2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

[RHODEY]

Hi weaknesses kind of remind me of Frank. He might be the better shooter, but his speed, low athletic ability, sketchy court awareness when it comes to some of his passing, and lateral quickness screams Frank. just a better version of him.

Thought the exact same thing. Although he's craftier than Frank he's still raw and has a high bust potential. We absolutely can't afford to come out this draft with another Frank Ntilikina.

It’s interesting you would be so high on Haliburton then because from what I can tell his frame and game seems a lot closer to Frank’s than anybody else. I don’t see the Hayes comparison with Frank other than that they’re both French and raw af

I don't see the Haliburton comparison with Frank other than their physical dimensions and defensive propensity. I like Frank and he's made big strides but l don't think it's going to take Haliburton 3 seasons to not play hesitant. And while Hayes is near the top of my PG list I will acknowledge that Hali has some of the highest bball iq and intelligence of anyone in the draft. His passing and shooting are way beyond Frank's. And that's no knock on Frank.

[robillionaire]

Thought the exact same thing. Although he's craftier than Frank he's still raw and has a high bust potential. We absolutely can't afford to come out this draft with another Frank Ntilikina.

It’s interesting you would be so high on Haliburton then because from what I can tell his frame and game seems a lot closer to Frank’s than anybody else. I don’t see the Hayes comparison with Frank other than that they’re both French and raw af

I don't see the Haliburton comparison with Frank other than their physical dimensions and defensive propensity. I like Frank and he's made big strides but l don't think it's going to take Haliburton 3 seasons to not play hesitant. And while Hayes is near the top of my PG list I will acknowledge that Hali has some of the highest bball iq and intelligence of anyone in the draft. His passing and shooting are way beyond Frank's. And that's no knock on Frank.

Haliburton at 20 is currently a year younger than frank at 21 but frank has been in the nba 3 years already on the most dysfunctional team in the league. So yes Haliburton should be lot more NBA ready and confident than frank was in 2017

Ok we acknowledge their similar physical dimensions (although Haliburton again lacks a few inches of height and wingspan compared to frank, both are super thin) and defensive ability.

Haliburton looks like a great passer especially pick and roll but his shortcoming in the NBA will be the same as frank, and it’s that he doesn’t have the handle the craftiness or the speed and strength to get to the rim like the great playmakers can do. He reminds me more of Frank on the French National team, a bus driver 3 and D PG who can bring it up and make the right reads but isn’t really a dynamic scorer or playmaker. In fact if you compare haliburton per 36 mins stats to Frank in FIBA last summer they are pretty similar. Frank 14.8 4.8 4.6, Haliburton 14.9 5.8 6.3, Haliburton averaged 2 free throws per 36 and frank averaged 2.1 per 36. That should set off some alarm bells

I think that type of player is better suited for an established team who needs an NBA ready game manager type player but a team in need of star power with extreme lack of talent might need to take a swing for the fences. Plus we have that mold of player already... frank

[3toheadmelo]

Who won the McDonalds’ MVP during Zion’s time?

Nassir Little?

Yep. He was also the Jordan Brand Classic MVP that year too. Then he went to UNC and was underwhelming... just like Cole Anthony.

That was a really good comeback, at least it would have been if you weren’t singing the praises of Nassir Little all last year, now u want to throw him under the bus just to take a shot at cole

[RHODEY]

It’s interesting you would be so high on Haliburton then because from what I can tell his frame and game seems a lot closer to Frank’s than anybody else. I don’t see the Hayes comparison with Frank other than that they’re both French and raw af

I don't see the Haliburton comparison with Frank other than their physical dimensions and defensive propensity. I like Frank and he's made big strides but l don't think it's going to take Haliburton 3 seasons to not play hesitant. And while Hayes is near the top of my PG list I will acknowledge that Hali has some of the highest bball iq and intelligence of anyone in the draft. His passing and shooting are way beyond Frank's. And that's no knock on Frank.

Haliburton at 20 is currently a year younger than frank at 21 but frank has been in the nba 3 years already on the most dysfunctional team in the league. So yes Haliburton should be lot more NBA ready and confident than frank was in 2017

Ok we acknowledge their similar physical dimensions (although Haliburton again lacks a few inches of height and wingspan compared to frank, both are super thin) and defensive ability.

Haliburton looks like a great passer especially pick and roll but his shortcoming in the NBA will be the same as frank, and it’s that he doesn’t have the handle the craftiness or the speed and strength to get to the rim like the great playmakers can do. He reminds me more of Frank on the French National team, a bus driver 3 and D PG who can bring it up and make the right reads but isn’t really a dynamic scorer or playmaker. In fact if you compare haliburton per 36 mins stats to Frank in FIBA last summer they are pretty similar

I think that type of player is better suited for an established team who needs an NBA ready game manager type player but a team in need of star power with extreme lack of talent might need to take a swing for the fences. Plus we have that mold of player already... frank

Frank is listed @ 6'4" while Haliburton is 6'5" Franks Wing span is 7'1" while Hali's is 7.0 So they are nearly identical physically. His handle is good actually, not sure why people think its lacking :

Watch on YouTube

Actually the more I look at Haliburton the more I like him. He's got an "IT" factor to him.

