Trades and Transactions Thread - 2025 Season Discussion

[Jalen Bluntson]

Lots of chat right now about whether/if the Nuggets should trade Jokic and/or if he's getting tired of carrying so hard.

I don't see how the Knicks can make a realistic bid for him, but what about Brunson and Hart for Jokic .... (and yes, there has to be throw ins to other teams to make the money work, but it's nothing egregious - like half a mil)? How much draft capital would the Knicks have to include for that to work?

Jokic
KAT
OG
Bridges
Deuce

Here it doesn't really matter if the Knicks don't have a first-string PG, ldo.

I'm for any trade that gets Brunson off the Knicks. Fans here don't deserve him.

What does Anthony Davis make? Do their salaries match?

Brunson will retire a knick and you will love it. But I agree that some knick fans are taking him for granted already. Some of the criticism is ridiculous but it is a tiny minority. The real question is not about Brunson but about KAT----can the roster be constructed in a way that two weak defensive links can be hidden?

KAT is a better defender than Randle for the most part . Last season we had JB/JR with DDV/OG/Shart and were unstoppable. Where's the difference? Thibs can't coach without his rim protector. That much is clear. IMO DDV is a better freelance player than Mikal. Not a better overall player though. More grit as well. We miss that.

This year we have JB/KAT with Mikal/Hart/OG. Arguably a better team just not a Thibs built team. Now with Mitch back, if he can get up to starter level play again, would be a much more efficient offense and better defense on the wings with a rim protector to run Thibs scheme.

JB/Mikal/OG/KAT/Mitch is what we need for Thibs to do his thing apparently. Hoping we get that by the time the playoffs roll around. Tick tock muthafuggas!!

[HopelessKnick]

Looking at the league's elite teams, not just today but also in the past, I have to say that we deserve to be where we are right now (not contending). If you look at all the true title contenders, 95% of them had a good part of their rotation contributing massively while being homegrown:

Giannis, Middleton, Tatum, Brown, James, Irving, Jokic, Murray, MPJ, Curry, Thompson, Green etc. ---Today we only have Mitch and Deuce as homegrown talent. Both useful players but in reality still a small part of the roster. Players like Duren or especially J-Williams were obtainable but we traded away those picks. That's the biggest downside with Leon/Thibs approach----putting all our eggs in the trade basket. I still think we'll need to integrate 1-2 of our homegrown guys into the rotation as significant contributors....otherwise I see us locked into our current position. I can only hope between Kolek, Dadiet and Hukporti we can find one or two of them that can develop into real good bench contributors next season as I don't see us being able to significantly upgrade the bench via the trade route. Good bench players make usually 10+mill. in salary and we don't have the contracts outside our core players.

You are naming HOF/all star level homegrown players. Many were high lottery picks.

I agree with the main point that we punted too many picks recently but, we didn't build through the draft in that sense. For some reason we're better drafting outside the lottery. Deuce/Mitch/Grimes/IQ was a great couple of drafts. None in the lottery and two weren't even in the first round. Hitting on picks wherever you land them is not as easy as it sounds either. We aren't the only team missing on players in the draft by any stretch of the imagination. Hindsight is 20/20.

We traded all of our youth that we did draft for OG/Precious/KAT and we sent out all of our remaining picks for Mikal. That's a great group of talent right there even if we didn't draft them. We overpaid for Mikal in terms of picks but, we sent them garbage players. It doesn't quite balance out but, are any of the players we traded for Mikal even playing in the NBA anymore?

The Grimes trade was terrible but, Thibs was done with him. That's a problem. We wasted another year on Sims and let Grimes get away. I think the HC influenced those decisions.

Brunson/Mikal/Hart/OG/KAT is the best starting 5 we have had since Ewing was here basically. Not mad that we didn't draft any of them. It really doesn't matter. The bigger problem is how the HC runs things. It's my opinion he is the reason we skip drafts and trade back every year. He's simply not gonna develop a young team. They will have to click right away or be traded for vets.

I think Mitch and Deuce are great homegrown players anyway. They are a big part of what we do as well. Injuries have been the biggest issue there. Mainly for Mitch but, Deuce has had his own injuries every year too causing him to miss time.

