2020 Presidential Election Thread: IT'S THE FINAL (vote) COUNTDOWN! [update pg 61: Joe Biden elected 46th POTUS]

[Im Coming Home]

Newest copium republican talking point: "ThE MeDia dOeSNt DeCidE thE elEctIOn!!>@#!#"

As if anyone's saying that talking point, also the misinformation going around that the Bush v Gore situation they're claiming they called it for Gore, when what really happened is they called it from Bush, Gore took it as the truth and conceded until he found out how close Florida actually was.

What they fail to realize is that this isn't going to come down to one state, Biden is leading in so many of the swing states that even if Trump actually pulls off flipping one of them back, Biden still wins.

Its honestly funny to see all the copium going around from the MAGA idiots the last day and a half, anything to help them feel better I guess.

If the shoe was on the other foot, they’d be making fun of us for being little snowflakes while they partied like it’s 1999. They can bitch and moan all they want. It’s over. We just need those two Georgia Senate seats.

What they fail to realize is that the left was upset about 2016 because a lot of people feared for their families lives and what laws and policies would end up effecting their families lives because of the hatred Trump was spewing.

But now the MAGA people are upset because they can't be outwardly racist and in your face anymore. Big different in my opinion.

[HotelVitale]

Because people don’t vote on policies, they vote on partisanship and emotions. This election should make that clear. Florida voting for minimum wage is a very good example. Joe Biden promised to raise the minimum wage but Republicans wisely chose not to nationalize it because they know it’s a state and local issue. Congress can only pass laws to set Federal minimum wage. Florida voters didn’t connect minimum wage (FYI a socialist policy) to the Democratic Party so they don’t take into account that the same party they voted for President is the same one who’s going to block that minimum increase despite it being the will of the voters. It’s the exact same thing with restoring voting rights to ex felons. The people voted, Republicans blocked it and they’ll continue to vote for Republicans in the next cycle. Partisanship and emotion will always trump policy. That’s the new normal of politics. Democrats need to learn and adapt

Democrats generally have a hard time doing the sort of straight up lying and double-talking that Republicans do, in part because the main Republican ideological node or selling point is staying on top (and having nothing change) while the main Democrat one is banding together and helping those in need etc. Dem politicians still lie or evade all the time but it's still sort of shameful to do that while lots of republicans would say that the other side is so evil--so intent on killing babies, taking your freedom, submitting you to sharia etc--that stopping them at all costs is fine. (Sidenote: what's interesting is that so many republican groups are so so lazy about organizing despite being so shameless about the need to win, it's a weird thing where they'll bring guns to intimidate and go to any length to hold onto their seats, but they also won't just spend a couple afternoons per month talking to people. The point is to be reactive, not to persuade.) I'd also add this is more prevalent in the non-cities, in the suburban and edge counties that are more mixed politically.

For example, I work in criminal justice reform and there's a very large chunk of people--often those most impacted by the cj system--who seem completely unaware that Republicans are vicious anti-reformers, like their legislators still spend most of their time pushing mandatory minimums and trotting out white victims of crime and talking about evil predators, etc. These same Republicans often have no problem dropping into a conference or election stop and saying 'we all know the cj system is a mess and needs changing, we have the answers!' and just counting on enough constituents having no idea about the extremely obvious everyday reality that runs contrary to that.

[Clyde_Style]

Biden did win because enough Republicans voted for him while still voting for the GOP down the rest of the ticket

That take seems debunked by my state of PA, which is as good a bellwether as anywhere for how swing states and independent/flip voters decide elections. Our Democrat governor, who's not particularly popular and is very far from charismatic, won last year by 17+ points, which suggests that there's not nearly as many committed Rep voters in the state as you're implying. More significantly, this year the Attorney General and Auditor General races were also on the ballot (both statewide races): the Democrat for AG performed significantly better than Biden--he won by about 4 pts--while the Auditor Dem candidate lost by 3 points. Biden of course won by half a point at best, so there's a lot more going on here than traditional GOP voters giving a one-off vote to Biden. There's also nothing special about the AG candidates, they were both pretty straightforward moderate Dem and respectable but maga-compatible Rep, sort of the local version of Biden and Trump.

There were GOP voters this time who stayed at home in 2016. The high turnout ended up showing a pretty high level of support for the GOP from registered Republicans. I would assume you agree Biden needed the minority of defectors to vote for him in order to win.

