The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread

[thebuzzardman]

just want to see the kid continue to develop.

i'm not on some tanking, but i would love to see some coagulation with our young nucleus.

DSJ, RJ, frank, knox, randle, mitch all securely in the rotation and growing together should be what we see. vets to fortify them, not take away.

play to win, but not at their expense. they could all be keepers.

+Trier, + Iggy

not counting them or dot out. i was just thinking of the core rotation players to a winner. they might not quite be my focus. but i do want them to play and continue to develop. trier can be a bucket when he isn't jr smithing.

Probably a bit of semantics here, but I don't rule Trier out anymore than I'd rule Frank or Knox or Mitch or DSJr in, with a "bye" on RJ and Iggy, as they haven't played an NBA game yet, though obviously there is the strong assumption that a guy drafted #3 is being looked at carefully to be part of the core in the future.

I don't see Knox or Frank, especially, as any more "winning" players than Trier, in that all are flawed, and all are not exactly who they'll be in the future. Trier with the highest floor, lowest ceiling (maybe) of the 3, coming into the situation a bit older and with 3 years of college etc.

I do know that outside of KP, Trier was the first Knick rookie in a while to come in and just not be denied, in terms of getting to play and contributing.

Anyway, still agree with your overall point.

Again, like last year, though another step in the process, the Knicks are auditioning their role players and bench, if you will, hoping maybe RJ or Randle or anyone else steps up as a #1 or #2 type at some point, though I'd guess the Knicks figure that individual will come along in a lucky draft, or free agency, unless they feel it's RJ, but he'll need a couple of years.

Still, I like the approach of having a enough young guys to be a part of something for the next 5 years, while not capping the team out, and having some decent vets around the young guys.

[taj2133]

If Frank continues to improve and become what most envision, I see Dotson as the odd man out. I’d rather pair DSJR/ Frank and Payton/Trier. Plus Dotson is the oldest of the group.

Dotson played well last season and surprise the coaching staff and perry. Lets be real here perry wouldn't have exercise his option if he didn't want dotson around.

[GONYK]

Watch on YouTube

One thing I've noted many times since drafting Frank is he has usually been competent at dribbling into traffic.

What is different now is he is no longer hesitating so he is driving to wherever he sees openings on the floor and popping or taking the lane to the rim. Therefore, the difference is he goes into traffic or seams and pockets with the intent to score. Before, he'd navigate to an opening and then freeze or pass it off, but never consider himself THE scoring option even though he was the one with the ball. That tendency has flipped now to the right mindset.

He looks good. This is all he really needed to do.

He's making his reads and reacting quickly, shooting quickly which = fluidity. Once you start to flow you build confidence. It's happening now.

And Frank finally believes he can make teams pay if they don't play him tight. As his outside shot becomes a real threat it will open the floor up to drive even more and keep defenders on their heels.

watching this led me to this game:

Watch on YouTube

one of the very few great home wins that season. watching this - it must have been many years ago. how many of this players are still on the roster now?

This is what people forget. Look at that game. I can provide a bunch of other similar performances from Frank during the first half of his rookie year.

He used to play free. He had confidence. He didn't hesitate to pull shots in the 4th qtr. He hit a few clutch buckets his rookie year.

Hornacek basically killed his confidence and kept a short leash on him in order to chase wins with Jarret Jack. Fiz continued that trend out of incompetence.

Frank didn't enter the NBA that way.

He's finding himself again playing with the French team.

[Jeff Van Gully]

I want the Knicks to go big once in awhile. Frank/RJ/Morris/Randle/Mitch is a good offense/defense balance and would force teams to adjust. I actually don't think you could small ball that squad off the court but I'm speculating.

morris and randle would alternate having trouble keeping up with quicker forwards. but that's a good big lineup.

I don't think we'll ever see Randle at SF. He's a 4-5.

