OT: Official MMA discussion thread pt 3 UFC 319: DDP vs Chimaev, Aaron Pico vs Lerone Murphy

[Ghetto Gospel]

i regret staying up late to watch strickland vs du plessis. never going past 1am for a strickland fight again

Strickland has always been more talk than backing it up. He's a great fighter and a tough opponent to figure out. But that's mainly because he takes no risks and has a really good jab. Everything else he does is safe, which is reflected in his finishing rate.

This video does a great job of calling it out. He talks too damned big for his style of fighting. On the mic he'll claim he'd be psyched to kill a guy in the octagon; then he gets to the octagon and jabs the guy up with an occasional teep.

Watch on YouTube

yeah i think it just doesn't translate well in a 5 round fight when he's on the defense the entire time.

the izzy fight was fun but that probably had more to do with the stakes and the underdog status. the first dricus fight was eh, not terrible, but i don't see strickland fights getting more entertaining from here. izzy vs strickland 2 if they make it is probably not going to be that fun this time around with no real stakes

[Ghetto Gospel]

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Two bright sides of the lackluster PPV are the most likely title fights its results lead to.

1. Dricus vs Chimaev is fun for so many reasons. Chimaev has bullied most opponents, but Dricus is probably the strongest (literal strength) fighter in the division, except for maybe Khamzat. Chimaev's grappling has been overwhelming, but Dricus is surprisingly crafty on the ground, particularly with chokes. Khamzat's the cleaner striker, but DDP's weird approach has thrown off sharper strikers than Khamzat.

The alternative should there be an injury? Nassourdine Imavov...a certified beast in his own right. I like Imavov's UFC resume more than Khamzat's so far.

2. Weili Zhang vs Valentina Shevchenko is a rare super-fight that feels justified. They've won 15 title fights combined in their divisions. Zhang has fought in title fights since 2019, Valentina since 2018. They're 35 and 36, respectively, so their windows of greatness are bound to start closing soon. They have one clear contender each, but this is a rare case where the superfight feels completely justified.

It's also an intriguing fight on paper. They're elite strikers who switch to wrestling seamlessly. Weili has elite entries, while Valentina is an elite counter-striker. They both pack power and are tough to finish. It's a match made in heaven between the consensus number 1 and number 2 pound-for-pound fighters of UFC's female divisions.

Which means...
The PPV sucked. But it laid the groundwork for a pair of fights that could be headliners. I'd love to see Zhang vs Bullet at International Fight Week's big event. Chimaev vs Dricus...book it as soon as possible and pray Khamzat doesn't get hurt or sick again.

chimaev vs dricus either goes 1 of 2 ways. either chimaev takes him down then packs him up in round 1, maybe round 2 or dricus survives round 1/2 and it turns into a messy slobberknocker with imo, dricus having the edge because of cardio reasons in a 5 round fight.

for weili vs shevchenko, it feels like shevchenko has been on the decline a little bit while weili has only been getting better so that should make up for the weight disparity. i feel this could actually be a main event too for how big the fight is and all that, but i could easily see this fight not being one because it could be pretty boring as well if shevchenko can take weili down and just hold her there for multiple rounds

[Guano]

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Two bright sides of the lackluster PPV are the most likely title fights its results lead to.

1. Dricus vs Chimaev is fun for so many reasons. Chimaev has bullied most opponents, but Dricus is probably the strongest (literal strength) fighter in the division, except for maybe Khamzat. Chimaev's grappling has been overwhelming, but Dricus is surprisingly crafty on the ground, particularly with chokes. Khamzat's the cleaner striker, but DDP's weird approach has thrown off sharper strikers than Khamzat.

The alternative should there be an injury? Nassourdine Imavov...a certified beast in his own right. I like Imavov's UFC resume more than Khamzat's so far.

2. Weili Zhang vs Valentina Shevchenko is a rare super-fight that feels justified. They've won 15 title fights combined in their divisions. Zhang has fought in title fights since 2019, Valentina since 2018. They're 35 and 36, respectively, so their windows of greatness are bound to start closing soon. They have one clear contender each, but this is a rare case where the superfight feels completely justified.