Let me rephrase it: Players we could have realistically drafted (got picked after us or only 1-2 spots ahead on available picks): Sengun, Eason, J.Williams, Herb Jones, Trey Murphy, Duren, Kessler, Jalen Johnson etc......I know it is not always easy to pick the right player but simply punting those picks in the 10-20 range was a mistake. Literally, if we had drafted just 1 out of the above 8 guys we would already be in a much better position as we would have at least another very strong frontcourt player (Sengun/Duren/Kessler) or a nice 3-D wing. It may have also prevented us from throwing 5 FRPs at Bridges. When you start punting all those picks it starts to give me the "this is not the right way to go about things" vibe. We were a lottery team when we traded the Duren pick and didn't have any realistic path to immediate contention. We could have easily developed a good talent for 2-3 years and reaped the benefits now. We weren't a team on the verge looking for that one final player to push us over the top. Today, if you leave out our core players, it will be virtually impossible to get such a player via trade or draft (as most our picks for the foreseeable future are going to be in the late late first round).

[Jalen Bluntson]

Looking at the league's elite teams, not just today but also in the past, I have to say that we deserve to be where we are right now (not contending). If you look at all the true title contenders, 95% of them had a good part of their rotation contributing massively while being homegrown:

Giannis, Middleton, Tatum, Brown, James, Irving, Jokic, Murray, MPJ, Curry, Thompson, Green etc. ---Today we only have Mitch and Deuce as homegrown talent. Both useful players but in reality still a small part of the roster. Players like Duren or especially J-Williams were obtainable but we traded away those picks. That's the biggest downside with Leon/Thibs approach----putting all our eggs in the trade basket. I still think we'll need to integrate 1-2 of our homegrown guys into the rotation as significant contributors....otherwise I see us locked into our current position. I can only hope between Kolek, Dadiet and Hukporti we can find one or two of them that can develop into real good bench contributors next season as I don't see us being able to significantly upgrade the bench via the trade route. Good bench players make usually 10+mill. in salary and we don't have the contracts outside our core players.

You are naming HOF/all star level homegrown players. Many were high lottery picks.

I agree with the main point that we punted too many picks recently but, we didn't build through the draft in that sense. For some reason we're better drafting outside the lottery. Deuce/Mitch/Grimes/IQ was a great couple of drafts. None in the lottery and two weren't even in the first round. Hitting on picks wherever you land them is not as easy as it sounds either. We aren't the only team missing on players in the draft by any stretch of the imagination. Hindsight is 20/20.

We traded all of our youth that we did draft for OG/Precious/KAT and we sent out all of our remaining picks for Mikal. That's a great group of talent right there even if we didn't draft them. We overpaid for Mikal in terms of picks but, we sent them garbage players. It doesn't quite balance out but, are any of the players we traded for Mikal even playing in the NBA anymore?

The Grimes trade was terrible but, Thibs was done with him. That's a problem. We wasted another year on Sims and let Grimes get away. I think the HC influenced those decisions.

Brunson/Mikal/Hart/OG/KAT is the best starting 5 we have had since Ewing was here basically. Not mad that we didn't draft any of them. It really doesn't matter. The bigger problem is how the HC runs things. It's my opinion he is the reason we skip drafts and trade back every year. He's simply not gonna develop a young team. They will have to click right away or be traded for vets.

I think Mitch and Deuce are great homegrown players anyway. They are a big part of what we do as well. Injuries have been the biggest issue there. Mainly for Mitch but, Deuce has had his own injuries every year too causing him to miss time.

Let me rephrase it: Players we could have realistically drafted (got picked after us or only 1-2 spots ahead on available picks): Sengun, Eason, J.Williams, Herb Jones, Trey Murphy, Duren, Kessler, Jalen Johnson etc......I know it is not always easy to pick the right player but simply punting those picks in the 10-20 range was a mistake. Literally, if we had drafted just 1 out of the above 8 guys we would already be in a much better position as we would have at least another very strong frontcourt player (Sengun/Duren/Kessler) or a nice 3-D wing. It may have also prevented us from throwing 5 FRPs at Bridges. When you start punting all those picks it starts to give me the "this is not the right way to go about things" vibe. We were a lottery team when we traded the Duren pick and didn't have any realistic path to immediate contention. We could have easily developed a good talent for 2-3 years and reaped the benefits now. We weren't a team on the verge looking for that one final player to push us over the top. Today, if you leave out our core players, it will be virtually impossible to get such a player via trade or draft (as most our picks for the foreseeable future are going to be in the late late first round).

