OT. The Donald Trump (and Politics) Momentum Thread

[BKAY]

The problem with Donald supporters logic is that Yes, no doubt about it, "radical Islam " is a HUGE problem right now. I do agree with Trump, actually, that we should be limiting immigration from countries who are Islamic states right now. But the blind spot in their logic is that the U.S. has indirectly.... Hell maybe even purposely created these organizations. Americans, Sanders supporters, Trump supporters, Clinton supporters....EVERYONE needs to band together to let our government know that they canot be complicit in these endless wars/regime changes. USA needs to start to mind their own effin business. Drumming on about how terrible radical Islam is will do nothing but exacerbate things.

I am petrified of the prospect of Clinton the Hawk who wants to put serious boots on the ground in Syria and establish a no fly zone there. Who I think will end up going hard at Russia and possibly end up in a war with Russia. She fancies herself too much of a foreign policy expert , when in reality pretty much every international situation she touches turns into mayhem.

Fighting ISIS is a losing battle. It will never end, they are unbeatable. US needs to pack their bags and get out of this multiple front war we are fighting. We need to take this huge military budget and put it towards homeland security.

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[IllmaticHandler]

there is simply no reasoning with these clowns. They are a group out to inflict pain and as much death as possible. They are throwing people off buildings because of there sexual orientation. There is simply no reasoning with them.

so Your Solution is to what, Nuke Them? You really thinking america can keep going to war and not start suffering major consequences of they own in this country ? Fighting this is not a traditional battle.


These type of pockets were able to bring the Mighty Russia to a stand still. The is even with Russia being Logistically closer than US forces. America can't win this battle with Boots on the Ground. So to achieve what you want, you basically have to Nuke the Whole Middle East. Kill everyone out there.... Listen to yourself. Your no better than the people who are throwing people off the buildings then. America Keeps this up, and it will turn into Isreal very soon. Bombs Exploding every where from within.

[mpharris36]

there is simply no reasoning with these clowns. They are a group out to inflict pain and as much death as possible. They are throwing people off buildings because of there sexual orientation. There is simply no reasoning with them.

so Your Solution is to what, Nuke Them? You really thinking america can keep going to war and not start suffering major consequences of they own in this country ? Fighting this is not a tradition battle.


These type of pockets were able to bring the Might Russia to a stand still. The is with Russia being Logistically closer. America can't win this battle with Boots on the Ground. So to achieve what you want you basically have to Nuke the Whole Middle East. Kill everyone out there.... Listen to yourself. Your no better than the people who are throwing people off the buildings then. America Keeps this up and it will turn into Isreal very soon. Bombs Exploding every where from within.

I never said nuke them. And find it silly you would assume I said nuke them. Of course this is not a traditional battle. Those scum bags hide in hospitals, schools, and religious locations and know we can't touch them there.

As for dealing with the problem I am not sure anyone has a great answer. The only one I can think of right now is really putting a srtick ban on travel into this country and make the process of applying for visa's extremely lengthy and difficult from countries that have ISIS related ties.

As for american citizens (which he was). We need to start cutting into some civil liberties to be honest with you. The fact that this guy and his father were looked at multiple times and nothing could be done "because they didn't break any laws" is ridiculous in my eyes. I have no problem having some of my civil liberties taken away (because I have nothing to hide). I know its extreme but at this point like you said what other options do we have.

They are already in our country and some of them we can't touch because they are "american citizens".

[IllmaticHandler]

America could not even win Vietnam. They got DESTROYED out there. America got they ass whipped in Japan. America with boots on the Ground in the Middle East, will get destroyed in the long run as well. America gets to hang its head high with WW2, but even that war had mad allies. America does not have the Allied forces they had back then. The enemy is not even that clear to the world. Its really only america who is pushing this full scale war with the Middle East.


Americas Soldiers are badass to the first degree,they have always been badass... but its has a bunch of MAJOR L's on its resume, When fighting really strong opponents on its own. Many of the battles it has won, were against much weaker opponets.


