Thibs needs to go

[matchman]

I have mentioned earlier in this thread that this playoff will decide whether I support Thibs to continue as our coach beyond this season. I think he has achieved his limit and beating the reigning champ Boston will probably be his biggest achievement of his coaching career. With that said if our objective is to win that shiny gold trophy, Leon Rose has to improve this criteria at coaching. Promoting Thibs to a non-coaching position and find his successor would be an idea.

[NYKat]

I’m as frustrated as anyone with Thibs habitual short rotation and minutes allocation and uncreative offense scheming. I also thought when Thibs was hired he would only be able to take us so far….

Having said that, Thibs has earned the right to get another shot coaching this team next year. Making the ECF indicates that Thibs has done nothing but improve every year he’s been here. So firing him after he took us further than anyone has in 20 years is just flat out stupid.

People just assume firing the coach automatically means we’ll be better, that’s a pretty arrogant and uncertain assumption.

For all of our handwringing about Thibs stubbornness, the fact of the matter is he HAS shown an ability to tbe flexible, over the course of his career, and make adjustments with his back against the wall (he did expand his rotation and change the starters in this series, after all).

Pacers are the better team, overall. So I know it’s cute to think that giving Deuce McBride 10 more minutes per game instead of Josh Hart would have made some big difference, I can’t blame Thibs substitution patterns on this series loss. I think one of the biggest factors in the Pacers success, is that their front office has allowed their team to grow organically without making any big knee jerk changes.

So even though the popular opinion is to fire and trade everyone when we lose, i think the worst thing the FO could do is make a panic change. The BIGGEST indicator of improvement in this league is continuity and chemistry and since the core of this team has barely been together 2 years, it’s absolutely imperative that the FO allows this team at least ONE more year to build on their experience and cohesiveness that they’ve developed together.

And that includes giving coach another year to prove that he can grow and adapt with this unit as well.

[gavran]

So I know it’s cute to think that giving Deuce McBride 10 more minutes per game instead of Josh Hart would have made some big difference

That's great, but 2 out of 3 losses, the Knicks didn't need a big difference, a small one could have this series be 2-2 or even 3-1 instead.

[KnicksGadfly]

I think the argument that we should keep Thibs because you could get a worse coach doesn’t hold water with me.

If a coach can’t get you to the ring, then you need to let him go. If you don’t have confidence in finding another coach who can get the team to take the next step, fire the FO and find one that can.

[8516knicks]

I’m as frustrated as anyone with Thibs habitual short rotation and minutes allocation and uncreative offense scheming. I also thought when Thibs was hired he would only be able to take us so far….

Having said that, Thibs has earned the right to get another shot coaching this team next year. Making the ECF indicates that Thibs has done nothing but improve every year he’s been here. So firing him after he took us further than anyone has in 20 years is just flat out stupid.

People just assume firing the coach automatically means we’ll be better, that’s a pretty arrogant and uncertain assumption.

For all of our handwringing about Thibs stubbornness, the fact of the matter is he HAS shown an ability to tbe flexible, over the course of his career, and make adjustments with his back against the wall (he did expand his rotation and change the starters in this series, after all).

Pacers are the better team, overall. So I know it’s cute to think that giving Deuce McBride 10 more minutes per game instead of Josh Hart would have made some big difference, I can’t blame Thibs substitution patterns on this series loss. I think one of the biggest factors in the Pacers success, is that their front office has allowed their team to grow organically without making any big knee jerk changes.

So even though the popular opinion is to fire and trade everyone when we lose, i think the worst thing the FO could do is make a panic change. The BIGGEST indicator of improvement in this league is continuity and chemistry and since the core of this team has barely been together 2 years, it’s absolutely imperative that the FO allows this team at least ONE more year to build on their experience and cohesiveness that they’ve developed together.

And that includes giving coach another year to prove that he can grow and adapt with this unit as well.

I'm torn. I agree with the previous posts of give him thanks and a gold watch AND also this one with give him one more chance because he's moved upward each year.

BUT BUT BUT -- We need changes NEXT YEAR - either in players OR/and coaching. We cannot have a repeat of this (basically the Altanta series wipeout even if on a higher level) total collapse again.

The mildew smell is foul.

[HopelessKnick]

If Thibs remains after the ECF loss then you have to imagine how toxic next season is going to be. I said it earlier and I'll say it again: Even if the FO is not 100% sold on firing Thibs but somewhere in the middle the prudent thing would be to make a coaching change. This has Denver/Memphis written all over it....Thibs will be the major theme in every botched play, bad game, bad loss. It will be a constant distraction all year long. Going into the season like that will already put the Knicks at a major disadvantage for whatever they are looking to achieve.