Portis is a 4-5

Morris is a 3-4

Knox is a 3-4

RJ Is a 3-2

agreed. but wasn't talking about position. was just talking about speed either could face as defenders.

randle will be your 4 and might have someone faster. morris will see a LOT of 3s faster than himself. and in switches and coverage schemes, both players are at risk of having to cover someone quick.

[Jeff Van Gully]

+Trier, + Iggy

not counting them or dot out. i was just thinking of the core rotation players to a winner. they might not quite be my focus. but i do want them to play and continue to develop. trier can be a bucket when he isn't jr smithing.

Probably a bit of semantics here, but I don't rule Trier out anymore than I'd rule Frank or Knox or Mitch or DSJr in, with a "bye" on RJ and Iggy, as they haven't played an NBA game yet, though obviously there is the strong assumption that a guy drafted #3 is being looked at carefully to be part of the core in the future.

I don't see Knox or Frank, especially, as any more "winning" players than Trier, in that all are flawed, and all are not exactly who they'll be in the future. Trier with the highest floor, lowest ceiling (maybe) of the 3, coming into the situation a bit older and with 3 years of college etc.

I do know that outside of KP, Trier was the first Knick rookie in a while to come in and just not be denied, in terms of getting to play and contributing.

Anyway, still agree with your overall point.

Again, like last year, though another step in the process, the Knicks are auditioning their role players and bench, if you will, hoping maybe RJ or Randle or anyone else steps up as a #1 or #2 type at some point, though I'd guess the Knicks figure that individual will come along in a lucky draft, or free agency, unless they feel it's RJ, but he'll need a couple of years.

Still, I like the approach of having a enough young guys to be a part of something for the next 5 years, while not capping the team out, and having some decent vets around the young guys.

not semantics. all completely valid points. i wasn't trying to paint trier as a non-winner. i was looking at the rotation i created and thought about what they would need out of players 9 and 10.

[j4remi]

morris and randle would alternate having trouble keeping up with quicker forwards. but that's a good big lineup.

I don't think we'll ever see Randle at SF. He's a 4-5.

Portis is a 4-5

Morris is a 3-4

Knox is a 3-4

RJ Is a 3-2

agreed. but wasn't talking about position. was just talking about speed either could face as defenders.

randle will be your 4 and might have someone faster. morris will see a LOT of 3s faster than himself. and in switches and coverage schemes, both players are at risk of having to cover someone quick.

My speculation is you could run a switch heavy system thanks to the flexibility of these guys and with the ground and awareness on defense from Frank and Mitch, you'd have the sort of help defense that could cover for the Forwards.

[thebuzzardman]

not counting them or dot out. i was just thinking of the core rotation players to a winner. they might not quite be my focus. but i do want them to play and continue to develop. trier can be a bucket when he isn't jr smithing.

Probably a bit of semantics here, but I don't rule Trier out anymore than I'd rule Frank or Knox or Mitch or DSJr in, with a "bye" on RJ and Iggy, as they haven't played an NBA game yet, though obviously there is the strong assumption that a guy drafted #3 is being looked at carefully to be part of the core in the future.

I don't see Knox or Frank, especially, as any more "winning" players than Trier, in that all are flawed, and all are not exactly who they'll be in the future. Trier with the highest floor, lowest ceiling (maybe) of the 3, coming into the situation a bit older and with 3 years of college etc.

I do know that outside of KP, Trier was the first Knick rookie in a while to come in and just not be denied, in terms of getting to play and contributing.

Anyway, still agree with your overall point.

Again, like last year, though another step in the process, the Knicks are auditioning their role players and bench, if you will, hoping maybe RJ or Randle or anyone else steps up as a #1 or #2 type at some point, though I'd guess the Knicks figure that individual will come along in a lucky draft, or free agency, unless they feel it's RJ, but he'll need a couple of years.

Still, I like the approach of having a enough young guys to be a part of something for the next 5 years, while not capping the team out, and having some decent vets around the young guys.

not semantics. all completely valid points. i wasn't trying to paint trier as a non-winner. i was looking at the rotation i created and thought about what they would need out of players 9 and 10.

