Knicks sign Tim Hardaway Jr 2

[NoLayupRule]

You're right. But here's what happened.

NLR said THJ is a mid level player.

Polk saw mid and thought hey max deals are around 36 so the mid point is 18, so yay for math.

What???

That's why we literally had to explain what a mid level exception contract is.

How as a Knicks fan do you not know what a mid level contract is after the Jeffries and James contracts??

my point, and it was pretty clear, was that we were paying an average NBA player almost 18 mil a season

And calling that the new mid level exception was inaccurate.

It's a bad deal for a mid level player

If he turns into a star it's still just a reasonable salary.


He has to become a superstar on this contract for it to be a good deal

Contract is fine if he becomes a star

Superstars are making 30+ now

And this is the issue

Contract is fine if he becomes a star

If he becomes thjr it's not

[MP4LIFE]

You're good if you score 20 ppg. Just ask anyone on this forum.

You literally do not need to provide anything else to the team.

[8516knicks]

We need BARGNANI back pronto! (4 years - rest of cap space - do it!!!)

[Oscirus]

And when Sr came into the league, the salary cap was 9 million, about 1/11th of what it is today

I'm sure that has nothing to do with it, lolknicks

What part of adjusted for inflation did you not understand? Same question to everybody else who thinks they're making a point with those charts. lolfail.

http://www.in2013dollars.com/1988-dollars-in-2017?amount=9000000

9 million dollars in 1988 is equal to 18 million today, so the cap would be 18 million if it stayed stagnant, which is roughly 80 million less than it actually is, about 1/5th in terms of fractions not 1/11th, my mistake

So THJ would have signed for 4 years 14 million in 1988 money

lolfail

4 years, 14 million? Yea that sounds about what Hardway's worth.

[stuporman]

Miss Cleo : THJr Poison pill contract proves to kill Knicks FA hopes the rest of the decade.

[KnicksGod]

The second the Hawks match there won't be a damn word said about how it's a bad contract. If anything people will say they stole him from the Knicks.

[KnicksGod]

You're good if you score 20 ppg. Just ask anyone on this forum.

You literally do not need to provide anything else to the team.

No ... but if Timmy hits 20 PPG on 45/37% then he's not going to be a bad contract -- whether it's for the Hawks or us or elsewhere. Any team would take that. If he plays decent D, bonus.

Scoring 20 on good percentages is a major dividing line in the NBA.

[whocares1]

Knicks I guess are hoping Tim Hardaway turns into a Bradley Beal.

[KnicksGod]

Knicks I guess are hoping Tim Hardaway turns into a Bradley Beal.

The Wiz were hoping Bradley Beal turned into a Bradley Beal when they gave him this contract. It actually worked twice for them because Wall was not a Max player when they Maxed him, either. But both got up to par.

[Adelheid]

The second the Hawks match there won't be a damn word said about how it's a bad contract. If anything people will say they stole him from the Knicks.

Everything knicks do is bad and that is the media narrative

[KnicksGadfly]

The second the Hawks match there won't be a damn word said about how it's a bad contract. If anything people will say they stole him from the Knicks.

Everything knicks do is bad and that is the media narrative

It's not just the media. There are a ton of posters on this forum that don't agree with this move. I don't agree with it either. Gonna live with it, and hope I eat crow, but it's true. From my standpoint, I think it's a terrible move, but I hope it works out. If the media praised the move, I'd still question it.

[MP4LIFE]

The second the Hawks match there won't be a damn word said about how it's a bad contract. If anything people will say they stole him from the Knicks.

Everything knicks do is bad and that is the media narrative

Or maybe the Knicks do many things bad.

You seem to be in denial on what the Knicks are as an organization for nearly 20 years.

[whocares1]

The second the Hawks match there won't be a damn word said about how it's a bad contract. If anything people will say they stole him from the Knicks.

Everything knicks do is bad and that is the media narrative

It's a bad move because it's a high risk type decision that the Knicks in their current state didn't have to make.

[Stannis]

Just doesnt make sense to spend stupdily like these other NBA teams. Especially on an average SG. You cant compete with these super teams now. So just keep cap space, experiment with young players on cheap deals, and get lottery picks.

Tim makes you slightly better, and just helps keep you stay in mediocrity.

[whocares1]

Just doesnt make sense to spend stupdily like these other NBA teams. Especially on an average SG. You cant compete with these super teams now. So just keep cap space, experiment with young players on cheap deals, and get lottery picks.

Tim makes you slightly better, and just helps keep you stay in mediocrity.

I think they view Hardaway as potentially part of their core in Frank-KP-Willy. I don't think they view him as just a rotational player. In a spread offense with more touches they're hoping he turns into Bradley Beal.

[2010]

Just doesnt make sense to spend stupdily like these other NBA teams. Especially on an average SG. You cant compete with these super teams now. So just keep cap space, experiment with young players on cheap deals, and get lottery picks.

Tim makes you slightly better, and just helps keep you stay in mediocrity.

If you are worried that THJr makes us better, then he isn't as average a SG as you are making him out to be.

[Polk377]

Yes. It's called valuing your cap space and not using it just to make impatient fans like yourself feel better.

Im sorry but as Greenie just stated nicer than I you don't know **** about cap structure. Who do you want signed in 2020? 35 year old Lebron, 36 year old Wade and Kwai Leonard? Please wake up from this dream world you are living in.

