Russia-Ukraine War Part 2

[Clyde_Style]

Read on Twitter

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This is an important development

Erdogan is shifting away from Putin and siding with Ukraine and NATO

It doesn't mean Erdogan is doing so for any moral reason as the comment I found below suggests, but it matters for the right reasons nonetheless.

Today is the 500th day in the Russian-Ukrainian war and we now know how weak Putin is. President Zelinskyy was visiting Turkey and Erdogan. After the visit President Zelinskyy waited at the airport for a bus that had the Azovstal defenders. These were the commanders of the garrison in Mariupol. Turkey made an agreement with Russia to hold these men in Turkey until the war ended. Erdogan broke that agreement and sent the men home to Ukraine with President Zelinskyy.

[drekwins]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

This is an important development

Erdogan is shifting away from Putin and siding with Ukraine and NATO

It doesn't mean Erdogan is doing so for any moral reason as the comment I found below suggests, but it matters for the right reasons nonetheless.

Today is the 500th day in the Russian-Ukrainian war and we now know how weak Putin is. President Zelinskyy was visiting Turkey and Erdogan. After the visit President Zelinskyy waited at the airport for a bus that had the Azovstal defenders. These were the commanders of the garrison in Mariupol. Turkey made an agreement with Russia to hold these men in Turkey until the war ended. Erdogan broke that agreement and sent the men home to Ukraine with President Zelinskyy.

Fantastic. Anything that shows less/fractured support between Russia and Turkey, India, Saudi Arabia, China & Iran is always a win.

[HopelessKnick]

With the U.S. sending cluster munitions we have yet another confirmation of the U.S. unlimited willingness to sink to lower and lower lows.

[HopelessKnick]

In regards to Turkey, Ukraine and Azov I would keep an eye on the grain deal. There have been many rumors that the russian were looking to get out of the grain deal and enforce a complete blockade of the black sea. The reason for this is:

a) the europeans did not hold their part of the bargain so that the russians could not sell any grain on the market. So essentially they had zero financial benefit from the grain deal.

b) According to rumors the routes to the ports of Odessa were used for weapon deliveries.

So essentially the russians had zero interest in staying in the grain deal and they wanted to get out of it. However, they also didn't want to be the "culprit" that broke the grain deal. With Turkey and Ukraine now officially breaking a part of the grain deal, the russians will likely point that fact and not renew the grain deal. I would expect some sort of anouncement (that the russians are not going to stay/re-new the deal) in regards to the grain deal within the next 2-3 weeks.

[fleet]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

This is an important development

Erdogan is shifting away from Putin and siding with Ukraine and NATO

It doesn't mean Erdogan is doing so for any moral reason as the comment I found below suggests, but it matters for the right reasons nonetheless.

Today is the 500th day in the Russian-Ukrainian war and we now know how weak Putin is. President Zelinskyy was visiting Turkey and Erdogan. After the visit President Zelinskyy waited at the airport for a bus that had the Azovstal defenders. These were the commanders of the garrison in Mariupol. Turkey made an agreement with Russia to hold these men in Turkey until the war ended. Erdogan broke that agreement and sent the men home to Ukraine with President Zelinskyy.

Erdogan would want to be strongly associated with the eventual winner if it happens to be Ukraine. Lays groundwork, must be seeing the possibility.

[Clyde_Style]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

This is an important development

Erdogan is shifting away from Putin and siding with Ukraine and NATO

It doesn't mean Erdogan is doing so for any moral reason as the comment I found below suggests, but it matters for the right reasons nonetheless.

Today is the 500th day in the Russian-Ukrainian war and we now know how weak Putin is. President Zelinskyy was visiting Turkey and Erdogan. After the visit President Zelinskyy waited at the airport for a bus that had the Azovstal defenders. These were the commanders of the garrison in Mariupol. Turkey made an agreement with Russia to hold these men in Turkey until the war ended. Erdogan broke that agreement and sent the men home to Ukraine with President Zelinskyy.

Erdogan would want to be strongly associated with the eventual winner if it happens to be Ukraine. Lays groundwork, must be seeing the possibility.

