Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE)

[captvict]

I say the fix is in for 2017 with Durant.....KD must be feeling bad for his buddy Fish....and this will be the icing on the cake...dont think Phil will spend it all next year....looking at a 5 year window to build this winner....just my thoughts

[K_ick_God]

I have to say, since the Cavs have so much riding on how far they go in the playoffs, it's odd to me that they think JR will help but I guess they just want some scoring punch to replace Waiters.

JR is unclutch. He is scared of the big moment and starts spiraling from there. That said, a great player like Bron could really help him a lot. At least give him some guts the way MJ did to Pippen.

Bron will have to get him to cut down on terrible shots and mistakes but if anybody can do it, Bron can.

[ozwizard8]

so tell me how we can get rid of 35 year old calderon(playing same level with prigs) with 15m/2 year contract remaining?
felton would have 4m/1 year contract! dont deal him RELEASE HIM! stretch provision it would affect 2m ! calderon is 7.5m !
thansis/early arent high picks. you can buy those one from FA. we send 2nd round pick for saving 3m outlaw's salary! larkin's option declined, he wont reach even barea level so he's not an asset at all.

so tell me how we can get rid of 35 year old calderon(playing same level with prigs) with 15m/2 year contract remaining?
we probably send hardaway too...

we lost chandler+shumpert for nothing. it was big mistake from phil. if we cant land good FA or cant get good big man from draft our plan would collapse.

it would only collapse if we made panic moves if Plan A didn't work out. Which I don't think Phil will do but we will see.

Calderon is still shooting 43% from deep and has a better than 2:1 assist to turnover ratio.

Tyson and Shumpert had very little value. Tyson was a expiring making 15 million. No one wanted him outside of Dallas. Shumpert was injured and was terrible this year. All our fans were on this board saying how terrible he was at basketball and you want a good asset for him? come on.

You can not buy early 2nd round picks. Those are never up for trade because they are so valuable nowadays. You can by late 2nd's but not early seconds because of the flexibility of 2nd round picks.

Early was also an early second round pick in a deep draft where most scouts suggested he was a 1st round talent. Stop down playing the assets he got and overvaluing the assets we had. Tyson and Shumpert were not that valuable.

If Rondo gets a 1st rounder, why do you think Shumpert or Tyson get a 1st rounder. Your logic is flawed.

tyson chandler is top 10 center in the league.
there is plenty of good pg's in the league and rondo doesnt played much in last 2-3 years. they got b.wright+1st round. b.wright's per number shows he's valuable asset.

shumpert on rookie contract+tyson is top 10 center. pack these two and you got 1st round pick.
GETTING CALDERON WAS league-wide worst trade of this season.

try to get rid of calderon. it would cost hardaway... and watch dallas/chandler ...
c.early-thanisis doesnt worth much. we send 2nd round for saving 3m and also gave up changing 2nd round pick. so it means we let early 2nd round pick of future draft for 3m.

GET RID OF CALDERON IF YOU CAN. if he is contributer we would find takers.
cuban robbed phil jackson for sure.
if we can get 2 max FA oppurtunity+melo+top3 pick we can convince m.gasol/butler/dragic like guys.
if we go to summer with trying to get 1 max FA player then they wouldnt want to be in weak roster.

[Deeeez Knicks]

what people are missing is that intentional or not intentional the Tyson trade set us up for a major tank job. We probably wouldn't be in position to get a top 3 pick. I don't care if its lucky or not, the trade helped facilitate that.

There was luck involved when Eli Manning shook off a few defenders and chucked a grenade into the middle of the field and Tyree caught it for a first down. Which then led to the giants winning a superbowl.

It doesn't matter how you get there it just matters that you are there. We got a few cheap assets from the trade hopefully as well. But if we are picking in the top 3 you can thank that trade for helping us get there.

That was such a great set up for this tank job. Its like we moved up 5 to 10 spots in the draft up near the top. That is way more valuable then the late first rounder people are crying for.

[Oscirus]

Well if that happens then it means that Jackson has really no other excuses. It'll truly be his team, his way. Well, I'm sure folks will then start blaming Anthony if something goes wrong, but yeah, it would be his baby.

Isn't it his team now anyway? The last two major contracts from the last regime come off next year.


I will say that it's kind of refreshing to have somebody who's willing to rebuild as opposed to half-assing it like Isaiah did.

[Capn'O]

I don't even have a problem now with Calderon being the veteran presence on the team for the next year or two. You can work around his money... it's not like he's making 20 million a year. You just can't expect him to be the starting PG playing important minutes.

Agreed but as a backup who can play some 2, hit a few big shots and protect the ball, and keep defenses honest and out of the middle, he could be worth at least a few mil. So we're talking about perhaps overpaying by $4M at most unless his decline is very pronounced.

Exactly.. the money could've been spent in a much worse way like paying Jr Smith his player option.

Bingo. There's no worse way that $$$ can be spent. Maybe Josh Smith is worse. No matter what happens with the $$$ this offseason, it will be better spent. With Shump proving replaceable, you make that deal 10 times out of 10 and move on.

