Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE)

[newyorker4ever]

Tim is going nowhere.

If Calderon gets traded 3 months in then why did he trade for him in the first place?

Why do you think Tim isn't going anywhere. He doesn't pass or defend two thing phil likes in his guards.

calderon doesnt defend at all. he cant drive, even his passing isnt good this season; his turnovers increased..
34 year old 3 year 22m contract !!

why did phil bring calderon with his POISON CONTRACT?!!

That's ridiculous to even say. Calderon is a good PG but playing on a team of bench players so his numbers are obviously gonna be down. calderon on a team with good players is a perfect PG to have cause he's a pass first PG that doesn't turn the ball over much and he can hit the three pointer and it's been said that every team he's played with all the other players love playing with him.

[Meat]

This is wishful thinking. What makes you think any of those players are heading to New York?

What makes you think they aren't?

History. The last two big free agents that wanted to come here did so for the money and were overpayed. Tyson/Amare.

Asik is not going to go from 15 million a year to 8. He is going to want in the 12/13 range. Danny Green is so overrated on these boards its incredible. The guy had one good finals and all of a sudden he is the answer to all our problems. He is going to ask for Jodie Meeks money at 8 million a year at least.

We have 27 million in space. You are going to waste 20 million on it on Asik/Green? Smh

tyson took less money actually, i believe golden state was offering him more

[ozwizard8]

we lost chandler+shumpert for nothing.
so tell me how we can get rid of 35 year old calderon(playing same level with prigs) with 15m/2 year contract remaining?

we would be having the exact same issue if we still had felton.

we might be having 3 cheap rookies playing for us down the stretch and into next year with Early, Thansis, and Larkin (2nd year). All from the Tyson trade.

so tell me how we can get rid of 35 year old calderon(playing same level with prigs) with 15m/2 year contract remaining?
felton would have 4m/1 year contract! dont deal him RELEASE HIM! stretch provision it would affect 2m ! calderon is 7.5m !
thansis/early arent high picks. you can buy those one from FA. we send 2nd round pick for saving 3m outlaw's salary! larkin's option declined, he wont reach even barea level so he's not an asset at all.

so tell me how we can get rid of 35 year old calderon(playing same level with prigs) with 15m/2 year contract remaining?
we probably send hardaway too...

we lost chandler+shumpert for nothing. it was big mistake from phil. if we cant land good FA or cant get good big man from draft our plan would collapse.

[Houston99]

did anyone scream out of happyness after finding out jr smith was traded or was it just me?

[GONYK]

i've had the thought that maybe he's talked to gasol's people and feels good about it. it would explain calderon too. but it seems like wishful thinking more then reality.

Or L ... A.

No it's neither. He has no inside track on any free agents and he's not going to commit himself or the teams future on some back channel gossip from some flimsy athlete's entourage. He's simply going to trust his gut and take it one step at a time.. while of course staying true to his principles. Assess the situation, make a move, and assess the situation again and make another move. And as time goes by things become clearer and clearer and a direction is presented and then you go for it.

I highly doubt Phil sold Dolan on some grand plan.. he sold him on a structure and identity that eventually lead to success and not specific personnel moves. And I'm sure he was smart enough to prepare him for the worst as well as the best but that it was best if they just stuck to the plan regardless of either outcome. I'm also sure he himself prepared himself for both outcomes as well.

Couldn't agree more. This is about building a foundation, a system, a culture. It's not about one player signing. There is a more holistic approach being taken here.

[mpharris36]

so tell me how we can get rid of 35 year old calderon(playing same level with prigs) with 15m/2 year contract remaining?
felton would have 4m/1 year contract! dont deal him RELEASE HIM! stretch provision it would affect 2m ! calderon is 7.5m !
thansis/early arent high picks. you can buy those one from FA. we send 2nd round pick for saving 3m outlaw's salary! larkin's option declined, he wont reach even barea level so he's not an asset at all.

so tell me how we can get rid of 35 year old calderon(playing same level with prigs) with 15m/2 year contract remaining?
we probably send hardaway too...

we lost chandler+shumpert for nothing. it was big mistake from phil. if we cant land good FA or cant get good big man from draft our plan would collapse.

it would only collapse if we made panic moves if Plan A didn't work out. Which I don't think Phil will do but we will see.