I agree that punting the draft picks was silly. The ones that bother me are the ones we drafted for other teams basically. Duren is one of them for sure. That was a couple of years back and we had Shart and Mitch at the time. So I get their line of thinking even though I disagree.

We have a really good team though. The HC is a dopey fuq but, the roster has plenty of talent and more depth than people believe. Thibs is a problem. More than the picks we let get away IMO. Time to see what his genius coaching looks like with Mitch back...after we get Jalen back and...hoping we don't lose anyone else to injury.

[Besart19]

TJ Warren must be signed… we need an instant offense off the bench

Achiuwa / Tucker
Warren / Tucker
Hart / Dadiet
Deuce / Shamet
Kolek / Payne

[Iron Mantis]

TJ Warren must be signed… we need an instant offense off the bench

Achiuwa / Tucker
Warren / Tucker
Hart / Dadiet
Deuce / Shamet
Kolek / Payne

If Warren isn't coming then they should play Dadiet.

Tucker has no gas left in the tank. Dadiet backup small ball 4. He has some height and a decent wingspan.

[thebuzzardman]

Lots of chat right now about whether/if the Nuggets should trade Jokic and/or if he's getting tired of carrying so hard.

I don't see how the Knicks can make a realistic bid for him, but what about Brunson and Hart for Jokic .... (and yes, there has to be throw ins to other teams to make the money work, but it's nothing egregious - like half a mil)? How much draft capital would the Knicks have to include for that to work?

Jokic
KAT
OG
Bridges
Deuce

Here it doesn't really matter if the Knicks don't have a first-string PG, ldo.

I'm for any trade that gets Brunson off the Knicks. Fans here don't deserve him.

What does Anthony Davis make? Do their salaries match?

Brunson will retire a knick and you will love it. But I agree that some knick fans are taking him for granted already. Some of the criticism is ridiculous but it is a tiny minority. The real question is not about Brunson but about KAT----can the roster be constructed in a way that two weak defensive links can be hidden?

Brunson is a defensiveless cancer that needs to go!

[HopelessKnick]

You are naming HOF/all star level homegrown players. Many were high lottery picks.

I agree with the main point that we punted too many picks recently but, we didn't build through the draft in that sense. For some reason we're better drafting outside the lottery. Deuce/Mitch/Grimes/IQ was a great couple of drafts. None in the lottery and two weren't even in the first round. Hitting on picks wherever you land them is not as easy as it sounds either. We aren't the only team missing on players in the draft by any stretch of the imagination. Hindsight is 20/20.

We traded all of our youth that we did draft for OG/Precious/KAT and we sent out all of our remaining picks for Mikal. That's a great group of talent right there even if we didn't draft them. We overpaid for Mikal in terms of picks but, we sent them garbage players. It doesn't quite balance out but, are any of the players we traded for Mikal even playing in the NBA anymore?

The Grimes trade was terrible but, Thibs was done with him. That's a problem. We wasted another year on Sims and let Grimes get away. I think the HC influenced those decisions.

Brunson/Mikal/Hart/OG/KAT is the best starting 5 we have had since Ewing was here basically. Not mad that we didn't draft any of them. It really doesn't matter. The bigger problem is how the HC runs things. It's my opinion he is the reason we skip drafts and trade back every year. He's simply not gonna develop a young team. They will have to click right away or be traded for vets.

I think Mitch and Deuce are great homegrown players anyway. They are a big part of what we do as well. Injuries have been the biggest issue there. Mainly for Mitch but, Deuce has had his own injuries every year too causing him to miss time.

Let me rephrase it: Players we could have realistically drafted (got picked after us or only 1-2 spots ahead on available picks): Sengun, Eason, J.Williams, Herb Jones, Trey Murphy, Duren, Kessler, Jalen Johnson etc......I know it is not always easy to pick the right player but simply punting those picks in the 10-20 range was a mistake. Literally, if we had drafted just 1 out of the above 8 guys we would already be in a much better position as we would have at least another very strong frontcourt player (Sengun/Duren/Kessler) or a nice 3-D wing. It may have also prevented us from throwing 5 FRPs at Bridges. When you start punting all those picks it starts to give me the "this is not the right way to go about things" vibe. We were a lottery team when we traded the Duren pick and didn't have any realistic path to immediate contention. We could have easily developed a good talent for 2-3 years and reaped the benefits now. We weren't a team on the verge looking for that one final player to push us over the top. Today, if you leave out our core players, it will be virtually impossible to get such a player via trade or draft (as most our picks for the foreseeable future are going to be in the late late first round).

