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Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE)

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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1761 » by j4remi » Tue Jan 6, 2015 8:26 pm

KnicksGod wrote:
I don't disagree with you guys a lot really, but I wouldn't bet my house that he hasn't engaged in *some* scuttlebutt chasing and taken in the chatter. Culture and step by step are important to him no doubt, it's not just rhetoric, but he also knows that if he can land a big fish, it will make other things fall into place.


For sure, if he can land Gasol or Aldridge he's gonna be all over it. But this flexibility gives him a lot of options and he's in a much better position than Walsh was. Walsh HAD to get a star and wound up maxing out uninsured Amare for more years than anyone cared to give. I don't expect Phil to panic and max out Tobias Harris or Greg Monroe because no one else will come. This dude's tenure has had ups and downs thus far, but one thing you can see is that he's never married to just one possibile outcome.
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1762 » by ORANGEandBLUE » Tue Jan 6, 2015 8:29 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
MaseInYourFace wrote:The ESPN reviews are in...


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-o ... -way-trade


all of them liked it from the knicks end, even some said we made out best in the trade

Yup... the consensus among analysts who cover the NBA and know more than us is that teams really don't value him, and that is reflected in the deal we got for him. Yet people still tout the 6MOY trophy as if we were going to be able to dump him with no strings attached.
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1763 » by MaseInYourFace » Tue Jan 6, 2015 8:30 pm

6MOY was a long time ago. Seems like 20 years ago. His value is nowhere near that high right now.
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1764 » by BeagleBoss » Tue Jan 6, 2015 8:31 pm

Nyk4lyfe wrote:Knicks Potential Plan:

1) Renounce rights to Quincy Acy, Amare Stoudemire, Andrea Bargnani, Jason Smith (this is obvious for cap hold purposes)

2) Pick up Prigionis final year (he's only 1.7mil and we need cheap bench depth) and Cleanthony Early's team option

3) Don't renounce Cole Aldrich. His cap hold is only about 950k. I believe we can hold on to him, sign whatever stars we need and THEN negotiate with him because we have bird rights on him. He will probably ask for more than 950k but that's fine because by then we wont need cap space (can someone confirm whether this is possible?)

4) Draft Jahlil Okafor (I know this is unlikely but let's assume Knicks get #1 pick so we can have the most conservative estimate of cap space for free agency). The #1 pick last year received $5,510,640 but because cap will go up, lets assume it will be an even $5,800,000. Obviously there's a good chance we end up with a lower pick, I'd be cool with Towns too.

Payroll:

Carmelo Anthony: $22,875,000
Jose Calderon: $7,402,812
Jahill Okafor: $5,800,000
Pablo Prigioni: $1,734,572
Tim Hardaway Jr: $1,675,320
Cleanthony Early: $845,059
Cole Aldrich (cap hold): $950,000
6 Cap Holds: $525,093 x 6 = $3,150,558

Projected Total: $44,433,321
Projected Salary Cap: $68,000,000 (this is not set in stone but it appears there will be a good bump in cap this summer)
Projected Salary Space: $23,566,679

5) Sign Wesley Matthews ($10 mil a year) and DeAndre Jordan ($14 mil a year). I know the projected cap is $23,566,679 and the contracts I just said is $24mil but thats the AVERAGE salary over the span of a few years. Their first year's salary will be a good amount less than $24mil and there will be raises every year. In fact, when you factor in the BASE salary and the fact that each player we sign gets rid of one cap hold, we can actually pay these guys a bit more if need be.

I would have loved to say Butler and Gasol but I don't see any player who would get the max either way on contenders come over here for the same money (or even less money cause of that extra year they can get in their original team).

6) Even once we use all our cap space (or most of it), I believe we still get to use our MLE. However, we will have the "cap roomers MLE" which is only about $2.8 mil each year for 2 years. I'd use it on a scoring option off the bench like Scola or Boozer.

7) Round out rest of bench with some 2nd round picks, overseas prospects and veteran minimums for locker room leadership.

Starting Lineup:
PG: Jose Calderon
SG: Wesley Matthews
SF: Carmelo Anthony
PF: Jahlil Okafor
C: DeAndre Jordan

Bench:
PG: Pablo Prigioni
SG: Tim Hardaway Jr.
SF: Cleanthony Early
PF: Luis Scola
C: Cole Aldrich


Great post. We now have a better understanding of exactly how much money we'll have to play with I like DeAndre's game but I don't think he's a fit in the triangle. I do believe in the Greg Monroe rumor. His strengths are more of a fit. I also wouldn't be surprised if Phil decides to go after two wing players and move Melo to the four.
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1765 » by br7knicks » Tue Jan 6, 2015 8:37 pm

ozwizard8 wrote:
br7knicks wrote:Phil convinced some idiotic GM to take JR? That automatically makes him the greatest GM of all time...

