July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread

[DrCoach]

I didn't know Johnathan Holmes was available. Thought the Celtics signed him, he was pretty good in SL

[moocow007]

Mentioned in the other thread but the Knicks should be looking to add some sort of strong veteran leader to their locker room. Elton Brand, Tayshaun Prince or even Shawn Marion would qualify in that department. Don't necessarily need them to play a lot of minutes but some sort of strong voice in the lockerroom that can help both show the way for the young guys but also act as a bridge to keep the likely different moving parts on team on the same page.

You mean?












8 + 5 = 13 ?

I don't know, maybe if the Knicks were looking for a leader to lead them off planet.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

so lets say we get durant next year, what does that mean for porzingis? is he going to be our 6th man?

PG
SG
Durant
Melo
Porzingod

[moocow007]

How tall is he

Who Atkins? 6'7.5'-6.8". He's basically a slightly heavier less skilled version of Lance Thomas.

I was kind of hoping for a Antonio Davis comparison. Re-checking Knicks vs Spurs game he gave up zero buckets in 20 mins guarding Wear, Early and Ndour. He showed aggressively, kept people in front of him and seemed pretty physical. I see very little offensively and I don't see a shot blocker. I would think he projects as a dirty work PF type but he doesn't look like an outstanding rebounder either - does not look relentless going for the ball. Summer league stats overall were not impressive in terms of filling up stat sheet and his minutes declined over the course of the league.

While I can understand the Knicks wanting to bring in hard working physical guys, I don't see this as anything more than giving the other players that might actually make this team a meat puppet to battle in training camp. It's basically $100-200k of guaranteed money (what I'm guessing is the guaranteed portion of the deal...it's basically what the guarantee for Ledo was for this upcoming season) to rent him for the summer (minimally) and then put him on the D-League team for the upcoming D-League season to help the W Knicks play better. I don't see him making this team at all this season with basically more proven players of the same exact type (Lance Thomas and Louis Amdunson) already signed. It definitely does not seem like Jackson is looking for the next Hassan Whiteside or some such guy and is just looking for low ceilinged solid guys to inundate this organization with. Me? If I actually trusted my player development staff, I'd be looking for that high risk high reward type (which neither Saunders nor Atkins is by any stretch) and saying, you guys get something from this.

Honestly, I don't get the point of either signing...definitely not Atkins.

[thebuzzardman]

Who Atkins? 6'7.5'-6.8". He's basically a slightly heavier less skilled version of Lance Thomas.

I was kind of hoping for a Antonio Davis comparison. Re-checking Knicks vs Spurs game he gave up zero buckets in 20 mins guarding Wear, Early and Ndour. He showed aggressively, kept people in front of him and seemed pretty physical. I see very little offensively and I don't see a shot blocker. I would think he projects as a dirty work PF type but he doesn't look like an outstanding rebounder either - does not look relentless going for the ball. Summer league stats overall were not impressive in terms of filling up stat sheet and his minutes declined over the course of the league.

While I can understand the Knicks wanting to bring in hard working physical guys, I don't see this as anything more than giving the other players that might actually make this team a meat puppet to battle in training camp. It's basically $100-200k of guaranteed money (what I'm guessing is the guaranteed portion of the deal...it's basically what the guarantee for Ledo was for this upcoming season) to rent him for the summer (minimally) and then put him on the D-League team for the upcoming D-League season to help the W Knicks play better. I don't see him making this team at all this season with basically more proven players of the same exact type (Lance Thomas and Louis Amdunson) already signed. It definitely does not seem like Jackson is looking for the next Hassan Whiteside or some such guy and is just looking for low ceilinged solid guys to inundate this organization with. Me? If I actually trusted my player development staff, I'd be looking for that high risk high reward type (which neither Saunders nor Atkins is by any stretch) and saying, you guys get something from this.

Honestly, I don't get the point of either signing...definitely not Atkins.

Well, I'd agree with you that Atkins isn't much of a prospect. However, if you ARE going to bring a body to training camp, bring in one that plays tough D, is a good character guy, and who might stick. Again, if the Knicks are trying to build a culture, and the culture is of hardworking players who play D and have relatively complete games (well, maybe not Atkins) then you should do it with players 1-20, which includes players like Atkins.