People think it's about JR the person, but it's about the player even moreso. He's talented as anyone in the league but just doesn't get how to play team ball at a pro level.

[ozwizard8]

I say the fix is in for 2017 with Durant.....KD must be feeling bad for his buddy Fish....and this will be the icing on the cake...dont think Phil will spend it all next year....looking at a 5 year window to build this winner....just my thoughts

after 2017;
+we would get rid of calderon and his awful contract.
-melo would be 33.

i dont think anyone would join melo at 33. they wont even consider.
lebron didnt considered joining kobe. i'm not sure about melo.

if phil jackson sends melo away(getting a pick) and get our '16 pick somehow then i would ok for 2017 FA plan.

[K_ick_God]

Tyson is great. He got every limb handed to him by Hibbert but look at those double-doubles he's getting. It somehow makes it seem like he's not an old bag of skin and bones who can't shoot.

Guy was a decent player and help defender who could always put up big rebound numbers. He put up those big rebound numbers and we would get killed defensively and in every way with him on the floor. How many little guys went directly at him and into him and scored easily? He's lost a step but he's making sure to get the numbers filled out so he can get another paycheck. He's so great that I bet Dallas lets him walk rather than pay him anything much.

Top 10 my ass. Cole is better than him.

[ozwizard8]

Agreed but as a backup who can play some 2, hit a few big shots and protect the ball, and keep defenses honest and out of the middle, he could be worth at least a few mil. So we're talking about perhaps overpaying by $4M at most unless his decline is very pronounced.

Exactly.. the money could've been spent in a much worse way like paying Jr Smith his player option.

Bingo. There's no worse way that $$$ can be spent. Maybe Josh Smith is worse. No matter what happens with the $$$ this offseason, it will be better spent. With Shump proving replaceable, you make that deal 10 times out of 10 and move on.

People think it's about JR the person, but it's about the player even moreso. He's talented as anyone in the league but just doesn't get how to play team ball at a pro level.

so far p.jackson spend money for JA.SMITH, Calderon and D.Fisher.
we can only hope he wont max g.monroe, danny green.

[mpharris36]

tyson chandler is top 10 center in the league.
there is plenty of good pg's in the league and rondo doesnt played much in last 2-3 years. they got b.wright+1st round. b.wright's per number shows he's valuable asset.

shumpert on rookie contract+tyson is top 10 center. pack these two and you got 1st round pick.
GETTING CALDERON WAS league-wide worst trade of this season.

try to get rid of calderon. it would cost hardaway... and watch dallas/chandler ...
c.early-thanisis doesnt worth much. we send 2nd round for saving 3m and also gave up changing 2nd round pick. so it means we let early 2nd round pick of future draft for 3m.

GET RID OF CALDERON IF YOU CAN. if he is contributer we would find takers.
cuban robbed phil jackson for sure.
if we can get 2 max FA oppurtunity+melo+top3 pick we can convince m.gasol/butler/dragic like guys.
if we go to summer with trying to get 1 max FA player then they wouldnt want to be in weak roster.

no f*ck the hypotheticals. Tell me the team and the exact trade with a team that could get Tyson + Shumpert for a 1st round pick.

People get so f*cking enamored with 1st round picks. If it is a non lottery first round pick you end up in the shumpert/THjr range. A decent contributor role player. Some might even say an early 2nd round pick is more valuable than a late first because of the salary commitment.

but I'm serious find me a trade where a contending team can take on 17 million of salary in Tyson and Shumpert? And we get no long term money back.

[j4remi]

No it's neither. He has no inside track on any free agents and he's not going to commit himself or the teams future on some back channel gossip from some flimsy athlete's entourage. He's simply going to trust his gut and take it one step at a time.. while of course staying true to his principles. Assess the situation, make a move, and assess the situation again and make another move. And as time goes by things become clearer and clearer and a direction is presented and then you go for it.

I highly doubt Phil sold Dolan on some grand plan.. he sold him on a structure and identity that eventually lead to success and not specific personnel moves. And I'm sure he was smart enough to prepare him for the worst as well as the best but that it was best if they just stuck to the plan regardless of either outcome. I'm also sure he himself prepared himself for both outcomes as well.

Well said!

[Houston99]

did anyone scream out of happyness after finding out jr smith was traded or was it just me?

Dude... I lost my mind. I was shaking trying to get my keys to open the door because I heard it on the radio in my car.

me too im was laying down playing nba2k and got a notification on my after i read it i screamed random words that i dont think exist...i said my n***a out of happines.

[ozwizard8]

Tyson is great. He got every limb handed to him by Hibbert but look at those double-doubles he's getting. It somehow makes it seem like he's not an old bag of skin and bones who can't shoot.

Guy was a decent player and help defender who could always put up big rebound numbers. He put up those big rebound numbers and we would get killed defensively and in every way with him on the floor. How many little guys went directly at him and into him and scored easily?

