PG: Embarrassing loss to ORL

[sol537]

All but the Thibs enthusiasts see where this is headed…

-Mikal’s iron man streak ends (or Hart misses time)
-JB/KAT miss time
-OG needing rest
-Thibs overcompensating by overplaying others
-NYK limping into playoffs as 3rd/4th seed
-NYK bounced in first or second round
-Thibs canned
-Wasted season

[NoDopeOnSundays]

This happens every season and people start thinking the sky is falling and then we run off another 8 in a row

Disagree, last year was different, he didn't start going crazy with the minutes until after Julius, OG and Ihart got hurt Jan-Feb. It started after IHart went out a couple games after Randle/OG, then he went ballistic with Hart's minutes and put Precious on the bench to start Josh at the 4.

This year right out of the gate he's been crazy with the minutes, we're at a point now where Mikal is playing the most minutes anyone has played in 12 years, he's the first guy to hit 39mpg in that time and his minutes are actually increasing. He's at 41mpg since December. With how hard he's pushing the team it's not going to make it to the playoffs healthy, we saw it fall apart last year, and that was with just 3 months of it, no way this team can last 8 months doing it.

Because our depth was way better last year imo

Way better? Not really, the bench last season after Josh got put into the starting 5 averaged 24.0ppg, which was 28th in the league, this year the bench averages 20ppg which is 30th. The bench last year collectively played 1 more mpg than this one, there's been a trend with us using the bench less and less every season.


How little this bench plays is pretty much unprecedented in the last 20 years, and last year's bench played only slightly more. In the 5 years he's been here we've had 19th, 23rd, 27th 29th and 30th benches in terms of MPG. It's a feature, only way he'll play the bench is if we get him 2021 D. Rose.

[spree8]

Brunson could have played better if he wasn't hobbled. OG could play better if he wasn't hobbled. KAT/Deuce could have played if they weren't injured. The bench could play better if they ever got a consistent role and minutes to form chemistry with the rest of the team. Which in turn would help prevent the players from getting banged up.

Imagine not blaming the person who makes all of this happen. Do lots of coke to work harder to make more money to buy lots of coke to work harder.

Thibs has reached his plateau. We will stagnate and after another year of wasted time he will be fired. It's all been done before everywhere he has ever coached.

we blaming thibs for deuce?

What I think is funny is that the bench that doesn’t get to play much are the ones who have been injured the most, Mitch coming off the bench behind Ihart last year missing the whole season now, shamet shoulder dislocation in preseason. Precious hamstring in preseason out 2 months. Payne’s missed games, deuce is missing games

It’s not just injuries tho. Why do you guys keep acting like that’s the only issue with heavy minutes? People are broken records on here including me about all the chain reactions it causes, yet you only focus on injuries. It branches out into every aspect of in-game performance. How do you guys not get it?

[seren]

Sorry, but the talent on the bench is just not good enough. We are really expecting an injury riddled Robinson to sustain being healthy come playoff time, with Duece being the only dependable real bench player. This team needs a legit wing that can shoot off the bench, and a big that can provide interior defense. Everyone is waiting for Mitch to come back and the dude will get injured at some point again. Shamet is not a legit wing.

Same excuse was made about McBride when he wasn’t playing last year. Precious was playing 30+ mpg averaging double double last year as a starter. These are excuses. Bench should play for the sake of health. If we lose a game or two because of that, let be it.

I am okay with the rookies getting burn even if it does not yield results.

But the overall bench still sucks.

We all understand this is a top heavy team. Doesn’t excuse the coach to go crazy with the minutes and ignore rookies completely. We are in January. This is the time to expand the rotation and see what you got. Seriously I would rather be a few wins down but at least have an idea what these guys can provide.

[Parraknick]

Disagree, last year was different, he didn't start going crazy with the minutes until after Julius, OG and Ihart got hurt Jan-Feb. It started after IHart went out a couple games after Randle/OG, then he went ballistic with Hart's minutes and put Precious on the bench to start Josh at the 4.

This year right out of the gate he's been crazy with the minutes, we're at a point now where Mikal is playing the most minutes anyone has played in 12 years, he's the first guy to hit 39mpg in that time and his minutes are actually increasing. He's at 41mpg since December. With how hard he's pushing the team it's not going to make it to the playoffs healthy, we saw it fall apart last year, and that was with just 3 months of it, no way this team can last 8 months doing it.

Because our depth was way better last year imo

Way better? Not really, the bench last season after Josh got put into the starting 5 averaged 24.0ppg, which was 28th in the league, this year the bench averages 20ppg which is 30th. The bench last year collectively played 1 more mpg than this one, there's been a trend with us using the bench less and less every season.