Basically Sending Troops to Vietnam and Japan was a waste of time....soldiers died for NOTHING.

[thebuzzardman]

I think there is a cadre, of not insignificant size, that can't be reasoned with.

However, like Mao says, the population to the guerilla is like the sea to the fish.

Kill the leaders, have a plan to make the population better off. Obviously, not easy.

[Capn'O]

On Daesh - I honestly think the current approach of supporting local efforts of containment and recapture of territory while not heavily engaging in the region otherwise is the correct one. If you play the long game, Daesh will starve themselves. The recruit base has slowed as the paradise conditions that the Quran describes under a legitimate Caliphate are not being met and they can only point the finger outwards for so long. The die hards have mostly joined and those on the fence are now seeing a losing battle.

Daesh only controls 14% of the territory it initially captured. We saw last year in the refugee crisis that the majority in the region simply want out of any of it. Their leaders, the jihadis, the endless wars regardless of who is at fault. Most are sick of it.


The main issue that remains is these wannabe attackers. Like the lone wolves in the schools shootings, they all seem to be naturalized citizens and acquiring their arms legally. In short, basic no-sell lists and an assault weapons ban would likely have stopped the Orlando and San Bernadino killings without discriminating or additional surveillance*. They simply wouldn't have had the weaponry to carry out a massive killing spree.


*Edit - I'll add that web surveillance of message board sites is something that I have no issue with whatsoever. The Roseburg killer in Oregon last year went on Reddit the night before and basically advertised what he was going to do. Instead of hiring moles for campaigns or whatever, why not pay millions to have people find and lurk on those forums?

[NY2TheBay]

It will take a global approach to take down Isis, imo. We need to stop trying to do everything and in this case they are everywhere and we need to have assistance. I think it will help our international relations while making the approach to stopping Isil more effective.

I do think there needs to be an improved vetting process for letting immigrants in our country and we need to take measures that may be of unpopular opinion. Unfortunately this loser George W. Bush got this thing going and he can sit back and watch the fire spread, now.

I know there are statistics that may prove otherwise and thats ok but terrorists can and will come from any race. But what we can do is focus on the stats and make the adjustments needed to improve the chances towards minimizing attacks.

Citizen rights are very important and is a part of what makes us the home of the free. Some have slowly been taken away and the NRA and their supporters are really uptight about gun carrying. High magazine assault rifles are unnecessary, imo. But truthfully these maniacs will get their hands on them one way or another but making them illegal to the average citizen is probably the best approach (i say this reluctantly as we have 320 million americans and a few bad apples that are misusing the rifles) .

My time in china on business was interesting. You could see people just beaten down with their head down walking around, like they were robots. Communism has taken a toll on them it seems. I had a few girls ask me if I live in fear because of guns in our country and I couldnt help but laugh a little. To them its like some crazy idea to have it available. They also told me that they do have guns but its just underground where individuals actually make them themselves but its quietly done, for good reason.

[Capn'O]

But truthfully these maniacs will get their hands on them one way or another

I don't think this applies in all cases. Especially this recent one. Most of the lone wolf attacks - and I include the Orlando killing in this - are not carried out by people well networked enough to find and break into a weapons ring or scam the system. It's kind of the personality.

Obviously, actual ISIS operatives are another story altogether. Much more calculated/deliberate. But those with actual affiliations do not seem widespread in the US.

[NY2TheBay]

But truthfully these maniacs will get their hands on them one way or another

I don't think this applies in all cases. Especially this recent one. Most of the lone wolf attacks - and I include the Orlando killing in this - are not carried out by people well networked enough to find and break into a weapons ring or scam the system. It's kind of the personality.

Obviously, actual ISIS operatives are another story altogether. Much more calculated/deliberate. But those with actual affiliations do not seem widespread in the US.

I think if a person is intent on doing a mass killing and is enamored by this sort of thing, they will find a way to acquire. These people are lunatics. So I agree "its kind of the personality". This type of personality we shouldn't sell short on what they would do or what extent they would go to.

