isolation he's an 87% defender. < 1 fga/game is where you're hanging your hat on RJ's defense? which makes up for approximately 6% of RJ's defensive posessions? interesting, very interesting

i was looking at DBPM, i think it's a more accurate representation of defense than DRTG. so no don't assume i'm making that argument

[god shammgod]

now i know why i retired. dueling page length essays about this damn robot. i like you both and all but i didn't read 1 word.

[Kampuchea]

whats the hold up?..Zion, Ja and Garland got paid....

Is this a serious question? Do you put RJ in that group?

He was drafted 3rd

I still like RJ over Garland potential wise

[Kampuchea]

now i know why i retired. dueling page length essays about this damn robot. i like you both and all but i didn't read 1 word.

No lie - I almost used the shammgod bat signal in my last post instead of that other image. Looks like I didn't need to

[Synciere]

here let me put the whole thing here so we're looking at the same thing



so you say only thybulle is on the same level as rj on defense, i claim he isn't on thybulle's level, and then you start arguing with me about thybulle vs rj's defense

have you looked at anything other than isolation defense?

basketball reference has RJ as a clear negative on defense: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barrerj01.html
fivethirtyeight has RJ as a clear negative on defense: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

i didn't know being on the same level on defense was only about iso defense. i guess we don't really understand what playing as a team looks like

I'm confused by what the quote is supposed to prove, a year after I said that RJ was better in man to man, he was better by a huge margin as a man to man defender and borderline elite, while Thybulle is still limited in man to man and is a better team defender. You make me look like a prophet, especially since I didn't say outright better, like you initially claimed.


Also, it's interesting that you're trying to use defensive rating, because defensive rating didn't matter when you were trying to say De'Andre was a better defender than RJ, even though he had a 114 DRTG and RJ had a 110 DRTG when you were making that argument, interesting, very interesting.

so you agree with me that RJ is not one of the best defenders in his draft class and isn't on the same level as thybulle? i don't see why you argued with me on that point last year then

also, it's very interesting now that i'm taking a closer look at the i presume you're using nba.com isolation stats? so on the 0.7fga/game that RJ barrett has defending isolation he's an 87% defender. < 1 fga/game is where you're hanging your hat on RJ's defense? which makes up for approximately 6% of RJ's defensive posessions? interesting, very interesting

i was looking at DBPM, i think it's a more accurate representation of defense than DRTG. so no don't assume i'm making that argument

Just because...

[Kampuchea]

[NoDopeOnSundays]

here let me put the whole thing here so we're looking at the same thing



so you say only thybulle is on the same level as rj on defense, i claim he isn't on thybulle's level, and then you start arguing with me about thybulle vs rj's defense

have you looked at anything other than isolation defense?

basketball reference has RJ as a clear negative on defense: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barrerj01.html
fivethirtyeight has RJ as a clear negative on defense: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

i didn't know being on the same level on defense was only about iso defense. i guess we don't really understand what playing as a team looks like

I'm confused by what the quote is supposed to prove, a year after I said that RJ was better in man to man, he was better by a huge margin as a man to man defender and borderline elite, while Thybulle is still limited in man to man and is a better team defender. You make me look like a prophet, especially since I didn't say outright better, like you initially claimed.


Also, it's interesting that you're trying to use defensive rating, because defensive rating didn't matter when you were trying to say De'Andre was a better defender than RJ, even though he had a 114 DRTG and RJ had a 110 DRTG when you were making that argument, interesting, very interesting.

so you agree with me that RJ is not one of the best defenders in his draft class and isn't on the same level as thybulle? i don't see why you argued with me on that point last year then

also, it's very interesting now that i'm taking a closer look at the i presume you're using nba.com isolation stats? so on the 0.7fga/game that RJ barrett has defending isolation he's an 87% defender. < 1 fga/game is where you're hanging your hat on RJ's defense? which makes up for approximately 6% of RJ's defensive posessions? interesting, very interesting

i was looking at DBPM, i think it's a more accurate representation of defense than DRTG. so no don't assume i'm making that argument

Actually, this is what I said that got you to name drop De'Andre

Name a better two way player from the 2019 draft, matter of fact he's quickly approaching best defensive player from that draft overall. Only Thybulle and maybe Martin are on his level defensively on the wing, and they're soon to be 24 and already 25.