How little this bench plays is pretty much unprecedented in the last 20 years, and last year's bench played only slightly more. In the 5 years he's been here we've had 19th, 23rd, 27th 29th and 30th benches in terms of MPG. It's a feature, only way he'll play the bench is if we get him 2021 D. Rose.

This season is almost like an extension of the Philly / Indy playoff series’

[DaGawd]

That pistons pick is really going to convey huh

they’re actually solid…

[Butch718]

Or perhaps their legs are shot after all the back to backs they had to play 40+ minutes. Bench doesn’t know what to do because we don’t run practices anymore

It’s all the above.

But the bench is still pathetic. Lowest production in the league with or without the starters playing too many minutes.

This was by design. Our best bench player is McBride who wasn’t in the regular rotation until last January. Nobody is calling Thibs to give the bench 100 minutes a game. All he needs to do is strategically rest starters throughout the game and go easy on them during the blowouts. There is no excuse what Thibs has been doing. At the very start I was like maybe he is trying to make sure the starters get used to playing with each other which is still a lame excuse but whatever. It became a cartoonishly stubborn way of doing things with the dude keeping them on the floor until the last minute of the games even when we have 20+ leads.

And how can we even judge the bench when they get absolutely no time? Kolek had 36 for the Gleague just a few days ago. How bad could he be not to get even 5 mpg consistently? Both Dadiet and Hukporti showed flashes. Nobody is saying they should get 30 minutes a game. All you have to do is give them a few meaningful minutes throughout the game and give the frigging starters some rest. That is all

I am looking at the bigger picture, not just tonight or the regular season.

Even if Thibs plays bench guys and rookies more minutes, this does not alleviate any issues come playoff time. You will need dependable guys coming off the bench. Playoff basketball is more intense and physical. This team needs more than Mitch and Deuce. They need another wing.

[robillionaire]

Disagree, last year was different, he didn't start going crazy with the minutes until after Julius, OG and Ihart got hurt Jan-Feb. It started after IHart went out a couple games after Randle/OG, then he went ballistic with Hart's minutes and put Precious on the bench to start Josh at the 4.

This year right out of the gate he's been crazy with the minutes, we're at a point now where Mikal is playing the most minutes anyone has played in 12 years, he's the first guy to hit 39mpg in that time and his minutes are actually increasing. He's at 41mpg since December. With how hard he's pushing the team it's not going to make it to the playoffs healthy, we saw it fall apart last year, and that was with just 3 months of it, no way this team can last 8 months doing it.

Because our depth was way better last year imo

Way better? Not really, the bench last season after Josh got put into the starting 5 averaged 24.0ppg, which was 28th in the league, this year the bench averages 20ppg which is 30th. The bench last year collectively played 1 more mpg than this one, there's been a trend with us using the bench less by and less every season.


How little this bench plays is pretty much unprecedented in the last 20 years, and last year's bench played only slightly more. In the 5 years he's been here we've had 19th, 23rd, 27th 29th and 30th benches in terms of MPG. It's a feature.

I meant way better before Randle got injured. I mean even you said he didn’t start going crazy until Jan/Feb. what about before that? It shows if we actually had the capable personnel it likely wouldn’t be this way. This year right out of the gate we had no precious or shamet or mitch or whoever else. Now deuce. The bench has not just been bad but sporadic on availability. And it’s a glut of backup guards with no backup wing on the roster. Outside of the starting 5 it’s a poorly constructed roster with a depth problem. The depth problem leads to the minutes problem

[Parraknick]

It’s all the above.

But the bench is still pathetic. Lowest production in the league with or without the starters playing too many minutes.

This was by design. Our best bench player is McBride who wasn’t in the regular rotation until last January. Nobody is calling Thibs to give the bench 100 minutes a game. All he needs to do is strategically rest starters throughout the game and go easy on them during the blowouts. There is no excuse what Thibs has been doing. At the very start I was like maybe he is trying to make sure the starters get used to playing with each other which is still a lame excuse but whatever. It became a cartoonishly stubborn way of doing things with the dude keeping them on the floor until the last minute of the games even when we have 20+ leads.

And how can we even judge the bench when they get absolutely no time? Kolek had 36 for the Gleague just a few days ago. How bad could he be not to get even 5 mpg consistently? Both Dadiet and Hukporti showed flashes. Nobody is saying they should get 30 minutes a game. All you have to do is give them a few meaningful minutes throughout the game and give the frigging starters some rest. That is all

I am looking at the bigger picture, not just tonight or the regular season.

Even if Thibs plays bench guys and rookies more minutes, this does not alleviate any issues come playoff time. You will need dependable guys coming off the bench. Playoff basketball is more intense and physical. This team needs more than Mitch and Deuce. They need another wing.

I think we all agree on that, but we don’t really have much capacity to add anyone.

