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Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT

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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#161 » by knicksfan974 » Mon Jun 2, 2025 12:43 am

KnixinSix wrote:
donkki wrote:I find the trade idea of KAT for JJJ and Bane interesting. This would give the Knicks a fresh, more uptempo look, and both JJJ and Bane can shoot the ball at a high clip. JJJ is not perfect but could work well with Brunson.


Bridges would need 2 go in that trade too....salaries need to match up and 3 team deals work a lot easier with teams over the 1st apron....

Memphis apparently wants to change it up. Bridges still has strong value and was misused here. KAT finished top 10 in mvp even with the warts and is not a great fit with Brunson(from a defensive standpoint)

It doesnt have to be a 3 way but this would be a dream scenario to get Divo back as well:

3 way trade with Memphis, Minny, and New York:

Knicks outgoing:
KAT (53.1)
Bridges (24.9)
McBride (4.3)
PJ Tuck (3.5)
Kolek (2.2)
Dadiet (2.8)
3 2nd round picks

Memphis outgoing:
JJJ (23.4)
Bane (36.7)
Clarke (12.5)
Konchar (6.1)

Minny outgoing:
Donte DiVencenzo (11.9)
Jaylen Clark (2.1)

‐------‐------------------------

Knicks incoming:
JJJ (23.4)
Bane (36.7)
Donte DiVencenzo (11.9)

Memphis incoming:
KAT (53.1)
Bridges (24.9)
Jaylen Clark (2.1)
2 NY 2nd round pick

Minny incoming:
McBride (4.3)
PJ Tuck (3.5)
Kolek (2.2)
Dadiet (2.8)
NY 2nd round pick


Rotation(minutes):
JJJ(20)/Mitch(22)/Huk(6)
OG(28)/JJJ(12)/Hart(8)
Hart(20)/Bane(15)/OG(5)/Shamet(8)
Bane(18)/Divo(25)/Shamet(5)
Brunson(33)/Divo(5)/Wright(10)


That is a team built around the defensive deficiencies of Brunson. One that can switch like crazy and defend. Bane is one of my favorite non descript stars of the league. High character, humble guy. Non diva. Can do a little of everything. A stronger player than Bridges and can fight through screens better. Can ball handle and take the ball up court too.


I like it, thanks!
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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#162 » by mhd » Mon Jun 2, 2025 1:07 am

KnixinSix wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:The timing of the articles on KAT (and Bridges) are very interesting .

These two could very possibly be shopped if Thibs stays and maybe even if he is replaced.


That article was probably ready for weeks.

Expect more dirt to pour out tomorrow


Absolutely possible. Let's see what they potentially could get for those 2 players. If Giannis is unlikely JJJ and/or Bane for KAT and/or Bridges is an extremely interesting fit with Brunson and a Thibodeau defense.

Memphis with Ja, KAT, Bridges is an interesting make over for that team. Especially if CAA JJJ threatens to leave (as he only has 1 year left on his deal). Bane is expensive for them.


Memphis traded a 1st round pick to the Wizards (which ended up being the 18th overall) at the deadline to get off of Marcus Smart's contract for expiring deals in order to pay JJJ the supermax. He's not going anywhere. Furthermore, why would Memphis trade for Bridges when he's a year away from FA and will demand a contract in excess of what Bane makes (and Bane is better than Bridges is)?
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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#163 » by KnixinSix » Mon Jun 2, 2025 1:22 am

mhd wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
That article was probably ready for weeks.

Expect more dirt to pour out tomorrow


Absolutely possible. Let's see what they potentially could get for those 2 players. If Giannis is unlikely JJJ and/or Bane for KAT and/or Bridges is an extremely interesting fit with Brunson and a Thibodeau defense.

Memphis with Ja, KAT, Bridges is an interesting make over for that team. Especially if CAA JJJ threatens to leave (as he only has 1 year left on his deal). Bane is expensive for them.


Memphis traded a 1st round pick to the Wizards (which ended up being the 18th overall) at the deadline to get off of Marcus Smart's contract for expiring deals in order to pay JJJ the supermax. He's not going anywhere. Furthermore, why would Memphis trade for Bridges when he's a year away from FA and will demand a contract in excess of what Bane makes (and Bane is better than Bridges is)?


JJJ didn't qualify for the supermax (look up articles on it) so other teams can bid pretty close for him. If he threatens to leave they are going to shop him. Getting KAT and Bridges for Bane and JJJ is a very strong offer for a team that also supposedly wants a makeover around Morant. Bridges is more ideal in the back court next to Morant.
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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#164 » by KnicksGadfly » Mon Jun 2, 2025 1:55 am

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
KnicksGadfly wrote:
Jalen Bluntson wrote:
Oh. So...accordion sauces tell me blah blah blah. Knicks for clicks. Get back to me when something of substance pops up. Sometimes smoke leads to fire. Sometimes it's just BS.