Plus Erdogan barely won his re-election so he's placing his bets accordingly.

[fleet]

With the U.S. sending cluster munitions we have yet another confirmation of the U.S. unlimited willingness to sink to lower and lower lows.

Russia must be very upset that their cluster munitions already being used are less efficient than western made. War is hell. Ukraine is asking for the rounds, and they are the ones with skin in the game. Not backbenchers and Russian assets in the west complaining.

[Clyde_Style]

With the U.S. sending cluster munitions we have yet another confirmation of the U.S. unlimited willingness to sink to lower and lower lows.

by comparison to the noble Russian military of course

[drekwins]

With the U.S. sending cluster munitions we have yet another confirmation of the U.S. unlimited willingness to sink to lower and lower lows.

You must choose your evil. Every direction leads to death. At the end of the day, you have to look at the most basic fundamental aspect that caused this conflict: If Russia did not invade Ukraine, there would be no war.

[HopelessKnick]

You must choose your evil wisely. The russians have x-fold the amount of cluster munitions that the U.S. possesses. As soon as Ukraine starts using them the russians will use it simply in much larger quantities as well. Keep in mind cluster munitions were originally created to stop advancing forces, not to break fortified defensive positions. In the breach of fortified defensive positions they are much less effective. Ask any military person you know. It is common knowledge. I don't see how the use of cluster munitions is going to benefit Ukraine (at least in the south) at all.

It is pure desperation, there is almost no military sense or logic behind it. Sending a munition that is much more detrimental to advancing forces and that the other side has in much larger quantities is not going to improve Ukraine's position at all.

[HopelessKnick]

With the U.S. sending cluster munitions we have yet another confirmation of the U.S. unlimited willingness to sink to lower and lower lows.

You must choose your evil. Every direction leads to death. At the end of the day, you have to look at the most basic fundamental aspect that caused this conflict: If Russia did not invade Ukraine, there would be no war.

The criticism of cluster munition is not that it causes death---which is the goal of every weapon system...it is that the munition will go into the ground and stay there indefinitely even years after the conflict and civilians are gonna step on it.

[HopelessKnick]

With the U.S. sending cluster munitions we have yet another confirmation of the U.S. unlimited willingness to sink to lower and lower lows.

Russia must be very upset that their cluster munitions already being used are less efficient than western made. War is hell. Ukraine is asking for the rounds, and they are the ones with skin in the game. Not backbenchers and Russian assets in the west complaining.

Do you have even the slightest clue about this conflict? Nope , thought so.

[fleet]

With the U.S. sending cluster munitions we have yet another confirmation of the U.S. unlimited willingness to sink to lower and lower lows.

Russia must be very upset that their cluster munitions already being used are less efficient than western made. War is hell. Ukraine is asking for the rounds, and they are the ones with skin in the game. Not backbenchers and Russian assets in the west complaining.

Do you have even the slightest clue about this conflict? Nope , thought so.

Well, I live in Phoenix. Maybe not. But I do learn, and pass things on that I have read about when I can.

Read on Twitter

[HopelessKnick]

Russia must be very upset that their cluster munitions already being used are less efficient than western made. War is hell. Ukraine is asking for the rounds, and they are the ones with skin in the game. Not backbenchers and Russian assets in the west complaining.

Do you have even the slightest clue about this conflict? Nope , thought so.

Well, I live in Phoenix. Maybe not. But I do learn, and pass things on that I have read about when I can.

Read on Twitter

First off, the guy is a ukrainian author. Anything in this conflict coming directly from the russian or ukrainian side should be taken with a huge pinch of salt. Second, you are using again the same narrative that has been used ad nauseum in this conflict--insert:

......U.S. or western weapon or weapon system is much more efficient than the russian ones. In reality all the deliveries of all these more efficient weapon systems have lead up to this point. The U.S. sending in outlawed weapon systems that even their european allies (Germany for example) despicable and are currently contemplating sending in the last straw....ATCMS long range missiles....you would have thought that if these weapon systems were indeed more efficient, by now there would have been a major change in momentum in the war---however we have come to the point of the U.S. sinking lower and lower, running out of ammunition and getting more desperate by the minute. These deliveries are not a sign of strength but a sign of weakness and desperation.