I'm crying with happiness. My students and I will be learning the common core version of hustling others into taking ****...

cuban convinced phil to get 22m/3 year calderon contract.
calderon, 34 years old. playing same level with prigioni... :banghead:

smith is former 6th man of the year, shumpert is good defender. cavs would probably get vet min contracted dalembert too..

summary:
phil get rid of:
8m/2 year contracted felton
12m/2 year contracted jr

phil got us:
22m/3 year contracted calderon

PHIL'S TRADES SUCKS for FA!

we lost expiring chandler/shumpert assets for nothing!
2015 CAP didnt get better. we could get rid of jr/felton without taking calderon's poison contract!


Shump never plays and is certainly no longer a good defender, at least not if you've watched the few games he's played.

Calderon is one of the few players on this roster who can learn the triangle, fit into it, and run it.

Felton and tyson were poisons on the locker room.

I cant believe i have to justify why JR leaving is a good thing...
JR has been the worst knicks player since al harrington. Hedo turkoglu was a former 6th man. Can't understand how people don't realize that that doesn't mean **** when you're two years removed from it... :nonono:
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1766 » by Deeeez Knicks » Tue Jan 6, 2015 8:40 pm

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
MaseInYourFace wrote:The ESPN reviews are in...


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-o ... -way-trade


all of them liked it from the knicks end, even some said we made out best in the trade

Yup... the consensus among analysts who cover the NBA and know more than us is that teams really don't value him, and that is reflected in the deal we got for him. Yet people still tout the 6MOY trophy as if we were going to be able to dump him with no strings attached.


Yup, great trade. We got rid of the 6sniff man of the year, gave up nothing we were planning to keep and got cap space, trade exception and the 2nd rounder was gravy.

No more JR!! :rockon:
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1767 » by K_ick_God » Tue Jan 6, 2015 8:44 pm

BeagleBoss wrote:
Nyk4lyfe wrote:Knicks Potential Plan:

1) Renounce rights to Quincy Acy, Amare Stoudemire, Andrea Bargnani, Jason Smith (this is obvious for cap hold purposes)

2) Pick up Prigionis final year (he's only 1.7mil and we need cheap bench depth) and Cleanthony Early's team option

3) Don't renounce Cole Aldrich. His cap hold is only about 950k. I believe we can hold on to him, sign whatever stars we need and THEN negotiate with him because we have bird rights on him. He will probably ask for more than 950k but that's fine because by then we wont need cap space (can someone confirm whether this is possible?)

4) Draft Jahlil Okafor (I know this is unlikely but let's assume Knicks get #1 pick so we can have the most conservative estimate of cap space for free agency). The #1 pick last year received $5,510,640 but because cap will go up, lets assume it will be an even $5,800,000. Obviously there's a good chance we end up with a lower pick, I'd be cool with Towns too.

Payroll:

Carmelo Anthony: $22,875,000
Jose Calderon: $7,402,812
Jahill Okafor: $5,800,000
Pablo Prigioni: $1,734,572
Tim Hardaway Jr: $1,675,320
Cleanthony Early: $845,059
Cole Aldrich (cap hold): $950,000
6 Cap Holds: $525,093 x 6 = $3,150,558

Projected Total: $44,433,321
Projected Salary Cap: $68,000,000 (this is not set in stone but it appears there will be a good bump in cap this summer)
Projected Salary Space: $23,566,679

5) Sign Wesley Matthews ($10 mil a year) and DeAndre Jordan ($14 mil a year). I know the projected cap is $23,566,679 and the contracts I just said is $24mil but thats the AVERAGE salary over the span of a few years. Their first year's salary will be a good amount less than $24mil and there will be raises every year. In fact, when you factor in the BASE salary and the fact that each player we sign gets rid of one cap hold, we can actually pay these guys a bit more if need be.

I would have loved to say Butler and Gasol but I don't see any player who would get the max either way on contenders come over here for the same money (or even less money cause of that extra year they can get in their original team).

