Randle's Future

[DaGawd]

yall remember when kat **** the bed in the playoffs just a couple months ago? yea trust me guys, you dont want him here.

im taking randle over his soft ass any day. plus thibs doesnt like the guy. this is never gonna happen. move on fellas

"For his career, Randle has appeared in 15 postseason contests. In those games, he has averaged 17.1 points, 9.4 rebounds, 0.5 steals and 0.2 blocks while shooting a putrid 34.4% from the field and 28.3% from downtown. He also has more turnovers (58) than assists (56)." - Tommy Beer

I don't think either is the answer, but I'm more open to KAT now than previous years.

Context matters. How you gunna ignore him being injured and needing surgery in 2023 or him having zero help and being doubled every possession in 2021?

**** the hawks were triple teaming him in 2021… derrick rose bring the best help he had was criminal

[VirginiaKnickFan]

Randle’s going to come out beasting this season and none of you have been dumping on him all offseason will admit you were wrong. But Melo has been keeping files on all of you.

[WaltFrazier]

man, fck KAT.

that's just changing one problem for another problem. randle is unstable but he isn't soft like KAT. KAT is a straight up loser. I'm not opposed to moving Randle but it would have to be the right piece(s). Randle adds something this team desperately needs a 2nd creator. they would need to replace his ability to create while also hopefully bringing in another C if they move him.

which i honestly don't think they want to do. Dolan loves Randle.

There's smoke with the KAT stuff, if they could get him and Richards or Kessler as well, and play him at the 4, we'd probably be better simply because we'd be able to go small when the time comes with a floor spacing 5 and all 3 of the perimeter guys out there with him. Saying KAT is soft is soft is one thing, at the end of the day his worst playoff run is better than Randle's best so far.

Randle's creation has been terrible in the playoffs, and there's also the prospect that Mikal Bridges is going to get touches, as well as OG to a lesser extent. If they're bringing Mikal here to just play the Donte role it's a waste, if they're trying to find the guy he was for those 31 games in 2023 (Playoffs included) with the Nets that's going to require him having the ball or the ball moving more than it normally does.

Dolan can love Randle, the front office is making the decisions, and extending him now could be a massive mistake. I don't see the point in doing it now, if he has a flame out in the playoffs we're screwed if he's extended, if he plays well you just sign him, and if you want to bring him back after a flame out do it at a lowered rate, it's not like there's going to be some robust market for him. The rest of the league is not as high on him as people are here.

I agree entirely that this FO is evaluating Randle's place in the team's future. They may not have come to a conclusion yet, but I doubt they are all-in on him at this point. If they offer to extend him before the season I would be surprised.

As far as folks who say we need a second scorer, I'm like hello? We now have Bridges who can give you similar production, OG is a legit three point scorer who can give you 15 to 25 depending on the game, we gave guys coming off the bench who can score.

It's a false narrative that Randle's production as 2nd option is the conclusive factor. Does he give us a scorer in the middle? Yes. But Brunson is basically a midget who is top 5 in paint scoring already so he is already technically a bully baller supreme.

While having a big who scores mostly by rumbling into the paint has value, this team is going to score in bunches with solid on and off the ball movement. If everyone is sharing the rock we have points coming from everywhere on the floor other than the C position. And Randle is not a C.

Getting to the rack and scoring is not solely based on size. We'll get more paint scoring from two basic sources:

a league leading defense that produces fast break opportunities
and
having a starting unit that can't be double-teamed without leaving a legit shooter open which will equal more drop passes to cutters besides open jumpers

As this team is constructed, Randle may fit well, but not necessarily be essential to the offense. If he was at all motivated on defense then I'd be more supportive of him remaining a Knick, but frankly his attitude on defense is unprofessional garbage.

And you're correct about the market for Randle being sketchy. No one is beating down the doors to obtain his services, because of his bi-polar seasons and playoff history. The FO would be foolish to over commit at this point.

