Knicks sign Hardaway

[levendis]

I could understand THjr over Holiday because THjr is a professional scorer. I can understand going into the year with KP and WHG as your #1 and #2 options that might be light on offense. So I get that THjr was probably the highest ceiling offensive option out there. But that means you absolutely can't bring back Melo.

Melo, KP, THjr, and WHG is way to many options we really need to let KP take over the offense.

If Holiday had more attempts, I think he'd be able to produce similar results. Different mentality so maybe you're right and that plays a part, but production wise over 30-35 minutes I think Justin could have had a similar impact (with better defense).

I still take this over Waiters, though.

apparently we're in the minority and waiters is a steal

Dion shot better than him and can actually put the ball on the floor and create off the dribble. 4/52 for Dion >>>> 4/71 for THJ. I wouldn't want either on my team though.

[mpharris36]

KT did you see THjr advance defensive metrics? He has a -3.5 FG% against when defending an opponent. That actually somewhat impresses me. You obviously have to look at the eye test (I can say I didn't watch much of him last year). But the stats suggest he became a much better defender.

If this is the case...I could start coming around on this.

I'M TELLING Y'ALL TIM IS NOT THE SAME PLAYER HE'S A BEAST IN ATLANTA!

I live here I saw him at least 50 times in the last 2 years. Y'all probably just saw his stinkers in the playoffs.

if this is true I will be happy. But the only way to let him shine along with KP and WHG. Is to move Melo. 100% have to or there offensive development will be stunted.

[moocow007]

KT did you see THjr advance defensive metrics? He has a -3.5 FG% against when defending an opponent. That actually somewhat impresses me. You obviously have to look at the eye test (I can say I didn't watch much of him last year). But the stats suggest he became a much better defender.

If this is the case...I could start coming around on this.

The way I see it, we don't really have a choice so...LET'S GO TIMMY!!!!

[mpharris36]

KT did you see THjr advance defensive metrics? He has a -3.5 FG% against when defending an opponent. That actually somewhat impresses me. You obviously have to look at the eye test (I can say I didn't watch much of him last year). But the stats suggest he became a much better defender.

If this is the case...I could start coming around on this.

The way I see it, we don't really have a choice so...LET'S GO TIMMY!!!!

I was about to walk down to MSG last night and fight someone...so needless to say I have calm down...however I'm worried about sham

[moocow007]

KT did you see THjr advance defensive metrics? He has a -3.5 FG% against when defending an opponent. That actually somewhat impresses me. You obviously have to look at the eye test (I can say I didn't watch much of him last year). But the stats suggest he became a much better defender.

If this is the case...I could start coming around on this.

The way I see it, we don't really have a choice so...LET'S GO TIMMY!!!!

I was about to walk down to MSG last night and fight someone...so needless to say I have calm down...however I'm worried about sham

He's outside MSG right now still waiting for Dolan to step outside.

[El Poochio]

Read on Twitter

After he was traded

It's like a horror franchise…:lol:

Lol

[DOT]

The PJax defenders are having a field day, but let's compare his big signing last summer to the one Mills just made as they got the same contract:

Noah played 29 games the season before
THJ played 79 games the season before

Noah lost his starting job on a non playoff team
THJ gained the starting job on a playoff team

Noah was coming off a year of career low scoring and shooting
THJ was coming off a year of career high scoring and shooting

Noah was coming in to start over a young prospect
THJ is coming in to start over an older player

Noah was 31 when he signed
THJ was 25 when he signed

I'm not defending the signing. I would of stopped at 14 per, IF I was even interested in signing THJ, which I wasn't. But using this to boost PJax is ridiculous.

This is not a soapbox

I'ma agree with you on this one, the f*ck these dudes talking about?
This ain't nowhere near as bad as f*cking Noah, 12-15 mil is starter money, and THJ is starter quality, so yeah we overpaid him but not nearly as much as we did Noah, AND HE'S 25 NOT 31, WITH NO INJURY HISTORY
Dudes be on some ish

[3toheadmelo]

breaking news from sham :"ill allow it"

[Greenie]

Greenie watched Timmy.
Dude was flat our balling.

[BodyCount]

Isn't Tim slightly responsible for us being in a position to draft KP? He heroballed us a few wins when we were trying to tank, which hurt the %s of getting the #1 pick and/or staying in the top 3. If we had lost their games, and kept the #3 pick was Phil still going to take Porzingis or take someone he saw as the consensus guy, Jahlil Okafor?

It was between us and Minnesota as I remember, then timmy **** us and we ended second last and Minnesota ended last, they, as last got the first pick, we as second ended with 4th pick.

So if not for Timmy we would have gotten Karl anthony towns instead of porzingis.

[Billy Goat]

You let the same exact player in Holiday walk for nothing and give Hardaway 71 million plus the poison pill. Sounds like the Knicks.

to be fair, and I am the farthest thing from a THjr fan, but THjr has a ton more offensive talent than Justin Holiday.

the holiday faithful is mind numbing. you would think he's on the cusp of an all-star season with the bulls next season.

He's not. He's just a much less expensive version of Tim Hardaway

[Tron Carter]

KT did you see THjr advance defensive metrics? He has a -3.5 FG% against when defending an opponent. That actually somewhat impresses me. You obviously have to look at the eye test (I can say I didn't watch much of him last year). But the stats suggest he became a much better defender.

If this is the case...I could start coming around on this.