[robillionaire]

I don't see the Haliburton comparison with Frank other than their physical dimensions and defensive propensity. I like Frank and he's made big strides but l don't think it's going to take Haliburton 3 seasons to not play hesitant. And while Hayes is near the top of my PG list I will acknowledge that Hali has some of the highest bball iq and intelligence of anyone in the draft. His passing and shooting are way beyond Frank's. And that's no knock on Frank.

Haliburton at 20 is currently a year younger than frank at 21 but frank has been in the nba 3 years already on the most dysfunctional team in the league. So yes Haliburton should be lot more NBA ready and confident than frank was in 2017

Ok we acknowledge their similar physical dimensions (although Haliburton again lacks a few inches of height and wingspan compared to frank, both are super thin) and defensive ability.

Haliburton looks like a great passer especially pick and roll but his shortcoming in the NBA will be the same as frank, and it’s that he doesn’t have the handle the craftiness or the speed and strength to get to the rim like the great playmakers can do. He reminds me more of Frank on the French National team, a bus driver 3 and D PG who can bring it up and make the right reads but isn’t really a dynamic scorer or playmaker. In fact if you compare haliburton per 36 mins stats to Frank in FIBA last summer they are pretty similar

I think that type of player is better suited for an established team who needs an NBA ready game manager type player but a team in need of star power with extreme lack of talent might need to take a swing for the fences. Plus we have that mold of player already... frank

Frank is listed @ 6'4" while Haliburton is 6'5" Franks Wing span is 7'1" while Hali's is 7.0 So they are nearly identical physically. His handle is good actually, not sure why people think its lacking :

Watch on YouTube

Actually the more I look at Haliburton the more I like him. He's got an "IT" factor to him.

I don't think his handle is "bad" it's pretty solid actually, I mean he will take care of the ball and has a great assist to turnover ratio as he manages the game which is exactly what you want from this type of player, but I don't see him being able to get to the rim with it,that is to say he's not going to be crossing people over to get past a defender. I would once again put it about the same as frank

I'm not really even trying to knock him with that comparison because I like frank, he had a 20 pt 10 ast game the 2nd to last game of the season.

I just don't see why the knicks would take him. The reports are that they are prioritizing a "scoring point guard" if you look on tankathon he has a lot of statistical plus categories, but what are the two statistical negatives? Points, and FTA rate. So one might ask, how is this guy not scoring a lot of points when he plays nearly the entire game and shoots 42% from 3? FTA rate is one clue, can't really get the rim or get to the line, skinny frame is probably one reason for that limitation, and also mid range game is not there with the weird shot release.

Anyway I could be totally wrong his shot could translate flawlessly and he could be the next SGA, let's find out

[Fat]

hailburton is more lonzo ball than Ntilkina. I can see why he would get compared to Ntilkina though. He’s the type of player that is intent with running the offense through his teammates rather than scoring himself. The major difference is he is efficiently shooting 40 percent from 3 and is a mastermind in transition. Outside of that their Is nothing WOW about hailburton on offense.

[robillionaire]

hailburton is more lonzo ball than Ntilkina. I can see why he would get compared to Ntilkina though. He’s the type of player that is intent with running the offense through his teammates rather than scoring himself. The major difference is he is efficiently shooting 40 percent from 3 and is a mastermind in transition. Outside of that their Is nothing WOW about hailburton on offense.

I'll say this, if he is able to maintain a 40% 3pt in the NBA he will always have a place in the league and could be a really good player, I'm just reluctant to accept that he will because the release is so weird. I will say the main thing I'm impressed with as far as his shot goes is his confidence and his deep range that I wouldn't have expected. But also they are mostly wide open looks or catch and shoot, I don't think he will be creating shots off the dribble

Lest we forget Frank shot 43.1% in strasbourg his last season before the knicks drafted him and his release actually looked good

[WargamesX]

Their are similarities between Frank and Haliburton but they have different types of games and would likely thrive in different situations.

They both are larger PGs who play defense, and have 3 pt range due to Catch and Shoot. Frank is a secondary ball handler. He’s been trying to play PG but has been having issues due to lack of speed. He’s been working on his dribble drive and we’ve seen progress. Haliburton is a primary ball handler who can play off ball because he has range.

Just looking at the types of passes Haliburton makes and he is better than Frank at it. Frank is reliable to make the good past, Haliburton has more creativity with his passes and shows flashiness with it. Also for the dribble drive Frank often relied on pick to get space and then drive. A few videos mentioned how a flaw to Hal’s game was him not using picks enough, instead he would use his dribble, eye movement (like a QB) and ball protection to get to the ball.