I did state that high magazine assault rifles should be made illegal to the average citizen but to think that this would curb the problem completely would be naive.

[NBA Fan 1234]

This is what should happen IMO

- Tap into some civil liberties to help keep us safe.

- Ban the sale of guns. Period. I don't care about the 2nd Amendment because the time periods are completely different (the Constitution is a living document after all), it was for the state militia (and protection against an overbearing government), and there is no need for guns IMO. If not an outright ban of all guns, ban automatic guns and make it INCREDIBLY hard to purchase a handgun. Anyone with the slightest question about them should not be able to get one.

- Don't know how, but put more money into national security while at the same time keeping our military strength up.

- Create an international agency that has one goal: stop terrorism - make use of our allies (and even countries that we don't always see eye to eye with) to put the safety of the people of EARTH above differences.

- Like Capn'O said, play the long game. I'm all for making mini attacks (drone strikes, small units, etc), but I'm not sure creating a full scale attack will end well.

(I know my ideas are unlikely, btw...)

[Capn'O]

But truthfully these maniacs will get their hands on them one way or another

I don't think this applies in all cases. Especially this recent one. Most of the lone wolf attacks - and I include the Orlando killing in this - are not carried out by people well networked enough to find and break into a weapons ring or scam the system. It's kind of the personality.

Obviously, actual ISIS operatives are another story altogether. Much more calculated/deliberate. But those with actual affiliations do not seem widespread in the US.

I think if a person is intent on doing a mass killing and is enamored by this sort of thing, they will find a way to acquire. These people are lunatics. So I agree "its kind of the personality". This type of personality we shouldn't sell short on what they would do or what extent they would go to.

I did state that high magazine assault rifles should be made illegal to the average citizen but to think that this would curb the problem completely would be naive.

Not completely. But a lot of these guys are too socially isolated to network their way into an assault rifle if it's not readily available for purchase. Maybe they get a handgun instead.

[mpharris36]

This is what should happen IMO

- Tap into some civil liberties to help keep us safe.

- Ban the sale of guns. Period. I don't care about the 2nd Amendment because the time periods are completely different (the Constitution is a living document after all), it was for the state militia (and protection against an overbearing government), and there is no need for guns IMO. If not an outright ban of all guns, ban automatic guns and make it INCREDIBLY hard to purchase a handgun. Anyone with the slightest question about them should not be able to get one.

- Don't know how, but put more money into national security while at the same time keeping our military strength up.

- Create an international agency that has one goal: stop terrorism - make use of our allies (and even countries that we don't always see eye to eye with) to put the safety of the people of EARTH above differences.

- Like Capn'O said, play the long game. I'm all for making mini attacks (drone strikes, small units, etc), but I'm not sure creating a full scale attack will end well.

(I know my ideas are unlikely, btw...)

I think all your statements are pretty fair and not sided to a political party which is refreshing to see.

Most of my economical beliefs lean republican so that is way I usually lean but in the case of guns laws they just need to be stricter. I am not a gun owner, never plan on buying one so I don't care if they are tacken away but I understand the snowball of taken away rights. But as Ronald Reagan similarly said I respect someones right to carry in terms of defending themselves but an AK-47 or an AR-15 is not needed for defense or sport.



Like you said KF, there should be an extremely lengthy process to get a handgun. Just like having a driving license is a privileged, owning a fire arm should be as well. And I know people who own guns that would have no problem following these rules and regulations. Basically if you have nothing to hide you should have no problem going through the extra process to acquire one.

As for anyone that has been "red flagged" by the government whether they are a US citizen or not. Basically anyone with a criminal history, or anyone that the government appoints as a threat should should be flagged as someone that can not acquire a firearm.

As for further protection. I agree. I have no problem with the government taping into some of my civil liberties if the end game is trying to keep the people in the country safe. Yes, I understand civil liberties is what the great nation was founded upon, however times have changed and we need to adapt. So much communication is going on through emails/internet/message boards. These need to consistently monitored and any suspicious behavior needs to be flagged.