Like he himself said after the game: A fresh start, a reset is needed here.

[HopelessKnick]

I’m as frustrated as anyone with Thibs habitual short rotation and minutes allocation and uncreative offense scheming. I also thought when Thibs was hired he would only be able to take us so far….

Having said that, Thibs has earned the right to get another shot coaching this team next year. Making the ECF indicates that Thibs has done nothing but improve every year he’s been here. So firing him after he took us further than anyone has in 20 years is just flat out stupid.

People just assume firing the coach automatically means we’ll be better, that’s a pretty arrogant and uncertain assumption.

For all of our handwringing about Thibs stubbornness, the fact of the matter is he HAS shown an ability to tbe flexible, over the course of his career, and make adjustments with his back against the wall (he did expand his rotation and change the starters in this series, after all).

Pacers are the better team, overall. So I know it’s cute to think that giving Deuce McBride 10 more minutes per game instead of Josh Hart would have made some big difference, I can’t blame Thibs substitution patterns on this series loss. I think one of the biggest factors in the Pacers success, is that their front office has allowed their team to grow organically without making any big knee jerk changes.

So even though the popular opinion is to fire and trade everyone when we lose, i think the worst thing the FO could do is make a panic change. The BIGGEST indicator of improvement in this league is continuity and chemistry and since the core of this team has barely been together 2 years, it’s absolutely imperative that the FO allows this team at least ONE more year to build on their experience and cohesiveness that they’ve developed together.

And that includes giving coach another year to prove that he can grow and adapt with this unit as well.

Well this logic is just off. Of course when a team is leading the other team 3-1 it looks like that team is better. Yet you couldn't find almost anyone prior to the season that would have compared the two teams and came to the conclusion that the Pacers are better. Carlisle's coaching makes them look better for sure, but they are not better in terms of talent and everything.

[8516knicks]

I’m as frustrated as anyone with Thibs habitual short rotation and minutes allocation and uncreative offense scheming. I also thought when Thibs was hired he would only be able to take us so far….

Having said that, Thibs has earned the right to get another shot coaching this team next year. Making the ECF indicates that Thibs has done nothing but improve every year he’s been here. So firing him after he took us further than anyone has in 20 years is just flat out stupid.

People just assume firing the coach automatically means we’ll be better, that’s a pretty arrogant and uncertain assumption.

For all of our handwringing about Thibs stubbornness, the fact of the matter is he HAS shown an ability to tbe flexible, over the course of his career, and make adjustments with his back against the wall (he did expand his rotation and change the starters in this series, after all).

Pacers are the better team, overall. So I know it’s cute to think that giving Deuce McBride 10 more minutes per game instead of Josh Hart would have made some big difference, I can’t blame Thibs substitution patterns on this series loss. I think one of the biggest factors in the Pacers success, is that their front office has allowed their team to grow organically without making any big knee jerk changes.

So even though the popular opinion is to fire and trade everyone when we lose, i think the worst thing the FO could do is make a panic change. The BIGGEST indicator of improvement in this league is continuity and chemistry and since the core of this team has barely been together 2 years, it’s absolutely imperative that the FO allows this team at least ONE more year to build on their experience and cohesiveness that they’ve developed together.

And that includes giving coach another year to prove that he can grow and adapt with this unit as well.

Well this logic is just off. Of course when a team is leading the other team 3-1 it looks like that team is better. Yet you couldn't find almost anyone prior to the season that would have compared the two teams and came to the conclusion that the Pacers are better. Carlisle's coaching makes them look better for sure, but they are not better in terms of talent and everything.

We keep saying they are not better, but the SCOREBOARD keeps telling us the opposite.

[NYKat]

So I know it’s cute to think that giving Deuce McBride 10 more minutes per game instead of Josh Hart would have made some big difference

That's great, but 2 out of 3 losses, the Knicks didn't need a big difference, a small one could have this series be 2-2 or even 3-1 instead.

If you have to play a perfect game just to be even, it means you’re not good enough.

[NYKat]

I think the argument that we should keep Thibs because you could get a worse coach doesn’t hold water with me.

If a coach can’t get you to the ring, then you need to let him go. If you don’t have confidence in finding another coach who can get the team to take the next step, fire the FO and find one that can.

I think the argument that the coach can’t get you to the ring just because he hasn’t done so with a team that’s only been together for a year is equally faulty.

