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Around the nba part 6

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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1661 » by Brooklyn_Yards » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:56 am

KnicksGod wrote:
fdr2012 wrote:
Brooklyn_Yards wrote:Lins contract for them is 8.3 8.3 8.3 they could find a taker easily.


Even @ 8.3M PER it's a bad contract, but when you trade him, it becomes $5M and $15M and that's a horrible contract. Lin is untradable.



No, it'd be $8.3M per on a trade. He's definitely a trade asset.

Again, people need to take the long view and stop monitoring people's value game to game. He has had a bunch of quiet games very recently but he's had a really good second half and is a pure PG who can score.

IMO Lin is not a pure pg he's a scoring PG with good court vision. He's more likely to average 25 points a game than 10 assist because he can score the ball from anywhere and get to the line. That's why when he's next to other scorers Harden,Melo, and even Parsons his Fg numbers go down and his assist stay about the same.
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1662 » by NYKMentality85 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:00 am

KnicksGod wrote:
NYKMentality85 wrote:
Brooklyn_Yards wrote: Lins contract for them is 8.3 8.3 8.3 they could find a taker easily.


Wrong. After this season it's $5,225,000 and $14,898,938. No team would ever touch that contract. Lin getting damn near 15 million the year after next is laughable and will end up holding Houston's franchise back.



No it's $8.3M forevermore. It was only $15M if we signed him. That's gone forever. Lin gets paid on that $15M in the third year, but his contract is spread evenly for cap purposes.


http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

It doesn't appear like Lin's contract is spread out...

Even if so and I'm wrong, I still believe his contract of 8.3 million per is laughable. Especially since it was due to a handful of game "Linsanity" which has yet to return and may never again be re-lived. Houston paid for Linsanity and in return, they only received Jeremy Jin. But yea, I don't wanna turn this into a Jeremy Lin thread I just believe come postseason play he'll choke against elite NBA defenses as he did against Miami last season. Take tonight for example, couldn't handle the pressure of LAC's defense. 4/10, 3 assists and 6 turnovers. Had his chance to shine without Harden but yet still couldn't. Chris Paul lit his ass up, which is the difference of a great PG going up against a below average one.

On a side note, it's a silly question, but does anyone know who leads the NBA in jump balls won? Like, which Center has the best percentage of jump balls won? I only ask because me and my uncle always ask each other sports questions that's no common. I'll admit, he stomped the living crap out of me with this question.
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1663 » by K_ick_God » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:04 am

NYKMentality85 wrote:
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

It doesn't appear like Lin's contract is spread out...

Even if so and I'm wrong, I still believe his contract of 8.3 million per is laughable. Especially since it was due to a handful of game "Linsanity" which has yet to return and may never again be re-lived. Houston paid for Linsanity and in return, they only received Jeremy Jin. But yea, I don't wanna turn this into a Jeremy Lin thread I just believe come postseason play he'll choke against elite NBA defenses as he did against Miami last season. Take tonight for example, couldn't handle the pressure of LAC's defense. 4/10, 3 assists and 6 turnovers. Had his chance to shine without Harden but yet still couldn't. Chris Paul lit his ass up, which is the difference of a great PG going up against a below average one.

On a side note, it's a silly question, but does anyone know who leads the NBA in jump balls won? Like, which Center has the best percentage of jump balls won? I only ask because me and my uncle always ask each other sports questions that's no common. I'll admit, he stomped the living crap out of me with this question.



Hoopshype is wrong.
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1664 » by Brooklyn_Yards » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:06 am

NYKMentality85 wrote:
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

It doesn't appear like Lin's contract is spread out...

Even if so and I'm wrong, I still believe his contract of 8.3 million per is laughable. Especially since it was due to a handful of game "Linsanity" which has yet to return and may never again be re-lived. Houston paid for Linsanity and in return, they only received Jeremy Jin. But yea, I don't wanna turn this into a Jeremy Lin thread I just believe come postseason play he'll choke against elite NBA defenses as he did against Miami last season. Take tonight for example, couldn't handle the pressure of LAC's defense. 4/10, 3 assists and 6 turnovers. Had his chance to shine without Harden but yet still couldn't. Chris Paul lit his ass up, which is the difference of a great PG going up against a below average one.