It's also an intriguing fight on paper. They're elite strikers who switch to wrestling seamlessly. Weili has elite entries, while Valentina is an elite counter-striker. They both pack power and are tough to finish. It's a match made in heaven between the consensus number 1 and number 2 pound-for-pound fighters of UFC's female divisions.

Which means...
The PPV sucked. But it laid the groundwork for a pair of fights that could be headliners. I'd love to see Zhang vs Bullet at International Fight Week's big event. Chimaev vs Dricus...book it as soon as possible and pray Khamzat doesn't get hurt or sick again.

chimaev vs dricus either goes 1 of 2 ways. either chimaev takes him down then packs him up in round 1, maybe round 2 or dricus survives round 1/2 and it turns into a messy slobberknocker with imo, dricus having the edge because of cardio reasons in a 5 round fight.

for weili vs shevchenko, it feels like shevchenko has been on the decline a little bit while weili has only been getting better so that should make up for the weight disparity. i feel this could actually be a main event too for how big the fight is and all that, but i could easily see this fight not being one because it could be pretty boring as well if shevchenko can take weili down and just hold her there for multiple rounds

spot on with the chimaev vs dricus breakdown. though I tend to think chimaev gets him out early.

as for the other fight i have a hard time believing shev can hold down weili if suarez couldn't do it. and agree that shev is on the decline. i tend to think weili puts a beating on shev if they end up fighting.

as for wmma - i really hate how rose's career has played out. her fight plan against carla was terrible. and I don't get why she ever moved up in weight. she is still a HOF but i truly think she could have went down as 1 of the greatest fighters of all time. And I blame Pat Berry for ruining her legacy.

[Ghetto Gospel]

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Two bright sides of the lackluster PPV are the most likely title fights its results lead to.

1. Dricus vs Chimaev is fun for so many reasons. Chimaev has bullied most opponents, but Dricus is probably the strongest (literal strength) fighter in the division, except for maybe Khamzat. Chimaev's grappling has been overwhelming, but Dricus is surprisingly crafty on the ground, particularly with chokes. Khamzat's the cleaner striker, but DDP's weird approach has thrown off sharper strikers than Khamzat.

The alternative should there be an injury? Nassourdine Imavov...a certified beast in his own right. I like Imavov's UFC resume more than Khamzat's so far.

2. Weili Zhang vs Valentina Shevchenko is a rare super-fight that feels justified. They've won 15 title fights combined in their divisions. Zhang has fought in title fights since 2019, Valentina since 2018. They're 35 and 36, respectively, so their windows of greatness are bound to start closing soon. They have one clear contender each, but this is a rare case where the superfight feels completely justified.

It's also an intriguing fight on paper. They're elite strikers who switch to wrestling seamlessly. Weili has elite entries, while Valentina is an elite counter-striker. They both pack power and are tough to finish. It's a match made in heaven between the consensus number 1 and number 2 pound-for-pound fighters of UFC's female divisions.

Which means...
The PPV sucked. But it laid the groundwork for a pair of fights that could be headliners. I'd love to see Zhang vs Bullet at International Fight Week's big event. Chimaev vs Dricus...book it as soon as possible and pray Khamzat doesn't get hurt or sick again.

chimaev vs dricus either goes 1 of 2 ways. either chimaev takes him down then packs him up in round 1, maybe round 2 or dricus survives round 1/2 and it turns into a messy slobberknocker with imo, dricus having the edge because of cardio reasons in a 5 round fight.

for weili vs shevchenko, it feels like shevchenko has been on the decline a little bit while weili has only been getting better so that should make up for the weight disparity. i feel this could actually be a main event too for how big the fight is and all that, but i could easily see this fight not being one because it could be pretty boring as well if shevchenko can take weili down and just hold her there for multiple rounds

spot on with the chimaev vs dricus breakdown. though I tend to think chimaev gets him out early.

