ECF Playoff Game Thread: Pacers @ Knicks, Game 5, May 29th 8pm

[Besart19]

The 8 points in 9 seconds year we went down 3-1. Won game 5 at home, won game 6 on the road, Ewing missed the finger roll in Game 7.

the 17pts lead in the last 3 mins blown in game 1

[Besart19]

At this point, we gotta go one game at a time. Pacers closed their previous opponents in G5.

from the 3 games we need to win in a row this one is the toughest

[rajajackal]

[pwayknicks]

Start: Wright on Hali, Brunson on Nemhard, Mikal on Neismith, OG on Siakam, KAT on Turner. Switch everything except on Hali... fight through the screens and make him take contested shots. Pick him up full court with Wright.

Bench: Hart, Deuce, Shamet, Mitch with a short leash on Hart.

Sub KAT out after 4-5 mins of play then bring him back in the 2nd quarter when JB is sitting.

Run the offense through KAT in the low post, even when Brunson is out there. When KAT is on the bench, use Mikal and OG in the post against Hali and Nemhard as often as possible. When the doubles come, and they will, find the open shooters.

Pound them on the boards and pound them in the paint. Always get back on defense and slow them down by picking them up full court. Slow the game to a grind like in game 3.

Thibs will do none of these things and we will lose.

The pain will be over soon, folks.

It’s crazy that we know this is all they need to do, and yet the coach refuses. Kat will play 24 min straight in the second half, hart will play 40 min and wright will play 8-10 at the most. This coach


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[TKKnicks1]

Fun fact: Jalen Brunson has ONE **** ASSIST to Mr. Karl Anthony Towns in the Eastern Conference Finals, the dude whose averaging 30 PPG against them. 70 percent of the time when he gives it up it ends up in the hands of Josh or Bridges.

Get your **** head out of your ass, man....cut this Villanova ****.

Villanova? More like a supernova of crap in this series.

That 1 assist to Towns matches the eye test. Dude has blinders on.

It's absurd considering what an offensive talent Karl is. Just by driving and kicking it to him instead of OG and Bridges for threes would net Brunson a couple of more assists to him, but he doesn't use him at all.

Carmelo had tunnel vision, it was score or bust, but Jalen is freezing Karl out, because his boy Josh has no problem getting the rock, and it sucks to see, because I thought he was more cerebral than this.

Not saying they need to replace them, but I bet you anything Karl would show out and we would see some beautiful basketball with Kolek and Duece instead of these Villanova buddies. Only coaching can fix this because we are locked into this roster.

People want Giannis....lmaoooo....wtf is Brunson gonna do with him that Damien couldn't?

A solid coach with a legitimate offensive scheme would unlock not just this duo but the entire team. Right now KAT sets screens for Jalen for the sake of either freeing him up or having the defense switch. That's it. There's no pick and roll action. No pick and pop action. Nothing. Look at Jokic and Murray. Every screen is purposely done to create some kind of action. When you have two of your best players on a play together, it garners a lot of attention, defenses sometimes fall asleep which can lead to a lot of off ball movement with cuts and opportunities for everyone on the floor.

The vision by the FO when they created this roster was something completely different. There is no way they got KAT and Bridges so JB could continue ISO mode, hold the ball for 18 seconds and jack up 25 shots a game. I've said it a hundred times through the entire season. This team has no identity and no foundation to fall back on. The players are uber talented and it's their individual talents that are contributing to these wins.

[Iron Mantis]

Start: Wright on Hali, Brunson on Nemhard, Mikal on Neismith, OG on Siakam, KAT on Turner. Switch everything except on Hali... fight through the screens and make him take contested shots. Pick him up full court with Wright.

Bench: Hart, Deuce, Shamet, Mitch with a short leash on Hart.

Sub KAT out after 4-5 mins of play then bring him back in the 2nd quarter when JB is sitting.

Run the offense through KAT in the low post, even when Brunson is out there. When KAT is on the bench, use Mikal and OG in the post against Hali and Nemhard as often as possible. When the doubles come, and they will, find the open shooters.

Pound them on the boards and pound them in the paint. Always get back on defense and slow them down by picking them up full court. Slow the game to a grind like in game 3.

Thibs will do none of these things and we will lose.

The pain will be over soon, folks.

It’s crazy that we know this is all they need to do, and yet the coach refuses. Kat will play 24 min straight in the second half, hart will play 40 min and wright will play 8-10 at the most. This coach


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Thibs superfans will mockingly say "they think Wright or Shamet is the savior lol". But no one is saying that. A role player can thrive in their role depending on the matchup.

If we need a role player to leave it all on the floor fighting through screens, assertively defending Hali for 20 minutes, not turn the ball over, hustle, and hit a couple of spot up threes...then we have guys on the bench who can do that with this current matchup.

In another matchup, maybe they're not the ones. But in this particular matchup we have already seen that Wright and Shamet can be effective in such a role. Wright in particular needs to play more and needs more time on Hali.

Every playoffs and every series there's random bench role players who step up as unlikely heroes because of matchups. We have to try to find ours. Defensive intensity matters.