No doubt management will be making calls and trying to come up with some creative solutions, but right now we just have to focus on the players we have.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Because our depth was way better last year imo

Way better? Not really, the bench last season after Josh got put into the starting 5 averaged 24.0ppg, which was 28th in the league, this year the bench averages 20ppg which is 30th. The bench last year collectively played 1 more mpg than this one, there's been a trend with us using the bench less by and less every season.


How little this bench plays is pretty much unprecedented in the last 20 years, and last year's bench played only slightly more. In the 5 years he's been here we've had 19th, 23rd, 27th 29th and 30th benches in terms of MPG. It's a feature.

I meant way better before Randle got injured. I mean even you said he didn’t start going crazy until Jan/Feb. what about before that? It shows if we actually had the capable personnel it likely wouldn’t be this way. This year right out of the gate we had no precious or shamet or mitch or whoever else. Now deuce. The bench has not just been bad but sporadic on availability. And it’s a glut of backup guards with no backup wing on the roster. Outside of the starting 5 it’s a poorly constructed roster with a depth problem. The depth problem leads to the minutes problem

The bench was 18th in MPG before Randle got hurt, he doesn't really use his benches like that. This is who he is, and it's an easily checked history.

Bulls bench MPG rank by year

2010-11 - 14th
2011-12 - 28th
2012-13 - 27th
2013-14 -27th

Wolves bench MPG rank by year

2016-17 - 30th
2017-18 - 30th
2018-19 - 26th



Come on man, so I'm supposed to believe virtually every single year he has a bad bench that he can't play? Or does he not trust anyone and leans on his starters.

[Butch718]

This was by design. Our best bench player is McBride who wasn’t in the regular rotation until last January. Nobody is calling Thibs to give the bench 100 minutes a game. All he needs to do is strategically rest starters throughout the game and go easy on them during the blowouts. There is no excuse what Thibs has been doing. At the very start I was like maybe he is trying to make sure the starters get used to playing with each other which is still a lame excuse but whatever. It became a cartoonishly stubborn way of doing things with the dude keeping them on the floor until the last minute of the games even when we have 20+ leads.

And how can we even judge the bench when they get absolutely no time? Kolek had 36 for the Gleague just a few days ago. How bad could he be not to get even 5 mpg consistently? Both Dadiet and Hukporti showed flashes. Nobody is saying they should get 30 minutes a game. All you have to do is give them a few meaningful minutes throughout the game and give the frigging starters some rest. That is all

I am looking at the bigger picture, not just tonight or the regular season.

Even if Thibs plays bench guys and rookies more minutes, this does not alleviate any issues come playoff time. You will need dependable guys coming off the bench. Playoff basketball is more intense and physical. This team needs more than Mitch and Deuce. They need another wing.

I think we all agree on that, but we don’t really have much capacity to add anyone.

No doubt management will be making calls and trying to come up with some creative solutions, but right now we just have to focus on the players we have.

And there lies the problem. We went all in with an elite starting lineup. They better hope the rookies turn into legit rotation players at some point because as currently constituted, they cannot win a chip with this bench. I realize that the window for this team is like 3-4 years, so maybe they can swing some key bench guys sooner rather than later.

[The KnicksFix]

I’m starting to realize, we’re never going to win a ring
This is the best team I’ve seen in 30 years, if we dont win in this window, it will be another 20-30 years

[Jalen Bluntson]

Brunson could have played better if he wasn't hobbled. OG could play better if he wasn't hobbled. KAT/Deuce could have played if they weren't injured. The bench could play better if they ever got a consistent role and minutes to form chemistry with the rest of the team. Which in turn would help prevent the players from getting banged up.

Imagine not blaming the person who makes all of this happen. Do lots of coke to work harder to make more money to buy lots of coke to work harder.

Thibs has reached his plateau. We will stagnate and after another year of wasted time he will be fired. It's all been done before everywhere he has ever coached.

we blaming thibs for deuce?

I don't blame Thibs for every injury. It's just the entire picture. It all snowballs and then he is forced to play the bench he refuses to play to begin with. Every year. It's also not necessarily the amount of mpg. It's the insane playing entire halves of games that also leads to injuries like Deuce and others have. So yeah, I blame Thibs for this ALWAYS happening.

Every year people act like it's a coincidence. They act like he's not running players into the ground. Every year this happens though. Believe what you will. I believe it's irresponsible to run the team the way he does. History keeps repeating itself. He keeps doing the same thing. I'm not down with it at all. We will limp through the season hoping to get players back yet again.

[Butch718]

I’m starting to realize, we’re never going to win a ring
This is the best team I’ve seen in 30 years, if we dont win in this window, it will be another 20-30 years

Good thing this isn’t a one year window then. All the current core players are entering their primes. This core(unless this team completely implodes) will be together for the next few years. Rose isn’t done. We’ll see just how savvy of a GM he is with the moves be makes to add some sort of depth to this team.