I agree that punting the draft picks was silly. The ones that bother me are the ones we drafted for other teams basically. Duren is one of them for sure. That was a couple of years back and we had Shart and Mitch at the time. So I get their line of thinking even though I disagree.

We have a really good team though. The HC is a dopey fuq but, the roster has plenty of talent and more depth than people believe. Thibs is a problem. More than the picks we let get away IMO. Time to see what his genius coaching looks like with Mitch back...after we get Jalen back and...hoping we don't lose anyone else to injury.

I agree with your sentiment. One small correction though: Keep in mind the draft 2022 was held on the 24th of June and we signed Hartenstein 3 weeks later in free agency. Don't know if there was already some sort of agreement in place at the draft but at that point we only had Mitch under contract.

Also keep in mind that AT THAT point Hartenstein's best season was 8points/5rebounds....he was nowhere near last season's or this seasons level of play. Duren in his rookie season averaged 9points/9rebounds in just 25minutes (while Hartenstein got 5points/7rebounds with us) and then Duren got 14points/12rebounds last season. My point being, management seriously underestimated Duren's ability because they likely thought "He'll be only a rookie".....same with other drafts. And it may be unfair, but I tie some of it to Thibs too for his demand for veterans and unwillingness to develop players. Like you, I do like our roster but feel the upside is somewhat limited. Look at OKC, perfectly put together team and vast assets left. Literally, if OKC plays their cards right they are a dynasty for the upcoming 8-10 years...they should win at least 3-4 titles.

99% of Knick fans would probably trade rosters with OKC and they have like 10!!! tradable FRPs left.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Let me rephrase it: Players we could have realistically drafted (got picked after us or only 1-2 spots ahead on available picks): Sengun, Eason, J.Williams, Herb Jones, Trey Murphy, Duren, Kessler, Jalen Johnson etc......I know it is not always easy to pick the right player but simply punting those picks in the 10-20 range was a mistake. Literally, if we had drafted just 1 out of the above 8 guys we would already be in a much better position as we would have at least another very strong frontcourt player (Sengun/Duren/Kessler) or a nice 3-D wing. It may have also prevented us from throwing 5 FRPs at Bridges. When you start punting all those picks it starts to give me the "this is not the right way to go about things" vibe. We were a lottery team when we traded the Duren pick and didn't have any realistic path to immediate contention. We could have easily developed a good talent for 2-3 years and reaped the benefits now. We weren't a team on the verge looking for that one final player to push us over the top. Today, if you leave out our core players, it will be virtually impossible to get such a player via trade or draft (as most our picks for the foreseeable future are going to be in the late late first round).

I agree that punting the draft picks was silly. The ones that bother me are the ones we drafted for other teams basically. Duren is one of them for sure. That was a couple of years back and we had Shart and Mitch at the time. So I get their line of thinking even though I disagree.

We have a really good team though. The HC is a dopey fuq but, the roster has plenty of talent and more depth than people believe. Thibs is a problem. More than the picks we let get away IMO. Time to see what his genius coaching looks like with Mitch back...after we get Jalen back and...hoping we don't lose anyone else to injury.

I agree with your sentiment. One small correction though: Keep in mind the draft 2022 was held on the 24th of June and we signed Hartenstein 3 weeks later in free agency. Don't know if there was already some sort of agreement in place at the draft but at that point we only had Mitch under contract.

Also keep in mind that AT THAT point Hartenstein's best season was 8points/5rebounds....he was nowhere near last season's or this seasons level of play. Duren in his rookie season averaged 9points/9rebounds in just 25minutes (while Hartenstein got 5points/7rebounds with us) and then Duren got 14points/12rebounds last season. My point being, management seriously underestimated Duren's ability because they likely thought "He'll be only a rookie".....same with other drafts. And it may be unfair, but I tie some of it to Thibs too for his demand for veterans and unwillingness to develop players. Like you, I do like our roster but feel the upside is somewhat limited. Look at OKC, perfectly put together team and vast assets left. Literally, if OKC plays their cards right they are a dynasty for the upcoming 8-10 years...they should win at least 3-4 titles.

99% of Knick fans would probably trade rosters with OKC and they have like 10!!! tradable FRPs left.

This is quite a nice question. Fans of which franchise would not trade rosters with OKC? And how homer-y would that be?