If I'm to understand the "high ceiling" guy, isn't that most likely to be a talented player who has a bit of a bad reputation as either lazy or a knucklehead, but the hope is that either the rep isn't truly deserved (rare) or the player changes (rarer still).

I'm going to disagree that Wes Saunders is low ceiling. I think getting a guy from the Ivy league is one of the few ways to get a player who was overlooked. And not like I expect Saunders to become a star or a starter. But he has a chance to be as good as Galloway. Maybe better. Who knows. Then that makes Galloway expendable, maybe in a trade. If both are kept, both are cheap.

I like what the Knicks are doing with the end of the bench, lets say players 11-15. First off, really only the top 9 players play. Maybe the 10th guy gets 5 minutes here and there. Players 11 and 12 are your emergency/injury spares. Back in the day, 11 and 12 were usually a 3rd string center and 3rd pg, attesting to height matters and helps to have somewhat who can competently bring the ball up, under pressure.

Due to expanding roster, there is no reason that players 13,14 and 15 shouldn't be development guys. Only the most desparate veteran would be happy sitting in a suit or the dleague for the extra dollars. Others may become malcontent. Best that these slots are filled with hard workers, with some potential, who are HAPPY to be there. I think that matters.

I like the approach so far. Galloway, Thanasis, Early, Ledo, Wear, Hernangomez (stashed). It's a pipeline, hopefully, of young, CHEAP, end of the bench talent.

Otherwise, you have to shell out more for some retread, so there is some cost effectiveness with this approach. And throwing enough, you know, at the wall, maybe one or two the guys pans out to be a little better than replacement level.

In any event, a team always wants to improve, even if incrementally. If somehow Atkins turns out to be a little better than Lance Thomas, cool, drop Thomas, this year or next. Maybe Saunders pushes Ledo, who should be pushing at Galloway. I like Galloway, but if Ledo or Saunders wind up being better, I would lose zero sleep seeing Galloway dealt or released at some point.

This is on top of Porzingis and Grant, who we expect to be more "blue chip" in terms of youth.

[3toheadmelo]

lets go after justin hamilton as a backup center

[moocow007]

lets go after justin hamilton as a backup center

Hamilton would seem to be in line with the type of players Jackson is focused on. And Himilton did look pretty good in a small sampling of games with the Heat.

[moocow007]

I was kind of hoping for a Antonio Davis comparison. Re-checking Knicks vs Spurs game he gave up zero buckets in 20 mins guarding Wear, Early and Ndour. He showed aggressively, kept people in front of him and seemed pretty physical. I see very little offensively and I don't see a shot blocker. I would think he projects as a dirty work PF type but he doesn't look like an outstanding rebounder either - does not look relentless going for the ball. Summer league stats overall were not impressive in terms of filling up stat sheet and his minutes declined over the course of the league.

While I can understand the Knicks wanting to bring in hard working physical guys, I don't see this as anything more than giving the other players that might actually make this team a meat puppet to battle in training camp. It's basically $100-200k of guaranteed money (what I'm guessing is the guaranteed portion of the deal...it's basically what the guarantee for Ledo was for this upcoming season) to rent him for the summer (minimally) and then put him on the D-League team for the upcoming D-League season to help the W Knicks play better. I don't see him making this team at all this season with basically more proven players of the same exact type (Lance Thomas and Louis Amdunson) already signed. It definitely does not seem like Jackson is looking for the next Hassan Whiteside or some such guy and is just looking for low ceilinged solid guys to inundate this organization with. Me? If I actually trusted my player development staff, I'd be looking for that high risk high reward type (which neither Saunders nor Atkins is by any stretch) and saying, you guys get something from this.

Honestly, I don't get the point of either signing...definitely not Atkins.

Well, I'd agree with you that Atkins isn't much of a prospect. However, if you ARE going to bring a body to training camp, bring in one that plays tough D, is a good character guy, and who might stick. Again, if the Knicks are trying to build a culture, and the culture is of hardworking players who play D and have relatively complete games (well, maybe not Atkins) then you should do it with players 1-20, which includes players like Atkins.