I can't imagine what they discuss after looking at film but, it never seems like it's anything I would try to correct. Not just KAT on defense.


Think it’s important to check the writer when it comes to these articles. Fred Katz is pretty trustworthy and connected. He doesn’t do the negativity schtick often.

But yea, actually the article is pretty balanced as whole but of course, some stuff gets emphasized. I’ll try and copy and paste when I have time.


1. katz was on KFS and expressed a disappointment in the timing of the release. as some have mentioned, he doesn't do hit pieces.

https://youtu.be/l_FpQlIiYwc?si=Ju2N4YluOL0AVDvh&t=131 - direct quote



2. @KG please don't copy and paste the article. we can't do that. excerpts at most. thanks.


I respect that. Some excerpts and things I'd like to point out:

First - the article title: "Inside Knicks’ imperfect yet historic season — and how they build off it"


Anyway, article author is Fred Katz and the tone of the article is cautiously optimistic. I respect Katz and think he's a good writer. Sometimes, I feel like he's way too optimistic with the Knicks.

New York organized multiple players-only meetings after embarrassing defeats throughout this postseason run, all with various degrees of intensity, per league sources. It’s not uncommon for teams to hold meetings without coaches, but it is rare for squads that went as far as the Knicks did to do it as often as they did during the playoffs, and for the kick-in-the-behind reasons they occasionally deemed necessary.

The 2025 Knicks dealt with disputes on the bench, criticism about their starters playing too many minutes, one of which came from the inside, and public comments about “sacrifice,” “egos,” and “agendas.” On one night, they would roar back from down 20 points to ruin the Celtics. On the next, they would mail in a potential series-clincher so obviously that it would require a kumbaya moment.


The article later brings up PJ Tucker's impact, but the question I'd ask is: where is Thibs in all this? This is pretty alarming and something we've noticed throughout this postseason. Yes, the players need to figure out, but part of a coach's job (and part of the reason why Doc Rivers keeps getting jobs, even though he sucks) is managing these relationships.

The play type that was supposed to storm the league, the Brunson-Towns pick-and-roll, turned less frequent and less successful as the season continued. From Jan. 1 until the end of the season, the starters got outscored by 1.4 points per 100 possessions. The group was a minus-33 heading into Game 6.

Opponents put their centers on Hart, who is not a 3-point shooter, and athletic wings on Towns, which bogged down the Knicks’ offense. On bad nights, the two All-Stars, Brunson and Towns, exacerbated each other’s worst defensive traits and didn’t enhance each other enough on offense, regressing as a duo during the second half of the season and into the playoffs. That was highlighted in the Eastern Conference finals, when Brunson assisted on just five Towns baskets. The Pacers, especially, targeted Brunson and Towns throughout the series, bringing whomever those two were manning into actions and attacking from there.


Yep...we had an issue with Brunson and Towns offensively and the defense wasn't there obviously. I guess we need to figure out what to do about that. Towns feels like he's not very good with setting screens and he doesn't take enough threes for my liking. Brunson seems to miss Towns a lot, and sometimes, I think Towns doesn't need to complete the handoff to Brunson. Use Brunson as a decoy and go. Grab the ball and iso sometimes, even with Brunson on the floor. This is a deep question for our team, not to mention the defense.

The Bridges experience was choppy. He shied away from physicality all season, clanked too many jumpers and vacillated as a point-of-attack stopper before rising defensively against Detroit and Boston. Two of the greatest clutch steals in franchise history occurred at the ends of Games 1 and 2 versus the Celtics. Both were from Bridges. He played a hand, and sometimes was even the main catalyst, in the Knicks’ three 20-point comebacks during the postseason. But he backed off from physical play once again during the Pacers series.

His reliance on midrange jumpers benefited him but wasn’t conducive to creating advantages for his teammates. In March, Bridges violated one of the no-nos in playing for Thibodeau, questioning the heavy minutes the starters played under the coach during a news conference with reporters. The comments rubbed the coaching staff the wrong way, sources said, and showed a disconnect.


Bridges...we made jokes about the next guy and he had some highs, but he had some lows too. That midrange shot actually was clutch at times in the postseason though, especially because our offense sucked at times and it bailed us out. But too often, we needed more from him. He is playing a huge ass amount of minutes and probably not with a traditional defensively strong center, though.

Some people in the organization wanted to use the 15th roster spot to sign a player who could contribute on the floor, while others wanted a veteran who would be OK with not playing and helping behind the scenes, per league sources. The latter group won out and Tucker signed with the team near the end of the regular season to be a veteran voice.