I guess the Celtics and maybe the Cavs fans wouldn't. (Not sure about the Cavs.) Maybe very bullish Magic fans might hesitate?

In the West .. hum, Denver maybe does, Le-Lu-Lakers maybe not, Spurs probably not, Warrior for sure should, but maybe have loyalty to Steph.

What about the Grizz?

Maybe that's about it.

For NYK, you'd grab it and run. If you have a competing level team and/or a top-x all-time player where x is something at most 20, then maybe you hesitate. The Knicks, ldo, don't.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Let me rephrase it: Players we could have realistically drafted (got picked after us or only 1-2 spots ahead on available picks): Sengun, Eason, J.Williams, Herb Jones, Trey Murphy, Duren, Kessler, Jalen Johnson etc......I know it is not always easy to pick the right player but simply punting those picks in the 10-20 range was a mistake. Literally, if we had drafted just 1 out of the above 8 guys we would already be in a much better position as we would have at least another very strong frontcourt player (Sengun/Duren/Kessler) or a nice 3-D wing. It may have also prevented us from throwing 5 FRPs at Bridges. When you start punting all those picks it starts to give me the "this is not the right way to go about things" vibe. We were a lottery team when we traded the Duren pick and didn't have any realistic path to immediate contention. We could have easily developed a good talent for 2-3 years and reaped the benefits now. We weren't a team on the verge looking for that one final player to push us over the top. Today, if you leave out our core players, it will be virtually impossible to get such a player via trade or draft (as most our picks for the foreseeable future are going to be in the late late first round).

I agree that punting the draft picks was silly. The ones that bother me are the ones we drafted for other teams basically. Duren is one of them for sure. That was a couple of years back and we had Shart and Mitch at the time. So I get their line of thinking even though I disagree.

We have a really good team though. The HC is a dopey fuq but, the roster has plenty of talent and more depth than people believe. Thibs is a problem. More than the picks we let get away IMO. Time to see what his genius coaching looks like with Mitch back...after we get Jalen back and...hoping we don't lose anyone else to injury.

I agree with your sentiment. One small correction though: Keep in mind the draft 2022 was held on the 24th of June and we signed Hartenstein 3 weeks later in free agency. Don't know if there was already some sort of agreement in place at the draft but at that point we only had Mitch under contract.

Also keep in mind that AT THAT point Hartenstein's best season was 8points/5rebounds....he was nowhere near last season's or this seasons level of play. Duren in his rookie season averaged 9points/9rebounds in just 25minutes (while Hartenstein got 5points/7rebounds with us) and then Duren got 14points/12rebounds last season. My point being, management seriously underestimated Duren's ability because they likely thought "He'll be only a rookie".....same with other drafts. And it may be unfair, but I tie some of it to Thibs too for his demand for veterans and unwillingness to develop players. Like you, I do like our roster but feel the upside is somewhat limited. Look at OKC, perfectly put together team and vast assets left. Literally, if OKC plays their cards right they are a dynasty for the upcoming 8-10 years...they should win at least 3-4 titles.

99% of Knick fans would probably trade rosters with OKC and they have like 10!!! tradable FRPs left.

Correction noted. However that happened we should have kept Duren. Did that trade facilitate opening up the money for Shart or Donte maybe? I know we did something to that effect IIRC.

I would love to have built the team like OKC did. Oh well.

[WargamesX]

When does Tucker's 10 day expire? It feels like he has been here 10 days to many already

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

When does Tucker's 10 day expire? It feels like he has been here 10 days to many already

Spotrac says he signed on 10th March. If so he should have expired yesterday.

[Richard4444]

Okeke had 14 points and 15 rebounds against the OKC reserves.

[Jalen Bluntson]

When does Tucker's 10 day expire? It feels like he has been here 10 days to many already

Spotrac says he signed on 10th March. If so he should have expired yesterday.

Why on earth is he even here? Thibs 9 man rotation last night was pathetic. 7 minutes for Precious makes it an 8.5 man rotation and it made zero sense. We have a guy who didn't play for two years getting GT minutes over rookies and other bench players now? WTF is going on around here? Dude was here for 9 days and gets playing time. Make it make sense.

We struggle to get to 50-60 bench minutes all year. The next closest in bench minutes is 20-30 minutes a game more! What is his major malfunction with using his bench. He's a clown with it as well. Guys don't play all year and then suddenly they are all on the floor together? WTF is the sense in that? Just a moron. Fire this trash coach amd get someone else.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Okeke had 14 points and 15 rebounds against the OKC reserves.