Name a better two way player, you said Hunter and was wrong, I said Thybulle was on RJ's level defensively, just they had different strengths. Either way, you were wrong about Hunter.

You keep falling into traps, teams don't go at great man to man defenders, RJ defended 19 more isolation possessions last season than Jrue Holiday, thanks for playing see yourself out. Chanel tried the same thing with possessions, without realizing RJ defended more possessions in isolation last season than all but 1 of the all-defense guards/wings, now he admits that RJ is a good man to man defender.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

now i know why i retired. dueling page length essays about this damn robot. i like you both and all but i didn't read 1 word.

I feel like your retirement is a WWE storyline now, everyday you're telling us why you left the board never to be seen again.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Not a fan of a max for RJ. Would prefer to wait until next year for this conversation to happen.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

[Kampuchea]

[Ghetto Gospel]

I'm confused by what the quote is supposed to prove, a year after I said that RJ was better in man to man, he was better by a huge margin as a man to man defender and borderline elite, while Thybulle is still limited in man to man and is a better team defender. You make me look like a prophet, especially since I didn't say outright better, like you initially claimed.


Also, it's interesting that you're trying to use defensive rating, because defensive rating didn't matter when you were trying to say De'Andre was a better defender than RJ, even though he had a 114 DRTG and RJ had a 110 DRTG when you were making that argument, interesting, very interesting.

so you agree with me that RJ is not one of the best defenders in his draft class and isn't on the same level as thybulle? i don't see why you argued with me on that point last year then

also, it's very interesting now that i'm taking a closer look at the i presume you're using nba.com isolation stats? so on the 0.7fga/game that RJ barrett has defending isolation he's an 87% defender. < 1 fga/game is where you're hanging your hat on RJ's defense? which makes up for approximately 6% of RJ's defensive posessions? interesting, very interesting

i was looking at DBPM, i think it's a more accurate representation of defense than DRTG. so no don't assume i'm making that argument

Actually, this is what I said that got you to name drop De'Andre

Name a better two way player from the 2019 draft, matter of fact he's quickly approaching best defensive player from that draft overall. Only Thybulle and maybe Martin are on his level defensively on the wing, and they're soon to be 24 and already 25.

Name a better two way player, you said Hunter and was wrong, I said Thybulle was on RJ's level defensively, just they had different strengths. Either way, you were wrong about Hunter.

You keep falling into traps, teams don't go at great man to man defenders, RJ defended 19 more isolation possessions last season than Jrue Holiday, thanks for playing see yourself out. Chanel tried the same thing with possessions, without realizing RJ defended more possessions in isolation last season than all but 1 of the all-defense guards/wings, now he admits that RJ is a good man to man defender.

i was wrong about hunter, and you're still wrong about thybulle and rj being on the same level on defense

trap? the most frequently targeted defender in iso last year was greg monroe at 2.2 fga/game. wow so on the 0.6 fga/game RJ is amazing. don't really understand how "teams don't really go at good defenders" is relevant because clearly according to these stats that you're referencing, teams don't really go at bad iso defenders either at 2.2fga/game. have a nice day

[DowNY]

Not a fan of a max for RJ. Would prefer to wait until next year for this conversation to happen.

Doubt he gets the max. The ones who got the max so far are guys who made an allstar game at least.

[Fury]

1 dollar for every time Chanel dissed him

[NoDopeOnSundays]

so you agree with me that RJ is not one of the best defenders in his draft class and isn't on the same level as thybulle? i don't see why you argued with me on that point last year then

also, it's very interesting now that i'm taking a closer look at the i presume you're using nba.com isolation stats? so on the 0.7fga/game that RJ barrett has defending isolation he's an 87% defender. < 1 fga/game is where you're hanging your hat on RJ's defense? which makes up for approximately 6% of RJ's defensive posessions? interesting, very interesting

i was looking at DBPM, i think it's a more accurate representation of defense than DRTG. so no don't assume i'm making that argument

Actually, this is what I said that got you to name drop De'Andre

Name a better two way player from the 2019 draft, matter of fact he's quickly approaching best defensive player from that draft overall. Only Thybulle and maybe Martin are on his level defensively on the wing, and they're soon to be 24 and already 25.

