2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2

[NewKnicks]

For those who have not seen much of Jalen Green..

I know we have no shot at getting him, but thought I'd post the videos. Future star.

Take into consideration that he's playing against professionals here. Those are men he's going against mostly, not kids in college.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[NewKnicks]

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I really like the idea of Tre Mann for that Mavs pick. The only negative I can think of taking him there is his game is similar to Quickley’s.

His game reminds me of a Jamal Murray/Jordan Clarkson type player, obviously not as good but just like those guys I think if he gets hot it would be really hard to stop him. Plus all three are really good scoring off of screens.

I like Tre, but he definitely looks like a player that will need time to compete at the next level. Not a knock on him at all, but he needs to get a lot stronger. Which you could say about most young players in a draft. The skill is there, though.

[NewKnicks]

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I know we don't like old rookies here (Duarte close to 24)

but Duarte's shooting and defense at his position is elite. He also can drive and isn't predictable, he changes his moves depending on what the defense gives him. He doesn't turn it over alot and he's a great help defender, almost averaging 2 steals and 1 block per game. He's basically Francisco Garcia (who was longer than Chris at 6"7/6"8) without the injuries.

If Duarte is available at 21, Knicks should grab him. This saves us in two ways.

Duarte, as an individual would provide Alec shooting and Frank defense by himself, plus more. We fill our 3 and D role because we really dont have one with Bullock and Burks who are good shooters but not clamp type defenders....and Frank who's elite at defense but provides no offense.

This also would give SPACE to RJ Barrett's driving and slashing.


I'm all for drafting Cam Thomas at 15 range btw. Hope we get him and Duarte. They would really look nice to Quickley and Barrett as a young core.

He looks like he can be a productive pro, but I'm passing bigtime due to age. It's really such a huge factor in the NBA right now. Imagine if he still takes 3-4 years to figure it out in the league? We're looking at a 27-28 year old player.

Huge pass just because of age. I'd rather go after Ayo or Sharife with that Mavs pick.

Don't take this as me ripping on his game, though. I just can't have an Obi part 2 on our squad.

[NewKnicks]

CBS Sports latest most compares Barnes to Patrick Williams, which I said last week. Their games are a little different, as Barnes is a little bigger with longer arms, and he prefers a point-forward situation where he will demand the ball a little more than Williams, but there are a lot of similarities in their games. Williams at this point looks like a better shooter long-term, but that won't be determined for some time. Barnes could improve a lot (and obviously Williams will probably also improve) ala RJ/Jaylen Brown. He has good form and will put in the work.

Williams and Barnes seem to be really hard workers, play with a lot of hustle, grit, and are not afraid to bang with the bigs down low. They project Barnes to be a small forward, which I agree with too. He's not a big that will be stationed under the hoop, looking for a post up. He's going to be a HUGE 3&D guy, who can guard multiple positions very effectively.

He can also create his own shot, and has the ability to drive the lane and finish.

Williams definitely takes the W in the midrange game, which is one of his biggest strengths. It's still up in the air if Barnes will ever get to Williams level.

Both are very solid rebounders.

Barnes has a better facilitator game already, as he loves to get his teammates involved. Williams tends to hang around the 3 point line, where he takes open 3's, or pump fakes to get around his defender and drive to the hoop.

They both have good natural instinct for the flow of the game, and execute timely cuts to the basket so their teammates can get them the ball going to hoop for a layup or a dunk.

I'd say Barnes is the 'flashier' player as well. He loves to dunk on people and play with fire and energy. Both are dogs in that regard, but Williams prefers to keep his head down and not show a lot of emotion.

Last thing.. when you play on a squad led by Leonard Hamilton, you're not going light up the stat board compared to other teams where players have the freedom to take shots when they want. Hamilton knows what he's doing, and produces really good NBA players.