6) Even once we use all our cap space (or most of it), I believe we still get to use our MLE. However, we will have the "cap roomers MLE" which is only about $2.8 mil each year for 2 years. I'd use it on a scoring option off the bench like Scola or Boozer.

7) Round out rest of bench with some 2nd round picks, overseas prospects and veteran minimums for locker room leadership.

Starting Lineup:
PG: Jose Calderon
SG: Wesley Matthews
SF: Carmelo Anthony
PF: Jahlil Okafor
C: DeAndre Jordan

Bench:
PG: Pablo Prigioni
SG: Tim Hardaway Jr.
SF: Cleanthony Early
PF: Luis Scola
C: Cole Aldrich


Great post. We now have a better understanding of exactly how much money we'll have to play with I like DeAndre's game but I don't think he's a fit in the triangle. I do believe in the Greg Monroe rumor. His strengths are more of a fit. I also wouldn't be surprised if Phil decides to go after two wing players and move Melo to the four.


This is a good post. It does show all the numbers, even if I don't agree with the outcome (thinking smaller) or some of the individual ideas. But it's solid looks like. Shows you where we'll stand.
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1768 » by sol537 » Tue Jan 6, 2015 8:51 pm

S&T Timmy, Calderón, two 2nds to Orlando for Harris at 10 mil

Throw Max at Gasol or Aldridge

Draft mudiay or trade pick for a top flight PG

Contend.
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1769 » by K_ick_God » Tue Jan 6, 2015 8:52 pm

Should be fascinating to see what happens with Shump's restricted free agency. Cavs will probably keep him no matter what, unless Bron bolts or something. JR could also opt out if he has a strong playoff run ... lol ... wouldn't shock me that much if Bron really gets on him.
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1770 » by PMFJB » Tue Jan 6, 2015 8:53 pm

Why not go for broke and trade our pick after we select it for Cousins?
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1771 » by bigfnjoe96 » Tue Jan 6, 2015 8:54 pm

PMFJB wrote:Why not go for broke and trade our pick after we select it for Cousins?


Don't be Dat Dude......
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1772 » by PMFJB » Tue Jan 6, 2015 8:56 pm

bigfnjoe96 wrote:
PMFJB wrote:Why not go for broke and trade our pick after we select it for Cousins?


Don't be Dat Dude......

Haha ok.
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1773 » by thebuzzardman » Tue Jan 6, 2015 9:03 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:I'm gonna put this here since it's a lively thread:

Just listening to a podcast with Woodson's favourite Beno Udrih, he was asked about the Knicks. Here's what he's saying:

- Too much off-court distraction in New York and some players can't handle it professionally. - JR Smith, Shump
- It's ridiculous how they let every single thing that happens in the locker room leak out to the press. - Herb Williams
- One player was late to the pre-game meeting and workout last year by 45 minutes and he played 40+ minutes that game. Another player was 1 minute late for a breakfast meeting in Charlotte and he got benched for that game. Double standards were hurting team chemistry. JR Smith\Hello Beno!
- Knicks have awesome jerseys.
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1774 » by ozwizard8 » Tue Jan 6, 2015 9:04 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
ozwizard8 wrote:tyson+shumpert for perkins+filler+1st round pick. they could do that without shumpert...

okc would get chandler and he would play like in dallas. shumpert would provide good sg contribution. they send 1st pick for chucker dion waiters(jr's lost brother) .
you can find more of it.

if its entertaining to think like KNICKS DID A TRADE WE'RE SO GREAT! JACKSON IS THE KING OF TANKING HURRAY!! then continue..


so let me get this straight. You want to trade Tyson Chandler and Iman Shumpert 17 million for perkins 9 million. You would need to find 4 million more of filler which is tough because they wouldn't want to trade there young good guys like Jackson and Lamb.

But lets say you got a few fillers in the trade.

1 late first round pick is more valuable than Larkin, Early, Thanasis, 2019 2nd round pick and ridding two dead weight contracts of JR Smith and Raymond Felton.

GTFO!

you dont know any ****.

who is larkin? thanasis... yea so much value!! no one cares about them. early? he's not top 30 potential.

we lost our assets.
tyson chandler is top 10 center!
shumpert can be starter or good bench player in rookie contract.

we get rid of jr+felton contract and got worser calderon contract.
34 year old pg who cant defend and you expect him to learn triangle!!
he dont deserve 7.4m for a team targetin FA!

STFU!
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1775 » by PMFJB » Tue Jan 6, 2015 9:04 pm

bigfnjoe96 wrote:
PMFJB wrote:Why not go for broke and trade our pick after we select it for Cousins?