Name a better two way player, you said Hunter and was wrong, I said Thybulle was on RJ's level defensively, just they had different strengths. Either way, you were wrong about Hunter.

You keep falling into traps, teams don't go at great man to man defenders, RJ defended 19 more isolation possessions last season than Jrue Holiday, thanks for playing see yourself out. Chanel tried the same thing with possessions, without realizing RJ defended more possessions in isolation last season than all but 1 of the all-defense guards/wings, now he admits that RJ is a good man to man defender.

i was wrong about hunter, and you're still wrong about thybulle and rj being on the same level on defense

trap? the most frequently targeted defender in iso last year was greg monroe at 2.2 fga/game. wow so on the 0.6 fga/game RJ is amazing. and the most targeted defenders get hit by 2.2fga/game. don't really understand how "teams don't really go at good defenders" is relevant because clearly according to these stats that you're referencing, teams don't really go at bad iso defenders either. have a nice day

I value two way players, sorry but Thybulle isn't one, therefore RJ clears him either way




Yes, trap, you didn't realize Marcus Smart only defended 41 iso possessions, Holiday defended 40, Thybulle 47 and Bridges 68, while our RJ defended 59 of them, the guys who are labeled elite get teams to go away from them. If we can put another good man to man defender next to RJ our team defense will improve because there's 1 less avenue to target, since we know they can't go at RJ directly. In the playoffs the numbers jump, guys get targeted.


At the end of the day RJ > Hunter

[moocow007]

Not a fan of a max for RJ. Would prefer to wait until next year for this conversation to happen.

Yeah would not jump on a big max extension for RJ just yet. The Knicks still are in control regardless. That said, with this FO you never know lol.

[Ghetto Gospel]

Actually, this is what I said that got you to name drop De'Andre




Name a better two way player, you said Hunter and was wrong, I said Thybulle was on RJ's level defensively, just they had different strengths. Either way, you were wrong about Hunter.

You keep falling into traps, teams don't go at great man to man defenders, RJ defended 19 more isolation possessions last season than Jrue Holiday, thanks for playing see yourself out. Chanel tried the same thing with possessions, without realizing RJ defended more possessions in isolation last season than all but 1 of the all-defense guards/wings, now he admits that RJ is a good man to man defender.

i was wrong about hunter, and you're still wrong about thybulle and rj being on the same level on defense

trap? the most frequently targeted defender in iso last year was greg monroe at 2.2 fga/game. wow so on the 0.6 fga/game RJ is amazing. and the most targeted defenders get hit by 2.2fga/game. don't really understand how "teams don't really go at good defenders" is relevant because clearly according to these stats that you're referencing, teams don't really go at bad iso defenders either. have a nice day

I value two way players, sorry but Thybulle isn't one, therefore RJ clears him either way

Yes, trap, you didn't realize Marcus Smart only defended 41 iso possessions, Holiday defended 40, Thybulle 47 and Bridges 68, while our RJ defended 59 of them, the guys who are labeled elite get teams to go away from them. If we can put another good man to man defender next to RJ our team defense will improve because there's 1 less avenue to target, since we know they can't go at RJ directly. In the playoffs the numbers jump, guys get targeted.


At the end of the day RJ > Hunter

yeah, i guess guys like trae young and bradley beal are elite man defenders as well because not only are they in a lot of iso possessions but they are effective defending them, real key stat you got there.

trae young: 86% in isolation and teams only attempt 0.4 fga/game on him
bradley beal: 92% in isolation and teams only attempting 0.3 fga/game on him

we do have an effective man defender we can put next to rj. according to these stats, i'm looking at alec burks, 88% in isolation defense. if we put burks in next to him at the wing our team defense will be good?