No, I realize what you were doing with Trier.

Anyway, back to this season and the rotation - Knicks have a few too many players, or actually, in a way "too much depth", though, of course, that's never a bad thing and is a good thing. Basically, some decent players will be DNP's until a trade happens, if a trade happens.

[Maury2423]

I still remember that home game vs the Pacers when we made a huge comeback when Frank got on the floor. His chemistry with KP was beautiful to watch and Frank hit a HUGE 3 late in the game too. He had a handful of similar games throughout his rookie year but as many of you mentioned, Jack was given priority by Hornacek.

[thebuzzardman]

I don't think we'll ever see Randle at SF. He's a 4-5.

Portis is a 4-5

Morris is a 3-4

Knox is a 3-4

RJ Is a 3-2

agreed. but wasn't talking about position. was just talking about speed either could face as defenders.

randle will be your 4 and might have someone faster. morris will see a LOT of 3s faster than himself. and in switches and coverage schemes, both players are at risk of having to cover someone quick.

My speculation is you could run a switch heavy system thanks to the flexibility of these guys and with the ground and awareness on defense from Frank and Mitch, you'd have the sort of help defense that could cover for the Forwards.

I was talking about this very thing today with someone. Knicks got a decent amount of height, positional flexibility and athleticism, so they should be able to switch on defense and even create some interesting looks on offense, though jury is out how effective they might be, but a number of guys who can play 2/3 and 3/4 and 4/5, on offense and defense, or one or the other.

Interesting to see what lineups they ultimately settle of if speed becomes the issue, often. Anyway you slice it, Morris and Randle are going to see enough minutes, or the fact you don't want Randle taking too many minutes at 5 away from Mitch, that both will see that time at 3 and 4, but it may turn out that RJ winds up at the 3.

I've always, more for sorting it in my mind, have Mitch going out first and Knox in, and that starting the line up shuffle from 4 to 5, 3 to 4 and Knox to 3, but it could as easily be Trier, or even Frank or Dotson coming at the #2, with Mitch going out and every one but the PG moving one position "bigger".

Knox could still come in, either at 3 or 4.

Keep coming back to the fact that Fiz has a LOT of options

PG's:
DSJr, Payton, Frank

Guards and Wings
DsJr, Payton, Frank, RJ, Trier, Dotson, Knox, Iggy, Ellington, Knox, Morris, Bullock

PF
Randle, Morris, Knox, Iggy (maybe), Portis, Gibson

C
Mitch, Randle, Portis, Gibson

[HerSports85]

If Frank continues to improve and become what most envision, I see Dotson as the odd man out. I’d rather pair DSJR/ Frank and Payton/Trier. Plus Dotson is the oldest of the group.

Dotson played well last season and surprise the coaching staff and perry. Lets be real here perry wouldn't have exercise his option if he didn't want dotson around.

I guess if all depends on how Dotson looks post surgery. I’ve seen some guys come back better after shoulder surgery and some never fully recovered and became less efficient. A lot of questions should be answered in preseason ...

[F N 11]

Frankie bring that confidence into the season baby!! fuq a hater!

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Keep coming back to the fact that Fiz has a TOO MANY options and almost all of them are UNINSPIRING

PG's:
DSJr, Payton, Frank

Guards and Wings
DsJr, Payton, Frank, RJ, Trier, Dotson, Knox, Iggy, Ellington, Knox, Morris, Bullock

PF
Randle, Morris, Knox, Iggy (maybe), Portis, Gibson

C
Mitch, Randle, Portis, Gibson

fyp

I still, also, don't see how this isn't a bloodbath in terms of playing time requirements/wishes.

[HarthorneWingo]

If Frank continues to improve and become what most envision, I see Dotson as the odd man out. I’d rather pair DSJR/ Frank and Payton/Trier. Plus Dotson is the oldest of the group.