10.) SACRAMENTO KINGS: SCOTTIE BARNES (FLATE SEMNOLES)

(Photo: Courtesy of the ACC)
Position: Small Forward | Height: 6’9 | Weight: 227 pounds

CBS Sports: “There is very real concern about how good Barnes is -- and will be -- as a player on offense in the NBA. Outside of his handles and passing, there's a lot of work left for him to reach his ceiling. But he's 6-foot-8 with a 7-foot-2 wingspan who can defend at a high level and has the physical tools to be a lottery pick.”

247Sports: NBA scouts will have to take a closer look at Scottie Barnes. The counting stats casts a perception that he did not have a strong season at Florida State. He averaged 10.3 points, 4.0 rebounds and 4.1 assists. There is also the fact that he scored just 18 total points in three games during the NCAA Tournament. The truth is that Barnes is prepared for the next level. Florida State head coach Leonard Hamilton is one of the best in the business. He plays a lot of guys and Barnes did not have to score every night. However, Barnes did have to play defense at an exceptional level. He can switch to different positions and averaged 1.5 steals this season. NBA scouts understand that the NBA potential is there. Athletic forwards have become valuable for their ability to switch and guard multiple positions. Barnes can do that as soon as he steps onto an NBA court. Consider Barnes much like former Florida State star Patrick Williams. Defense got Williams onto the court with the Chicago Bulls. It also made him the fourth overall pick in the 2020 NBA Draft. Williams is shining in the second half of his rookie season. Barnes has the ability to follow a similar path.

[bleedblue3303]

For those who have not seen much of Jalen Green..

I know we have no shot at getting him, but thought I'd post the videos. Future star.

Take into consideration that he's playing against professionals here. Those are men he's going against mostly, not kids in college.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I actually believe he has the potential to be the best player in this whole draft. Personally I would trade Randle to get him and have Green and RJ as our 2 wing players for the next 10 years

[NewKnicks]

For those who have not seen much of Jalen Green..

I know we have no shot at getting him, but thought I'd post the videos. Future star.

Take into consideration that he's playing against professionals here. Those are men he's going against mostly, not kids in college.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I actually believe he has the potential to be the best player in this whole draft. Personally I would trade Randle to get him and have Green and RJ as our 2 wing players for the next 10 years

Sign me up for that! But the teams in the top 5 are not giving up their picks. Too much superstar potential with all five.

I'd love to any of the top 4. I don't care which one.

Cade
Suggs
Mobley
Green

All potential superstars. Kominga could be as well, but I'd prefer the top 4 over him. Green could easily end up as the best player in this draft. Agree 100%.

[WargamesX]

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I really like the idea of Tre Mann for that Mavs pick. The only negative I can think of taking him there is his game is similar to Quickley’s.

His game reminds me of a Jamal Murray/Jordan Clarkson type player, obviously not as good but just like those guys I think if he gets hot it would be really hard to stop him. Plus all three are really good scoring off of screens.

I like Tre, but he definitely looks like a player that will need time to compete at the next level. Not a knock on him at all, but he needs to get a lot stronger. Which you could say about most young players in a draft. The skill is there, though.

I would love if the knicks took flyers on Ziaire, Mann, and then got some really good strength trainers. Knox and Obi need it severely as well. Just put them in the gym, feed them protein, and get them stronger.

[cgf]

He's an impressive athlete. The question marks have more to do with the lack of playmaking and how little he showed defensively...he wouldn't be the first scoring guard who just didn't need to show plus playmaking- or defensive-instincts at the college level, if he did bust them out at the next level, but since he didn't show them off much there's a bit of a gamble there.

I'm not too worried about the playmaking concerns, I think he flashed enough there to think that his shot-selection was more of a function of being so much more gifted than everyone else on the court so much of the time and so won't be an issue when he's sharing the court with more talented players. While his excellent physical tools should allow him to be a good defender if he ever commits to it, but how long it'll take for him to do that is an open question, and a big part of why I tend to lump him in the same group with Moody & Ziaire, even though he has much clearer star potential than Moody (whose not exactly a playmaker himself) and he is closer to realizing his star potential than Ziaire is to realizing his.