Of course, the Indy vote was even more critical

And one thing that I think may be harder to calibrate is people who changed their registration from Republican to Democrat or Indy. I don't know the numbers on that. But there was a small drain from the GOP that would no longer be considered a defection on election day as they had already left the party.

[Clyde_Style]

Newest copium republican talking point: "ThE MeDia dOeSNt DeCidE thE elEctIOn!!>@#!#"

As if anyone's saying that talking point, also the misinformation going around that the Bush v Gore situation they're claiming they called it for Gore, when what really happened is they called it from Bush, Gore took it as the truth and conceded until he found out how close Florida actually was.

What they fail to realize is that this isn't going to come down to one state, Biden is leading in so many of the swing states that even if Trump actually pulls off flipping one of them back, Biden still wins.

Its honestly funny to see all the copium going around from the MAGA idiots the last day and a half, anything to help them feel better I guess.

If the shoe was on the other foot, they’d be making fun of us for being little snowflakes while they partied like it’s 1999. They can bitch and moan all they want. It’s over. We just need those two Georgia Senate seats.

I honestly hope the whole Trump losing situation shows that the MAGA idiots truly don't care about the rest of the republican party and causes their voter turnout to be trash. That or they'll be distracted by the Trump losing but trying to hold on in the courts situation to care about Georgia.

I think it boils down to if Trump has the ability to go to Georgia and campaign for the party he's in or not, part of me says no, he's going to be too busy sulking and playing golf for the next 3 months or so to campaign for senate seats that won't effect him since he won't be president anymore. I hope I'm right.

I already know the Democrats are making a push for those 2 seats as you can see Stacey Abrams and others(AOC, etc) already setting their sites on getting even more voters registered for the run off. I hope it'll be enough, it'll be nice not to have a obstructionist Senate and allow democrats to actually get **** down without having to water it down or pander to the Republicans like they had to with the ACA which is why the ACA has turned out to not be as great as it could have been.

There are more than one kind of MAGA.

There are the rednecks who fly their confederate flags, love guns and just want to tailgate party for their racist uncle. Like Kurt Cobain said:

He's the one
Who likes all our pretty songs
And he likes to sing along
And he likes to shoot his gun
But he knows not what it means
Knows not what it means

many of them don't know jack about policy

and then there are the MAGA who are like BallSac who eat the disinfo they are fed and try to pass it off as reasonable justifications for their support of anti-immigration, racial profiling, building walls, etc. They try to be policy wonks, love to troll and gaslight and act like they know more than anyone else.

It will be interesting to see how much of it was Trump and how much of his base stays involved politically after this

[Im Coming Home]

Oh I see, now I know why they've been saying the media doesn't call the election

They're just parroting Trump as usual..

Read on Twitter

Also, this moron doesn't understand that theres around 30 million more people in the US since Obama ran, AND not factoring in the '**** Donald Trump, anyone but him' crowd that knew they needed to turn up in massive numbers to ensure Trump **** off.

Read on Twitter

[HotelVitale]

Biden did win because enough Republicans voted for him while still voting for the GOP down the rest of the ticket

That take seems debunked by my state of PA, which is as good a bellwether as anywhere for how swing states and independent/flip voters decide elections. Our Democrat governor, who's not particularly popular and is very far from charismatic, won last year by 17+ points, which suggests that there's not nearly as many committed Rep voters in the state as you're implying. More significantly, this year the Attorney General and Auditor General races were also on the ballot (both statewide races): the Democrat for AG performed significantly better than Biden--he won by about 4 pts--while the Auditor Dem candidate lost by 3 points. Biden of course won by half a point at best, so there's a lot more going on here than traditional GOP voters giving a one-off vote to Biden. There's also nothing special about the AG candidates, they were both pretty straightforward moderate Dem and respectable but maga-compatible Rep, sort of the local version of Biden and Trump.

There were GOP voters this time who stayed at home in 2016. The high turnout ended up showing a pretty high level of support for the GOP from registered Republicans. I would assume you agree Biden needed the minority of defectors to vote for him in order to win. Of course, the Indy vote was even more critical And one thing that I think may be harder to calibrate is people who changed their registration from Republican to Democrat or Indy. I don't know the numbers on that. But there was a small drain from the GOP that would no longer be considered a defection on election day as they had already left the party.

