ECF Playoff Game Thread: Knicks @ Pacers, Game 3, May 25th 8pm

[WaltFrazier]

I get this sense that OG doesnt really fw some of the players.

maybe just me lol

I think that's just his personality.

He's stoic, deadpan, stonefaced. That's his persona

[god shammgod]

when you decide to start mitch, what you're saying is kat's defense at the 5 is a problem. because they could have gone another way and started duece. is it the only problem ? no. but it's the problem they decided was most important to try to solve. which is coincidentally the same problem the timberwolves felt they had and they tried to solve it in the same exact way. but you're right, me and melo are just being dicks about this. lol

Mitch will help with the defense. It was always a reasonable argument that we needed more defense to offset KAT's weaknesses (in addition to Brunson's).

The offense has also been a big issue. Several players have been underperforming on that end of the court.

The being dicks about it is just how you focus on a single player, as if it were the only issue. Sure looks like scapegoating. Nobody's gonna mistake you guys for being KAT fans, so no need to worry.

the dicks thing is not directed to you. it's always respectful between us.

i think defense has been the biggest problem in this series. there are other problems of course. brunson is also a bad defender but he's in the right place more often than kat and you're certainly not benching him. the pacers are shooting 50/40 for this series so far. i'm sure if we looked up their percentages when kat is the 5 it's embarrassingly bad. to start both games they were shooting some astronomical perecentage. i think it was 74 percent in game 1. you can't win like this. not at the highest levels.

[WaltFrazier]

We also need to give Mikal and OG more breaks. Don’t wait for 8 minutes to make a sub.

That's been a roster issue all year, all the best bench guys are guards, Payne, Deuce, Shamet. We needed a 6'7+ forward all season to rotate through OG and Mikal. One who can shoot and defend.

If only PJ Tucker was 4 years younger

[WaltFrazier]

Starting Mitch keeps Kat from posting up low, but we aren't using Kat in the low post anyway

[Spree2Houston]

Low key true

Read on Twitter

[Guano]

The responsibility for our shortcomings falls on a lot of different shoulders, including KAT but also RG, Mikal, and Thibs. You're the ones turning a complex issue into a single-issue narrative. It's not any different than the Thibs or Randle bashers.

Oh, don't get it twisted, its not just kat's defense that's an issue. His stupid fouls, constant complaining, foul baiting that results in poor shots, weak screens... I could go on but the point is made. Its not a single issue with him.

bro...you really gonna make us look at Halifraud every time we see your name? did i do something to you to deserve that?

yes
Im sharing it since its burned into my mind

[NoDopeOnSundays]

me and melo are just being dicks

[K_ick_God]

What is this Pacers fan talking about?

Gp easy on chanel - he so busy defeflecting blame off kat these days he doesn't have time to even watch the games.

The responsibility for our shortcomings falls on a lot of different shoulders, including KAT but also RG, Mikal, and Thibs. You're the ones turning a complex issue into a single-issue narrative. It's not any different than the Thibs or Randle bashers.

I know what you’re saying but I think you are conflating bashing one player (or oversimplifying a complex subject) with finding a common denominator and correctly diagnosing the larger problem.

It’s still not all on Thibs that 0g can’t sustain his play into spring, true, but Tom gets a lot of blame for that too — because he refuses to reduce his minutes or play his bench. He’d rather get 30% of 0g at 35mpg than 80% of 0g at 20 minutes. That’s stupid.

The way G1 unfolded is such an indictment of his judgment. So yeah you can’t blame KAT and 0g’s basketball deficits on him of course but he has revealed that he is a huge part of the problem.

Maybe the Knicks don’t get here unless he overplays 0g. He did make the ECF. But if you miss details and lock in to a bad approach at all costs, you’re not doing the job.

Unless the job is to win games and flame out. That’s a philosophical question. I guess.

But if you look at all of it, of course that’s complex. It doesn’t mean you can’t see some patterns that trace back to the culprit(s). It’s like solving a crime. Always complex but there is still a clear answer on whodunnit.

[Strick]

Went back through the box scores of the games during these playoffs. I wanted to see how we faired when OG was making an impact offensively

When OG scores 20 or more points: 6-0
When OG scores less than 20 points: 2-6

Not saying it’s the magic recipe to win, but this team is significantly more dangerous when he’s providing a punch offensively

[KnicksGadfly]

Low key true

Read on Twitter

After seeing these dudes play, especially soft ass KAT, I’m ready to give Brunson the ball the whole game.

[Context]

Oh, don't get it twisted, its not just kat's defense that's an issue. His stupid fouls, constant complaining, foul baiting that results in poor shots, weak screens... I could go on but the point is made. Its not a single issue with him.

bro...you really gonna make us look at Halifraud every time we see your name? did i do something to you to deserve that?

yes
Im sharing it since its burned into my mind

[3toheadmelo]

Low key true

Read on Twitter

After seeing these dudes play, especially soft ass KAT, I’m ready to give Brunson the ball the whole game.