That culture got the Knicks 17 wins last season. At the end of the day you still need talent. If these great soldier types had any real NBA talent the chances of finding one, much less two is super slim. Compound it with the fact that Atkins is a PF whose game projects to Lance Thomas and Lou Amundson level. The Knicks already have (over) paid Thomas and Amundsen. Under no realistic scenario would Atkins have a shot at making this team. That means the Knicks WILL be cutting him before the start of the season. Cutting him means no contract meaning Atkins can go anywhere (ie. Europe, China) to play. He doesn't have to take the 25k salary to play in the D League. Had the Knicks not already had Thomas and Amundsen signed, then sure there might be a shot for Atkins.

If I'm to understand the "high ceiling" guy, isn't that most likely to be a talented player who has a bit of a bad reputation as either lazy or a knucklehead, but the hope is that either the rep isn't truly deserved (rare) or the player changes (rarer still).

And the reality is that the chances are still better than Atkins making the team (again see Thomas and Amundsen as well as Atkins low ceiling).

I'm going to disagree that Wes Saunders is low ceiling. I think getting a guy from the Ivy league is one of the few ways to get a player who was overlooked. And not like I expect Saunders to become a star or a starter. But he has a chance to be as good as Galloway. Maybe better. Who knows. Then that makes Galloway expendable, maybe in a trade. If both are kept, both are cheap.

Teams have shown explicitly that they value character and are both emphasis given both drafting and signing such players. Given the greater swing for guys of this type, why was he: a) not drafted, b) stand out in SL play, c) chased by any other team that we've heard? He does at least make more sense than Atkins, I'll give him that much.

I like what the Knicks are doing with the end of the bench, lets say players 11-15. First off, really only the top 9 players play. Maybe the 10th guy gets 5 minutes here and there. Players 11 and 12 are your emergency/injury spares. Back in the day, 11 and 12 were usually a 3rd string center and 3rd pg, attesting to height matters and helps to have somewhat who can competently bring the ball up, under pressure.

Then why bother even signing any players for 12-15? whats to like if 12-15 is pointless?

Due to expanding roster, there is no reason that players 13,14 and 15 shouldn't be development guys. Only the most desparate veteran would be happy sitting in a suit or the dleague for the extra dollars. Others may become malcontent. Best that these slots are filled with hard workers, with some potential, who are HAPPY to be there. I think that matters.

Talent is what you look to develop. More talent, more "stuff" to develop. Less talent, less "stuff" to develop. Adding vets that may not play major minutes but that could help in the locker room and provide leadership would make more sense if they don't feel the need to chance high upside guys.

I like the approach so far. Galloway, Thanasis, Early, Ledo, Wear, Hernangomez (stashed). It's a pipeline, hopefully, of young, CHEAP, end of the bench talent.

? Keeping Wear would make signing Atkins even more pointless. Keeping Ledo would make Saunders even more pointless.

Otherwise, you have to shell out more for some retread, so there is some cost effectiveness with this approach. And throwing enough, you know, at the wall, maybe one or two the guys pans out to be a little better than replacement level.

What retread? NBA vets? The Knicks are already over the cap. The NBA pays for a portion of a vets minimum salary that adding a rookie FA to a minimum will not do so they aren't really spending any more money.

In any event, a team always wants to improve, even if incrementally. If somehow Atkins turns out to be a little better than Lance Thomas, cool, drop Thomas, this year or next. Maybe Saunders pushes Ledo, who should be pushing at Galloway. I like Galloway, but if Ledo or Saunders wind up being better, I would lose zero sleep seeing Galloway dealt or released at some point.

And if I can win lotto I'd be set but...

This is on top of Porzingis and Grant, who we expect to be more "blue chip" in terms of youth.

Has nothing to do with anything.

[Fat Kat]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojyahoonba/status/625354209651781632[/tweet]

[siar617]

Grant
Durant
Carmelo
Porzingis
Lopez

We"ll have the biggest starting 5 in the NBA

Durant isnt coming here btw keep dreaming.