Not sure you got what I was going for there--our statewide candidates this year showed one Democrat winning by a fairly large margin (4 pts) over a Republican opponent and another losing by a slightly smaller margin, that alone discounts the ideas that a significant amount of Republicans voted for Biden but not for other Dems. There could be many reasons for that outcome but it means that the decision-making process for people who weren't hard partisan was complicated and individual, and probably had nearly as many figurations as there were voters in that set.

Also remember PA hasn't voted Republican in a presidential election since the 1980s besides trump, so Biden didn't need 'defectors' so much as a return to normal patterns. What we saw was sort of a kicked-up version of those usual patterns, with both sides getting a lot more votes than in 2016 but with Biden pulling out the victory by the usual 1-2 pt swing in PA. I think it's a lot safer to assume this than what you put out: the whole Trump phenomenon turned out a lot of voters (some independent, more lazy republicans) who otherwise wouldn't have voted, while the anti-trump sentiment plus a lot of extra $ coming in from national groups helped up the numbers of people voting for Biden who don't usually vote. (Also I don't think it's likely that 300k+ voters--like 3-4% of PA's total registrered voters--switched from Dem to Rep in the last year, or that there wasn't also a converse flip of Dem to Rep, especially among older white blue collar voters.)

[Clyde_Style]

Oh I see, now I know why they've been saying the media doesn't call the election

They're just parroting Trump as usual..

Read on Twitter

Also, this moron doesn't understand that theres around 30 million more people in the US since Obama ran, AND not factoring in the '**** Donald Trump, anyone but him' crowd that knew they needed to turn up in massive numbers to ensure Trump **** off.

Read on Twitter

I predict he will be off this in a week or two and will shift his attention to WTF can he do now to minimize the chitstorm waiting him when he leaves the WH

If he persists this way into January, it is a sure sign he has given up on his own life and is just mailing it in until the hammer comes down

One thing about this guy's pathology is pretty clear. He will seek adulation of his fans at any cost because his ultimate desire is to be worshipped. His short attention span and quest for the next dopamine hit means he is capable of doing the wrong thing for his own preservation just because he needs his fix. So it also would not surprise me to see him playing the cheating angle and doling out MAGA slop to the bitter end. He is that damn needy

[Clyde_Style]

That take seems debunked by my state of PA, which is as good a bellwether as anywhere for how swing states and independent/flip voters decide elections. Our Democrat governor, who's not particularly popular and is very far from charismatic, won last year by 17+ points, which suggests that there's not nearly as many committed Rep voters in the state as you're implying. More significantly, this year the Attorney General and Auditor General races were also on the ballot (both statewide races): the Democrat for AG performed significantly better than Biden--he won by about 4 pts--while the Auditor Dem candidate lost by 3 points. Biden of course won by half a point at best, so there's a lot more going on here than traditional GOP voters giving a one-off vote to Biden. There's also nothing special about the AG candidates, they were both pretty straightforward moderate Dem and respectable but maga-compatible Rep, sort of the local version of Biden and Trump.

There were GOP voters this time who stayed at home in 2016. The high turnout ended up showing a pretty high level of support for the GOP from registered Republicans. I would assume you agree Biden needed the minority of defectors to vote for him in order to win. Of course, the Indy vote was even more critical And one thing that I think may be harder to calibrate is people who changed their registration from Republican to Democrat or Indy. I don't know the numbers on that. But there was a small drain from the GOP that would no longer be considered a defection on election day as they had already left the party.

Not sure you got what I was going for there--our statewide candidates this year showed one Democrat winning by a fairly large margin (4 pts) over a Republican opponent and another losing by a slightly smaller margin, that alone discounts the ideas that a significant amount of Republicans voted for Biden but not for other Dems. There could be many reasons for that but it means that the decision-making process was complicated, and that there was much more sway in the middle.