[pwayknicks]

Start: Wright on Hali, Brunson on Nemhard, Mikal on Neismith, OG on Siakam, KAT on Turner. Switch everything except on Hali... fight through the screens and make him take contested shots. Pick him up full court with Wright.

Bench: Hart, Deuce, Shamet, Mitch with a short leash on Hart.

Sub KAT out after 4-5 mins of play then bring him back in the 2nd quarter when JB is sitting.

Run the offense through KAT in the low post, even when Brunson is out there. When KAT is on the bench, use Mikal and OG in the post against Hali and Nemhard as often as possible. When the doubles come, and they will, find the open shooters.

Pound them on the boards and pound them in the paint. Always get back on defense and slow them down by picking them up full court. Slow the game to a grind like in game 3.

Thibs will do none of these things and we will lose.

The pain will be over soon, folks.

It’s crazy that we know this is all they need to do, and yet the coach refuses. Kat will play 24 min straight in the second half, hart will play 40 min and wright will play 8-10 at the most. This coach


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Thibs superfans will mockingly say "they think Wright or Shamet is the savior lol". But no one is saying that. A role player can thrive in their role depending on the matchup.

If we need a role player to leave it all on the floor fighting through screens, assertively defending Hali for 20 minutes, not turn the ball over, hustle, and hit a couple of spot up threes...then we have guys on the bench who can do that with this current matchup.

In another matchup, maybe they're not the ones. But in this particular matchup we have already seen that Wright and Shamet can be effective in such a role. Wright in particular needs to play more and needs more time on Hali.

Every playoffs and every series there's random bench role players who step up as unlikely heroes because of matchups. We have to try to find ours. Defensive intensity matters.

I don’t even care for Shamet , but I need to see more of wright and a wright deuce back court with og bridges and kat lineup needs to play serious minutes together as a second unit.


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[Red Vines]

Our only chance is playing guys who can run and get back on defense. If KAT is hobbled he may have to sit.

[FrozenEnvelope]

Win cause I cannot stomach these toothless hicks celebrating in MSG for the second year in a row.

[FrozenEnvelope]

Most here won't like it but if I were Thibs I'd go back to the original SL with Hart and bring Mitch off the bench. Go with what got you here plus Mitch has been much better coming off the bench and we need that boost. At the 5-6 minute mark of the 1st and 3rd, sub out JB for the rest of the quarter and bring him back to play the entire 2nd and 4th. You play KAT the entire 1st and 3rd and give him his break at the start of the 2nd and 4th and feature him hard without JB in there. Sub in Deuce, Wright and Shamet for Bridges, Hart and OG.

[LFGK]

At this point, we gotta go one game at a time. Pacers closed their previous opponents in G5.

from the 3 games we need to win in a row this one is the toughest

Yup, just find a way to win tonight and who knows what happens in a game 6

[sol537]

You’re gonna get 40 minutes each of the non-defense playing Nova trio and you’re gonna like it

[Spree2Houston]

Watch on YouTube

[sol537]

I’m starting to think Silver put the hit out on the Knicks with some of these refs calls… Dolan has been a pain in his azz and he’s getting some revenge of the Knicks in a calculated way that no one can really prove.

[TKKnicks1]

The loss of Mike Woodson and then Johnnie Bryant was just too much for this team. I truly believe they were the only two that could control Thibs. He's a maniac now off his meds just doing stupid silly stuff. Lock this man up!

[Jeff Van Gully]

I agree with almost everything...I just think these Knicks have a shot as long as there is a window and if they pull it off -if will be in spite of Thibs.

how is changing the starting lineup, benching cam payne, expanding the rotation to include shamet and wright, and giving precious spot minutes considered no defensive adjustments?

Because it took him until game 3 of the ECF, after losing 2 games at home and down 0-2 for him to give Shamet and Wright a chance.

that doesn't address my question. it just sets up the major tangent you wanted to go on. i'm sure he can speak for himself if he wants.

[MrDollarBills]

I don't know man. We have rarely looked good at all in these playoffs. The miraculous comebacks have been fun but, we have looked like trash the majority of these games. It's extremely disappointing but, not really surprising. We have been playing like this for months before we even made the playoffs.

It's called a plateau. I fear that this is the peak with this coach and this roster. It's been stagnant and predictable for a long stretch now. We are all seeing the same issues from regular season getting exposed in the playoffs. Blame whoever you want. Something has to change.

We have to win 3 more miracles to get to the finals. It doesn't look good. It hasn't looked good since game one in Detroit yet here we are.

Can the all grit no quit team make it through this series? Stay tuned folks.

The same stuff that we talked about since Christmas is still happening. It's worse now because Carlise has basically exposed us, but yes. We haven't looked good at all despite making it to the conference finals. Our cleanest game in this playoffs was Game 6 versus Boston who all but waved the white flag after embarrassing us without Tatum in Game 5.

Outside of that, every game has been a dog fight/slog where we have to grind out points while the opposing team somehow has no trouble scoring on us, or we lose in an embarrassing fashion. After watching OKC dispatch the Wolves, the disparity between an actual contender that plays modern, two way team oriented basketball and us couldn't ever be more glaring. We have a lot to fix if we want to 1) make it this far again and 2) win a championship.