Lots of good points there. But I think Randle's value as a #2 scorer comes from his ability to get his own shot. Mikal has a bit of that but mostly he needs to play off others, as does OG. The trick is can Randle mostly fit in a ball movement offense and just pick his spots to go iso like at the end of shot clocks.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Randle is a big key for this team. I think we are going to need him to play some min at C, although not sure if Thibs will deviate and go that way.

Unless he’s willing to sign for really cheap I think you let it ride and see what happens

Lol, that mural looks nothing like Randle too

[sol537]

Today is the big day! I think we’ll find out from “sources” one way or another…

I’m hopeful he takes a 4-year extension at less than the max we can currently offer… so 4 years $165 or something with the final year being a player option for flexibility.

[cldbld]

I for one, want Randle on this team. Somehow someway.

[seren]

Can someone post the numbers if he picks up his option and extend max he could from that number vs decline option and extend max he could? I think if he picks up his option and extend, that could be acceptable for the front office

[aggo]

So does Randle want to be a Knick?

[3toheadmelo]

yall remember when kat **** the bed in the playoffs just a couple months ago? yea trust me guys, you dont want him here.

im taking randle over his soft ass any day. plus thibs doesnt like the guy. this is never gonna happen. move on fellas

"For his career, Randle has appeared in 15 postseason contests. In those games, he has averaged 17.1 points, 9.4 rebounds, 0.5 steals and 0.2 blocks while shooting a putrid 34.4% from the field and 28.3% from downtown. He also has more turnovers (58) than assists (56)." - Tommy Beer

I don't think either is the answer, but I'm more open to KAT now than previous years.

Context matters. How you gunna ignore him being injured and needing surgery in 2023 or him having zero help and being doubled every possession in 2021?

Cook

[Iron Mantis]

Read on Twitter

Great artwork, but that looks nothing like Randle.

[3toheadmelo]

So does Randle want to be a Knick?

what do you think agg0

Read on Twitter

[Iron Mantis]

yall remember when kat **** the bed in the playoffs just a couple months ago? yea trust me guys, you dont want him here.

im taking randle over his soft ass any day. plus thibs doesnt like the guy. this is never gonna happen. move on fellas

"For his career, Randle has appeared in 15 postseason contests. In those games, he has averaged 17.1 points, 9.4 rebounds, 0.5 steals and 0.2 blocks while shooting a putrid 34.4% from the field and 28.3% from downtown. He also has more turnovers (58) than assists (56)." - Tommy Beer

I don't think either is the answer, but I'm more open to KAT now than previous years.

Context matters. How you gunna ignore him being injured and needing surgery in 2023 or him having zero help and being doubled every possession in 2021?

Excuses matter.

If a person is injured, and thus, can't hit a shot...they shouldn't force the issue, leading to those abysmal numbers.

He had a capable roster playing alongside him. It was his responsibility to refocus his energy into defense, rebounding, and being a decoy/ball-mover on offense.

[3toheadmelo]

Randle’s going to come out beasting this season and none of you have been dumping on him all offseason will admit you were wrong. But Melo has been keeping files on all of you.

Going to be fun bumping all of these terrible takes by awful posters

[3toheadmelo]

Randle is a big key for this team. I think we are going to need him to play some min at C, although not sure if Thibs will deviate and go that way.

Unless he’s willing to sign for really cheap I think you let it ride and see what happens

Lol, that mural looks nothing like Randle too

I think Mikal is gonna look really good next to Randle. He should feast with all the open looks hes gonna get

[HarthorneWingo]

Randle’s going to come out beasting this season and none of you have been dumping on him all offseason will admit you were wrong. But Melo has been keeping files on all of you.