This except that last comment

[thebuzzardman]

While I can understand the Knicks wanting to bring in hard working physical guys, I don't see this as anything more than giving the other players that might actually make this team a meat puppet to battle in training camp. It's basically $100-200k of guaranteed money (what I'm guessing is the guaranteed portion of the deal...it's basically what the guarantee for Ledo was for this upcoming season) to rent him for the summer (minimally) and then put him on the D-League team for the upcoming D-League season to help the W Knicks play better. I don't see him making this team at all this season with basically more proven players of the same exact type (Lance Thomas and Louis Amdunson) already signed. It definitely does not seem like Jackson is looking for the next Hassan Whiteside or some such guy and is just looking for low ceilinged solid guys to inundate this organization with. Me? If I actually trusted my player development staff, I'd be looking for that high risk high reward type (which neither Saunders nor Atkins is by any stretch) and saying, you guys get something from this.

Honestly, I don't get the point of either signing...definitely not Atkins.

Well, I'd agree with you that Atkins isn't much of a prospect. However, if you ARE going to bring a body to training camp, bring in one that plays tough D, is a good character guy, and who might stick. Again, if the Knicks are trying to build a culture, and the culture is of hardworking players who play D and have relatively complete games (well, maybe not Atkins) then you should do it with players 1-20, which includes players like Atkins.

That culture got the Knicks 17 wins last season. At the end of the day you still need talent. If these great soldier types had any real NBA talent the chances of finding one, much less two is super slim. Compound it with the fact that Atkins is a PF whose game projects to Lance Thomas and Lou Amundson level. The Knicks already have (over) paid Thomas and Amundsen. Under no realistic scenario would Atkins have a shot at making this team. That means the Knicks WILL be cutting him before the start of the season. Cutting him means no contract meaning Atkins can go anywhere (ie. Europe, China) to play. He doesn't have to take the 25k salary to play in the D League. Had the Knicks not already had Thomas and Amundsen signed, then sure there might be a shot for Atkins.

If I'm to understand the "high ceiling" guy, isn't that most likely to be a talented player who has a bit of a bad reputation as either lazy or a knucklehead, but the hope is that either the rep isn't truly deserved (rare) or the player changes (rarer still).

And the reality is that the chances are still better than Atkins making the team (again see Thomas and Amundsen as well as Atkins low ceiling).

I'm going to disagree that Wes Saunders is low ceiling. I think getting a guy from the Ivy league is one of the few ways to get a player who was overlooked. And not like I expect Saunders to become a star or a starter. But he has a chance to be as good as Galloway. Maybe better. Who knows. Then that makes Galloway expendable, maybe in a trade. If both are kept, both are cheap.

Teams have shown explicitly that they value character and are both emphasis given both drafting and signing such players. Given the greater swing for guys of this type, why was he: a) not drafted, b) stand out in SL play, c) chased by any other team that we've heard? He does at least make more sense than Atkins, I'll give him that much.

I like what the Knicks are doing with the end of the bench, lets say players 11-15. First off, really only the top 9 players play. Maybe the 10th guy gets 5 minutes here and there. Players 11 and 12 are your emergency/injury spares. Back in the day, 11 and 12 were usually a 3rd string center and 3rd pg, attesting to height matters and helps to have somewhat who can competently bring the ball up, under pressure.

Then why bother even signing any players for 12-15? whats to like if 12-15 is pointless?

Due to expanding roster, there is no reason that players 13,14 and 15 shouldn't be development guys. Only the most desparate veteran would be happy sitting in a suit or the dleague for the extra dollars. Others may become malcontent. Best that these slots are filled with hard workers, with some potential, who are HAPPY to be there. I think that matters.

Talent is what you look to develop. More talent, more "stuff" to develop. Less talent, less "stuff" to develop. Adding vets that may not play major minutes but that could help in the locker room and provide leadership would make more sense if they don't feel the need to chance high upside guys.

I like the approach so far. Galloway, Thanasis, Early, Ledo, Wear, Hernangomez (stashed). It's a pipeline, hopefully, of young, CHEAP, end of the bench talent.

? Keeping Wear would make signing Atkins even more pointless. Keeping Ledo would make Saunders even more pointless.