More jobs need to be created to make sure any an all important information is not being overlooked.

Also our presence needs to be known and we need to continue to cut off funding and leadership of ISIS affiliated groups (drone attacks, small special forces team so on and so forth). Continue to hit them where it hurts so that recruiting continues to go down.

It's not an easy process thats for sure. But things just have to change at this point.

[NY2TheBay]

I don't think this applies in all cases. Especially this recent one. Most of the lone wolf attacks - and I include the Orlando killing in this - are not carried out by people well networked enough to find and break into a weapons ring or scam the system. It's kind of the personality.

Obviously, actual ISIS operatives are another story altogether. Much more calculated/deliberate. But those with actual affiliations do not seem widespread in the US.

I think if a person is intent on doing a mass killing and is enamored by this sort of thing, they will find a way to acquire. These people are lunatics. So I agree "its kind of the personality". This type of personality we shouldn't sell short on what they would do or what extent they would go to.

I did state that high magazine assault rifles should be made illegal to the average citizen but to think that this would curb the problem completely would be naive.

Not completely. But a lot of these guys are too socially isolated to network their way into an assault rifle if it's not readily available for purchase. Maybe they get a handgun instead.

I understand the assumption. I have never been around these types of individuals as I rarely interact with introverts let alone crazy socially isolated hermits. From my basic reading of this guy (i admit I dont like to read about these people) he was a regular at this nightclub and had an online gay dating profile. Not sure I would label this Orlando nut job "socially isloated". They can come from anywhere it seems.

You and I think rationally (no assault rifle available go to the handgun), while these guys are seemingly enamored with blood and mass killing. These lunatics probably would go to extremes to get what their eyes want to see. But what do we really know.

[NBA Fan 1234]

This is what should happen IMO

- Tap into some civil liberties to help keep us safe.

- Ban the sale of guns. Period. I don't care about the 2nd Amendment because the time periods are completely different (the Constitution is a living document after all), it was for the state militia (and protection against an overbearing government), and there is no need for guns IMO. If not an outright ban of all guns, ban automatic guns and make it INCREDIBLY hard to purchase a handgun. Anyone with the slightest question about them should not be able to get one.

- Don't know how, but put more money into national security while at the same time keeping our military strength up.

- Create an international agency that has one goal: stop terrorism - make use of our allies (and even countries that we don't always see eye to eye with) to put the safety of the people of EARTH above differences.

- Like Capn'O said, play the long game. I'm all for making mini attacks (drone strikes, small units, etc), but I'm not sure creating a full scale attack will end well.

(I know my ideas are unlikely, btw...)

I think all your statements are pretty fair and not sided to a political party which is refreshing to see.

Most of my economical beliefs lean republican so that is way I usually lean but in the case of guns laws they just need to be stricter. I am not a gun owner, never plan on buying one so I don't care if they are tacken away but I understand the snowball of taken away rights. But as Ronald Reagan similarly said I respect someones right to carry in terms of defending themselves but an AK-47 or an AR-15 is not needed for defense or sport.



Like you said KF, there should be an extremely lengthy process to get a handgun. Just like having a driving license is a privileged, owning a fire arm should be as well. And I know people who own guns that would have no problem following these rules and regulations. Basically if you have nothing to hide you should have no problem going through the extra process to acquire one.

As for anyone that has been "red flagged" by the government whether they are a US citizen or not. Basically anyone with a criminal history, or anyone that the government appoints as a threat should should be flagged as someone that can not acquire a firearm.

As for further protection. I agree. I have no problem with the government taping into some of my civil liberties if the end game is trying to keep the people in the country safe. Yes, I understand civil liberties is what the great nation was founded upon, however times have changed and we need to adapt. So much communication is going on through emails/internet/message boards. These need to consistently monitored and any suspicious behavior needs to be flagged.

More jobs need to be created to make sure any an all important information is not being overlooked.