Neither player has great foot speed, but Haliburton game fits a primary PG, Franks game fits a Combo D&3 guard who can play back up PG/SG. This difference between them is good because it allows the two of them to play together in the back court and to play with RJ at SG.

[Fat]

hailburton is more lonzo ball than Ntilkina. I can see why he would get compared to Ntilkina though. He’s the type of player that is intent with running the offense through his teammates rather than scoring himself. The major difference is he is efficiently shooting 40 percent from 3 and is a mastermind in transition. Outside of that their Is nothing WOW about hailburton on offense.

I'll say this, if he is able to maintain a 40% 3pt in the NBA he will always have a place in the league and could be a really good player, I'm just reluctant to accept that he will because the release is so weird. I will say the main thing I'm impressed with as far as his shot goes is his confidence and his deep range that I wouldn't have expected. But also they are mostly wide open looks or catch and shoot, I don't think he will be creating shots off the dribble

Lest we forget Frank shot 43.1% in strasbourg his last season before the knicks drafted him and his release actually looked good

That’s why he needs to be drafted to a team that can feed off his strengths. RJ/hailburton/Mitchell works but it also has its limits without a true go to player on the floor unless RJ can be that.

[3toheadmelo]

Haliburtons handle is basic like Frank. But besides that, he is better than Frank in every other aspect by a large margin

[3toheadmelo]

Theo Maledon is more like Frank than every other PG. He’s crafty like SGA but has Franks mentality. I haven’t seen him picked in the lottery in any mock since the season started

[WargamesX]

Haliburtons handle is basic like Frank. But besides that, he is better than Frank in every other aspect by a large margin

It might be basic but his handle looks way better than Franks. Frank definitely improved but his best move is a behind the back dribble to change direction. Haliburton was working his way into the paint, keeping his back to the defender while keeping his dribble live, and then connecting with the trailing big with a pass in some of those videos. I’ve never seen Frank do that. That is the difference between a primary and secondary ball handler

Also Franks defense is better Hal is not a shutdown defender. Though as the league trends towards smaller back courts I would love to see Frank and Hal play together and give some of these teams fits.

[3toheadmelo]

Haliburtons handle is basic like Frank. But besides that, he is better than Frank in every other aspect by a large margin

It might be basic but his handle looks way better than Franks. Frank definitely improved but his best move is a behind the back dribble to change direction. Haliburton was working his way into the paint, keeping his back to the defender while keeping his dribble live, and then connecting with the trailing big with a pass in some of those videos. I’ve never seen Frank do that. That is the difference between a primary and secondary ball handler

Also Franks defense is better Hal is not a shutdown defender. Though as the league trends towards smaller back courts I would love to see Frank and Hal play together and give some of these teams fits.

Yes Tyrese handles are better but still basic to me. But his playmaking is 100x better.

I would not want to see a Tyrese and Frank back court. Frank still can’t play off the ball due to not being a consistent shooter. Keep him on the bench

[Deeeez Knicks]

Haliburtons vision/passing is what sets him apart. He would fit well next to RJ/Mitch too.

[mpharris36]

Haliburtons handle is basic like Frank. But besides that, he is better than Frank in every other aspect by a large margin

It might be basic but his handle looks way better than Franks. Frank definitely improved but his best move is a behind the back dribble to change direction. Haliburton was working his way into the paint, keeping his back to the defender while keeping his dribble live, and then connecting with the trailing big with a pass in some of those videos. I’ve never seen Frank do that. That is the difference between a primary and secondary ball handler

Also Franks defense is better Hal is not a shutdown defender. Though as the league trends towards smaller back courts I would love to see Frank and Hal play together and give some of these teams fits.

Yes Tyrese handles are better but still basic to me. But his playmaking is 100x better.

I would not want to see a Tyrese and Frank back court. Frank still can’t play off the ball due to not being a consistent shooter. Keep him on the bench

If they drafted Haliburton, Frank would be coming off the bench.

[robillionaire]

It might be basic but his handle looks way better than Franks. Frank definitely improved but his best move is a behind the back dribble to change direction. Haliburton was working his way into the paint, keeping his back to the defender while keeping his dribble live, and then connecting with the trailing big with a pass in some of those videos. I’ve never seen Frank do that. That is the difference between a primary and secondary ball handler

Also Franks defense is better Hal is not a shutdown defender. Though as the league trends towards smaller back courts I would love to see Frank and Hal play together and give some of these teams fits.

Yes Tyrese handles are better but still basic to me. But his playmaking is 100x better.

I would not want to see a Tyrese and Frank back court. Frank still can’t play off the ball due to not being a consistent shooter. Keep him on the bench

If they drafted Haliburton, Frank would be coming off the bench.