Thibs would never play him. Thibs sucks.

[Jeffrey]

I'm for any trade that gets Brunson off the Knicks. Fans here don't deserve him.

What does Anthony Davis make? Do their salaries match?

Brunson will retire a knick and you will love it. But I agree that some knick fans are taking him for granted already. Some of the criticism is ridiculous but it is a tiny minority. The real question is not about Brunson but about KAT----can the roster be constructed in a way that two weak defensive links can be hidden?

KAT is a better defender than Randle for the most part . Last season we had JB/JR with DDV/OG/Shart and were unstoppable. Where's the difference? Thibs can't coach without his rim protector. That much is clear. IMO DDV is a better freelance player than Mikal. Not a better overall player though. More grit as well. We miss that.

This year we have JB/KAT with Mikal/Hart/OG. Arguably a better team just not a Thibs built team. Now with Mitch back, if he can get up to starter level play again, would be a much more efficient offense and better defense on the wings with a rim protector to run Thibs scheme.

JB/Mikal/OG/KAT/Mitch is what we need for Thibs to do his thing apparently. Hoping we get that by the time the playoffs roll around. Tick tock muthafuggas!!

Where's the difference... it was iHart.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

When does Tucker's 10 day expire? It feels like he has been here 10 days to many already

Spotrac says he signed on 10th March. If so he should have expired yesterday.

Why on earth is he even here? Thibs 9 man rotation last night was pathetic. 7 minutes for Precious makes it an 8.5 man rotation and it made zero sense. We have a guy who didn't play for two years getting GT minutes over rookies and other bench players now? WTF is going on around here? Dude was here for 9 days and gets playing time. Make it make sense.

We struggle to get to 50-60 bench minutes all year. The next closest in bench minutes is 20-30 minutes a game more! What is his major malfunction with using his bench. He's a clown with it as well. Guys don't play all year and then suddenly they are all on the floor together? WTF is the sense in that? Just a moron. Fire this trash coach amd get someone else.

$95,000 per minute played.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Spotrac says he signed on 10th March. If so he should have expired yesterday.

Why on earth is he even here? Thibs 9 man rotation last night was pathetic. 7 minutes for Precious makes it an 8.5 man rotation and it made zero sense. We have a guy who didn't play for two years getting GT minutes over rookies and other bench players now? WTF is going on around here? Dude was here for 9 days and gets playing time. Make it make sense.

We struggle to get to 50-60 bench minutes all year. The next closest in bench minutes is 20-30 minutes a game more! What is his major malfunction with using his bench. He's a clown with it as well. Guys don't play all year and then suddenly they are all on the floor together? WTF is the sense in that? Just a moron. Fire this trash coach amd get someone else.

$95,000 per minute played.

Good work, if you can get it.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Why on earth is he even here? Thibs 9 man rotation last night was pathetic. 7 minutes for Precious makes it an 8.5 man rotation and it made zero sense. We have a guy who didn't play for two years getting GT minutes over rookies and other bench players now? WTF is going on around here? Dude was here for 9 days and gets playing time. Make it make sense.

We struggle to get to 50-60 bench minutes all year. The next closest in bench minutes is 20-30 minutes a game more! What is his major malfunction with using his bench. He's a clown with it as well. Guys don't play all year and then suddenly they are all on the floor together? WTF is the sense in that? Just a moron. Fire this trash coach amd get someone else.

$95,000 per minute played.

Good work, if you can get it.

Probably pretty traumatic. He has been paid $11,500,000 for not playing at all this season prior to being called in by the Knicks.

[HopelessKnick]

I agree that punting the draft picks was silly. The ones that bother me are the ones we drafted for other teams basically. Duren is one of them for sure. That was a couple of years back and we had Shart and Mitch at the time. So I get their line of thinking even though I disagree.

We have a really good team though. The HC is a dopey fuq but, the roster has plenty of talent and more depth than people believe. Thibs is a problem. More than the picks we let get away IMO. Time to see what his genius coaching looks like with Mitch back...after we get Jalen back and...hoping we don't lose anyone else to injury.

I agree with your sentiment. One small correction though: Keep in mind the draft 2022 was held on the 24th of June and we signed Hartenstein 3 weeks later in free agency. Don't know if there was already some sort of agreement in place at the draft but at that point we only had Mitch under contract.