Going to be fun bumping all of these terrible takes by awful posters

Deplorable

[JayTWill]

yall remember when kat **** the bed in the playoffs just a couple months ago? yea trust me guys, you dont want him here.

im taking randle over his soft ass any day. plus thibs doesnt like the guy. this is never gonna happen. move on fellas

"For his career, Randle has appeared in 15 postseason contests. In those games, he has averaged 17.1 points, 9.4 rebounds, 0.5 steals and 0.2 blocks while shooting a putrid 34.4% from the field and 28.3% from downtown. He also has more turnovers (58) than assists (56)." - Tommy Beer

I don't think either is the answer, but I'm more open to KAT now than previous years.

Context matters. How you gunna ignore him being injured and needing surgery in 2023 or him having zero help and being doubled every possession in 2021?

Context does matter. As far as the 2021 season Randle was credited for improving his game after the bubble season but this narrative has been adjusted over time as far as his failures. Even with Randle's improvement the team was around 4 games below .500 before the trade for Rose which had a huge impact on the success of the team as things began to click.

Heading into the playoffs almost everyone including myself expected the Knicks to win especially after seeing how dominant Randle was against the Hawks in the regular season. He put up some monstrous stat lines while just physically dominating Collins. The Hawks came out with Hunter on Randle to start the series and Collins on Elfrid. Thibs adjust by removing Elfrid from the rotation completely after minimizing his role throughout the season.

Removing Elfrid didn't help and possibly hurt the bench while Randle still struggled with the Hawks walling off the paint and giving him extra attention but that should be expected for an opposing team's #1 option. The Hawks won easily in 5 games. At the end of the day the biggest difference between the Hawks and the Knicks was that their #1 option and their gameplan was more difficult to stop than the Knicks #1 option and their gameplan.

It wasn't because Randle had no help when Rose still provided the offensive punch that he did all season and actually led the team in scoring for the playoffs. It wasn't because Elfrid was so negative in his total of 13 minutes in the entire 5 game series. It wasn't because the Hawks didn't have a similar level of over-acheivement during the regular where they made a similar jump after a coaching change. It wasn't because the Hawks had a superior level of talent. There was no huge skill difference between prime Bullocks and Burks and young Hunter and Huerter. Rose wasn't some inferior second option in comparison to whoever the Hawks second option was.

Randle simply struggled with his shooting and decision making under pressure. Thibs predictable gameplan didn't help and Randle is clearly not a #1 option on a successful playoff team which is ok. If the Hawks threw the same defense at Jokic he would have picked them apart. Honestly I think if the Knicks had the ability to swap Randle and maybe Thibs for Young and possibly another forward to balance the roster they easily win that series imo.

Julius simply struggled in his role and I don't blame him since he obviously wasn't qualified for the role that was given to him but you can't give him all the credit for the regular season success and then absolve him from blame of the postseason failures. He played a role in both.

[spree2kawhi]

Randle’s going to come out beasting this season and none of you have been dumping on him all offseason will admit you were wrong. But Melo has been keeping files on all of you.

Who cares? Dude‘s wrong all the time too

[Iron Mantis]

"For his career, Randle has appeared in 15 postseason contests. In those games, he has averaged 17.1 points, 9.4 rebounds, 0.5 steals and 0.2 blocks while shooting a putrid 34.4% from the field and 28.3% from downtown. He also has more turnovers (58) than assists (56)." - Tommy Beer

I don't think either is the answer, but I'm more open to KAT now than previous years.

Context matters. How you gunna ignore him being injured and needing surgery in 2023 or him having zero help and being doubled every possession in 2021?

Context does matter. As far as the 2021 season Randle was credited for improving his game after the bubble season but this narrative has been adjusted over time as far as his failures. Even with Randle's improvement the team was around 4 games below .500 before the trade for Rose which had a huge impact on the success of the team as things began to click.

Heading into the playoffs almost everyone including myself expected the Knicks to win especially after seeing how dominant Randle was against the Hawks in the regular season. He put up some monstrous stat lines while just physically dominating Collins. The Hawks came out with Hunter on Randle to start the series and Collins on Elfrid. Thibs adjust by removing Elfrid from the rotation completely after minimizing his role throughout the season.