Don't be Dat Dude......

Actually if its not the 1st pick. I would trade anyone not named Okafor for Cousins.
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1776 » by mpharris36 » Tue Jan 6, 2015 9:04 pm

sol537 wrote:S&T Timmy, Calderón, two 2nds to Orlando for Harris at 10 mil

Throw Max at Gasol or Aldridge

Draft mudiay or trade pick for a top flight PG

Contend.


We are trying to build roster stability. At this point I don't see the point in paying Harris (a poor version of Melo big money).

I dig the fact he is a knicks fan and wants to come home. But we need to be smart about our money. Too many times in the past we just got talented players and just thought everyone would fit. Basketball is just as much about fit as it is about talent.

I would rather just trade Timmy and Calderon for a couple of picks and another TPE and or expiring. Then use our TPE to facilitate some deals and pick up future 2nd rounders.

I like the idea of having Melo + a top 3 pick plus max cap space for 2 players. Could really get interesting especially in the West. If Portland or Memphis get kicked out early which is a legit possibility.
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1777 » by K_ick_God » Tue Jan 6, 2015 9:12 pm

ozwizard8 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
ozwizard8 wrote:tyson+shumpert for perkins+filler+1st round pick. they could do that without shumpert...

okc would get chandler and he would play like in dallas. shumpert would provide good sg contribution. they send 1st pick for chucker dion waiters(jr's lost brother) .
you can find more of it.

if its entertaining to think like KNICKS DID A TRADE WE'RE SO GREAT! JACKSON IS THE KING OF TANKING HURRAY!! then continue..


so let me get this straight. You want to trade Tyson Chandler and Iman Shumpert 17 million for perkins 9 million. You would need to find 4 million more of filler which is tough because they wouldn't want to trade there young good guys like Jackson and Lamb.

But lets say you got a few fillers in the trade.

1 late first round pick is more valuable than Larkin, Early, Thanasis, 2019 2nd round pick and ridding two dead weight contracts of JR Smith and Raymond Felton.

GTFO!

you dont know any ****.

who is larkin? thanasis... yea so much value!! no one cares about them. early? he's not top 30 potential.

we lost our assets.
tyson chandler is top 10 center!
shumpert can be starter or good bench player in rookie contract.

we get rid of jr+felton contract and got worser calderon contract.
34 year old pg who cant defend and you expect him to learn triangle!!
he dont deserve 7.4m for a team targetin FA!

STFU!


You made a number of extreme statements but one thing stands out as just factually wrong -- where is Shumpert going to be on a rookie contract next year? He expires this year. But that's not even your silliest statement.

The Knicks have next to no assets, that's the point. Trading a pick for Bargs was terrible, trading a lot of our stuff for crap was terrible. Who was left? Shump has value to YOU. He's been a big disaster lately. I loved the guy and blame the Knicks but you don't get top value for a guy who has shown so little since his rookie season when he looked promising. Thud. That was the sound of Shump falling apart in almost every way.

JR is a bum. Everyone in the league knows he sucks and is not serious about being a good player. The fact that the Cavs even got him should make us think that their situation is at least somewhat unstable.

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Tyson was not much of an asset. Maybe we could have gotten more but it's not clear. We'd have to have found an expiring and also gotten something back on top of that -- hard to do and find. If Rondo only gets a protected pick, then Tyson won't get much. Rondo is still a prime player who has led a team to a title. Tyson was a nice dirtywork big on a title ride on Dirk's coattails. Now Tyson is old. Protected pick for Tyson maybe, okay. Well a 2nd round pick and a protected first are not worlds and worlds apart so try to get some perspective.

You're hoodwinking yourself :lol:
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1778 » by kingquan316 » Tue Jan 6, 2015 9:13 pm

ozwizard8 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
ozwizard8 wrote:tyson+shumpert for perkins+filler+1st round pick. they could do that without shumpert...

okc would get chandler and he would play like in dallas. shumpert would provide good sg contribution. they send 1st pick for chucker dion waiters(jr's lost brother) .
you can find more of it.

if its entertaining to think like KNICKS DID A TRADE WE'RE SO GREAT! JACKSON IS THE KING OF TANKING HURRAY!! then continue..


so let me get this straight. You want to trade Tyson Chandler and Iman Shumpert 17 million for perkins 9 million. You would need to find 4 million more of filler which is tough because they wouldn't want to trade there young good guys like Jackson and Lamb.