[The KnicksFix]

Brunson could have played better if he wasn't hobbled. OG could play better if he wasn't hobbled. KAT/Deuce could have played if they weren't injured. The bench could play better if they ever got a consistent role and minutes to form chemistry with the rest of the team. Which in turn would help prevent the players from getting banged up.

Imagine not blaming the person who makes all of this happen. Do lots of coke to work harder to make more money to buy lots of coke to work harder.

Thibs has reached his plateau. We will stagnate and after another year of wasted time he will be fired. It's all been done before everywhere he has ever coached.

we blaming thibs for deuce?

I don't blame Thibs for every injury. It's just the entire picture. It all snowballs and then he is forced to play the bench he refuses to play to begin with. Every year. It's also not necessarily the amount of mpg. It's the insane playing entire halves of games that also leads to injuries like Deuce and others have. So yeah, I blame Thibs for this ALWAYS happening.

Every year people act like it's a coincidence. They act like he's not running players into the ground. Every year this happens though. Believe what you will. I believe it's irresponsible to run the team the way he does. History keeps repeating itself. He keeps doing the same thing. I'm not down with it at all. We will limp through the season hoping to get players back yet again.

This is precisely it. This is what’s making me give up, we can’t ever just be like other teams, we have to have multiple guys out for games on end.

[NiceLikeChrist]

Keep making excuses for this coach thibs defense force. We’ll sit back, shake our heads, and laugh.

[louisorr]

I’m starting to realize, we’re never going to win a ring
This is the best team I’ve seen in 30 years, if we dont win in this window, it will be another 20-30 years

Good thing this isn’t a one year window then. All the current core players are entering their primes. This core(unless this team completely implodes) will be together for the next few years. Rose isn’t done. We’ll see just how savvy of a GM he is with the moves be makes to add some sort of depth to this team.

pretty sure the window is closed.
Silver + Wembanyama + Refs = no rings for Knicks

[Butch718]

I’m starting to realize, we’re never going to win a ring
This is the best team I’ve seen in 30 years, if we dont win in this window, it will be another 20-30 years

Good thing this isn’t a one year window then. All the current core players are entering their primes. This core(unless this team completely implodes) will be together for the next few years. Rose isn’t done. We’ll see just how savvy of a GM he is with the moves be makes to add some sort of depth to this team.

pretty sure the window is closed.
Silver + Wembanyama + Refs = no rings for Knicks

Wrong team. Wemby is never getting past OKC.

[NiceLikeChrist]

Thibs is a regularly season coach who coaches reg season like the playoffs to pull off decent regular season records. Relies on starters, doesn’t trust the bench or rookies, and plays guys heavy minutes.

He does this to hide the fact that he isn’t that good of a coach. He gets exposed in meaningful games and playoff matchups historically because he lacks adjustments and the basketball mind to adapt on the fly. He can only gameplan and strategize in the video room when there’s no action going on. If what he planned before the game falls apart then there’s no way of recovering.

I don’t know how people don’t see that. I’ve wanted thibs gone for over a year now once it became clear he hasn’t changed. Hell I wanted him gone after it took it 5 games against the hawks to bench elfrid Payton. He’s a stubborn old man and isn’t fit to coach a team built for modern basketball.

[robillionaire]

Way better? Not really, the bench last season after Josh got put into the starting 5 averaged 24.0ppg, which was 28th in the league, this year the bench averages 20ppg which is 30th. The bench last year collectively played 1 more mpg than this one, there's been a trend with us using the bench less by and less every season.


How little this bench plays is pretty much unprecedented in the last 20 years, and last year's bench played only slightly more. In the 5 years he's been here we've had 19th, 23rd, 27th 29th and 30th benches in terms of MPG. It's a feature.

I meant way better before Randle got injured. I mean even you said he didn’t start going crazy until Jan/Feb. what about before that? It shows if we actually had the capable personnel it likely wouldn’t be this way. This year right out of the gate we had no precious or shamet or mitch or whoever else. Now deuce. The bench has not just been bad but sporadic on availability. And it’s a glut of backup guards with no backup wing on the roster. Outside of the starting 5 it’s a poorly constructed roster with a depth problem. The depth problem leads to the minutes problem

The bench was 18th in MPG before Randle got hurt, he doesn't really use his benches like that. This is who he is, and it's an easily checked history.

18th isn’t that bad. That’s without even comparing the players coming off the bench then vs now. Hartenstein. McBride. Donte. Hart. Quickley(pre January) Grimes. Etc. it’s basically a dream team of talent compared to the current bench of castoffs and g leaguers. Even the corpses of Bojan and Burks are better than the current situation