Also keep in mind that AT THAT point Hartenstein's best season was 8points/5rebounds....he was nowhere near last season's or this seasons level of play. Duren in his rookie season averaged 9points/9rebounds in just 25minutes (while Hartenstein got 5points/7rebounds with us) and then Duren got 14points/12rebounds last season. My point being, management seriously underestimated Duren's ability because they likely thought "He'll be only a rookie".....same with other drafts. And it may be unfair, but I tie some of it to Thibs too for his demand for veterans and unwillingness to develop players. Like you, I do like our roster but feel the upside is somewhat limited. Look at OKC, perfectly put together team and vast assets left. Literally, if OKC plays their cards right they are a dynasty for the upcoming 8-10 years...they should win at least 3-4 titles.

99% of Knick fans would probably trade rosters with OKC and they have like 10!!! tradable FRPs left.

Correction noted. However that happened we should have kept Duren. Did that trade facilitate opening up the money for Shart or Donte maybe? I know we did something to that effect IIRC.

I would love to have built the team like OKC did. Oh well.

I have no clue to be honest but they have been doing this quite a bit in recent drafts. You know I think what is irking me a bit with the draft approach is that I personally always feel like any worth title contender should draft at least 2 starters by themselves and develop them. I don't like the idea of trading or signing for every single starter on your team. Mitch is the only potential drafted starter left and we have no one currently that could step into that starter role. Deuce is a bench player IMO. Thus I hate to admit it, but I feel like where we are currently at, namely a second round team, is precisely where we deserve to be for punting many drafts and trading away FRPs 7 years into the future without getting a superstar back.

If you look at it from that perspective, we are exactly reaping our well-deserved Karma. If you look at any other recent title winner or current contender, they have drafted some major major talent from pick 1 to late second round. Lakers aside, I can't remember a single team that had not a drafted player as a cornerstone to their title.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I agree with your sentiment. One small correction though: Keep in mind the draft 2022 was held on the 24th of June and we signed Hartenstein 3 weeks later in free agency. Don't know if there was already some sort of agreement in place at the draft but at that point we only had Mitch under contract.

Also keep in mind that AT THAT point Hartenstein's best season was 8points/5rebounds....he was nowhere near last season's or this seasons level of play. Duren in his rookie season averaged 9points/9rebounds in just 25minutes (while Hartenstein got 5points/7rebounds with us) and then Duren got 14points/12rebounds last season. My point being, management seriously underestimated Duren's ability because they likely thought "He'll be only a rookie".....same with other drafts. And it may be unfair, but I tie some of it to Thibs too for his demand for veterans and unwillingness to develop players. Like you, I do like our roster but feel the upside is somewhat limited. Look at OKC, perfectly put together team and vast assets left. Literally, if OKC plays their cards right they are a dynasty for the upcoming 8-10 years...they should win at least 3-4 titles.

99% of Knick fans would probably trade rosters with OKC and they have like 10!!! tradable FRPs left.

Correction noted. However that happened we should have kept Duren. Did that trade facilitate opening up the money for Shart or Donte maybe? I know we did something to that effect IIRC.

I would love to have built the team like OKC did. Oh well.

I have no clue to be honest but they have been doing this quite a bit in recent drafts. You know I think what is irking me a bit with the draft approach is that I personally always feel like any worth title contender should draft at least 2 starters by themselves and develop them. I don't like the idea of trading or signing for every single starter on your team. Mitch is the only potential drafted starter left and we have no one currently that could step into that starter role. Deuce is a bench player IMO. Thus I hate to admit it, but I feel like where we are currently at, namely a second round team, is precisely where we deserve to be for punting many drafts and trading away FRPs 7 years into the future without getting a superstar back.

If you look at it from that perspective, we are exactly reaping our well-deserved Karma. If you look at any other recent title winner or current contender, they have drafted some major major talent from pick 1 to late second round. Lakers aside, I can't remember a single team that had not a drafted player as a cornerstone to their title.

Well...maybe we get lucky. Jokic was drafted in the second round. We still have picks every other year and we will start getting picks back each year as well. We seem to be skirting the 2nd apron so we don't lose control of the future pick as a result of being over the apron too many years. It's all a tap dance to build around this core from here out. People need to get used to it. Unless some whacky trade like a the Luka scenario presents itself we are locked into to Brunson/KAT etc for the next few years. Bench upgrades are the most likely targets.