ONLY if we trade Lee and Melo too.

he's a good fit with frank. forget Strasbourg this is how frank wants to play:

Watch on YouTube

he needs horses to get out on the break with him.

[Tron Carter]

to be fair, and I am the farthest thing from a THjr fan, but THjr has a ton more offensive talent than Justin Holiday.

the holiday faithful is mind numbing. you would think he's on the cusp of an all-star season with the bulls next season.

He's not. He's just a much less expensive version of Tim Hardaway

who is much worse offensively. much worse.

[ctorres]

It shouldn't even be about his value in the moment. 18ish million is an overpay for a guy that will prob average 18/4/3, but it's only slightly considering the absurd deals being thrown around

Depending on shooting percentages, 18 million night not be an overpay for 18/4/3 at the shooting guard position.

If he shoots 44% from the field, 37% from the 3pt line, and right around 80% from the stripe, he is earning his money.

I will keep throwing Evan Fournier's name around ad naseum. I believe Fournier shot season 43% from the field and 36% from three this past season.

Here are the my special demands for THjr! Because THjr makes $0.75 million more per season than Evan Fournier, I demand...

- THjr must shoot no less than 0.75% better from the field, from three, and from the stripe than Fournier.

- THjr's collective rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks per game must be 0.75 more than Fournier's total per game. If Fournier averages 3.0 rpg, 2.0 apg, 1.0 spg and 0.3 bpg, then THjr can average 3.3 rpg, 2.2 apg, 1.2 spg, and 0.35 bpg totally satisfy the +0.75 average per game requirement.

- THjr cannot commit more than 75% as many turnovers as Fournier over the course of a season.

- Not only is THjr not allowed to miss more regular season games than Fournier, THjr at a minimum must play FOUR more games over the course of a season than Fournier. If both play 82 games, then THjr is expected to have either made the playoffs over Fournier, earned a higher seed, or advance an additional round.

- If Fournier's team has a .500 record, THjr's team can have no less than a .508 record.

I could go forever, lol

[OrangeAndFlu]

Things to consider:
Waiters wanted to be in Miami(no income tax btw so 52 there is not 52 here)

Tim is on the upswing getting better and was starting for a playoff team

Even if he doesn't live up to the contract IF Atlanta doesn't match how good can tim hardaway really make the knicks ?

Knicks aren't gonna be contenders in 4 years anyway GSW has this thing under lock and key right now and for minimum 4 more yrs

To the "save our cap space for stars" people NO STAR FREE AGENTS WANT TO COME TO THE KNICKS NONE ZERO
NOT LEBRON, NOT KLAY NOT ANYBODY

Knicks are trying to repair their image and the culture a bunch of young guys that'll grow together and forget about the Phil regime is a good way to do that

[mpharris36]

KT did you see THjr advance defensive metrics? He has a -3.5 FG% against when defending an opponent. That actually somewhat impresses me. You obviously have to look at the eye test (I can say I didn't watch much of him last year). But the stats suggest he became a much better defender.

If this is the case...I could start coming around on this.

ONLY if we trade Lee and Melo too.

he's a good fit with frank. forget Strasbourg this is how frank wants to play:

Watch on YouTube

he needs horses to get out on the break with him.

I agree my decision on this move is on hold. Lee and Melo need to be traded.

[moocow007]

As far as Noah and Hardaway debate goes...

I'm not a fan of this signing but the only way Hardaway's contract be in the Noah category is if Hardaway misses most of the next 2 seasons. And even then that's only viewing it in hindsight. Noah's contract was clearly nutty from the start given that he had already shown he's breaking down and was coming off 2 increasingly brutal seasons and on the wrong side of 30 (and I'm a Noah fan).

I mean James Johnson just got $60 million over 4 from the Heat and that's even nuttier than the Hardaway deal (and I'm actually a fan of Bloodsport).

[Knicksfan20]

The PJax defenders are having a field day, but let's compare his big signing last summer to the one Mills just made as they got the same contract:

Noah played 29 games the season before
THJ played 79 games the season before

Noah lost his starting job on a non playoff team
THJ gained the starting job on a playoff team

Noah was coming off a year of career low scoring and shooting
THJ was coming off a year of career high scoring and shooting

Noah was coming in to start over a young prospect
THJ is coming in to start over an older player

Noah was 31 when he signed
THJ was 25 when he signed

I'm not defending the signing. I would of stopped at 14 per, IF I was even interested in signing THJ, which I wasn't. But using this to boost PJax is ridiculous.

This is not a soapbox

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Hes not though. I don't recall many Knick fans being happy with the Deal Noah received last offseason. They wanted the player, but the numbers seemed way off. Sort of the same situation here...except Timmy doesn't have the injury concerns and is only 25.

[Greenie]

If Holiday had more attempts, I think he'd be able to produce similar results. Different mentality so maybe you're right and that plays a part, but production wise over 30-35 minutes I think Justin could have had a similar impact (with better defense).

I still take this over Waiters, though.

apparently we're in the minority and waiters is a steal

Dion shot better than him and can actually put the ball on the floor and create off the dribble. 4/52 for Dion >>>> 4/71 for THJ. I wouldn't want either on my team though.

You didn't watch Timmy this past year.
Timmy has been working on those handles. He can create a bit off dribble now.

[HerSports85]

4/63 seem fair. I like having Timmy back but we did slightly overpay


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