But lets say you got a few fillers in the trade.

1 late first round pick is more valuable than Larkin, Early, Thanasis, 2019 2nd round pick and ridding two dead weight contracts of JR Smith and Raymond Felton.

GTFO!

you dont know any ****.

who is larkin? thanasis... yea so much value!! no one cares about them. early? he's not top 30 potential.

we lost our assets.
tyson chandler is top 10 center!
shumpert can be starter or good bench player in rookie contract.

we get rid of jr+felton contract and got worser calderon contract.
34 year old pg who cant defend and you expect him to learn triangle!!
he dont deserve 7.4m for a team targetin FA!

STFU!


Fisher couldn't defend, was 34 when they won the title with Jackson, and thrived in the triangle due to his lethal shot, which is a strength of Calderon.

Sounds like u don't like Phil's moves, that's ur opinion, more power to u. But seriously......

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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1779 » by ozwizard8 » Tue Jan 6, 2015 9:18 pm

Nyk4lyfe wrote:Knicks Potential Plan:

1) Renounce rights to Quincy Acy, Amare Stoudemire, Andrea Bargnani, Jason Smith (this is obvious for cap hold purposes)

2) Pick up Prigionis final year (he's only 1.7mil and we need cheap bench depth) and Cleanthony Early's team option

3) Don't renounce Cole Aldrich. His cap hold is only about 950k. I believe we can hold on to him, sign whatever stars we need and THEN negotiate with him because we have bird rights on him. He will probably ask for more than 950k but that's fine because by then we wont need cap space (can someone confirm whether this is possible?)

4) Draft Jahlil Okafor (I know this is unlikely but let's assume Knicks get #1 pick so we can have the most conservative estimate of cap space for free agency). The #1 pick last year received $5,510,640 but because cap will go up, lets assume it will be an even $5,800,000. Obviously there's a good chance we end up with a lower pick, I'd be cool with Towns too.

Payroll:

Carmelo Anthony: $22,875,000
Jose Calderon: $7,402,812
Jahill Okafor: $5,800,000
Pablo Prigioni: $1,734,572
Tim Hardaway Jr: $1,675,320
Cleanthony Early: $845,059
Cole Aldrich (cap hold): $950,000
6 Cap Holds: $525,093 x 6 = $3,150,558

Projected Total: $44,433,321
Projected Salary Cap: $68,000,000 (this is not set in stone but it appears there will be a good bump in cap this summer)
Projected Salary Space: $23,566,679

5) Sign Wesley Matthews ($10 mil a year) and DeAndre Jordan ($14 mil a year). I know the projected cap is $23,566,679 and the contracts I just said is $24mil but thats the AVERAGE salary over the span of a few years. Their first year's salary will be a good amount less than $24mil and there will be raises every year. In fact, when you factor in the BASE salary and the fact that each player we sign gets rid of one cap hold, we can actually pay these guys a bit more if need be.

I would have loved to say Butler and Gasol but I don't see any player who would get the max either way on contenders come over here for the same money (or even less money cause of that extra year they can get in their original team).

6) Even once we use all our cap space (or most of it), I believe we still get to use our MLE. However, we will have the "cap roomers MLE" which is only about $2.8 mil each year for 2 years. I'd use it on a scoring option off the bench like Scola or Boozer.

7) Round out rest of bench with some 2nd round picks, overseas prospects and veteran minimums for locker room leadership.

Starting Lineup:
PG: Jose Calderon
SG: Wesley Matthews
SF: Carmelo Anthony
PF: Jahlil Okafor
C: DeAndre Jordan

Bench:
PG: Pablo Prigioni
SG: Tim Hardaway Jr.
SF: Cleanthony Early
PF: Luis Scola
C: Cole Aldrich

good post to sum up;
d.jordan would help our D but he wont fit in triangle ideally. monroe is better for triangle but his defense sucks.. tough call.
also this squad lacks perimeter defense. neither starting guards or bench ones can defend. matthews can defend mediocre but he's not lock-up defender.

lets hope phil convince marc gasol. if we pack calderon somewhere and try to acquire butler+gasol, dragic+gasol our chances would be higher.
PMFJB
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Re: Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE) 

Post#1780 » by PMFJB » Tue Jan 6, 2015 9:23 pm

The only players I want are LMA/Gasol/Matthews/Dragic/Lopez.

I want nothing to do with Deandre, Milsap, a worse Melo in Tobias or Danny Green.

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