Blame goes across the board. My feelings on Tom are clear, but I'm at the point now where we need to pull the plug on the Brunson/KAT duo.

These guys have been together since October and they have no chemistry, Brunson doesn't even attempt to look for Towns, and now the tape is out there that they are unplayable together defensively. These are serious issues. I don't know why or what happened, but I have a sinking feeling that when the season ends, a lot of dirt is going to come out and we're going to learn that this team has been dysfunctional behind the scenes. Something isn't right. Think back to some of the cryptic comments made by Josh. PJ Tucker saying that guys weren't communicating when he arrived, and Mikal openly joining the minutes police. We're gonna find out that these guys were probably not on the same page the entire season.

Either way, this team still has a ton of talent, so things can be improved, but I think we will have to use KAT and Mikal to bring in another piece that works better with Brunson, along with getting a coach that wasn't born before the Cuban missile crisis believes in ball movement and creating shots for the entire team instead of this late stage Derrick Rose Bulls offense that makes me want to gouge my eyeballs out.

Also, I think we need to see some leadership from Brunson. He has got to clean up his attention to detail defensively. Getting overwhelmed physically is one thing, but he makes a lot of mind numbing decisions on defense that leads to guys getting open shots. Whether its scheme or him just not getting it is irrelevant. He needs to be better.

Let's hope for the best tonight, but whatever happens, i still think we are in good shape as long as Leon isn't afraid to pivot from things that aren't working.

I'm not buying any pull the plug talk. This roster is not set up for success. The individual talents are not used in the most optimal way. The offense does not exist. The defense is outdated. The bench usage has long been a joke. That is all on the HC.

You don't accidentally win 50 games and make conference finals without talent. The talent has found ways to win with the least amount of coaching I have ever seen.

I am not against dramatic roster changes if it improves the team. Whatever team we put out there, it is the HC job to maximize the roster. Thibs does not do that. He overplays 7 guys from game one to his usual playoff exits. Nothing he does makes sense. This is the first change that needs to happen IMO. He is not the guy

I agree with you. I just have a bad feeling that behind the scenes there are issues beyond Thibs with this group. But that's just my own suspicion.

Karl and Jalen's lack of chemistry and defense are real concerns though. The defense especially.

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

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Greeny is 1000% right Folkssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[2010]

Read on Twitter

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Greeny is 1000% right Folkssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, Brunson’s lack of defense has dragged us down into a 3-1 hole.

[Jeff Van Gully]

how is changing the starting lineup, benching cam payne, expanding the rotation to include shamet and wright, and giving precious spot minutes considered no defensive adjustments?

Because it took him until game 3 of the ECF, after losing 2 games at home and down 0-2 for him to give Shamet and Wright a chance. Whereas he could have experimented the entire season with lineups and rotations, and give playing time to the rookies to develop familiarity, they played spot minutes and could never get in. He’s hasn’t a clue about bench play, and he never has. He has no clue about an offensive playbook, because “the game tells you what to do”. He has no idea about pin down screens, floppy, horns, back cuts, screen a screener. We have one action and offense, there are no multiple actions. At the end of the day, the coach is a huge, glaring problem and finally the Knick fan base has wisened up to his shtick.

They fell for it. Those substitutions were because of foul trouble, not because he found something or made adjustments, just like when bench players finally get a chance to show out because they're inserted into the rotation due to injuries.

Proof to me was these same guys that Jeff was talking about didn't get the same burn last game even though they were the only plus on the team besides Karl.

It blows my mind how players come and go in his rotations. One month they're playing every game, next thing you know they might as well have been traded. Wasn't Precious a big part of last years run..he filled in well...showed some game...and then this year he's completely gone from the rotation, didn't have any chance this year to develop further and get chemistry with the new players.....why....for the sake of his short rotation, that's all....it boggles my mind the way he runs and manages the season, dying to win every game in February like it's the playoffs.

Delon Wright is now getting minutes....well what the **** do you know. Didn't this kid get a nice run during the season, played well, and we were mad that he jumped Kolek in the rotation? And then what....disappeared. Now he needs him.

The Pacers have shown the regular season now means nothing....it's basically now a tuneup for the playoffs, to develop your team and chemistry, have structure and an identity to make a run in the playoffs.

These bull 2 and 3 seeds we achieved by playing short rotations and not developing anybody means nothing, especially considering we don't even win home games!!!

MDB- you giving this an and1 after sharing the truth is lowdown nasty work. i see you. i don't know what this poster knows, but i know you knew better.

Hahn is saying that he was told that Shamet and Wright were going to play in Game 3 but the foul situation forced his hand early.

Both guys were prepared. I tip my cap.

All we need is just defense and some ball handling help. I'm not asking for anything else.

Play KAT with Deuce. Brunson with Mitch.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2460746&p=118752202#p118752202

lastly, my question is not about the big thibs fight people want to have all day. it's a simple question about a simple point made. i have to read pages and pages of people saying whatever. i'm not here to tell any of you you're wrong. i really don't care about that. i'd probably post more if i did. but when folks just say ****, i'm gonna sometimes address it.