as for the other fight i have a hard time believing shev can hold down weili if suarez couldn't do it. and agree that shev is on the decline. i tend to think weili puts a beating on shev if they end up fighting.

as for wmma - i really hate how rose's career has played out. her fight plan against carla was terrible. and I don't get why she ever moved up in weight. she is still a HOF but i truly think she could have went down as 1 of the greatest fighters of all time. And I blame Pat Berry for ruining her legacy.

if weili takes out shevchenko, she should get in on julianna pena ASAP before kayla harrison takes that belt because i think weili has a good chance to take out pena and have all 3 womens divisions belts packed up, which would be a crazy achievement and actually conceivable for her

rose on her best day was the best in her division but unfortunately, i think her mental was just a little too inconsistent. also just consistently boring fights i fear even though she's a striker, just too defensive

[j4remi]

spot on with the chimaev vs dricus breakdown. though I tend to think chimaev gets him out early.

as for the other fight i have a hard time believing shev can hold down weili if suarez couldn't do it. and agree that shev is on the decline. i tend to think weili puts a beating on shev if they end up fighting.

as for wmma - i really hate how rose's career has played out. her fight plan against carla was terrible. and I don't get why she ever moved up in weight. she is still a HOF but i truly think she could have went down as 1 of the greatest fighters of all time. And I blame Pat Berry for ruining her legacy.

I consider Chimaev vs Dricus a toss up because of that dynamic where it's a steamroll or cardio will be the deciding factor. I could genuinely picture DDP getting pieced up early but overwhelming Khamzat as he slows down.

Agreed on Weili. I think a great performance from Zhang will really cement her place in the female GOAT conversation. She'd still have work to do to catch Nunes and Cyborg, but I wouldn't put anyone else ahead.

I 100% Agree about Rose and Pat Berry. She went from one of the GOAT coaches, Trevor Wittman, to Berry and I don't think she's been the same fighter since that switch. Jack Slack mentioned how tough it would probably be to stay objective and not get emotionally involved, for a husband watching his wife fight. That's before we get into the...weirdness of Berry and Rose.

Edit: I made a mess of the quotes...

[Guano]

chimaev vs dricus either goes 1 of 2 ways. either chimaev takes him down then packs him up in round 1, maybe round 2 or dricus survives round 1/2 and it turns into a messy slobberknocker with imo, dricus having the edge because of cardio reasons in a 5 round fight.

for weili vs shevchenko, it feels like shevchenko has been on the decline a little bit while weili has only been getting better so that should make up for the weight disparity. i feel this could actually be a main event too for how big the fight is and all that, but i could easily see this fight not being one because it could be pretty boring as well if shevchenko can take weili down and just hold her there for multiple rounds

spot on with the chimaev vs dricus breakdown. though I tend to think chimaev gets him out early.

as for the other fight i have a hard time believing shev can hold down weili if suarez couldn't do it. and agree that shev is on the decline. i tend to think weili puts a beating on shev if they end up fighting.

as for wmma - i really hate how rose's career has played out. her fight plan against carla was terrible. and I don't get why she ever moved up in weight. she is still a HOF but i truly think she could have went down as 1 of the greatest fighters of all time. And I blame Pat Berry for ruining her legacy.

if weili takes out shevchenko, she should get in on julianna pena ASAP before kayla harrison takes that belt because i think weili has a good chance to take out pena and have all 3 womens divisions belts packed up, which would be a crazy achievement and actually conceivable for her

rose on her best day was the best in her division but unfortunately, i think her mental was just a little too inconsistent. also just consistently boring fights i fear even though she's a striker, just too defensive

i think that 2nd fight with carla really fcked up the optics of her career cause rose has been in some really awesome fights. but being in arguably the worst championship fight did some serious damage to her rep. cause prior to that she had been in some amazing fights and had an amazing record against the best of that division. KO'ing Joanna and Weili... he'll even in her losses getting power slammed by Andrade. she has been in WARS. I have nothing but respect for her and am just sad for what could have been.