On a side note, it's a silly question, but does anyone know who leads the NBA in jump balls won? Like, which Center has the best percentage of jump balls won? I only ask because me and my uncle always ask each other sports questions that's no common. I'll admit, he stomped the living crap out of me with this question.


One of the only places to go for factual salaries

http://data.shamsports.com/content/page ... ockets.jsp
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1665 » by K_ick_God » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:06 am

Brooklyn_Yards wrote:IMO Lin is not a pure pg he's a scoring PG with good court vision. He's more likely to average 25 points a game than 10 assist because he can score the ball from anywhere and get to the line. That's why when he's next to other scorers Harden,Melo, and even Parsons his Fg numbers go down and his assist stay about the same.




Fair analysis.

But I'd add that he doesn't just see the floor well -- he understands tempo and he reads defenses. He studies the game and knows personnel & matchups.

He does turn it over a lot still. But he takes some chances and those lead to flow and easy scores.
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1666 » by Brooklyn_Yards » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:09 am

KnicksGod wrote:
Brooklyn_Yards wrote:IMO Lin is not a pure pg he's a scoring PG with good court vision. He's more likely to average 25 points a game than 10 assist because he can score the ball from anywhere and get to the line. That's why when he's next to other scorers Harden,Melo, and even Parsons his Fg numbers go down and his assist stay about the same.




Fair analysis.

But I'd add that he doesn't just see the floor well -- he understands tempo and he reads defenses. He studies the game and knows personnel & matchups.

He does turn it over a lot still. But he takes some chances and those lead to flow and easy scores.

KG I hear ya we coulda had Felton/Lin to start and Kidd/Prigs off the bench :lol: :(
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1667 » by K_ick_God » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:11 am

Brooklyn_Yards wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:
Brooklyn_Yards wrote:IMO Lin is not a pure pg he's a scoring PG with good court vision. He's more likely to average 25 points a game than 10 assist because he can score the ball from anywhere and get to the line. That's why when he's next to other scorers Harden,Melo, and even Parsons his Fg numbers go down and his assist stay about the same.




Fair analysis.

But I'd add that he doesn't just see the floor well -- he understands tempo and he reads defenses. He studies the game and knows personnel & matchups.

He does turn it over a lot still. But he takes some chances and those lead to flow and easy scores.

KG I hear ya we coulda had Felton/Lin to start and Kidd/Prigs off the bench :lol: :(



Yup.

Definitely don't buy that Felton was coming anyway, but it was theoretically possible anyway.
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1668 » by Quick Kick » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:11 am

SOOOOOOO in other more pertinant news, the Nets blow.
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1669 » by Brooklyn_Yards » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:21 am

KnicksGod wrote:
Yup.

Definitely don't buy that Felton was coming anyway, but it was theoretically possible anyway.


The Felton news came before Jlin was even offered a contract, this beat writer Zachary Horst reported talking to Felton about coming back at Dolans BBQ and no one believed him then a few days later Felton was traded. The plan was always to have 3-4 PG's it just didn't pan out with Lin going back for more money and us not offering what we could've.
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1670 » by NYKMentality85 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:24 am

Brooklyn_Yards wrote: One of the only places to go for factual salaries

http://data.shamsports.com/content/page ... ockets.jsp


Thanks B_Y. Really like that site. Just bookmarked it.
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1671 » by NYKMentality85 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:27 am

Well, thank god it didn't happen then guys. Having Lin's contract on the roster would prevent us from having any chance whatsoever in keeping J.R long term. I could be wrong on that one too, but I don't see how we could keep Felton, Lin and J.R Smith and I take J.R over Lin without second thought.
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1672 » by Brooklyn_Yards » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:32 am

NYKMentality85 wrote:Well, thank god it didn't happen then guys. Having Lin's contract on the roster would prevent us from having any chance whatsoever in keeping J.R long term. I could be wrong on that one too, but I don't see how we could keep Felton, Lin and J.R Smith and I take J.R over Lin without second thought.


Keeping Jlin and getting Felton/Kidd would've prevented us from getting Camby and I wouldn't be mad at that :lol: Hindsight is 20/20 both teams benefited. I liked Lin when he was here, still like him and hopes there's a chance he can come back in 3 years.
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1673 » by NYKMentality85 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:35 am

Silly question but does anyone know which Center has the best percentage of jump balls won?
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1674 » by ibraheim718 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:36 am

Moving sucks...