Otherwise, you have to shell out more for some retread, so there is some cost effectiveness with this approach. And throwing enough, you know, at the wall, maybe one or two the guys pans out to be a little better than replacement level.

What retread? NBA vets? The Knicks are already over the cap. The NBA pays for a portion of a vets minimum salary that adding a rookie FA to a minimum will not do so they aren't really spending any more money.

In any event, a team always wants to improve, even if incrementally. If somehow Atkins turns out to be a little better than Lance Thomas, cool, drop Thomas, this year or next. Maybe Saunders pushes Ledo, who should be pushing at Galloway. I like Galloway, but if Ledo or Saunders wind up being better, I would lose zero sleep seeing Galloway dealt or released at some point.

And if I can win lotto I'd be set but...

This is on top of Porzingis and Grant, who we expect to be more "blue chip" in terms of youth.

Has nothing to do with anything.

You seemed to either miss a lot of my points, or at least be determined to oversimplify some of my statements in order to prove your point.

All I'm really saying is the signings aren't that bad, maybe a guy or two will pan out. I think they could use another big, but you really think there is THAT much more out there to sign, in terms of vets, and that those vets would be willing to not dress for like 90"% of the season? I"m not arguing the Knicks don't need a talent upgrade in general, but they did that already. Or I should say, they took a first step in that regards (Quinn, Affalo, Lopez, Grant, Porzingis) but of course probably 3 out of 5 of those positions, if not all 5, Knicks will want to upgrade at some point. I think this at least addresses your point of "the culture got the Knicks 17 wins".
Come on. That was WITH Bargs, with broken Amare, with Melo hurt, with chucking JR, with half crap Shump.

But the point wasn't to talk about the talent level of the starters, just what expectations are of what to do with the end of the roster spots.

And not sure if you were being deliberately obtuse, I just listed Ware as one of the young project players the Knicks tried out the last TWO seasons. Yes, of course there is no point for him if Atkins sticks. Actually, there isn't much point for Atkins if Thanasis sticks. I just see this as the Knicks filling out the summer league roster and hedging if one of them turns out better. Something I"m sure most teams do. Same for listing Galloway and Ledo and Saunders. Probably only one makes the team, to include the DLeague team. Maybe two of three, but then someone like Thanasis drops etc.

Regarding why Saunders was passed over. Who knows. Why was Whiteside passed over? Whyn was Lin passed over? What caused teams to shy away from Galloway? All those guys mentioned are NBA roster players. Note that I don't think anyone is finding Scottie Pippen amongst the undrafted free agents, just a decent player, young and cheap. And by decent, we are talking about someone who is occupying the like the 12th -15th roster spot.

Well, I'll bite. Please list the vets available who will make the Knicks better. I think for them to have "a locker room presence" they still have to be able to actually play, even a little, for the "young guys" to listen, so I'd think that removes Elton Brand and Shawn Marion right away.

[blanko]

I think a vet big would be good

[NoLayupRule]

I think a vet big would be good

Sweetney is available

[El Poochio]

I think a vet big would be good

Sweetney is available

FOOK ME WTF IS THAT THE MVP AWARD HE IS RECEIVING CUZ HE ATE THE REST OF THE LEAGUE ??

[knickstape21]

Guess we aren't interested in signing Daniel Hackett?

I to hope they invite one more developmental big to camp.

[3toheadmelo]

this thon maker guy looks reaaaally good. wish we had our draft pick for next year if we suck this year

[El Poochio]

this thon maker guy looks reaaaally good. wish we had our draft pick for next year if we suck this year

Yeah, he is gonna make a thon of money in this league

[thebuzzardman]

I think a vet big would be good

Sweetney is available

The picture is a little blurry. Is that statue dribbling a ball or sitting down to take a dump?

I think it's the 2nd, and Sweetney is getting an award for largest sh*t taken during the season.

[HarthorneWingo]

this thon maker guy looks reaaaally good. wish we had our draft pick for next year if we suck this year

Yeah, he is gonna make a thon of money in this league

Seriously, that was a good one.

[SARGO127]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojyahoonba/status/625354209651781632[/tweet]

I would have taken Shabazz for a future 2nd.