[Guano]

spot on with the chimaev vs dricus breakdown. though I tend to think chimaev gets him out early.

as for the other fight i have a hard time believing shev can hold down weili if suarez couldn't do it. and agree that shev is on the decline. i tend to think weili puts a beating on shev if they end up fighting.

as for wmma - i really hate how rose's career has played out. her fight plan against carla was terrible. and I don't get why she ever moved up in weight. she is still a HOF but i truly think she could have went down as 1 of the greatest fighters of all time. And I blame Pat Berry for ruining her legacy.

I consider Chimaev vs Dricus a toss up because of that dynamic where it's a steamroll or cardio will be the deciding factor. I could genuinely picture DDP getting pieced up early but overwhelming Khamzat as he slows down.

Agreed on Weili. I think a great performance from Zhang will really cement her place in the female GOAT conversation. She'd still have work to do to catch Nunes and Cyborg, but I wouldn't put anyone else ahead.

I 100% Agree about Rose and Pat Berry. She went from one of the GOAT coaches, Trevor Wittman, to Berry and I don't think she's been the same fighter since that switch. Jack Slack mentioned how tough it would probably be to stay objective and not get emotionally involved, for a husband watching his wife fight. That's before we get into the...weirdness of Berry and Rose.

Edit: I made a mess of the quotes...

sometimes super fights annoy me cause it feels like they hold up 2 divisions. and bypass deserving fighters... but in the case of shev vs weili LFG!!!!!!!!!!! it will be an extremely entertaining fight. they're not point fighters they bring the violence. I just think weili is reaching the pinnacle of her career while shev is on the downslope.

[j4remi]

sometimes super fights annoy me cause it feels like they hold up 2 divisions. and bypass deserving fighters... but in the case of shev vs weili LFG!!!!!!!!!!! it will be an extremely entertaining fight. they're not point fighters they bring the violence. I just think weili is reaching the pinnacle of her career while shev is on the downslope.

I'm an outspoken superfights hater too . But I'm in the same boat as you, this is one of the few exceptions for me. They should scrap out, and it's a rare case where we get to watch two of the GOAT WMMA fighters against each other. The only other two match-ups I can think of that pit the best two WMMA fighters of the time against each other are Cyborg vs Nunes and Cyborg vs Carano.

I think Weili's got a good shot to take down Shevchenko and make one last run defending the 125 lbs title before she calls it a career. The only thing that's a shame is we probably wouldn't get Yan Xionan's rematch. She's the only female in either division that I'd consider betting on against Zhang.

[j4remi]

Got a flurry of announcements overnight and big news regarding some title fights:
- Belal Muhammad will defend his belt against Jack Della-Maddalena next. Shavkhat got the offer but he's injured (it was rumored he fought Ian Garry with an injury btw).

- Ilia Topuria is relinquishing the FW belt and moving to Lightweight. Dana said his fight hasn't been secured yet, so it's not announced. The two names I've seen speculated are Islam of course, and Dustin Poirier.

- With Topuria out, the FW title fight will be Alex Volkanovski vs Diego Lopes.

- Patricio Pitbull Friere is officially signed. He'll debut against Yair Rodriguez, which is an AWESOME fight.

- On the "unconfirmed" or "not settled yet" side of things; Aaron Pico has gone public in asking the PFL to release him and let him sign with the UFC. PFL seems to be hanging on to their right to match his contract though, which could shelf him for another year.

- Finally, it sounds like the Jon Jones vs Tom Aspinall talks are struggling. The latest rumor is that the UFC had preliminary talks with Cyril Gane and Tom Aspinall as back-up plan. It would be for the Lineal title, which means Jones will be stripped or relinquish the belt and this will be for undisputed gold.

[HarthorneWingo]

Do you think Topo didn’t want Lopez’s smoke?

And fuq Jon Jones

[j4remi]

Do you think Topo didn’t want Lopez’s smoke?