[HopelessKnick]

BTW the bottom line is this: I was right all along. The Boston series had me confused whether I was wrong in my assessment and had underestimated the team. But really the ECF proved without a single doubt that it was indeed Boston just missing shots which cost them game 1 and 2 and the series. It had little to do with what the Knicks were doing, Celtics were just missing everything.

Probably if the Knicks and Celtics replayed that series 10 times, the Celtics win 8-9 times. The impression I had during the regular season and Pistons series is where the Knicks are at. Basically a 50 win team that can make the second round and that's it.

Before anyone thinks the Pacers are that great force, just watch OKC destroy them in the finals. They won't win more than a single game. The Knicks are probably somewhere between 8-10 in terms of overall power rankings. ACTUALLY it is the anti-Thibs folks that are the more hopeful and optimistic guys because a coaching change could make a huge jump. If the Pro-Thibs folks are right and Thibs is maximizing the roster (and they are basically hoping only for some minor bench tweeks) then this team is doomed anyways. If the level of play we have seen durinh these close to 100 games is the roster being maximized.....then you will see us as a second round and out team most of the time. Not the worst place to be in but certainly not what everyone hoped for during the offseason after making these trades.

[NYKat]

I’m as frustrated as anyone with Thibs habitual short rotation and minutes allocation and uncreative offense scheming. I also thought when Thibs was hired he would only be able to take us so far….

Having said that, Thibs has earned the right to get another shot coaching this team next year. Making the ECF indicates that Thibs has done nothing but improve every year he’s been here. So firing him after he took us further than anyone has in 20 years is just flat out stupid.

People just assume firing the coach automatically means we’ll be better, that’s a pretty arrogant and uncertain assumption.

For all of our handwringing about Thibs stubbornness, the fact of the matter is he HAS shown an ability to tbe flexible, over the course of his career, and make adjustments with his back against the wall (he did expand his rotation and change the starters in this series, after all).

Pacers are the better team, overall. So I know it’s cute to think that giving Deuce McBride 10 more minutes per game instead of Josh Hart would have made some big difference, I can’t blame Thibs substitution patterns on this series loss. I think one of the biggest factors in the Pacers success, is that their front office has allowed their team to grow organically without making any big knee jerk changes.

So even though the popular opinion is to fire and trade everyone when we lose, i think the worst thing the FO could do is make a panic change. The BIGGEST indicator of improvement in this league is continuity and chemistry and since the core of this team has barely been together 2 years, it’s absolutely imperative that the FO allows this team at least ONE more year to build on their experience and cohesiveness that they’ve developed together.

And that includes giving coach another year to prove that he can grow and adapt with this unit as well.

Well this logic is just off. Of course when a team is leading the other team 3-1 it looks like that team is better. Yet you couldn't find almost anyone prior to the season that would have compared the two teams and came to the conclusion that the Pacers are better. Carlisle's coaching makes them look better for sure, but they are not better in terms of talent and everything.

They’ve made it to the ECF two years in a row, what other logic do you need?

[sol537]

If we go down 4-1 as many are expecting, Thibs is 80% gone. The front office isn't blind to the reality of his inadequacies.

[WaltFrazier]

I’m as frustrated as anyone with Thibs habitual short rotation and minutes allocation and uncreative offense scheming. I also thought when Thibs was hired he would only be able to take us so far….

Having said that, Thibs has earned the right to get another shot coaching this team next year. Making the ECF indicates that Thibs has done nothing but improve every year he’s been here. So firing him after he took us further than anyone has in 20 years is just flat out stupid.

People just assume firing the coach automatically means we’ll be better, that’s a pretty arrogant and uncertain assumption.

For all of our handwringing about Thibs stubbornness, the fact of the matter is he HAS shown an ability to tbe flexible, over the course of his career, and make adjustments with his back against the wall (he did expand his rotation and change the starters in this series, after all).

Pacers are the better team, overall. So I know it’s cute to think that giving Deuce McBride 10 more minutes per game instead of Josh Hart would have made some big difference, I can’t blame Thibs substitution patterns on this series loss. I think one of the biggest factors in the Pacers success, is that their front office has allowed their team to grow organically without making any big knee jerk changes.

So even though the popular opinion is to fire and trade everyone when we lose, i think the worst thing the FO could do is make a panic change. The BIGGEST indicator of improvement in this league is continuity and chemistry and since the core of this team has barely been together 2 years, it’s absolutely imperative that the FO allows this team at least ONE more year to build on their experience and cohesiveness that they’ve developed together.