Playmaking is the key for his overall potential (as with Moody, Keon, etc.) but I think even if he's just a scorer he'll be an 18-20 PPG guy. That's part of why I like him over those guys--even if he doesn't develop a ton more I think he's a very useful NBA player. He's electric and already a three-level scorer and one of the best finishing guards I've seen in a while. Dude is creative and acrobatic and does impressive things in traffic. His playmaking reads are basic right now and he doesn't anticipate well but he seems to have a solid understanding of things.

I've mentioned this before but UConn's offense was a big detriment to this kid. They played at a slow pace, didn't have a real PG to help initiate offense, had no shooters to space the floor (they had one shooter who was wildly inconsistent), and mostly played two traditional bigs which clogged the floor. Everything wrong and ugly about college basketball's style of play negatively impacted Bouknight. When he was actually given space, he was electric and borderline unstoppable. As the season wore on, teams really sold out and adjusted their defensive schemes to contain Bouknight and space became harder to come by. Cade is really the only other prospect who dealt with this level of attention this season. Get Bouknight into the NBA where he's surrounded by talented pros and has ample spacing consistently and I think he's going to shine. He's the LaVine/Mitchell/etc guy of this draft IMO.

His creativity as a scorer makes me optimistic that he has the advanced understanding of the game to become a dangerous playmaker as well and I'm receptive to the argument that the pass/shoot calculus at UConn simply favored him creating for himself so much that it was usually "the right play"...cause if his playmaking doesn't materialize and he doesn't commit to becoming a good defender early on, I have a much harder time putting him ahead of Keon, Ziaire or Moody.

On top of the impact on his efficiency, being a credible threat to create for others is likely to be a key factor in how much he gets the ball in his hands at the next level. We can't take all that much from his catch-n-shoot #s given the limited sample size & his lack of experience in that role, but playing off-ball hasn't been his game...and though it's an adjustment that tons of youth level scorers have to make as they share the court with more talented players, it's one that not every scorer is able to make. So is a bad-ending where he gets stuck as a bench microwave for a while if he's not a star early on.

Moody probably won't ever be as creative a bucket-getter, but his lack of playmaking isn't as concerning to me because he doesn't need the ball in his hands as much to make a similar scoring impact. Plus he should be a lot more comfortable finishing RJ or Julius' dishes; so not only should he have an easier time getting put in a position to reach his potential, but it's easier to project him as a quality starter even if his development hits some road bumps.

Similar thing with Ziaire; even if he doesn't ever become a better-passing Paul George / Brandon Ingram, who can finish at the rim just as easily as light you up from deep, there's still a clear path for him to become a really good starter...as well as having a clear path to the PT/opportunities he'll need to reach that best-ending. Even without becoming a significant threat to attack the rim, he should be able to make a significant impact with his defense & stroke (both C&S or off the bounce)...especially for a team that's being led by two playmaking slashers already...while keeping the ball flowing when Julius or RJ aren't on the attack.

Keon is different, firstly because his shooting has a wider range of possible outcomes...if only due to how much further his shot has to go...and secondly because (like Bouknight) his offensive effectiveness is going to depend a lot on how that shooting comes along and how his playmaking evolves. That said, Keon is a different class of athlete, an elite defensive prospect, and (IMO) he flashed his playmaking abilities more despite having the ball in his hands a lot less...though that may have just been because Keon had the better supporting cast and wasn't as polished a scorer...so a) I'm more confident in Keon's playmaking potential; b) between his defense & cutting, he should have a clearer path to PT than Bouknight; and c) his ceiling is even higher.


FWIW I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate here. Before the season started I posted in one of these draft threads that Bouknight was my bet for this class's late-lotto star scoring guard, a la Booker / Mitchell, and I'm not any lower on him now than I was then; so I would be absolutely thrilled to add him. Just wanted to bounce my concerns with him off someone else who's high on him to figure out if I'm just looking for reasons to not be disappointed when we use that pick on someone I'm not very high on...again...