That’s why I be saying idgaf if we iso Brunson the whole time. It ain’t like them other dudes want the ball anyways.

[Guano]

me and melo are just being dicks

Its OG's fault

[Context]

Low key true

Read on Twitter

In the beginning of the season when we had the #1 offense- the ball MOVED. Brunson shares a responsibility in our failures as a team too.

[Chanel Bomber]

when you decide to start mitch, what you're saying is kat's defense at the 5 is a problem. because they could have gone another way and started duece. is it the only problem ? no. but it's the problem they decided was most important to try to solve. which is coincidentally the same problem the timberwolves felt they had and they tried to solve it in the same exact way. but you're right, me and melo are just being dicks about this. lol

Mitch will help with the defense. It was always a reasonable argument that we needed more defense to offset KAT's weaknesses (in addition to Brunson's).

The offense has also been a big issue. Several players have been underperforming on that end of the court.

The being dicks about it is just how you focus on a single player, as if it were the only issue. Sure looks like scapegoating. Nobody's gonna mistake you guys for being KAT fans, so no need to worry.

the dicks thing is not directed to you. it's always respectful between us.

i think defense been the biggest problem in this series. there are other problems of course. brunson is also a bad defender but he's in the right place more often than kat and you're certainly not benching him. the pacers are shooting 50/40 for this series so far. i'm sure if we looked up their percentages when kat is the 5 it's embarrassingly bad. to start both games they were shooting some astronomical perecentage. i think it was 74 percent in game 1. you can't win like this. not at the highest levels.

Right, right, and I had added some parentheses to that comment for that reason.

We're not benching Brunson of course, I agree. He's the worst defender on the team, but we need his shot creation, and he's the leader.

Something I fully agree with KnicksGod on is that we understate how much of a disaster the game 1 loss was. We should be 1-1 going to Indiana. We're not and I don't think this is entirely KAT's fault, although it is perfectly fair to pin the game 2 loss on his performance alone. I never pushed back against that.

We're down 0-2 not only because KAT cost us game 2. He was one of our best players in game 1 (despite Indiana's early scoring barrage) and other actors predominantly lost us that game.

The offseason discussions are fair. It is structurally challenging to build with both Brunson and KAT, so a case can be made that one needs to go, and we know Brunson is deservedly close to untouchable. But let me just point out that removing KAT is not some panacea that will cure the team's ills. Losing him via trade could very well lead to a decline in team performance depending on the return. He didn't make All-NBA by accident - his impact on offense is legitimate. His defense largely sucks, no question.

[TKKnicks1]

Not sure if it will be enough to just sub Mitch for Josh. You gonna need to do Deuce for Mikal as well. Do or die situation tonight. We are 0-14 historically when trailing 0-2 in a best of 7.

those type of stats never make sense since each team is different and generation,etc. btw mikal is doing well, not sure why swap him for mcbride.

Mitch/KAT/OG/Deuce/JB has the highest net rating of any lineup we have thrown out there this season. Just trying to increase our chances at success.

[8516knicks]

What is this Pacers fan talking about?

Gp easy on chanel - he so busy defeflecting blame off kat these days he doesn't have time to even watch the games.

The responsibility for our shortcomings falls on a lot of different shoulders, including KAT but also RG, Mikal, and Thibs. You're the ones turning a complex issue into a single-issue narrative. It's not any different than the Thibs or Randle bashers.

I know I had too much to drink last night when I actually spent 20 seconds trying to figure out who RG was before realizing it was proably auto-correct typing.

[KnicksGadfly]

Low key true

Read on Twitter

After seeing these dudes play, especially soft ass KAT, I’m ready to give Brunson the ball the whole game.

That’s why I be saying idgaf if we iso Brunson the whole time. It ain’t like them other dudes want the ball anyways.

These guys don’t even want to be on the free throw line with the game on the line.

[Chanel Bomber]

me and melo are just being dicks

Its OG's fault

Never said it was just OG.

Mikal is giving us RJ-level production on offense.
Thibs is playing his worst lineup the most minutes and completely mismanaged the end of game 1.
KAT is a sieve on defense that other teams can exploit.
Brunson made some awful decisions that cost us game 1. He's also getting hunted defensively even if he's our best player.

If you can't see how OG's shortcomings have also affected us, I don't know what to say. I guess KAT's the only problem, and we'd be witnessing a utopian Knicks championship run without him?

[K_ick_God]

Low key true

Read on Twitter

After seeing these dudes play, especially soft ass KAT, I’m ready to give Brunson the ball the whole game.

That’s why I be saying idgaf if we iso Brunson the whole time. It ain’t like them other dudes want the ball anyways.

Very sound way to manage the team there melo

I’m sure Red Auerbach would be like “Do whatever the hell you want because we only have one player anyway”

Yeah …that’s the makings of a great team for sure

Essentially — you are saying coaching is the art of quitting