And that includes giving coach another year to prove that he can grow and adapt with this unit as well.

That's the thing, he waits too long to make changes, when his back is against the wall. If he'd played more guys all season, rather than playing starters the most minutes in the league, the team would better be able to adjust to different combinations of lineups. And bench guys would be more ready.

I agree you don't trade everybody AND change coaches. But tweaking the roster and keeping Thibs will just mean another season of the same frustration. Things won't change.

[HopelessKnick]

I’m as frustrated as anyone with Thibs habitual short rotation and minutes allocation and uncreative offense scheming. I also thought when Thibs was hired he would only be able to take us so far….

Having said that, Thibs has earned the right to get another shot coaching this team next year. Making the ECF indicates that Thibs has done nothing but improve every year he’s been here. So firing him after he took us further than anyone has in 20 years is just flat out stupid.

People just assume firing the coach automatically means we’ll be better, that’s a pretty arrogant and uncertain assumption.

For all of our handwringing about Thibs stubbornness, the fact of the matter is he HAS shown an ability to tbe flexible, over the course of his career, and make adjustments with his back against the wall (he did expand his rotation and change the starters in this series, after all).

Pacers are the better team, overall. So I know it’s cute to think that giving Deuce McBride 10 more minutes per game instead of Josh Hart would have made some big difference, I can’t blame Thibs substitution patterns on this series loss. I think one of the biggest factors in the Pacers success, is that their front office has allowed their team to grow organically without making any big knee jerk changes.

So even though the popular opinion is to fire and trade everyone when we lose, i think the worst thing the FO could do is make a panic change. The BIGGEST indicator of improvement in this league is continuity and chemistry and since the core of this team has barely been together 2 years, it’s absolutely imperative that the FO allows this team at least ONE more year to build on their experience and cohesiveness that they’ve developed together.

And that includes giving coach another year to prove that he can grow and adapt with this unit as well.

Well this logic is just off. Of course when a team is leading the other team 3-1 it looks like that team is better. Yet you couldn't find almost anyone prior to the season that would have compared the two teams and came to the conclusion that the Pacers are better. Carlisle's coaching makes them look better for sure, but they are not better in terms of talent and everything.

They’ve made it to the ECF two years in a row, what other logic do you need?

It is about the comparison between the two teams. You switch coaches and you have the Knicks in the ECF twice in a row. Bickerstaff came close to beating Thibs with a wildly inferior team, a team consisting of Cade Cunningham + a bunch of journeyman role players. People were defending Thibs saying "the Pistons played so physical and tough" when the simple eye test had Bickerstaff simply outcoaching Thibs. We actually needed an epic missed whistle or otherwise we may have gone fishing in the first round. That was a team that was giving us the bisuness with Harris, Schroeder, Hardaway jr.

The Celtics performed a major historic shooting choke job. Missing like 60 wide open 3s in 2 games.

Now we are back to losing to an inferior team again while Thibs is being outcoached and demolished by Carlisle. Same as last season or in the Atlanta series or Miami series. The Pacers aren't the better team but they have the much better coach, thus they look like the better team. Of course if you have a coach who thinks it is a good idea to go into the playoffs with a bench consisting of Deuce and Mitch...then yeah...Carlisle will run circles around that....

[HopelessKnick]

I’m as frustrated as anyone with Thibs habitual short rotation and minutes allocation and uncreative offense scheming. I also thought when Thibs was hired he would only be able to take us so far….

Having said that, Thibs has earned the right to get another shot coaching this team next year. Making the ECF indicates that Thibs has done nothing but improve every year he’s been here. So firing him after he took us further than anyone has in 20 years is just flat out stupid.

People just assume firing the coach automatically means we’ll be better, that’s a pretty arrogant and uncertain assumption.

For all of our handwringing about Thibs stubbornness, the fact of the matter is he HAS shown an ability to tbe flexible, over the course of his career, and make adjustments with his back against the wall (he did expand his rotation and change the starters in this series, after all).

Pacers are the better team, overall. So I know it’s cute to think that giving Deuce McBride 10 more minutes per game instead of Josh Hart would have made some big difference, I can’t blame Thibs substitution patterns on this series loss. I think one of the biggest factors in the Pacers success, is that their front office has allowed their team to grow organically without making any big knee jerk changes.

So even though the popular opinion is to fire and trade everyone when we lose, i think the worst thing the FO could do is make a panic change. The BIGGEST indicator of improvement in this league is continuity and chemistry and since the core of this team has barely been together 2 years, it’s absolutely imperative that the FO allows this team at least ONE more year to build on their experience and cohesiveness that they’ve developed together.