I don't know cap structure? You don't know what a mid level exception contract is

The absurd arrogance by some fans is hilarious

I want to tank, use cap space to get assets (like facilitating the LAC S&T) and go shopping when the only big contracts on the books will be KP and WHG, who will be hitting their primes, when the cap is higher

Did I say anything about signing aging guys in 2020? Nope. You came up with that in a failed attempt to strengthen your terrible argument.

Here's some of the FAs in 2019 & 2020

Harden
Kawhi
Irving
Draymond
Butler
Davis

This contract cuts into your ability to pair two of those guys with KP WHG Frank & whomever else we draft with the likely top 10 lottery picks we get the next few years.

So you sacrifice that possibility for THJ on this contract??

Yeah. I'm the crazy one

Arrogant...... You .....

What I have seen on this thread today are some of the craziest reactions I have seen in years! I am shocked that so many "Knicks fans" could be this short-sighted after so long in these forums......

Just to get this out of the way........
1)MLE counts rookie scale and min contracts as well. These contracts rarely make a differance in the free agency market. I am referring to contracts going into your 4th-5th year of service and above.You can say whatever it is you want about THJ but it doesn't change the fact that it is middle of the road for comparable players in the same max bracket and players in their 3rd free agency period.

2) Signing THJ is in no way comparable to signing 31 year old Noah to a 4 year deal at the same price for accomplishments in the past or making a quick fix trade for washed up players you think can bounce back from that injury that is 100%. The Knicks signed a player entering his prime years. This is a guy who they drafted in the first round and developed for 2 years during an all time low year with huge turnover and Phil takeover. THJ actually showed a spark when this team was on life support during that time. This MFer actually saved us from taking Russell or Okafor instead of KP!! IMO they are righting the wrong that Phil made by trading him for Jerian Grant. Stop acting like THJ can't play!!!

Now let me breakdown what this particular genious' master plans are for the Knicks in the next 3 years:

You want to tank right? Guess what buddy so do about 8 or 9 other teams this season. I am all about getting a top pick but do you know how badly you have to perform to be in the bottom 5 right now? The Knicks have enough young talent and players who give a **** this year to get over 25 wins. Being the worst is very hard. I'm sure you want to keep KP and Willy right? We are not in year one of this rebuild. Let the young guys take the reins without a giant triangle hanging over them in a system they can enjoy. They are the key at this point. We have KP, Willy and THJ who have all been named to the first team all rookie team 3 out of the last 4 years as Knicks and Frank who a lot of us feel can be a really good player we will enjoy watching develop. Keep these guys together and build on.

Ok ok ok.....you want to wait until the only 2 big contracts on the team are Willy and KP? Soooo when they are restricted free agents you will be cool with resigning them both to max contracts right? (Well duhhh they will take a discount to stay with the Knicks) Wrong! They will go out and find the team that is willing to give it to them and force the Knicks to match. Lets just estimate that in 2 years the max for a player like KP will be $27-32 million on probably a $102-110 million cap. Thats about $60 mil between both of them, not counting Frank and anyone else still on the roster because I would only assume that over these 2-3 years we have found some other young pieces to put around our guys? So lets say we have $75 mil commited to be extremely generous and about $30-35 mil in cap space. Now tell me.....which one of those guys oh wait you said 2 guys right? So which two guys from your list are coming to split $35 mil? None! Would be the correct answer. Look at the top 15 free agents list at the start of last season. How many of those guys actually left and how old are they? You know who you can sign In 4 years? 29 year old THJ who is now demanding $28 mil a year!!! This is how the market works people!!!!

Oh I really hope you have something to retort me with........

Ohhhhh and this is all that has happened before we find out the Melo situation and whether this signing creates a domino effect of moves we have been hearing about for a week now. We could somehow end up dumping $15-30 million by getting rid of most of the vets for other collectable assets and have just as much space we started with before Timmy and other pieces added.

Short-sighted like I said.......

[villaNOVA]

The second the Hawks match there won't be a damn word said about how it's a bad contract. If anything people will say they stole him from the Knicks.

Everything knicks do is bad and that is the media narrative

It's not the media narrative. It's a fact


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[FemaleDogPlease]

Tim Hardaway isn't a scrub. He isn't worth 71 million but he is a RFA. Atlanta would match a reasonable offer sheet.

[Capn'O]

this contract isn't as terrible as everyone is making it out to be, thj has become a more efficient player the past 2 seasons.

he's also going to get a lot of transition buckets if jeff gets rid of the anchor and has them running.


they took a risk on him improving more.

I think it's actually a good risk for the team. Assuming they deal Melo, he's a guy that can take some pressure off of KP while he grows into his role as a primary scorer. And he's probably a good fit for Hornacek.

Probably not so much for the franchise. But I'll just hope for the best with that one that he at worst becomes a player you can move for a better fitting piece when the time is right. What can you do, really.

Cap,

Melo is all but gone. The team is going to need scorers that can lessen pressure on KP.

That's actually almost exactly what I said first.

THJ has potential to be a positive asset despite being on a bloated contract. Look what Dipo commanded with Indiana.

Look at what FA's are coming to middling teams. Stop gaps and old veterans fishing for a paycheck. Getting a RFA gets most bang for buck as you'll have them for peak of their career.

THJ received coaching I can only wish the Knicks had. He's a grown player who excels in transition and is a real good shooter. Most of all, we add a core piece.

He's got a fairly high potential to be a productive player. His potential of being a positive asset is very low. I think this deal bites us in the ass a few years down the line - that the teams with cap space in 2-3 years are gonna get much better deals for players as the cap settles and that our roster needs going forward will be much clearer at that time - but maybe that's why I don't make the Big Bucks.