Calderon is still shooting 43% from deep and has a better than 2:1 assist to turnover ratio.

Tyson and Shumpert had very little value. Tyson was a expiring making 15 million. No one wanted him outside of Dallas. Shumpert was injured and was terrible this year. All our fans were on this board saying how terrible he was at basketball and you want a good asset for him? come on.

You can not buy early 2nd round picks. Those are never up for trade because they are so valuable nowadays. You can by late 2nd's but not early seconds because of the flexibility of 2nd round picks.

Early was also an early second round pick in a deep draft where most scouts suggested he was a 1st round talent. Stop down playing the assets he got and overvaluing the assets we had. Tyson and Shumpert were not that valuable.

If Rondo gets a 1st rounder, why do you think Shumpert or Tyson get a 1st rounder. Your logic is flawed.

[ibraheim718]

did anyone scream out of happyness after finding out jr smith was traded or was it just me?

Dude... I lost my mind. I was shaking trying to get my keys to open the door because I heard it on the radio in my car.

[BallSacBounce]

This summer will be extremely interesting. If it looks like the Knicks are likely to be striking out, expect Anthony to ask out - and maybe we do then do the total rebuild thing.

That's a great point. So even though it's unlikely we could instabuild a team around Melo/Top three pick if we strike out it may be a so what moment if Melo asks to leave. Then it's tank round 2. This time with a Top three pick already in the bank and the picks from a Melo trade. Melo has a no trade, but we may force his hand.

[K_ick_God]

Or L ... A.

No it's neither. He has no inside track on any free agents and he's not going to commit himself or the teams future on some back channel gossip from some flimsy athlete's entourage. He's simply going to trust his gut and take it one step at a time.. while of course staying true to his principles. Assess the situation, make a move, and assess the situation again and make another move. And as time goes by things become clearer and clearer and a direction is presented and then you go for it.

I highly doubt Phil sold Dolan on some grand plan.. he sold him on a structure and identity that eventually lead to success and not specific personnel moves. And I'm sure he was smart enough to prepare him for the worst as well as the best but that it was best if they just stuck to the plan regardless of either outcome. I'm also sure he himself prepared himself for both outcomes as well.

Couldn't agree more. This is about building a foundation, a system, a culture. It's not about one player signing. There is a more holistic approach being taken here.

[ibraheim718]

I don't even have a problem now with Calderon being the veteran presence on the team for the next year or two. You can work around his money... it's not like he's making 20 million a year. You just can't expect him to be the starting PG playing important minutes.

[Deeeez Knicks]

we lost chandler+shumpert for nothing.
so tell me how we can get rid of 35 year old calderon(playing same level with prigs) with 15m/2 year contract remaining?

we would be having the exact same issue if we still had felton.

we might be having 3 cheap rookies playing for us down the stretch and into next year with Early, Thansis, and Larkin (2nd year). All from the Tyson trade.

so tell me how we can get rid of 35 year old calderon(playing same level with prigs) with 15m/2 year contract remaining?
felton would have 4m/1 year contract! dont deal him RELEASE HIM! stretch provision it would affect 2m ! calderon is 7.5m !
thansis/early arent high picks. you can buy those one from FA. we send 2nd round pick for saving 3m outlaw's salary! larkin's option declined, he wont reach even barea level so he's not an asset at all.

so tell me how we can get rid of 35 year old calderon(playing same level with prigs) with 15m/2 year contract remaining?
we probably send hardaway too...

we lost chandler+shumpert for nothing. it was big mistake from phil. if we cant land good FA or cant get good big man from draft our plan would collapse.

the point is we don't want to stretch anyone. Stretching would be the big mistake that can not be undone.