[NewKnicks]

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I really like the idea of Tre Mann for that Mavs pick. The only negative I can think of taking him there is his game is similar to Quickley’s.

His game reminds me of a Jamal Murray/Jordan Clarkson type player, obviously not as good but just like those guys I think if he gets hot it would be really hard to stop him. Plus all three are really good scoring off of screens.

I like Tre, but he definitely looks like a player that will need time to compete at the next level. Not a knock on him at all, but he needs to get a lot stronger. Which you could say about most young players in a draft. The skill is there, though.

I would love if the knicks took flyers on Ziaire, Mann, and then got some really good strength trainers. Knox and Obi need it severely as well. Just put them in the gym, feed them protein, and get them stronger.

I'm cool with that, but I would go a different direction and take a flyer on Barnes, and then snag Ayo with the second pick.

A lot of people rip Kispert on here, but I'd take him as well if he's available. Best shooter in all of college and we desperately need shooting. I think a player like him has one of the lowest floors, and he'd come in and make an impact right away.

There are so many different directions we could go this year. How nice is it to actually have draft picks/assets/cap space for once. I really hope they don't mess this opportunity up. We could easily add two starters in this draft, and use a lot of assets to add another really good/potential star. If we did that, we're moving way up in the East.

[DickGrayson]

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I know we don't like old rookies here (Duarte close to 24)

but Duarte's shooting and defense at his position is elite. He also can drive and isn't predictable, he changes his moves depending on what the defense gives him. He doesn't turn it over alot and he's a great help defender, almost averaging 2 steals and 1 block per game. He's basically Francisco Garcia (who was longer than Chris at 6"7/6"8) without the injuries.

If Duarte is available at 21, Knicks should grab him. This saves us in two ways.

Duarte, as an individual would provide Alec shooting and Frank defense by himself, plus more. We fill our 3 and D role because we really dont have one with Bullock and Burks who are good shooters but not clamp type defenders....and Frank who's elite at defense but provides no offense.

This also would give SPACE to RJ Barrett's driving and slashing.


I'm all for drafting Cam Thomas at 15 range btw. Hope we get him and Duarte. They would really look nice to Quickley and Barrett as a young core.

He looks like he can be a productive pro, but I'm passing bigtime due to age. It's really such a huge factor in the NBA right now. Imagine if he still takes 3-4 years to figure it out in the league? We're looking at a 27-28 year old player.

Huge pass just because of age. I'd rather go after Ayo or Sharife with that Mavs pick.

Don't take this as me ripping on his game, though. I just can't have an Obi part 2 on our squad.

I get you, I just feel like Duarte covers most of the weaknesses you expect a rookie to struggle with in the beginning of their career. I think Duarte is more instant impact than Toppin because of his in and out game, 3pt accuracy and ability to play PG. So unlike Toppin, Duarte has the ball in his hands. So figuring it out for Duarte won't take more than a month at most. He plays like a 10 year veteran in college, where as Toppin was just a lop man against weak comp. I saw Duarte as a more consistent player who asserts himself unlike Toppin or other older rookies who were bust. For example, Hill/Bennett...even if they were young or old, they all had a commonality where they never really asserted themselves into the offense, they were use to having a PG to do the work for them. So the learning curve isn't a huge one for someone like Duarte.

I like Ayo and Sharif, but we got Quickley atm who I believe are as good as these youngs, there isn't an issue stacking up offensive guards, especially around the 21st pick.

[bleedblue3303]

For those who have not seen much of Jalen Green..

I know we have no shot at getting him, but thought I'd post the videos. Future star.

Take into consideration that he's playing against professionals here. Those are men he's going against mostly, not kids in college.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I actually believe he has the potential to be the best player in this whole draft. Personally I would trade Randle to get him and have Green and RJ as our 2 wing players for the next 10 years

Sign me up for that! But the teams in the top 5 are not giving up their picks. Too much superstar potential with all five.