Other PG's making roughly 8mil per... George Hill, Mike Conley starting next year, Monta Ellis used to pretend to be a PG he's making 11per, Beno Udrih just made 7.2per, Jameer Nelson, Goran Dragic, Mo williams just made 8.5.

Lin was in a unique situation being an free agent who wasn't drafted and who wasn't on a rookie contract and Houston was in a unique situation having let their two viable point guard options in Lowry and Dragic go and with an already established marketing pipeline to China.. and being the team that felt they made a mistake by letting him go. In a perfect world with shrew management and better talent evaluation Lin's contract situation should've never got to the summer free agency period.
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1675 » by spaceballer » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:43 am

HakeemKnicks wrote:
Brooklyn_Yards wrote:
fdr2012 wrote:There's no way to move Lin. He's too expensive, particularly after his first season, and the marketing boost is hardly as big as people thought. Houston is stuck with Lin until the end of his contract.

Lins contract for them is 8.3 8.3 8.3 they could find a taker easily.

because of the stretch provision. not many teams have that luxury.


The stretch provision has nothing to do with the 8.3/8.3/8.3. Any team that trades for him will inherit the same contract. The stretch provision is only if a team chooses to waive him and spread out his remaining cap hit over extra years to reduce the burden.

If they trade him this off-season, the new team (even if the Knicks, not that that will ever happen) would inherit Lin's contract and have a cap hit of 8.3M/8.3M for his final two years, but with actual payout of 5M/15M.

Any team that trades for him will inherit the same contract structure as the Rockets that Lin signed for a cap hit of 8.3M/8.3M/8.3M with payout of about 5M/5M/15M. Even the knicks would have inherited the 8.3M/8.3M/8.3M cap hit structure if they had traded for him (not that they would) after he signed with the Rockets (after the usual trade moratorium for newly signed FA's).

The only chance of the contract structure being a cap hit of 5M/5M/15M was if the Knicks matched. Once they declined to match, the contract cap hit was fixed at 8.3M/8.3M/8.3M. Any team that trades for him (even the knicks) will inherit that 8.3M/8.3M/8.3M cap hit structure (along with the actual payout structure of 5M/5M/15M).

The Stretch provision, and whether a team is able to utilize it, is irrelevant. It only comes into play if a team wishes to waive him and spread the remaining cap hit over even more years. Such as if he was a bust after the Knicks matched and they wanted to waive him in order to not be hit by the large final year tax bill by utilizing the stretch provision. (This is why many said their declining to match wasn't entirely because of money, since the stretch provision gave them options to mitigate that if he turned into a bust).

The Stretch provision still remains available to the Rockets or any subsequent team that trades for him if they wish to waive him and spread his cap hit (and thus reducing any attendant luxury tax implications) over more years so that it is even less than 8.3M if he busts.

I think it would be hard to trade him in his final year due to the disparity between his cap hit of 8.3M and his actual payout of 15M. But they could possibly find takers if they wanted to trade him this off-season for a remaining caphit of 8.3M/8.3M and a remaining payout of 5M/15M. Teams will trade for the potential and whatever cachet remains from Linsanity, especially since he's shown flashes to prove last year wasn't a one-hit wonder fluke and that he can at least be serviceable with consistent starter minutes, and he's clearly not at his peak yet. Many young players who enter the league without a consistent shot will develop one over time, since it's the easiest skill to develop when all that is needed is hard work and repetitions to build muscle memory. Once that happens, the game will open up even more for his drives. So I think teams would be willing to trade for Lin this off-season based on growth potential, proven serviceability (even if not Linsanity megawatt at the moment) handling starter minutes, and with the more manageable averaged payout/caphit disparity, but not in his final season when the payout/caphit disparity becomes more insurmountable.