And fuq Jon Jones

I think it's more about the value of headlining a PPV against Islam or Poirier. I'd give both guys an edge over Lopez in terms of risk but the reward outweighs the risk for Topuria, and if Ilia is thinking about valuable names, the LW division has more valuable match-ups overall.

[Ghetto Gospel]

Got a flurry of announcements overnight and big news regarding some title fights:
- Belal Muhammad will defend his belt against Jack Della-Maddalena next. Shavkhat got the offer but he's injured (it was rumored he fought Ian Garry with an injury btw).

- Ilia Topuria is relinquishing the FW belt and moving to Lightweight. Dana said his fight hasn't been secured yet, so it's not announced. The two names I've seen speculated are Islam of course, and Dustin Poirier.

- With Topuria out, the FW title fight will be Alex Volkanovski vs Diego Lopes.

- Patricio Pitbull Friere is officially signed. He'll debut against Yair Rodriguez, which is an AWESOME fight.

- On the "unconfirmed" or "not settled yet" side of things; Aaron Pico has gone public in asking the PFL to release him and let him sign with the UFC. PFL seems to be hanging on to their right to match his contract though, which could shelf him for another year.

- Finally, it sounds like the Jon Jones vs Tom Aspinall talks are struggling. The latest rumor is that the UFC had preliminary talks with Cyril Gane and Tom Aspinall as back-up plan. It would be for the Lineal title, which means Jones will be stripped or relinquish the belt and this will be for undisputed gold.

topuria relinquishing his belt leads me to believe he won't get islam right away. topuria could get a #1 contenders fight right away though and him arman for a #1 contenders fight would be a great fight imo and it would make islams next few fights pretty clear assuming he wins all his fights.

islam vs charles 2
islam vs winner of topuria/arman
islam to 170

314 looks kinda weak from the top. not sure how chandler vs paddy is a 5 round co-main and volk vs lopes is kinda mid with volk at this point in his career for a vacant belt.

315 looks okay but still kind of weak too with shavkat out. i'm glad to see manon getting her shot at valentina, it'd be tragic for her to have to wait on a weili vs valentina fight.

[j4remi]

topuria relinquishing his belt leads me to believe he won't get islam right away. topuria could get a #1 contenders fight right away though and him arman for a #1 contenders fight would be a great fight imo and it would make islams next few fights pretty clear assuming he wins all his fights.

islam vs charles 2
islam vs winner of topuria/arman
islam to 170

314 looks kinda weak from the top. not sure how chandler vs paddy is a 5 round co-main and volk vs lopes is kinda mid with volk at this point in his career for a vacant belt.

315 looks okay but still kind of weak too with shavkat out. i'm glad to see manon getting her shot at valentina, it'd be tragic for her to have to wait on a weili vs valentina fight.

I could see Ilia vs Arman being a nice contender fight...I like it more than a Poirier fight, but I'm not sure if Topuria would relinquish just to have to beat Arman. Diamond or Islam is a money fight, and I generally assume money drives these decisions over everything

314 is light at the top, but has a lot of really good match-ups on the rest of the card. Xionan vs Jandiroba should decide a challenger for Zhang. Krylov vs Reyes is matching two KO or be KO'ed LHWs. Prates vs Neal is a SCRAP! And then the undercard has some fun stuff like Ige vs Woodson and Miller vs Hooper.

It's one of those cards that I could see being way better than the name value on it.

315 needs a couple more matches. But I love Silva vs Grasso and agreed on Fiorot vs Valentina...Manon's done everything to earn the shot, so I'm happy for her.

[HarthorneWingo]

Do you think Topo didn’t want Lopez’s smoke?

And fuq Jon Jones

I think it's more about the value of headlining a PPV against Islam or Poirier. I'd give both guys an edge over Lopez in terms of risk but the reward outweighs the risk for Topuria, and if Ilia is thinking about valuable names, the LW division has more valuable match-ups overall.

Yeah, makes more sense.