Removing Elfrid didn't help and possibly hurt the bench while Randle still struggled with the Hawks walling off the paint and giving him extra attention but that should be expected for an opposing team's #1 option. The Hawks won easily in 5 games. At the end of the day the biggest difference between the Hawks and the Knicks was that their #1 option and their gameplan was more difficult to stop than the Knicks #1 option and their gameplan.

It wasn't because Randle had no help when Rose still provided the offensive punch that he did all season and actually led the team in scoring for the playoffs. It wasn't because Elfrid was so negative in his total of 13 minutes in the entire 5 game series. It wasn't because the Hawks didn't have a similar level of over-acheivement during the regular where they made a similar jump after a coaching change. It wasn't because the Hawks had a superior level of talent. There was no huge skill difference between prime Bullocks and Burks and young Hunter and Huerter. Rose wasn't some inferior second option in comparison to whoever the Hawks second option was.

Randle simply struggled with his shooting and decision making under pressure. Thibs predictable gameplan didn't help and Randle is clearly not a #1 option on a successful playoff team which is ok. If the Hawks threw the same defense at Jokic he would have picked them apart. Honestly I think if the Knicks had the ability to swap Randle and maybe Thibs for Young and possibly another forward to balance the roster they easily win that series imo.

Julius simply struggled in his role and I don't blame him since he obviously wasn't qualified for the role that was given to him but you can't give him all the credit for the regular season success and then absolve him from blame of the postseason failures. He played a role in both.

Excellent post.

[aggo]

well?

[spree8]

"For his career, Randle has appeared in 15 postseason contests. In those games, he has averaged 17.1 points, 9.4 rebounds, 0.5 steals and 0.2 blocks while shooting a putrid 34.4% from the field and 28.3% from downtown. He also has more turnovers (58) than assists (56)." - Tommy Beer

I don't think either is the answer, but I'm more open to KAT now than previous years.

Context matters. How you gunna ignore him being injured and needing surgery in 2023 or him having zero help and being doubled every possession in 2021?

Excuses matter.

If a person is injured, and thus, can't hit a shot...they shouldn't force the issue, leading to those abysmal numbers.

He had a capable roster playing alongside him. It was his responsibility to refocus his energy into defense, rebounding, and being a decoy/ball-mover on offense.

Seems like a pretty superficial response…

1: If he made 1.2 FG’s and 0.5 3P’s more per game in the 23’ PO’s, he would’ve matched his RS %… I don’t think that constitutes as abysmal. He also took more than 4 FGA’s per game less in the PO’s than he did in the RS. So he wasn’t forcing it. He averaged the same amount of APG per 36 mins (he played 2mpg less on average). So he was deferring more to those capable teammates and shooting a lot less. Also had a lower USG%.

2: It’s not excuses, it’s what actually happened. There’s obviously a reason for the difference in performance between the RS and PO. That reason is an injury requiring surgery after the PO. Keep in mind, he injured it twice… once before the PO and then during the PO. Let’s also not forget the other major blows he took during the PO from Jarrett Allen and Bam… cheap shot causing him to fall from a dunk and land on his back, and receive a concussion level elbow to the head/eye by one of the dirtiest and strongest players in the game.

3: He turned the ball over 0.7 times more per game than the RS, and shot 4% less on his FT’s but took 1.5 FTA’s less per game. With the smaller sample sizes of RS-PO, the differences (especially TS%) look a lot worse than they really were because you’re only looking at a few games of data. Having a busted ankle twice over, really affects your shooting ability and your overall mobility, so defense/hustle/etc aren’t going to be easy… look at Hart this year getting that abdominal injury, his hustle fell off a cliff as a result, but he kept trying to play thru it yet nobody trashes him or claims he’s making excuses.

Again, it looks a lot worse than it was, but could he have sat out altogether? Sure, but the dude wanted to try for his team and the city. I can’t blame him for that. Could Thibs have come up with something different to have him be more effective? Possibly, or maybe he could’ve just sat him like he did with OG this year to save him from himself….