The article talks about a lack of clear communication...just wondering, shouldn't Thibs be setting this culture too? I don't think he's actually a big of a taskmaster as people say. He does like spamming players heavy minutes.

Publicly, Knicks players made veiled comments all season about poor communication causing their inconsistencies. Behind the scenes, they and coaches expressed frustration with Towns’ defensive habits — less concerned with his talent level and more with his process on that end. Too often, Towns executed incorrect coverages without communicating why he did it. After it became a theme, players worried Towns didn’t grasp the importance of the matter.


This is the quote in general that was magnified in the article. Honestly, in this league, how many teams are playing with a center that's defensively deficient? I feel like it's not a huge number. Off the top of my head: maybe Duren? Vucevic? Jokic if you want to quibble. Sengun...he's not athletic like that but I don't think he's bad.

We talk about how OG and Mikal and Hart are failing, but I feel like great defenses in this league are often built with strong centers as the backbone of those defenses, not with a goal of protecting both their PG and C and I wonder if a competent defensive center will allow those guys to play better defense. We often call out point guards when the ball isn't flowing well, but I feel that needs to extend on defense, where a great center often "quarterbacks" and communicates to have the team flow. Guess the question is whether we think KAT is a PF.

At the same time, we did see KAT and 4 strong defenders work in the postseason. Just not sure how sustainable that is too. It felt like Thibs' play was to just iso KAT from the three point line.
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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#165 » by Juco24 » Mon Jun 2, 2025 2:01 am

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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#166 » by sol537 » Mon Jun 2, 2025 2:08 am

It would have to be Durant, Dunn and a 1st for KAT due to the age difference.
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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#167 » by WargamesX » Mon Jun 2, 2025 2:13 am

Juco24 wrote:
Read on Twitter

I don’t know if this is a real reporter or just someone posting stories for clicks.

I legit think this might be AI.
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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#168 » by Jeff Van Gully » Mon Jun 2, 2025 2:14 am

first, thanks for that excellent demo of how to handle outside content.

KnicksGadfly wrote:The article later brings up PJ Tucker's impact, but the question I'd ask is: where is Thibs in all this? This is pretty alarming and something we've noticed throughout this postseason. Yes, the players need to figure out, but part of a coach's job (and part of the reason why Doc Rivers keeps getting jobs, even though he sucks) is managing these relationships.


who's to say he's not doing his part? he's definitely accountable for how it all comes together. but after a point, the players are the ones who have to do the things. there's always a players-only layer to teams. and coaching aside, they absolutely have to know how to communicate. they have to have their own relationships on the player level. that's why you have **** like captains and veteran leadership, kareem showing magic how to make his orange juice, etc.

there's a part of team sports that has nothing to do with the coach. it sounds like this is the part being discussed.
RIP magnumt

thanks for everything, thibs.

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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#169 » by Jeff Van Gully » Mon Jun 2, 2025 2:16 am

WargamesX wrote:
Juco24 wrote:
Read on Twitter

I don’t know if this is a real reporter or just someone posting stories for clicks.

I legit think this might be AI.


also, please keep this kind of thing in the trades and transactions thread.
RIP magnumt

thanks for everything, thibs.

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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#170 » by Juco24 » Mon Jun 2, 2025 2:21 am

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
Juco24 wrote:
Read on Twitter

I don’t know if this is a real reporter or just someone posting stories for clicks.

I legit think this might be AI.


also, please keep this kind of thing in the trades and transactions thread.


My bad
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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#171 » by nedleeds » Mon Jun 2, 2025 3:53 am

donkki wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
donkki wrote:
The Bucks might not have a choice if Giannis wants the Knicks. KAT with all his flaws is still All-NBA, that should be worth something for the Bucks, ay least a decent part of the trade package? Remember the Mavs had to settle for AD for Luka.

Sure, but besides the average Knick fans over inflated sense of franchise allure why in the world in your franchise picking scenario would he pick here?

We're not close to a title. We have no shooters to space for him. He could just pick Indy if they lose in the finals. Better roster, fits better with him, better coach. or Denver. Again your claim is the Bucks will just eat KATs deal and not look only for expirings and picks.


This team with all its flaws were two wins away from the Finals, in reality only one had they not thrown away G1 in once-in-a-lifetime fashion. So the team is very close. It should not be difficult to sell to Giannis the idea of him leading the Knicks to the championship and becoming an icon for the rest of your life in one of the greatest cities and biggest markets on Earth.

Yes the New York hero, we haven't won in 50+ years angle has really paid dividends with past free agents. Nobody actually still believes that self absorbed garbage do they?
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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#172 » by nedleeds » Mon Jun 2, 2025 3:55 am

sol537 wrote:It would have to be Durant, Dunn and a 1st for KAT due to the age difference.