The only reason this war is still ongoing is because Biden is trying to prevent an ukrainian defeat prior to the re-elections. A defeat prior to that would essentially end his re-election chances......there has long been no sense and no benefit for Ukraine in anything the US has done over the past 9 years. There were multiple possibilities for the U.S. to have prevented this war if it had truly cared about Ukraine.

[drekwins]

With the U.S. sending cluster munitions we have yet another confirmation of the U.S. unlimited willingness to sink to lower and lower lows.

You must choose your evil. Every direction leads to death. At the end of the day, you have to look at the most basic fundamental aspect that caused this conflict: If Russia did not invade Ukraine, there would be no war.

The criticism of cluster munition is not that it causes death---which is the goal of every weapon system...it is that the munition will go into the ground and stay there indefinitely even years after the conflict and civilians are gonna step on it.

I understand this but I fully support weapon systems that are more lethal, impactful and that cause an increased psychological impact amongst the Russian front-line. Russia is already planting an incredible amount of land-mines and dropping cluster munitions left and right on Ukrainians and throughout Ukrainian territory.

To that effect, I also support phosphorous munitions to be used on the front lines. I support anything to get Russia off of Ukrainian land and for the self-defense of the Ukrainian country. If these weapons were for offensive purposes in Russia, I would feel much different. However, as long as Russia remains in the sovereign Ukrainian territory, I hope they get torn up. I understand the gravity of what I am saying. Once again, all Russia has to do to avoid this is to go back to Russian territory.

I wish this did not have to happen. I wish Ukrainians could live a normal life. I wish the Russians came to their senses. However, this is self defense. Therefore, they shall take it up with God.

[HopelessKnick]

You must choose your evil. Every direction leads to death. At the end of the day, you have to look at the most basic fundamental aspect that caused this conflict: If Russia did not invade Ukraine, there would be no war.

The criticism of cluster munition is not that it causes death---which is the goal of every weapon system...it is that the munition will go into the ground and stay there indefinitely even years after the conflict and civilians are gonna step on it.

I understand this but I fully support weapon systems that are more lethal, impactful and that cause an increased psychological impact amongst the Russian front-line. Russia is already planting an incredible amount of land-mines and dropping cluster munitions left and right on Ukrainians and throughout Ukrainian territory.

To that effect, I also support phosphorous munitions to be used on the front lines. I support anything to get Russia off of Ukrainian land and for the self-defense of their country. If this were used for offensive purposes in Russia, I would feel much different. However,t as long as Russia is in the sovereign Ukrainian territory, I hope they get torn up. I understand the gravity of what I am saying. Once again, all Russia has to do to avoid this is to go back to Russian territory.

But it is senseless as the russians possess this munition and vastly superior quantities. It is not going to work in Ukraine's favor.

One question out of personal interest....is the position you are positing generally your position in regards to war dynamics (like after being attacked, that country should be given all thinkable munition to fend off the attacker?)?

[HopelessKnick]

You must choose your evil. Every direction leads to death. At the end of the day, you have to look at the most basic fundamental aspect that caused this conflict: If Russia did not invade Ukraine, there would be no war.

The criticism of cluster munition is not that it causes death---which is the goal of every weapon system...it is that the munition will go into the ground and stay there indefinitely even years after the conflict and civilians are gonna step on it.

I understand this but I fully support weapon systems that are more lethal, impactful and that cause an increased psychological impact amongst the Russian front-line. Russia is already planting an incredible amount of land-mines and dropping cluster munitions left and right on Ukrainians and throughout Ukrainian territory.

To that effect, I also support phosphorous munitions to be used on the front lines. I support anything to get Russia off of Ukrainian land and for the self-defense of the Ukrainian country. If these weapons were for offensive purposes in Russia, I would feel much different. However, as long as Russia remains in the sovereign Ukrainian territory, I hope they get torn up. I understand the gravity of what I am saying. Once again, all Russia has to do to avoid this is to go back to Russian territory.