Also our presence needs to be known and we need to continue to cut off funding and leadership of ISIS affiliated groups (drone attacks, small special forces team so on and so forth). Continue to hit them where it hurts so that recruiting continues to go down.

It's not an easy process thats for sure. But things just have to change at this point.

Yep yep yep yep. Exactly.

Regarding the bold - I'm a registered independent voter because I pull from both sides. I think my non-partisan views will help me make a successful presidential big in the 2040s/50s.

[mpharris36]

I think our best candidates would be people that could tap into the beliefs of both parties. Unfortunately founding comes from groups that are either way left or way right. Someone that balances out both parties is usually bullied out of the race by the two main parties which is so sad.

I am a registered republican because almost all my economical beliefs as someone who works in finance align with that side. But I am very socially liberal. I am also religious (catholic) but also don't 100% believe in every agenda the catholic church preaches.

Being to far on one side is never good, you need to be balance. My whole thought process when it comes to me being socially liberal is why do I get the right to tell someone who they should marry or how am I suppose to tell a women to not keep a baby they can't support or don't want (assuming its done in a timely fashion approved by doctors).

What I'm trying to say is everything doesn't need to be one side or the other. But apparently the powers that be are so wrapped in democrats this and republicans that..at the end of the day nothing productive gets done.

[BKAY]

Im all for the ban of assault rifles and other specific weapons and expanding background checks and making it much harder for someone to get a gun. But I am not comfortable with the government and police being the only ones with guns in this country. Therefore I am defintly against all out ban on guns. Not to mention, there are several legitimate reasons including hunting and self defense to carry a gun.


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[BKAY]

I think our best candidates would be people that could tap into the beliefs of both parties. Unfortunately founding comes from groups that are either way left or way right. Someone that balances out both parties is usually bullied out of the race by the two main parties which is so sad.

I am a registered republican because almost all my economical beliefs as someone who works in finance align with that side. But I am very socially liberal. I am also religious (catholic) but also don't 100% believe in every agenda the catholic church preaches.

Being to far on one side is never good, you need to be balance. My whole thought process when it comes to me being socially liberal is why do I get the right to tell someone who they should marry or how am I suppose to tell a women to not keep a baby they can't support or don't want (assuming its done in a timely fashion approved by doctors).

What I'm trying to say is everything doesn't need to be one side or the other. But apparently the powers that be are so wrapped in democrats this and republicans that..at the end of the day nothing productive gets done.

How do you like Gary Johnson of the libertarian party? Seems to align with what you're looking for. I think he's going to be surprisingly competitive


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[AllanH20]

Someone remind me how Trump is going to kick out the self-hating gays born in the U.S.? This idiot probably hopes for **** like this to happen so that he can rant about terrorism. He's going to have to eat his words again just like when the plane crashed in Egypt.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Im all for the ban of assault rifles and other specific weapons and expanding background checks and making it much harder for someone to get a gun. But I am not comfortable with the government and police being the only ones with guns in this country. Therefore I am defintly against all out ban on guns. Not to mention, there are several legitimate reasons including hunting and self defense to carry a gun.


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Not going to touch on hunting (which I don't think is morally right) and self defense (don't houses with guns end up needing to use them more than those without...?), but why are you not comfortable with the government and police being the only ones with guns? I'm legitimately curious, because out of all the things I'm afraid of in this world, the government or police rising against the people is probably the last thing on my list of things to fear.

[TrueWarrior]

[As for further protection. I agree. I have no problem with the government taping into some of my civil liberties if the end game is trying to keep the people in the country safe. Yes, I understand civil liberties is what the great nation was founded upon, however times have changed and we need to adapt. So much communication is going on through emails/internet/message boards. These need to consistently monitored and any suspicious behavior needs to be flagged.

This is a very scary mindset to me. One that only leads down a darker path.

When you guys say you're cool with some of your liberties being taken away, what are you actually saying? As in you're cool with the government monitoring your every e-mail, text, phone call, and what not? Cmon man. It doesn't matter if you have nothing to hide. F*ck that.