And that includes giving coach another year to prove that he can grow and adapt with this unit as well.

That's the thing, he waits too long to make changes, when his back is against the wall. If he'd played more guys all season, rather than playing starters the most minutes in the league, the team would better be able to adjust to different combinations of lineups. And bench guys would be more ready.

I agree you don't trade everybody AND change coaches. But tweaking the roster and keeping Thibs will just mean another season of the same frustration. Things won't change.

Going into the playoffs with the strategic plan of a 7 man rotation essentially with Deuce and Mitch----I mean this type of nonsense is not going to win ultimately. Period. And it really shouldn't win either. It's the wrong approach. Totally wrong approach. Even more so considering that with Achiuwa, Wright, Shamet we had enough guys able to fulfill the role of an 8th to 9th man.

When during the final 4 months of the season the starting line-up was declining in every measurable statistic category, Thibs made zero changes. And that despite the Knicks being kinda locked in into that 3rd seed all along. His strategic vision for success is running a 7 man rotation all season long. Obviously he has been rejected for 3 decades of coaching now and never made it to the finals as a head coach but it does not lead to him questioning his approach. He will just continue with his losing approach.

[treachery]

I’ve never actually hated someone more than Thibs
From going back to the original starting 5, STILL playing hart + Mikal while deuce + shamet + delon just rot on the bench
I HATE YOU THIBS
You wasted so much of a year, a season, a chance

You refused to try anything new throughout the year, you refuse to develop players. You have no offensive scheme, if the first option isn’t there, you have no second or third option. So you ISO Brunson every game, game after game. You won’t even let the absolute engine of a player in KAT have a go. You have no clue of defensive schemes in this modern NBA.

Thibs you are the human remnant of a POS, I hope the day we lose, you are fired. You are a waste. A waste of a coach, a bum, unmarried, stupid and senile. Please leave the only team I love more than anything, you are a POS.

Feel the same way.

Loathe this bum.

This was our best chance in 25 years to get to the Finals.

Instead we're dealt the same repetitive, unimaginative slop from this senile old loser.

And certain podcasters wax poetic about this bum like we're lucky to have him.

Absolutely criminal mismanagement.

Hope we get blown out at MSG just to be rid of this dumb schlub and his worn out schtick.

[Enzo954]

I’m as frustrated as anyone with Thibs habitual short rotation and minutes allocation and uncreative offense scheming. I also thought when Thibs was hired he would only be able to take us so far….

Having said that, Thibs has earned the right to get another shot coaching this team next year. Making the ECF indicates that Thibs has done nothing but improve every year he’s been here. So firing him after he took us further than anyone has in 20 years is just flat out stupid.

People just assume firing the coach automatically means we’ll be better, that’s a pretty arrogant and uncertain assumption.

For all of our handwringing about Thibs stubbornness, the fact of the matter is he HAS shown an ability to tbe flexible, over the course of his career, and make adjustments with his back against the wall (he did expand his rotation and change the starters in this series, after all).

Pacers are the better team, overall. So I know it’s cute to think that giving Deuce McBride 10 more minutes per game instead of Josh Hart would have made some big difference, I can’t blame Thibs substitution patterns on this series loss. I think one of the biggest factors in the Pacers success, is that their front office has allowed their team to grow organically without making any big knee jerk changes.

So even though the popular opinion is to fire and trade everyone when we lose, i think the worst thing the FO could do is make a panic change. The BIGGEST indicator of improvement in this league is continuity and chemistry and since the core of this team has barely been together 2 years, it’s absolutely imperative that the FO allows this team at least ONE more year to build on their experience and cohesiveness that they’ve developed together.

And that includes giving coach another year to prove that he can grow and adapt with this unit as well.

How much is Thibs paying you?

[Red Vines]

Now is the time, so many quality candidates available at once. I don't have a preference right now but we almost hired Frank Vogel before, he got a ring with the Lakers, and it would be interesting given his history with Indy.

[gavran]

So I know it’s cute to think that giving Deuce McBride 10 more minutes per game instead of Josh Hart would have made some big difference

That's great, but 2 out of 3 losses, the Knicks didn't need a big difference, a small one could have this series be 2-2 or even 3-1 instead.

If you have to play a perfect game just to be even, it means you’re not good enough.

OK? That was the Pacers the last 3 minutes of game 1. Not sure what are you trying to say here, do you think the Knicks played close to perfection, or...?