Calderon can at least be productive, unlike Failton. If you look at it from straight salary then Calderon + Thanasis +Cleanthony is far worth the extra few million of Felton and its not even close

[ozwizard8]

Why do you think Tim isn't going anywhere. He doesn't pass or defend two thing phil likes in his guards.

calderon doesnt defend at all. he cant drive, even his passing isnt good this season; his turnovers increased..
34 year old 3 year 22m contract !!

why did phil bring calderon with his POISON CONTRACT?!!

I was actually wondering that then when the trade was made and still trying to figure it out now.

people says it was culture change...
calderon's game isnt different from felton's.
he cant create, he cant defend. he cant get his number like in dallas/carlisle system.. he's 34 year old.

detroit released j.smith. if phil had balls he would release felton and stretch provision thing.
by the way what was the culture change?
knicks were at same level with atlanta hawks last year. we were at 9th seed.
PHIL CHANGED CULTURE 9TH SEED TO WORST TEAM TO NBA? i know we're tanking now but we tried to win and get that 13-14th position then decide lets tank..

phil's culture change introduce some ugly fights of ACY? no teammate trying to stop acy or support acy. WHAT A CULTURE!
no one knows injured players return! calderon/bargs were healthy at summer. coach etc said they'll play in first games but...
phil's culture change makes injured melo to play 30-40mpg for weeks!
phil's culture change gets JA.SMITH for MLE... he gets CALDERON.
phil acquired calderon+larkin+ja.smith so far. they can just shoot no other thing. no defense. and its culture change!

[ozwizard8]

we would be having the exact same issue if we still had felton.

we might be having 3 cheap rookies playing for us down the stretch and into next year with Early, Thansis, and Larkin (2nd year). All from the Tyson trade.

so tell me how we can get rid of 35 year old calderon(playing same level with prigs) with 15m/2 year contract remaining?
felton would have 4m/1 year contract! dont deal him RELEASE HIM! stretch provision it would affect 2m ! calderon is 7.5m !
thansis/early arent high picks. you can buy those one from FA. we send 2nd round pick for saving 3m outlaw's salary! larkin's option declined, he wont reach even barea level so he's not an asset at all.

so tell me how we can get rid of 35 year old calderon(playing same level with prigs) with 15m/2 year contract remaining?
we probably send hardaway too...

we lost chandler+shumpert for nothing. it was big mistake from phil. if we cant land good FA or cant get good big man from draft our plan would collapse.

the point is we don't want to stretch anyone. Stretching would be the big mistake that can not be undone.

Calderon can at least be productive, unlike Failton

what is 35 year old calderon's production?
failton wasnt worser than him. calderon returned from injury and played.. we saw what he brings.
NO MORE THAN UDRIH/PRIGS/FELTON ...

veteran presence doesnt mean 7.4m per year for 2015 FA, 2016 FA.
without that 7.4 m we can get 2 max players like dragic,butler,gasol

[BowlRips]

Calderon can be moved in a sign and trade. Dont you worry

[nyjetsknicks420]

calderon doesnt defend at all. he cant drive, even his passing isnt good this season; his turnovers increased..
34 year old 3 year 22m contract !!

why did phil bring calderon with his POISON CONTRACT?!!

I was actually wondering that then when the trade was made and still trying to figure it out now.

people says it was culture change...
calderon's game isnt different from felton's.
he cant create, he cant defend. he cant get his number like in dallas/carlisle system.. he's 34 year old.

detroit released j.smith. if phil had balls he would release felton and stretch provision thing.
by the way what was the culture change?
knicks were at same level with atlanta hawks last year. we were at 9th seed.
PHIL CHANGED CULTURE 9TH SEED TO WORST TEAM TO NBA? i know we're tanking now but we tried to win and get that 13-14th position then decide lets tank..

phil's culture change introduce some ugly fights of ACY? no teammate trying to stop acy or support acy. WHAT A CULTURE!
no one knows injured players return! calderon/bargs were healthy at summer. coach etc said they'll play in first games but...
phil's culture change makes injured melo to play 30-40mpg for weeks!
phil's culture change gets JA.SMITH for MLE... he gets CALDERON.
phil acquired calderon+larkin+ja.smith so far. they can just shoot no other thing. no defense. and its culture change!