Also remember PA hasn't voted Republican in a presidential election since the 1980s besides trump, so Biden didn't need 'defectors' so much as a return to normal patterns. What we saw was sort of a kicked-up version of those usual patterns, with both sides getting a lot more votes than in 2016 but with Biden pulling out the victory by the usual 1-2 pt swing in PA. I think it's a lot safer to assume this than what you put out: the whole Trump phenomenon turned out a lot of voters (some independent, more lazy republicans) who otherwise wouldn't have voted, while the anti-trump sentiment plus a lot of extra $ coming in from national groups helped up the numbers of people voting for Biden who don't usually vote. (Also I don't think it's likely that 300k+ voters--like 3-4% of PA's total registrered voters--switched from Dem to Rep in the last year, or that there wasn't also a converse flip of Dem to Rep, especially among older white blue collar voters.)

I accept the thesis that Trump generated voters who may go back into the mothballs after this election. And hatred of Trump can also account for some of Biden's support, for sure.

[HarthorneWingo]

If the shoe was on the other foot, they’d be making fun of us for being little snowflakes while they partied like it’s 1999. They can bitch and moan all they want. It’s over. We just need those two Georgia Senate seats.

I honestly hope the whole Trump losing situation shows that the MAGA idiots truly don't care about the rest of the republican party and causes their voter turnout to be trash. That or they'll be distracted by the Trump losing but trying to hold on in the courts situation to care about Georgia.

I think it boils down to if Trump has the ability to go to Georgia and campaign for the party he's in or not, part of me says no, he's going to be too busy sulking and playing golf for the next 3 months or so to campaign for senate seats that won't effect him since he won't be president anymore. I hope I'm right.

I already know the Democrats are making a push for those 2 seats as you can see Stacey Abrams and others(AOC, etc) already setting their sites on getting even more voters registered for the run off. I hope it'll be enough, it'll be nice not to have a obstructionist Senate and allow democrats to actually get **** down without having to water it down or pander to the Republicans like they had to with the ACA which is why the ACA has turned out to not be as great as it could have been.

There are more than one kind of MAGA.

There are the rednecks who fly their confederate flags, love guns and just want to tailgate party for their racist uncle. Like Kurt Cobain said:

He's the one
Who likes all our pretty songs
And he likes to sing along
And he likes to shoot his gun
But he knows not what it means
Knows not what it means

many of them don't know jack about policy

and then there are the MAGA who are like BallSac who eat the disinfo they are fed and try to pass it off as reasonable justifications for their support of anti-immigration, racial profiling, building walls, etc. They try to be policy wonks, love to troll and gaslight and act like they know more than anyone else.

It will be interesting to see how much of it was Trump and how much of his base stays involved politically after this

I'm hope that we can ride the crest of this momentum wave we're on right now and that the enthusiasm on the part of the republican base in Georgia will peter out by the time of the run-offs.

[Oscirus]

Who is this brit who says the election was stolen? Well britt pollster not piers dumb ass

[HarthorneWingo]

Who is this brit who says the election was stolen? Well britt pollster not piers dumb ass

Stuart Varney? Ha,who cares? Did you see the celebration they had in London last night? They did it up with fireworks and dancing in the streets.

[Im Coming Home]

Who is this brit who says the election was stolen? Well britt pollster not piers dumb ass

Not sure what Britt pollster he's talking about but, the logic is already stupid, its apparently based on the fact that Biden got more votes than Obama. They're acting like thats in a vacuum, not factoring in the 'f**k Trump' factor or the fact that 30 million more people in this country since Obama was elected. Or the fact that mail-in voting and early voting was available thus allowing for more people to vote. If this pollster was 'the best' he surely would factor that in if he's not a moron.

[Clyde_Style]

Because people don’t vote on policies, they vote on partisanship and emotions. This election should make that clear. Florida voting for minimum wage is a very good example. Joe Biden promised to raise the minimum wage but Republicans wisely chose not to nationalize it because they know it’s a state and local issue. Congress can only pass laws to set Federal minimum wage. Florida voters didn’t connect minimum wage (FYI a socialist policy) to the Democratic Party so they don’t take into account that the same party they voted for President is the same one who’s going to block that minimum increase despite it being the will of the voters. It’s the exact same thing with restoring voting rights to ex felons. The people voted, Republicans blocked it and they’ll continue to vote for Republicans in the next cycle. Partisanship and emotion will always trump policy. That’s the new normal of politics. Democrats need to learn and adapt

Democrats generally have a hard time doing the sort of straight up lying and double-talking that Republicans do, in part because the main Republican ideological node or selling point is staying on top (and having nothing change) while the main Democrat one is banding together and helping those in need etc. Dem politicians still lie or evade all the time but it's still sort of shameful to do that while lots of republicans would say that the other side is so evil--so intent on killing babies, taking your freedom, submitting you to sharia etc--that stopping them at all costs is fine. (Sidenote: what's interesting is that so many republican groups are so so lazy about organizing despite being so shameless about the need to win, it's a weird thing where they'll bring guns to intimidate and go to any length to hold onto their seats, but they also won't just spend a couple afternoons per month talking to people. The point is to be reactive, not to persuade.) I'd also add this is more prevalent in the non-cities, in the suburban and edge counties that are more mixed politically.