[Ghetto Gospel]

topuria relinquishing his belt leads me to believe he won't get islam right away. topuria could get a #1 contenders fight right away though and him arman for a #1 contenders fight would be a great fight imo and it would make islams next few fights pretty clear assuming he wins all his fights.

islam vs charles 2
islam vs winner of topuria/arman
islam to 170

314 looks kinda weak from the top. not sure how chandler vs paddy is a 5 round co-main and volk vs lopes is kinda mid with volk at this point in his career for a vacant belt.

315 looks okay but still kind of weak too with shavkat out. i'm glad to see manon getting her shot at valentina, it'd be tragic for her to have to wait on a weili vs valentina fight.

I could see Ilia vs Arman being a nice contender fight...I like it more than a Poirier fight, but I'm not sure if Topuria would relinquish just to have to beat Arman. Diamond or Islam is a money fight, and I generally assume money drives these decisions over everything

314 is light at the top, but has a lot of really good match-ups on the rest of the card. Xionan vs Jandiroba should decide a challenger for Zhang. Krylov vs Reyes is matching two KO or be KO'ed LHWs. Prates vs Neal is a SCRAP! And then the undercard has some fun stuff like Ige vs Woodson and Miller vs Hooper.

It's one of those cards that I could see being way better than the name value on it.

315 needs a couple more matches. But I love Silva vs Grasso and agreed on Fiorot vs Valentina...Manon's done everything to earn the shot, so I'm happy for her.

yeah, just spitballing here because arman does need to fight someone here and outside of ilia, i'm not sure what fight he would get outside of maybe an arman vs charles II 5 rounder. that would be a nice title eliminator fight there too

ilia vs poirier could be fun but what if poirier wins? i'm not sure i want to see another poirier title fight. charles could be a fun matchup for ilia too and could be a nice new #1 contenders fight too.

maybe ilia vs winner of gaethje vs hooker? either of those fights would be fun scraps.

really any ilia topuria fight at LW sounds fun

[j4remi]

yeah, just spitballing here because arman does need to fight someone here and outside of ilia, i'm not sure what fight he would get outside of maybe an arman vs charles II 5 rounder. that would be a nice title eliminator fight there too

ilia vs poirier could be fun but what if poirier wins? i'm not sure i want to see another poirier title fight. charles could be a fun matchup for ilia too and could be a nice new #1 contenders fight too.

maybe ilia vs winner of gaethje vs hooker? either of those fights would be fun scraps.

really any ilia topuria fight at LW sounds fun

Yeah, Ilia vs basically any top-5 LW is a hyped fight. God forbid Paddy beats Michael Chandler, that beef will get brought back to life just for a cash grab.

I'd like to see that Arman vs Do-Bronx for five rounds. I thought Charles deserved the first decision off the near submissions. Dustin vs Ilia would be a good way to decide if he should stay at 155 or stick to 145. Islam would be kinda screwed if Diamond won, but then maybe that's his excuse to move up to Welterweight.

I'm kinda surprised they gave JDM the title shot instead of trying to get Islam into that slot. Not that JDM doesn't deserve it, but it felt like they wanted him to win one more fight before challenging.

[HarthorneWingo]

Fight Night card on TV?

[Guano]

I cant see ilia not getting a title shot. It would be insane for him to vacate the belt for a contender fight.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I cant see ilia not getting a title shot. It would be insane for him to vacate the belt for a contender fight.

That's an idiotic rule to be honest, you'd think they'd want guys to be double champs. Having a guy vacate his belt cheapens it for the next person that wins it, because it'll always be "You didn't beat the champ" to get it.

[Ghetto Gospel]

a few interesting things. seems like dana isn't really dead set on an ilia vs islam superfight at 155 right now and what diego lopes said about no more double champs going forward is kind of half true. they'd just be expected to get busy and actually defend both belts now rather than what was going on in the past where they just held the divisions up for a while.

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seems like ilia wants nothing but a title shot though. not sure what leverage he has here since he just vacated..?

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