I'd love to any of the top 4. I don't care which one.

Cade
Suggs
Mobley
Green

All potential superstars. Kominga could be as well, but I'd prefer the top 4 over him. Green could easily end up as the best player in this draft. Agree 100%.

I keep wondering if Golden State which has Minessota pick ends up 4th would be willing.

Maybe something along the lines of Mitch and Randle

For Green and Wiseman and taking back wiggins contract. I think Green is going to be that special I would def consider it.

[WargamesX]

I actually believe he has the potential to be the best player in this whole draft. Personally I would trade Randle to get him and have Green and RJ as our 2 wing players for the next 10 years

Sign me up for that! But the teams in the top 5 are not giving up their picks. Too much superstar potential with all five.

I'd love to any of the top 4. I don't care which one.

Cade
Suggs
Mobley
Green

All potential superstars. Kominga could be as well, but I'd prefer the top 4 over him. Green could easily end up as the best player in this draft. Agree 100%.

I keep wondering if Golden State which has Minessota pick ends up 4th would be willing.

Maybe something along the lines of Mitch and Randle

For Green and Wiseman and taking back wiggins contract. I think Green is going to be that special I would def consider it.

Knicks say no........

[NewKnicks]

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I know we don't like old rookies here (Duarte close to 24)

but Duarte's shooting and defense at his position is elite. He also can drive and isn't predictable, he changes his moves depending on what the defense gives him. He doesn't turn it over alot and he's a great help defender, almost averaging 2 steals and 1 block per game. He's basically Francisco Garcia (who was longer than Chris at 6"7/6"8) without the injuries.

If Duarte is available at 21, Knicks should grab him. This saves us in two ways.

Duarte, as an individual would provide Alec shooting and Frank defense by himself, plus more. We fill our 3 and D role because we really dont have one with Bullock and Burks who are good shooters but not clamp type defenders....and Frank who's elite at defense but provides no offense.

This also would give SPACE to RJ Barrett's driving and slashing.


I'm all for drafting Cam Thomas at 15 range btw. Hope we get him and Duarte. They would really look nice to Quickley and Barrett as a young core.

He looks like he can be a productive pro, but I'm passing bigtime due to age. It's really such a huge factor in the NBA right now. Imagine if he still takes 3-4 years to figure it out in the league? We're looking at a 27-28 year old player.

Huge pass just because of age. I'd rather go after Ayo or Sharife with that Mavs pick.

Don't take this as me ripping on his game, though. I just can't have an Obi part 2 on our squad.

I get you, I just feel like Duarte covers most of the weaknesses you expect a rookie to struggle with in the beginning of their career. I think Duarte is more instant impact than Toppin because of his in and out game, 3pt accuracy and ability to play PG. So unlike Toppin, Duarte has the ball in his hands. So figuring it out for Duarte won't take more than a month at most. He plays like a 10 year veteran in college, where as Toppin was just a lop man against weak comp. I saw Duarte as a more consistent player who asserts himself unlike Toppin or other older rookies who were bust. For example, Hill/Bennett...even if they were young or old, they all had a commonality where they never really asserted themselves into the offense, they were use to having a PG to do the work for them. So the learning curve isn't a huge one for someone like Duarte.

I like Ayo and Sharif, but we got Quickley atm who I believe are as good as these youngs, there isn't an issue stacking up offensive guards, especially around the 21st pick.

I'm guessing you still think IQ can be a PG? I don't think he is. I think he's an off the ball shooter, 6th man type that can bring in instant offense.

We need a PG, and both Ayo and Sharife could possibly be had with our 2nd pick.

[jvsimonetti0514]

If we can walk away with Josh Giddey with either Bouknight, Mitchell, Mann, and Cam Thomas, I'd think this would be a very successful draft. It would fix our playmaking and scoring needs with one fell swoop. I'm not really sure if this is possible cuz it looks like Giddey and Mitchell will be late lottery guys and I just can't imagine Bouknight falling from there either but outside getting into the top 5 this would be the best we could do.