Dotson played well last season and surprise the coaching staff and perry. Lets be real here perry wouldn't have exercise his option if he didn't want dotson around.

I guess if all depends on how Dotson looks post surgery. I’ve seen some guys come back better after shoulder surgery and some never fully recovered and became less efficient. A lot of questions should be answered in preseason ...

Was it his rotator cuff or this Louie Labrum?

[2010]

I've watched the highlights from Frank's latest game many times over now. My biggest takeaway is there is zero hesitation on offense from him now. He was attacking wherever he saw an opening and playing by feel instead of overthinking things.

On his forays into the paint, although it still looks awkward I think that kinda works for him. He has such long arms it will benefit him to keep taking layup attempts from odd angles and appearing to jump off the wrong foot at times. All that length will serve to keep the defender at bay and off timing in shotblock attempts. This can cancel out Frank's lack of explosiveness and quickness.

I know Fiz teaches finishing ability with drills to purposely take weird angles for shot-attempts off the glass and jumping off the wrong foot. Even for taking an extra step before finishing. He worked with Wade and other Miami Heat players on this and they credit him. So does Mike Conley in Memphis.

Maybe Fiz has passed some of these drills and tutelage along to Frank. But he was definitely taking more unorthodox looks on his shot attempts in the lane (using some english off the glass, oddly timed floaters, pull-up jumpers and hesi-moves, etc.)

If Frank can develop some true craft to his game it may not always look fluid or pretty but it can be effective with all that length.

[thebuzzardman]

Keep coming back to the fact that Fiz has a TOO MANY options and almost all of them are UNINSPIRING

PG's:
DSJr, Payton, Frank

Guards and Wings
DsJr, Payton, Frank, RJ, Trier, Dotson, Knox, Iggy, Ellington, Knox, Morris, Bullock

PF
Randle, Morris, Knox, Iggy (maybe), Portis, Gibson

C
Mitch, Randle, Portis, Gibson

fyp

I still, also, don't see how this isn't a bloodbath in terms of playing time requirements/wishes.

Playing time requirements will be a problem.

I think there are some good line ups among those players, especially if RJ can be an immediate contributor.

[3toheadmelo]

I've watched the highlights from Frank's latest game many times over now. My biggest takeaway is there is zero hesitation on offense from him now. He was attacking wherever he saw an opening and playing by feel instead of overthinking things.

On his forays into the paint, although it still looks awkward I think that kinda works for him. He has such long arms it will benefit him to keep taking layup attempts from odd angles and appearing to jump off the wrong foot at times. All that length will serve to keep the defender at bay and off timing in shotblock attempts. This can cancel out Frank's lack of explosiveness and quickness.

I know Fiz teaches finishing ability with drills to purposely take weird angles for shot-attempts off the glass and jumping off the wrong foot. Even for taking an extra step before finishing. He worked with Wade and other Miami Heat players on this and they credit him. So does Mike Conley in Memphis.

Maybe Fiz has passed some of these drills and tutelage along to Frank. But he was definitely taking more unorthodox looks on his shot attempts in the lane (using some english off the glass, oddly timed floaters, pull-up jumpers and hesi-moves, etc.)

If Frank can develop some true craft to his game it may not always look fluid or pretty but it can be effective with all that length.

Dude looks like a different player to me. Sky’s the limit for him if he keeps playing like this and improving his game. I’m ready to be served my crow.

[2010]

I've watched the highlights from Frank's latest game many times over now. My biggest takeaway is there is zero hesitation on offense from him now. He was attacking wherever he saw an opening and playing by feel instead of overthinking things.

On his forays into the paint, although it still looks awkward I think that kinda works for him. He has such long arms it will benefit him to keep taking layup attempts from odd angles and appearing to jump off the wrong foot at times. All that length will serve to keep the defender at bay and off timing in shotblock attempts. This can cancel out Frank's lack of explosiveness and quickness.