I don't think the Rockets will trade him unless it's for a clear upgrade, considering what happened the last time they let him go and what happened on the Knicks. Especially when he is clearly not at the ceiling of his growth yet. The other guys they let go were all in their prime/peak or either at or near their ceiling for potential like Scola, Dragic, Patterson. Or if they could get a clear upgrade like Lamb for Harden. I don't think Morey will let Lin go until he's sure Lin has peaked or is near his ceiling, unless a clear upgrade superstar offer like the Harden deal comes along. He doesn't want egg on his face twice in a row if Lin becomes Linsanity again. Lin hasn't reached his peak, and what he needs is the easiest skill to develop, a more consistent outside shot, where there is a history of many pgs who have followed that development path from inconsistent/no outside shot to a serviceable outside threat. Once he has a consistent outside shot (I don't think he'll ever be Novak level sharpshooter, but all his needs is decent consistency with a serviceable outside threat), it acts as a force multiplier to open up the lanes for his already formidable driving game (one of the quickest first steps, and I think there was a stat somewhere saying his drives are on par with Toney Parker for creating points per play or something).

To recap: Any team that trades for Lin will inherit same contract terms and caphit/payout as the Rockets. Morey can find takers for Lin this off-season with 2 yrs left on the contract. He won't be able to find takers in only the final year when the caphit/payout difference is so large, but he can easily with 2 yrs left. He won't trade Lin unless it's for a clear superstar upgrade, or until he's sure Lin won't develop an outside shot and become Linsanity on another team.

This means Lin will likely be on the Rockets for the entire contract (Despite takers, Morey won't trade him this off-season due to fear of Linsanity Schadenfreude repeat, unless it's for a superstar upgrade. And lack of takers in final season due to pay/cap-hit disparity). After 3yrs, Lin will either re-sign with Rockets or sign with another team, depending on his development (Rockets won't want him if he's a bust or may only be willing to re-sign him for less), cap-management issues (Rockets may not be able to pay him if they have to spend too much cash on Harden/Parson with a raise/Asik in same contract boat as Jeremy Lin/whoever else is eating up space), and whether he can be lured by another team (he's probably got a soft spot for his hometown Warriors even after everything that's happened).

For better or worse, whether he turns into a superstar or a bust, I see him finishing out his contract in Houston and becoming a UFA in 3 yrs. How much he has developed would determine where he goes from there as he enters his prime and becomes who he becomes. It will certainly be an interesting journey to watch that development and the ups and downs, since it started with Linsanity on the Knicks, a magical time in franchise history. He was one of ours, something that belonged to New Yorkers, a homegrown diamond in the rough that happened here, whose development and discovery we NY'ers can take credit for, and not a mercenary hired from another team. What's that phrase on the inside of those Knicks jerseys?

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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1676 » by Tron Carter » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:49 am

thanks for clearing that up for me space
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1677 » by ibraheim718 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:52 am

The one and only Spaceballer FTW... good job.
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1678 » by Bravery » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:47 am

spaceballer wrote:-Wall of awesomeness-


That post ruled
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1679 » by fdr2012 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:49 am

KnicksGod wrote:No, it'd be $8.3M per on a trade. He's definitely a trade asset.

Again, people need to take the long view and stop monitoring people's value game to game. He has had a bunch of quiet games very recently but he's had a really good second half and is a pure PG who can score.


How is he an asset @ $8.3M? How can he be an asset when Dragic gets paid less? Lin is way overpaid for his production.
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Re: Around the nba part 6 

Post#1680 » by j4remi » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:07 am

ibraheim718 wrote:Moving sucks...

Other PG's making roughly 8mil per... George Hill, Mike Conley starting next year, Monta Ellis used to pretend to be a PG he's making 11per, Beno Udrih just made 7.2per, Jameer Nelson, Goran Dragic, Mo williams just made 8.5.

Lin was in a unique situation being an free agent who wasn't drafted and who wasn't on a rookie contract and Houston was in a unique situation having let their two viable point guard options in Lowry and Dragic go and with an already established marketing pipeline to China.. and being the team that felt they made a mistake by letting him go. In a perfect world with shrew management and better talent evaluation Lin's contract situation should've never got to the summer free agency period.


On that list, I'd probably take Conley and Dragic over Lin but that's it. His contract isn't terrible at 8.3 per...at that 15 milli rate the Knicks woulda been stuck with, it's a lot uglier. I don't think Lin is a trade asset though, thanks to the new CBA...His contract isn't long enough to think upside in a deal and his numbers don't warrant the pay yet. They will in due time...just not yet.

Dragic though...that kid is a WAY better than I thought he was. I've watched a solid number of Suns games thanks to betting and the kid is extremely talented.
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