I wish this did not have to happen. I wish Ukrainians could live a normal life. I wish the Russians came to their senses. However, this is self defense. Therefore, they shall take it up with God.

BTW they are not more impactful. They get sent there because the U.S. is out of regular artillery munitions to send there (which are much more effective). On top of that cluster munitions work mainly against the attacking force, not against fortified defensive positions. An increase of cluster munitions on the southern front is going to work to Ukraine's detriment, not advantage.

[drekwins]

The criticism of cluster munition is not that it causes death---which is the goal of every weapon system...it is that the munition will go into the ground and stay there indefinitely even years after the conflict and civilians are gonna step on it.

I understand this but I fully support weapon systems that are more lethal, impactful and that cause an increased psychological impact amongst the Russian front-line. Russia is already planting an incredible amount of land-mines and dropping cluster munitions left and right on Ukrainians and throughout Ukrainian territory.

To that effect, I also support phosphorous munitions to be used on the front lines. I support anything to get Russia off of Ukrainian land and for the self-defense of their country. If this were used for offensive purposes in Russia, I would feel much different. However,t as long as Russia is in the sovereign Ukrainian territory, I hope they get torn up. I understand the gravity of what I am saying. Once again, all Russia has to do to avoid this is to go back to Russian territory.

But it is senseless as the russians possess this munition and vastly superior quantities. It is not going to work in Ukraine's favor.

One question out of personal interest....is the position you are positing generally your position in regards to war dynamics (like after being attacked, that country should be given all thinkable munition to fend off the attacker?)?

Russia is already using them. Russia has munitions of every type and all different power levels. They have used cluster munitions. They have used phosphorous. They're not simply playing down to their opponent and only matching what Ukraine uses. I'm not sure where that is coming from. Russia IS using these weapons.

Also, it is very important to make Russia feel as much pain as possible. The goal of the current state of this war isnt just to advance. That is an objective but there is also an incentive to cause havoc within Russia to put pressure on leadership to end the war. If more soldiers are going home in body bags and front-line soldiers are calling home scared, Ukraine benefits. Russian wives, mothers and children need to go to bed every single night thinking about the real possibility of their loved ones dying. That causes an uprising. That causes a change in support.

The psychological aspect of this war is pivotal for Ukraine. Every time Russians get a little comfortable with what they're fighting against, increase the firepower. It's a gut punch. It takes the wind out of their sails. I support continued increases in lethality and quantity of weapons until Russia leaves Ukraine.

[HopelessKnick]

So is this a principle of yours because Russia attacked Ukraine?

[drekwins]

The criticism of cluster munition is not that it causes death---which is the goal of every weapon system...it is that the munition will go into the ground and stay there indefinitely even years after the conflict and civilians are gonna step on it.

I understand this but I fully support weapon systems that are more lethal, impactful and that cause an increased psychological impact amongst the Russian front-line. Russia is already planting an incredible amount of land-mines and dropping cluster munitions left and right on Ukrainians and throughout Ukrainian territory.

To that effect, I also support phosphorous munitions to be used on the front lines. I support anything to get Russia off of Ukrainian land and for the self-defense of the Ukrainian country. If these weapons were for offensive purposes in Russia, I would feel much different. However, as long as Russia remains in the sovereign Ukrainian territory, I hope they get torn up. I understand the gravity of what I am saying. Once again, all Russia has to do to avoid this is to go back to Russian territory.

I wish this did not have to happen. I wish Ukrainians could live a normal life. I wish the Russians came to their senses. However, this is self defense. Therefore, they shall take it up with God.

BTW they are not more impactful. They get sent there because the U.S. is out of regular artillery munitions to send there (which are much more effective). On top of that cluster munitions work mainly against the attacking force, not against fortified defensive positions. An increase of cluster munitions on the southern front is going to work to Ukraine's detriment, not advantage.

Then, why is Russia so upset? There is absolutely an advantage to these munitions. They cause a larger area of damage.