[NoDopeOnSundays]

i was wrong about hunter, and you're still wrong about thybulle and rj being on the same level on defense

trap? the most frequently targeted defender in iso last year was greg monroe at 2.2 fga/game. wow so on the 0.6 fga/game RJ is amazing. and the most targeted defenders get hit by 2.2fga/game. don't really understand how "teams don't really go at good defenders" is relevant because clearly according to these stats that you're referencing, teams don't really go at bad iso defenders either. have a nice day

I value two way players, sorry but Thybulle isn't one, therefore RJ clears him either way

Yes, trap, you didn't realize Marcus Smart only defended 41 iso possessions, Holiday defended 40, Thybulle 47 and Bridges 68, while our RJ defended 59 of them, the guys who are labeled elite get teams to go away from them. If we can put another good man to man defender next to RJ our team defense will improve because there's 1 less avenue to target, since we know they can't go at RJ directly. In the playoffs the numbers jump, guys get targeted.


At the end of the day RJ > Hunter

yeah, i guess guys like trae young and bradley beal are elite man defenders as well because not only are they in a lot of iso possessions but they are effective defending them, real key stat you got there.

trae young: 86% in isolation and teams only attempt 0.4 fga/game on him
bradley beal: 92% in isolation and teams only attempting 0.3 fga/game on him

we do have an effective man defender we can put next to rj. according to these stats, i'm looking at alec burks, 88% in isolation defense. if we put burks in next to him at the wing our team defense will be good?

Beal had 18 total possessions on the season, I can see why you're trying so hard to break it down to per game, because then your Fox News approach to stats wouldn't hold up.

Outliers exist everywhere, the fact that Jrue Holiday and other great defenders are represented well, what was Young's percentile in the playoffs?


Burks actually was a good defender this year, it's his offense that sucked.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Happy Anniversary RJ!!! And to many more!

Read on Twitter

?s=21&t=hcfVZD2x_SIRimugaFK0SA

[Ghetto Gospel]

I value two way players, sorry but Thybulle isn't one, therefore RJ clears him either way

Yes, trap, you didn't realize Marcus Smart only defended 41 iso possessions, Holiday defended 40, Thybulle 47 and Bridges 68, while our RJ defended 59 of them, the guys who are labeled elite get teams to go away from them. If we can put another good man to man defender next to RJ our team defense will improve because there's 1 less avenue to target, since we know they can't go at RJ directly. In the playoffs the numbers jump, guys get targeted.


At the end of the day RJ > Hunter

yeah, i guess guys like trae young and bradley beal are elite man defenders as well because not only are they in a lot of iso possessions but they are effective defending them, real key stat you got there.

trae young: 86% in isolation and teams only attempt 0.4 fga/game on him
bradley beal: 92% in isolation and teams only attempting 0.3 fga/game on him

we do have an effective man defender we can put next to rj. according to these stats, i'm looking at alec burks, 88% in isolation defense. if we put burks in next to him at the wing our team defense will be good?

Beal had 18 total possessions on the season, I can see why you're trying so hard to break it down to per game, because then your Fox News approach to stats wouldn't hold up.

Outliers exist everywhere, the fact that Jrue Holiday and other great defenders are represented well, what was Young's percentile in the playoffs?


Burks actually was a good defender this year, it's his offense that sucked.

it's your narrative that teams don't target elite man defenders. those are your words right? Beal had 18 total possessions on the season in 40 games. extrapolate that over the course of a full season and he would be targeted about 36 times. less than all those elite man defenders. now all of a sudden sample size is a problem and i'm taking a fox news approach to stats?

you said all we'd need is 1 good wing man to man defender for us to have a good team defense. according to this, we have it in burks, so why was our team defense bad then? you said teams target these weak defensive players in the playoffs. check how many times trae young was put in this in 5 playoff games. oh that's right 0.6 fga/game in the playoffs

here are more

cj mccollum 98% in NO
deaaron fox 95%
cj mccollum 94% in POR

wow CJ mccollum must be elite to show up so high in % for both teams

and no, not all great defenders are represented well. i'm sure there are many others as well

jimmy butler 19%
giannis 30%
draymond green 20%
anthony davis 36%
matisse thybulle 39%

i'm kinda done looking at this stat that looks at < 1 possession per game for these players. it's baffling to me that you are even considering the relevance of this and hanging your hat so heavily on it.