I think Durant expires. We'd likely owe the pick. They're going to have to pay KAT $60+ at age 32.
Zenzibar wrote:Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff.
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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#173 » by HopelessKnick » Mon Jun 2, 2025 7:43 am

donkki wrote:I find the trade idea of KAT for JJJ and Bane interesting. This would give the Knicks a fresh, more uptempo look, and both JJJ and Bane can shoot the ball at a high clip. JJJ is not perfect but could work well with Brunson.


I sometimes wish we would put ourselves into the shoe of the other team as well. Why would Memphis do this?

I think if you looked around the league most teams would prefer JJJ over Towns straight up, let alone adding another terrific player to the deal. JJJ is a great defender that can put up 20points per night. He can guard any position. There is no way Memphis would even remotely consider that deal. Add to that that Towns has the worst contract out of the 3 as well and is the oldest.
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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#174 » by NoStatsGuy » Mon Jun 2, 2025 8:53 am

WargamesX wrote:
Juco24 wrote:
Read on Twitter

I don’t know if this is a real reporter or just someone posting stories for clicks.

I legit think this might be AI.


the guy looks incredible close to the baseball player Chris Davis. wrong spelling on the name on his twitter account. almost exclusively talks about cailtlin clark and the knicks, joined twitter in december '24.

yea, this is AI engagement bait account
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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#175 » by god shammgod » Mon Jun 2, 2025 10:11 am

But he couldn’t defend. The Indiana Pacers preyed on the glaring weakness all series. He was noticeably absent in transition. On the perimeter, he was hopeless. In the paint, he was punchless. In the six games, the 7-foot Towns registered one block. It’s the first time since blocks became an official stat in the 1970s that a center registered one block or fewer in the conference finals while playing at least 200 minutes in the series, per Stathead.com tracking. That can’t happen.


The fact is the Knicks just spent $152 million on a lineup that yielded the second-worst defense in the conference finals since NBA lineup tracking began in 2008. The lineup of Brunson, Bridges, Hart, Anunoby and Towns hemorrhaged 126.1 points per 100 possessions to the Pacers, the second-most points allowed per possession among the 63 lineups with at least 50 minutes played in the past 18 conference finals.


https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/article/knicks-trade-ideas-giannis-kd-a-mavs-deal-3-moves-that-can-get-new-york-over-the-top-190720651.html
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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#176 » by god shammgod » Mon Jun 2, 2025 10:13 am

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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#177 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Jun 2, 2025 10:57 am

Juco24 wrote:
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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#178 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Jun 2, 2025 10:59 am

NoStatsGuy wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
Juco24 wrote:
Read on Twitter

I don’t know if this is a real reporter or just someone posting stories for clicks.

I legit think this might be AI.


the guy looks incredible close to the baseball player Chris Davis. wrong spelling on the name on his twitter account. almost exclusively talks about cailtlin clark and the knicks, joined twitter in december '24.

yea, this is AI engagement bait account

He broke the Fox News before anyone
Read on Twitter
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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#179 » by NoStatsGuy » Mon Jun 2, 2025 11:07 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
NoStatsGuy wrote:
WargamesX wrote:I don’t know if this is a real reporter or just someone posting stories for clicks.

I legit think this might be AI.


the guy looks incredible close to the baseball player Chris Davis. wrong spelling on the name on his twitter account. almost exclusively talks about cailtlin clark and the knicks, joined twitter in december '24.

yea, this is AI engagement bait account

He broke the Fox News before anyone
Read on Twitter


well, he gotta fix his name on twitter, if hes legit :D

Or is this actually the proper spelling? because on all the official websites hes called Chris lmao
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Re: Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT 

Post#180 » by HopelessKnick » Mon Jun 2, 2025 11:51 am

god shammgod wrote:
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I agree with Colin Cowherd.....KD would be a good fit and he is the only player that could 100% replace KAT's offense instantly WHILE being much better defensively and having that 4th quarter clutchness and experience to help the Knicks take another step. Phoenix due to the Booker-KAT ties would be a good place for KAT as well. Also KD may be talked into taking a lesser extension at the age of 37 as well.

And the biggest reason: KD does not have to prove anything to anybody anymore....but one can't help but think that to 100% cement his legacy, a final shot at a ring in NY would be the ideal scenario. You win a title here, all criticism toward him vanishes in an instant. The Knicks can take the team mostly intact.

JB
Bridges
OG
KD
Mitch

with Hart, Deuce + free agency + Dadiet, Hukporti, Kolek improvement off the bench. I think, given Tatum's injury, that's a team that can make it to the finals and hang with anyone...if 1-2 good bench peaces emerge. And as for KD age concerns....he is going to be like Lebron...he is going to play at a high level till 4 so you retain that 3-4 year title window IMO. I would go for it.

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