For example, I work in criminal justice reform and there's a very large chunk of people--often those most impacted by the cj system--who seem completely unaware that Republicans are vicious anti-reformers, like their legislators still spend most of their time pushing mandatory minimums and trotting out white victims of crime and talking about evil predators, etc. These same Republicans often have no problem dropping into a conference or election stop and saying 'we all know the cj system is a mess and needs changing, we have the answers!' and just counting on enough constituents having no idea about the extremely obvious everyday reality that runs contrary to that.

I saw firsthand how a MAGA person would get indignant over disrespecting the cops. BLM to them would very quickly mutate into some kind of anti-police tirade. This guy was texting me videos of blacks attacking whites as if that negated the issue of police brutality. It quickly blurred into one howl of disgust at the protest movement. This same person lectured me about lacking pride in my white culture. I said IDGAF if a non-white minority ruled America and that probably was the end of our relationship. In general, their view of the justice system is that it is perfect as it is and that criticizing police conduct was defamatory and delusional.

[HarthorneWingo]

Oh I see, now I know why they've been saying the media doesn't call the election

They're just parroting Trump as usual..

Read on Twitter

Also, this moron doesn't understand that theres around 30 million more people in the US since Obama ran, AND not factoring in the '**** Donald Trump, anyone but him' crowd that knew they needed to turn up in massive numbers to ensure Trump **** off.

Read on Twitter

Little Donald uses the term "lame stream media" like 10 year old having a temper tantrum. It's not difficult to imaging the type of brat he was (and still is).

[HarthorneWingo]

Oh I see, now I know why they've been saying the media doesn't call the election

They're just parroting Trump as usual..

Read on Twitter

Also, this moron doesn't understand that theres around 30 million more people in the US since Obama ran, AND not factoring in the '**** Donald Trump, anyone but him' crowd that knew they needed to turn up in massive numbers to ensure Trump **** off.

Read on Twitter

30 million more in the last 12 years?

[HotelVitale]

Not sure you got what I was going for there--our statewide candidates this year showed one Democrat winning by a fairly large margin (4 pts) over a Republican opponent and another losing by a slightly smaller margin, that alone discounts the ideas that a significant amount of Republicans voted for Biden but not for other Dems. There could be many reasons for that but it means that the decision-making process was complicated, and that there was much more sway in the middle. Also remember PA hasn't voted Republican in a presidential election since the 1980s besides trump, so Biden didn't need 'defectors' so much as a return to normal patterns. What we saw was sort of a kicked-up version of those usual patterns, with both sides getting a lot more votes than in 2016 but with Biden pulling out the victory by the usual 1-2 pt swing in PA. I think it's a lot safer to assume this than what you put out: the whole Trump phenomenon turned out a lot of voters (some independent, more lazy republicans) who otherwise wouldn't have voted, while the anti-trump sentiment plus a lot of extra $ coming in from national groups helped up the numbers of people voting for Biden who don't usually vote. (Also I don't think it's likely that 300k+ voters--like 3-4% of PA's total registrered voters--switched from Dem to Rep in the last year, or that there wasn't also a converse flip of Dem to Rep, especially among older white blue collar voters.)

I accept the thesis that Trump generated voters who may go back into the mothballs after this election. And hatred of Trump can also account for some of Biden's support, for sure.

Right, and I think we're all trying to figure out now what that means. E.g. does the trump thing become a permanent part of policy or die with him, or are there now two factions in the party (esp prevalent the more deep into rural areas you go)? For my work, a big question is how much they'll need to play the tough law-and-order empty rhetoric and translate that into policy; pre-trump republicans had sort of gone away from that but still kept it close by, but he really drew the lines clearly around cops-military-business as good guys and everyone else as bad.