[WargamesX]

If we can walk away with Josh Giddey with either Bouknight, Mitchell, Mann, and Cam Thomas, I'd think this would be a very successful draft. It would fix our playmaking and scoring needs with one fell swoop. I'm not really sure if this is possible cuz it looks like Giddey and Mitchell will be late lottery guys and I just can't imagine Bouknight falling from there either but outside getting into the top 5 this would be the best we could do.

Mitchell really isn’t a Thibs type of guard. He likes them a little bigger and more likely to get FT’s. Keep in mind he like Obi too so that only counts so much but I don’t see us taking Davion.

[jvsimonetti0514]

If we can walk away with Josh Giddey with either Bouknight, Mitchell, Mann, and Cam Thomas, I'd think this would be a very successful draft. It would fix our playmaking and scoring needs with one fell swoop. I'm not really sure if this is possible cuz it looks like Giddey and Mitchell will be late lottery guys and I just can't imagine Bouknight falling from there either but outside getting into the top 5 this would be the best we could do.

Mitchell really isn’t a Thibs type of guard. He likes them a little bigger and more likely to get FT’s. Keep in mind he like Obi too so that only counts so much but I don’t see us taking Davion.

He ran Nate Robinson and Jeff Teague at point before. So I don't think he's inflexible when it comes to the size of his guards. Payton doesn't draw any fouls either and he's still our starter. Mitchell seems like a pretty good penetrator whenever I watched him. Even if he doesn't draw a ton of fouls it should be workable for Thibs.

[WargamesX]

If we can walk away with Josh Giddey with either Bouknight, Mitchell, Mann, and Cam Thomas, I'd think this would be a very successful draft. It would fix our playmaking and scoring needs with one fell swoop. I'm not really sure if this is possible cuz it looks like Giddey and Mitchell will be late lottery guys and I just can't imagine Bouknight falling from there either but outside getting into the top 5 this would be the best we could do.

Mitchell really isn’t a Thibs type of guard. He likes them a little bigger and more likely to get FT’s. Keep in mind he like Obi too so that only counts so much but I don’t see us taking Davion.

He ran Nate Robinson and Jeff Teague at point before. So I don't think he's inflexible when it comes to the size of his guards. Payton doesn't draw any fouls either and he's still our starter. Mitchell seems like a pretty good penetrator whenever I watched him. Even if he doesn't draw a ton of fouls it should be workable for Thibs.

Teague is 6’3 like every other guard Thibs prefer to works with, Nate was in Chicago for a year, and if Payton was Thibs preferred type of guard we wouldn’t have brought in Rose to take his minutes

[SmoothLefty21]

We can't take all that much from his catch-n-shoot #s given the limited sample size & his lack of experience in that role, but playing off-ball hasn't been his game...

I have to disagree here, having watched every game of his college career. He played almost entirely off-ball as a freshman and still played a ton of off-ball this year. They ran him off a ton of screens, backscreens for lobs, cuts, etc. They started using him more as a PnR ballhandler because they often couldn't get anything going on offense. Obviously he got plenty of isolations too.

I think this is where he'll be lethal at the next level: being off-ball and attacking closeouts. He's so quick and an explosive leaper. His pullup/hesi is very good, he can obviously finish in traffic. His 3PT% will be fine. He's an active cutter who finds lanes. I think if UConn was a better team he'd have spent even less time with the ball in his hands outside of some isolations each night.

[SmoothLefty21]

Bouknight kind of reminds me of how DRose is currently playing with all those twisting, contorting layups. Can he play above the rim, though?

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[knickstape4ever]

Bouknight kind of reminds me of how DRose is currently playing with all those twisting, contorting layups. Can he play above the rim, though?

Watch on YouTube

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at this point I just hope we can get Bouknight

would've given my left arm to get Jalen Green but that ain't happening unfortunately