I know Fiz teaches finishing ability with drills to purposely take weird angles for shot-attempts off the glass and jumping off the wrong foot. Even for taking an extra step before finishing. He worked with Wade and other Miami Heat players on this and they credit him. So does Mike Conley in Memphis.

Maybe Fiz has passed some of these drills and tutelage along to Frank. But he was definitely taking more unorthodox looks on his shot attempts in the lane (using some english off the glass, oddly timed floaters, pull-up jumpers and hesi-moves, etc.)

If Frank can develop some true craft to his game it may not always look fluid or pretty but it can be effective with all that length.

Dude looks like a different player to me. Sky’s the limit for him if he keeps playing like this and improving his game. I’m ready to be served my crow.

Here you go ready to risk it all over FIBA performances

(BaF reference, some of y'all wouldn't understand)

Spoiler:

...I will wait until he plays like this in the NBA regular season before I am prepared to order my organic crow dish.

[3toheadmelo]

I've watched the highlights from Frank's latest game many times over now. My biggest takeaway is there is zero hesitation on offense from him now. He was attacking wherever he saw an opening and playing by feel instead of overthinking things.

On his forays into the paint, although it still looks awkward I think that kinda works for him. He has such long arms it will benefit him to keep taking layup attempts from odd angles and appearing to jump off the wrong foot at times. All that length will serve to keep the defender at bay and off timing in shotblock attempts. This can cancel out Frank's lack of explosiveness and quickness.

I know Fiz teaches finishing ability with drills to purposely take weird angles for shot-attempts off the glass and jumping off the wrong foot. Even for taking an extra step before finishing. He worked with Wade and other Miami Heat players on this and they credit him. So does Mike Conley in Memphis.

Maybe Fiz has passed some of these drills and tutelage along to Frank. But he was definitely taking more unorthodox looks on his shot attempts in the lane (using some english off the glass, oddly timed floaters, pull-up jumpers and hesi-moves, etc.)

If Frank can develop some true craft to his game it may not always look fluid or pretty but it can be effective with all that length.

Dude looks like a different player to me. Sky’s the limit for him if he keeps playing like this and improving his game. I’m ready to be served my crow.

Here you go ready to risk it all over FIBA performances

(BaF reference, some of y'all wouldn't understand)

Spoiler:

...I will wait until he plays like this in the NBA regular season before I am prepared to order my organic crow dish.

Spoiler:

LOL I meant to say I’m ready for my crow if he plays like this in the season

[GONYK]

I've watched the highlights from Frank's latest game many times over now. My biggest takeaway is there is zero hesitation on offense from him now. He was attacking wherever he saw an opening and playing by feel instead of overthinking things.

On his forays into the paint, although it still looks awkward I think that kinda works for him. He has such long arms it will benefit him to keep taking layup attempts from odd angles and appearing to jump off the wrong foot at times. All that length will serve to keep the defender at bay and off timing in shotblock attempts. This can cancel out Frank's lack of explosiveness and quickness.

I know Fiz teaches finishing ability with drills to purposely take weird angles for shot-attempts off the glass and jumping off the wrong foot. Even for taking an extra step before finishing. He worked with Wade and other Miami Heat players on this and they credit him. So does Mike Conley in Memphis.

Maybe Fiz has passed some of these drills and tutelage along to Frank. But he was definitely taking more unorthodox looks on his shot attempts in the lane (using some english off the glass, oddly timed floaters, pull-up jumpers and hesi-moves, etc.)

If Frank can develop some true craft to his game it may not always look fluid or pretty but it can be effective with all that length.

Dude looks like a different player to me. Sky’s the limit for him if he keeps playing like this and improving his game. I’m ready to be served my crow.

I think we're seeing Frank finally getting comfortable with his body and how to use it.

He always shot from weird angles around the basket, but the additional strength and bulk is allowing him to maintain his control better.

Plus his handle has taken a big jump.

Hopefully it translates.

[GONYK]

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