PA is like a bizarro version of NY state, in that Philly gets top billing but isn't big enough to dominate the state legislature and voting patterns. The NYC area gets to set the tone and the rest of the state has to react, while the opposite is true down here (even when you factor Pittsburgh in). The rural/deep suburban areas call the shots in this weird state.

[Im Coming Home]

Oh I see, now I know why they've been saying the media doesn't call the election

They're just parroting Trump as usual..

Read on Twitter

Also, this moron doesn't understand that theres around 30 million more people in the US since Obama ran, AND not factoring in the '**** Donald Trump, anyone but him' crowd that knew they needed to turn up in massive numbers to ensure Trump **** off.

Read on Twitter

30 million more in the last 12 years?

Just about, 2010 had a population of 308,745,538, 2020 has one of 332,639,000

So based off that, you can assume 2008 was a little less than 2010 and get around 30 million.

[Clyde_Style]

Oh I see, now I know why they've been saying the media doesn't call the election

They're just parroting Trump as usual..

Read on Twitter

Also, this moron doesn't understand that theres around 30 million more people in the US since Obama ran, AND not factoring in the '**** Donald Trump, anyone but him' crowd that knew they needed to turn up in massive numbers to ensure Trump **** off.

Read on Twitter

30 million more in the last 12 years?

Shhhhhhhh!!!!

You're going to give the MAGAs wall nightmares

[Clyde_Style]

30M more little Wingos?

crikey!

[Clyde_Style]

Not sure you got what I was going for there--our statewide candidates this year showed one Democrat winning by a fairly large margin (4 pts) over a Republican opponent and another losing by a slightly smaller margin, that alone discounts the ideas that a significant amount of Republicans voted for Biden but not for other Dems. There could be many reasons for that but it means that the decision-making process was complicated, and that there was much more sway in the middle. Also remember PA hasn't voted Republican in a presidential election since the 1980s besides trump, so Biden didn't need 'defectors' so much as a return to normal patterns. What we saw was sort of a kicked-up version of those usual patterns, with both sides getting a lot more votes than in 2016 but with Biden pulling out the victory by the usual 1-2 pt swing in PA. I think it's a lot safer to assume this than what you put out: the whole Trump phenomenon turned out a lot of voters (some independent, more lazy republicans) who otherwise wouldn't have voted, while the anti-trump sentiment plus a lot of extra $ coming in from national groups helped up the numbers of people voting for Biden who don't usually vote. (Also I don't think it's likely that 300k+ voters--like 3-4% of PA's total registrered voters--switched from Dem to Rep in the last year, or that there wasn't also a converse flip of Dem to Rep, especially among older white blue collar voters.)

I accept the thesis that Trump generated voters who may go back into the mothballs after this election. And hatred of Trump can also account for some of Biden's support, for sure.

Right, and I think we're all trying to figure out now what that means. E.g. does the trump thing become a permanent part of policy or die with him, or are there now two factions in the party (esp prevalent the more deep into rural areas you go)? For my work, a big question is how much they'll need to play the tough law-and-order empty rhetoric and translate that into policy; pre-trump republicans had sort of gone away from that but still kept it close by, but he really drew the lines clearly around cops-military-business as good guys and everyone else as bad.

PA is like a bizarro version of NY state, in that Philly gets top billing but isn't big enough to dominate the state legislature and voting patterns. The NYC area gets to set the tone and the rest of the state has to react, while the opposite is true down here (even when you factor Pittsburgh in). The rural/deep suburban areas call the shots in this weird state.

PA sure has their share of rednecks

We're all wondering what the GOP will morph into now. Some in the party are doing a happy dance that Trump is gone, but they are still obviously going to be concerned with how to retain his supporters or to at least not piss them off. On a national level, I see a guy like Mitt Romney licking his chops, but I'm not so sure it is going to go the way he wants it to.

I suspect the protect your guns and ammo meme may get doubled down on as a continued vote getter

Truth is the GOP is better at identifying single issue hot buttons and segmenting their message to pull in those voters

Does that mean anti-abortion, gun rights and anti-immigration will continue to stitch together party participation from single issue voters? I don't know the answer to that, but since many people are fine with leaving Roe vs. Wade intact and want more gun controls it is possible the GOP will need a new approach, not just the Democrats