The culture change is about the types of players on the team not having toxic players like JR around

Phils plan was never to win anything this year ta he thought we would be better but wats the point if being mediocre might as well really suck and get a good pick

[newyorker4ever]

did anyone scream out of happyness after finding out jr smith was traded or was it just me?

Dude... I lost my mind. I was shaking trying to get my keys to open the door because I heard it on the radio in my car.

I was happy but when i heard we were getting Reggie Jackson i was ecstatic.

[mpharris36]

what people are missing is that intentional or not intentional the Tyson trade set us up for a major tank job. We probably wouldn't be in position to get a top 3 pick. I don't care if its lucky or not, the trade helped facilitate that.

There was luck involved when Eli Manning shook off a few defenders and chucked a grenade into the middle of the field and Tyree caught it for a first down. Which then led to the giants winning a superbowl.

It doesn't matter how you get there it just matters that you are there. We got a few cheap assets from the trade hopefully as well. But if we are picking in the top 3 you can thank that trade for helping us get there.

[K_ick_God]

I don't even have a problem now with Calderon being the veteran presence on the team for the next year or two. You can work around his money... it's not like he's making 20 million a year. You just can't expect him to be the starting PG playing important minutes.

Agreed but as a backup who can play some 2, hit a few big shots and protect the ball, and keep defenses honest and out of the middle, he could be worth at least a few mil. So we're talking about perhaps overpaying by $4M at most unless his decline is very pronounced.

[ibraheim718]

Or L ... A.

No it's neither. He has no inside track on any free agents and he's not going to commit himself or the teams future on some back channel gossip from some flimsy athlete's entourage. He's simply going to trust his gut and take it one step at a time.. while of course staying true to his principles. Assess the situation, make a move, and assess the situation again and make another move. And as time goes by things become clearer and clearer and a direction is presented and then you go for it.

I highly doubt Phil sold Dolan on some grand plan.. he sold him on a structure and identity that eventually lead to success and not specific personnel moves. And I'm sure he was smart enough to prepare him for the worst as well as the best but that it was best if they just stuck to the plan regardless of either outcome. I'm also sure he himself prepared himself for both outcomes as well.

Couldn't agree more. This is about building a foundation, a system, a culture. It's not about one player signing. There is a more holistic approach being taken here.

Guys just don't want to go through the growing pains.. but they're inevitable. Worry about winning and results once the team has been fully remodeled and have had time to play together and get to know one another. That's why if people notice I haven't said one word about Fisher's coaching or his style of coaching.. honestly I haven't even paid attention to it. He's in the perfect situation to learn on the job himself. Of course Phil and Fish are going to be optimistic because that's part of changing the identity but that doesn't mean behind closed doors they aren't realistic.

Seems like the team had been trying to trade Smith for 2 years now.. probably under Phil's advice and he gave Shumpert a chance to prove himself to them and in their eyes he probably proved himself to be replaceable.

The other night against Detroit when Jr came in in the 4th quarter and just right back to his usual self which was shooting every time he touched it I said to myself (and even intimated it on here) he's gone.. and I wouldn't be surprised if we waived him symbolically and a couple of days later he's gone. They nipped it in the bud and sent a message.

[ibraheim718]

I don't even have a problem now with Calderon being the veteran presence on the team for the next year or two. You can work around his money... it's not like he's making 20 million a year. You just can't expect him to be the starting PG playing important minutes.

Agreed but as a backup who can play some 2, hit a few big shots and protect the ball, and keep defenses honest and out of the middle, he could be worth at least a few mil. So we're talking about perhaps overpaying by $4M at most unless his decline is very pronounced.

Exactly.. the money could've been spent in a much worse way like paying Jr Smith his player option.