Top 10 my ass. Cole is better than him.

yea chris smith is better than mudiay.
ja.smith is better than nowitzki..

these are better for tanking race..

[j4remi]

Brian Windhorst playing "I know Phil Jackson's intentions" on every radio show...it's pretty lame and annoying.

[NOOB77]

Brian Windhorst playing "I know Phil Jackson's intentions" on every radio show...it's pretty lame and annoying.

I hate that guy....He is on all the time now also. He doesn't know S**T

[ozwizard8]

tyson chandler is top 10 center in the league.
there is plenty of good pg's in the league and rondo doesnt played much in last 2-3 years. they got b.wright+1st round. b.wright's per number shows he's valuable asset.

shumpert on rookie contract+tyson is top 10 center. pack these two and you got 1st round pick.
GETTING CALDERON WAS league-wide worst trade of this season.

try to get rid of calderon. it would cost hardaway... and watch dallas/chandler ...
c.early-thanisis doesnt worth much. we send 2nd round for saving 3m and also gave up changing 2nd round pick. so it means we let early 2nd round pick of future draft for 3m.

GET RID OF CALDERON IF YOU CAN. if he is contributer we would find takers.
cuban robbed phil jackson for sure.
if we can get 2 max FA oppurtunity+melo+top3 pick we can convince m.gasol/butler/dragic like guys.
if we go to summer with trying to get 1 max FA player then they wouldnt want to be in weak roster.

no f*ck the hypotheticals. Tell me the team and the exact trade with a team that could get Tyson + Shumpert for a 1st round pick.

People get so f*cking enamored with 1st round picks. If it is a non lottery first round pick you end up in the shumpert/THjr range. A decent contributor role player. Some might even say an early 2nd round pick is more valuable than a late first because of the salary commitment.

but I'm serious find me a trade where a contending team can take on 17 million of salary in Tyson and Shumpert? And we get no long term money back.

tyson+shumpert for perkins+filler+1st round pick. they could do that without shumpert...

okc would get chandler and he would play like in dallas. shumpert would provide good sg contribution. they send 1st pick for chucker dion waiters(jr's lost brother) .
you can find more of it.

if its entertaining to think like KNICKS DID A TRADE WE'RE SO GREAT! JACKSON IS THE KING OF TANKING HURRAY!! then continue..

[Fat Kat]

Tyson is great. He got every limb handed to him by Hibbert but look at those double-doubles he's getting. It somehow makes it seem like he's not an old bag of skin and bones who can't shoot.

Guy was a decent player and help defender who could always put up big rebound numbers. He put up those big rebound numbers and we would get killed defensively and in every way with him on the floor. How many little guys went directly at him and into him and scored easily? He's lost a step but he's making sure to get the numbers filled out so he can get another paycheck. He's so great that I bet Dallas lets him walk rather than pay him anything much.

Top 10 my ass. Cole is better than him.

Half of Tyson's rebounds are tips. Chandler is all bluster. The epitome of fake hustle. Getting stupid techs after the play is over. He's a joke.

[Anotha Knicks fan]

did anyone scream out of happyness after finding out jr smith was traded or was it just me?

Dude... I lost my mind. I was shaking trying to get my keys to open the door because I heard it on the radio in my car.

me too im was laying down playing nba2k and got a notification on my after i read it i screamed random words that i dont think exist...i said my n***a out of happines.

my buddy text me a blurb that said waiters was on his way out, I asked him if the trade included Dally... he said not, then said the sources say it was with OKC, and reggie jax was included. I said, damn, we sure could use a reggie jax. Then proceeded to jump on and see what this place had to say about it. Then I saw that we were in the mix, and I flipped my lid. Saw JR was included and like ibe/abe, shook, and voraciously ate this thread. read EVERY painstaking post.

posted how i went on a mini rollercoaster, but ended on a high note knowing spliff was gone.

[ibraheim718]

Agreed but as a backup who can play some 2, hit a few big shots and protect the ball, and keep defenses honest and out of the middle, he could be worth at least a few mil. So we're talking about perhaps overpaying by $4M at most unless his decline is very pronounced.

Exactly.. the money could've been spent in a much worse way like paying Jr Smith his player option.

Bingo. There's no worse way that $$$ can be spent. Maybe Josh Smith is worse. No matter what happens with the $$$ this offseason, it will be better spent. With Shump proving replaceable, you make that deal 10 times out of 10 and move on.

People think it's about JR the person, but it's about the player even moreso. He's talented as anyone in the league but just doesn't get how to play team ball at a pro level.

And honestly.. Smith will do good in Cleveland. He'll be on his best behavior and Lebron will keep him in check which is something Melo couldn't do. Truth of the matter is we don't have a Lebron type personality here yet and I think Smith was more enamored with being a professional athlete in NYC rather than being enamored with learning how to play winning basketball and what that entails. That game in Detroit was him saying I'm done.. I can't do it anymore.

[FemaleDogPlease]

Knicks can rebuild this summer. They need to get lucky with Gasol or Aldridge though.