I would have Frank be my backup PG but it might just be too redundant with if they draft Haliburton. I'd try to trade frank for a scoring PG. Since we still won't have one

[3toheadmelo]

It might be basic but his handle looks way better than Franks. Frank definitely improved but his best move is a behind the back dribble to change direction. Haliburton was working his way into the paint, keeping his back to the defender while keeping his dribble live, and then connecting with the trailing big with a pass in some of those videos. I’ve never seen Frank do that. That is the difference between a primary and secondary ball handler

Also Franks defense is better Hal is not a shutdown defender. Though as the league trends towards smaller back courts I would love to see Frank and Hal play together and give some of these teams fits.

Yes Tyrese handles are better but still basic to me. But his playmaking is 100x better.

I would not want to see a Tyrese and Frank back court. Frank still can’t play off the ball due to not being a consistent shooter. Keep him on the bench

If they drafted Haliburton, Frank would be coming off the bench.

[finestrg]

Wanted to get some feedback on a player comparison fellas: Saddiq Bey vs. Devin Vassell. In terms of better overall player pound for pound, and better fit for the Knicks. I really like what Bey brings (I think he'd be a huge instant upgrade over Knox moving forward at the 3) but Vassell is a guy I'm really warming up to as well..

Some similarities but they have their differences. I think Bey might be the slightly more advanced player offensively, and Vassell the better defensive player. I think Bey has a little more off the dribble -- not even that he's THAT explosive going to the basket, but he's got enough variation/moxie to realize that when the 3 isn't there, to either take it to the rim or methodically work a shot in closer, backing his man down with his strength and size for a post up opportunity, etc. (where he's pretty good/underrated). Vassell, meanwhile, doesn't show much off the dribble at all (indicative by his low FT rate), but there's a lot to like here with him -- he's a real good 3-pt shooter and I think this definitely translates over (great form, nice high release -- I think he's right there with Saddiq and Nesmith as the 3 best shooters in this draft), he's a very good athlete and can get up and down the floor and finish in transition... Then, defensively, he really shines. While Bey's no slouch here, this guy's even better -- he can really ball-hawk his man and stay in front of him, can reach in and pick a ball-handler's pocket in a flash with those incredibly long arms, has excellent defensive versatility as he can guard 3 positions legit (I think defensively, Vassell can guard any NBA 2 or 3 and probably most PGs with no problem, while Bey feels like strictly a SF to me on both ends). Vassell can also block some shots too, coming weakside, so that's a plus. In terms of "3 & D," Vassell is probably the most quintessential example you will ever see -- and both of these attributes of his will translate over to the NBA right away I'm thinking--he's more than good enough in both areas (just day dreaming before about how much Michael Jordan would've been affected trying to operate on Vassell, having to contend with this kid's athleticism, excellent defensive instincts and very long arms -- I would've loved to have seen that). But then with Vassell: is there enough there with the rest of his game offensively to warrant moving down from 6 or up from 25 to try to get him? Or Bey for that matter?

So who would be a better fit on the Knicks? I guess it would come down to who we might be looking to replace/what position we might be looking to re-fortify -- Knox with Bey, or Dotson/Trier with Vassell (although at 6'7" with that great length, Vassell can play SF in the NBA as well). And then I guess it would come down to skill set evaluation -- who would you rather have: the slightly more advanced offensively player (Bey), or a player that gives you a little less offensively in the half court off the dribble but is practically as good a shooter (both excellent) and capable of giving you even more defensively (Vassell)?

An interesting comparison. Where do each of these guys wind up getting selected and who would be the better fit on the Knicks if you had to choose?

[3toheadmelo]

Yes Tyrese handles are better but still basic to me. But his playmaking is 100x better.

I would not want to see a Tyrese and Frank back court. Frank still can’t play off the ball due to not being a consistent shooter. Keep him on the bench

If they drafted Haliburton, Frank would be coming off the bench.

I would have Frank be my backup PG but it might just be too redundant with if they draft Haliburton. I'd try to trade frank for a scoring PG. Since we still won't have one

Our point guard doesn’t have to be a scoring one tho. Haliburton’s court vision gives him the potential to run a offense. I wouldn’t mind keeping Frank as a glue guy off the bench.

[robillionaire]

If they drafted Haliburton, Frank would be coming off the bench.

I would have Frank be my backup PG but it might just be too redundant with if they draft Haliburton. I'd try to trade frank for a scoring PG. Since we still won't have one

Our point guard doesn’t have to be a scoring one tho. Haliburton’s court vision gives him the potential to run a offense. I wouldn’t mind keeping Frank as a glue guy off the bench.

The starter doesn't have to be a scoring one I agree but I don't think you need a glue guy starter and a glue guy backup I think you need different types of options for when you need a change of pace